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Jpup
03-11-2008, 07:46 AM
Is it just me or do the Reds have a real problem with the catching position? Valentin seems to really struggle to even move around behind the plate and really seemed to be out of sorts with Homer last night. It just didn't seem that Bailey or Volquez (for 1 inning) was comfortable with him.

Then you have Bako who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. He catches a decent game, but what about those throws? He about threw one into right field.

The Reds have to get another catcher. These guys make David Ross look good. BTW, how long is he going to be out?

Any ideas? I really don't see much out there that would be available. I know it's just one game and it might work out, but I'm very concerned.

bucksfan2
03-11-2008, 09:19 AM
The questoin you want to ask is do you want Valentine catching your younger guys? You would think Edison and Cueto would want to throw to Valentine because of his hispanic roots but he just doesn't look like he is on the same page as the pitcher. He isn't Harang's personal catcher and I am sure Bailey isn't going to want to throw to him anymore. What are you to do with a guy who pitchers don't want to throw to. His only asset is his bat off the bench but I would argue he is too much of swing for the fences type hitter.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 09:21 AM
It's the story of the spring that's been a non-story for some reason or another. I'm not saying that Ross is the key to this team's success but his backups certainly leave something to be desired.

M2
03-11-2008, 09:30 AM
It's not just you Jpup. The Reds need to find a catcher before the season starts.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm sure Chad Moeller's available.

BRM
03-11-2008, 09:57 AM
The Tigers are trying to trade Brandon Inge. He used to be a catcher. Is that close enough?

Joseph
03-11-2008, 09:57 AM
I'm sure Chad Moeller's available.

Didn't he play for the Yankees last night?

Chip R
03-11-2008, 09:59 AM
Didn't he play for the Yankees last night?


And your point is? ;)

lollipopcurve
03-11-2008, 10:02 AM
Is it just me or do the Reds have a real problem with the catching position?

It's a real problem. I expect a trade -- the sooner the better.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 10:06 AM
It's a real problem. I expect a trade -- the sooner the better.


Besides Chad Moeller, ;) who are some likely targets?

Will M
03-11-2008, 10:06 AM
Ross is a decent BACKUP catcher.

Javy is a pinch hitter & EMERGENCY catcher.

Options off the top of my head:

1. Ramon Hernadez. Os are in sell mode & have a rookie catcher who played in AAA last year.

2. Inge. Owed $18M over 3 years. Even if we were to ship them Stanton we would still ask the Tigers to pay some of that ugly contract

3. Ms have Johjima & a rookie catcher. My big trade idea all winter was Griffey for Johjima.

4. Pirates have two catchers better than Ross as do the Mets.
Freel for Schneider???

Danny Serafini
03-11-2008, 10:34 AM
Brandon Inge has been pretty vocal about not returning to catching. He's not the answer to the problem.

IslandRed
03-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Nope, not just you. Everywhere else on the diamond, we should be in good or at least decent shape. Not guaranteeing we'll be playing the right guys at all seven of those spots, but we have the guys who can play. Catcher's the place with the big blinking neon sign that says "UPGRADE HERE."

lollipopcurve
03-11-2008, 10:59 AM
Besides Chad Moeller, who are some likely targets?

My #1 target would be Teagarden from Texas, though he may not be quite MLB-ready. He's blocked by Saltalamacchia. Would settle for Gerald Laird, though. Krivsky and Daniels have shown they can consummate a deal, so I don't see why this wouldn't work -- Reds would send Freel plus a prospect or two, I imagine, for Laird. More if it's Teagarden.

WMR
03-11-2008, 10:59 AM
Our catching situation SUCKS. Javy would be best-suited to calling pitches at a beer league softball game.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 11:01 AM
Our catching situation SUCKS. Javy would be best-suited to calling pitches at a beer league softball game.


At least he can hit a little. But Bako couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

BRM
03-11-2008, 11:05 AM
Our catching situation SUCKS. Javy would be best-suited to calling pitches at a beer league softball game.

Javy would be an awesome softball player. And just think of all the women that would show up to watch just because of his presence.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 11:09 AM
Javy would be an awesome softball player. And just think of all the women that would show up to watch just because of his porn stache.


I fixed that for you. :thumbup:

flyer85
03-11-2008, 11:10 AM
Our catching situation SUCKS.that covers it

flyer85
03-11-2008, 11:12 AM
Javy would be an awesome softball player. And just think of all the women that would show up to watch just because of his presence.and to see his bulging muscle.

BRM
03-11-2008, 11:13 AM
and to see his bulging muscle.

His beer gut?

Team Clark
03-11-2008, 11:21 AM
Ramon Hernandez would be a good addition. I'll second that notion.

Other than that it's just piece meal work.

Blitz Dorsey
03-11-2008, 11:22 AM
I am more concerned about the Reds' catching situation than anything else. I don't think it will be quite as bad as some of you seem to think, but I am certainly worried about it. I am banking on Ross having a bounce back year, but for him that still means hovering around mediocrity at best. Valentin is what he is -- a backup MLB catcher who can also provide some help as a pinch hitter. He is awful defensively though. And this might sound crazy, but I like having Paul Bako on the roster. He is very solid defensively. But can't hit of course. Overall, C will be a weakness for us, but hopefully not too much of one.

Blitz Dorsey
03-11-2008, 11:25 AM
I fixed that for you. :thumbup:

:D

Kc61
03-11-2008, 11:43 AM
If Ross is healthy and hits decently, he's a reasonable starting catcher.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 11:47 AM
If Ross ... and hits decently, which he has little track record of doing outside a few hundred ABs in 2006.

M2
03-11-2008, 11:48 AM
If Ross ... hits decently

Then he'd be exhibiting un-Dave-Ross-like behavior. He's built to suffer against RHPs and he's no great shakes behind the plate (not bad, just nothing special). It's time the Reds found someone with more upside.

lollipopcurve
03-11-2008, 11:50 AM
If Ross is healthy and hits decently, he's a reasonable starting catcher.

1. He isn't healthy.

2. He has been horrible at the plate for the last season and a half.

Combine the two -- the tender back isn't going to help him any at the plate -- and you have a hole at the position.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 11:53 AM
This is an issue where the rubber really meets the road. WK has assembled a team that still needs a bit more to compete and the huge hole at the moment is catching. The question is does he have a big enough pair to go out and pay the price to get what he needs to really help the team ... or is he going to cross his fingers and hope for the best.

Falls City Beer
03-11-2008, 11:57 AM
Catcher and RF are gaping defensive abscesses. You see the dentist but can't afford to fix both; you fix the one that you need in order to eat: catcher.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 11:59 AM
you fix the one that you need in order to eat: catcher.had the entire off-season to address the issue ... instead they have 5 CFs in camp and no everyday catcher.

Far East
03-11-2008, 12:03 PM
They are obviously aware of the problem. George grand reports that David Ross is close to beiing placed on the DL. Dusty has been giving a lot of PT to several catchers in camp. When they are not behind the plate, they have been DH-ing.

Kroski (along with Castro, Hairston, and Patterson) even batted against Arroyo, Coffey, and Brower in a few simulated game innings last weekend in Sarasota.

BTW, Brower looks a young as many of the kids in camp, and Patterson (body looks like a high school Jr. Varsity player) had the best results against the pitching trio -- relaxed and comfortable at the plate.

Speaking of bodies, aside from Ross and Valentin, all other catchers' physiques are more slender/muscular -- not unlike what one sees in bodies of the most athletic/muscular college quarterbacks, linebackers, middle-weight wrestlers. Great arms on all of the AAA, AA, A catchers I saw, BTW.

No. Player P GP GS AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI AVG TB SLG

81 Chris Kroski C 3 1 3 1 1 1 0 0 1 .333 2 .667
9 Paul Bako C 9 6 12 4 4 0 1 0 1 .333 6 .500
71 Craig Tatum C 7 0 9 1 2 1 0 0 2 .222 3 .333
17 Javier Valentin C 8 7 15 3 4 1 0 0 2 .267 5 .333
65 Ryan Hanigan C 9 3 15 2 2 1 0 0 1 .133 3 .200
76 Alvin Colina C 7 0 11 0 1 0 0 0 0 .091 1 .091

For what it's worth, in BP, when Hanigan steps into the cage, he typically starts hitting line drives from the very first pitch, unlike many who don't get a good swing until the third or fourth pitch perhaps.

Chip R
03-11-2008, 12:04 PM
1. He isn't healthy.

2. He has been horrible at the plate for the last season and a half.

Combine the two -- the tender back isn't going to help him any at the plate -- and you have a hole at the position.


I think that sums it up perfectly. Back problems for a baseball player isn't good news. Back problems for a catcher is a catastrophe.

pedro
03-11-2008, 12:06 PM
The reds really need to improve their catcher situation.

Although that's sometimes even harder than improving pitching.

Sabo Fan
03-11-2008, 12:07 PM
Not sure how highly he's thought of, but the Pirates seemed pretty intent on platooning Ryan Doumit last season or moving him to the OF so maybe he'd come at a reasonable price. Didn't do anything otherworldly, but his .274/.341/.472 line in 250 AB's shows some ability. He's only 26 and is probably a pretty good bet to get a bit better. PECOTA likes him to repeat his 2007 performance. He'd be my target.

Raisor
03-11-2008, 12:08 PM
There can only be one answer to the catching question:

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/008/193/05b.jpg

flyer85
03-11-2008, 12:08 PM
Dusty has been giving a lot of PT to several catchers in camp. ... and not one of them is a solution to the problem.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 12:09 PM
There can only be one answer to the catching question:

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/008/193/05b.jpg

Villanova ... just call him Hec-tor.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 12:10 PM
The reds really need to improve their catcher situation.

Although that's sometimes even harder than improving pitching.in this case it would be easy ... because they are a boatload of guys who would be an improvement. A lot of them may not be very good but they would be an improvement.

BuckeyeRedleg
03-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Craig Tatum.

With the signing of Corey Patterson and the LH bats of either Votto or Hatteberg on the bench, there really is no reason to justify Javy Valentin occupying a roster spot, except for his 1.375M guaranteed salary.

He is not a good catcher.

M2
03-11-2008, 01:14 PM
Craig Tatum.

My guess is Tatum will be struggling down in AA this season. I've got no interest in watching him get eaten alive in the majors.

pedro
03-11-2008, 01:16 PM
in this case it would be easy ... because they are a boatload of guys who would be an improvement. A lot of them may not be very good but they would be an improvement.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm sure there are some, but "a boatload", I don't think so.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I'm sure there are some, but "a boatload", I don't think so.hyperbole

BuckeyeRedleg
03-11-2008, 01:35 PM
My guess is Tatum will be struggling down in AA this season. I've got no interest in watching him get eaten alive in the majors.

He did hit a wall after being promoted to Chattanooga last year, but he was coming off a decent 2006 and he lit it up for half a season in Sarasota. With that said, I'd still take him over Javy.

Highlifeman21
03-11-2008, 01:47 PM
had the entire off-season to address the issue ... instead they have 5 CFs in camp and no everyday catcher.

Freel said within the last few years if needed he'd put on the gear behind the plate.

Not that it would happen or even remotely work, but it's an amusing thought, to say the least.

remdog
03-11-2008, 01:49 PM
This was discussed three months ago and, basicly, the Reds did nothing about the situation. Now, if Ross goes on the DL, they will be even thiner than before.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64396&highlight=better+catching

Rem

fearofpopvol1
03-11-2008, 02:00 PM
The Reds do need help at the Catcher position, but I'm not sure it's as important as some seem to think. The Cubs got by almost all of last year with a lousy catching situation in the Central.

I think they need to keep Bako in the minors and I'd give Hanigan a shot. I like him better than the other options (including Javy).

As for long-term options, many have suggested in the past that the Reds target Taylor Teagarden. The question is, what would it take to get him?

lollipopcurve
03-11-2008, 02:05 PM
As for long-term options, many have suggested in the past that the Reds target Taylor Teagarden. The question is, what would it take to get him?

My guess is pitching. I'd try the Texan Belisle.

princeton
03-11-2008, 02:09 PM
no catchers, too many third basemen?

Adam Rosales: strap in

lollipopcurve
03-11-2008, 02:14 PM
no catchers, too many third basemen?

Adam Rosales: strap in

Interesting idea, but it would take years before he'd be major league ready, and he's too advanced with the bat. Trade market is where they should be looking.

princeton
03-11-2008, 02:17 PM
it would take years before he'd be major league ready.

I'm thinking days

"No matter where he's playing, Adam Rosales just knows where to be and what to do"

--Dusty Baker

RedsManRick
03-11-2008, 02:23 PM
No matter where he's playing, Adam Rosales just knows where to be and what to do

--Dusty Baker

I think he forgot "and how to win"... :devil::devil:

flyer85
03-11-2008, 02:35 PM
I think he forgot "and how to win"... :devil::devil:we haven't been hearing that nearly as much as the last few years. All in can say is that there would a bunch of guys who showed up in Cincy "knowing how to win" and must have promptly forgotten.

Far East
03-11-2008, 02:53 PM
No matter where he's playing, Adam Rosales just knows where to be and what to do

--Dusty Baker

Saw Doug Flynn demonstrating and having Adam practice the back-hand flip from 2B to SS on the DP (George Foster served as the SS target on the bag).

Doug was stressing quickness to Rosales (lanky enough that his 6'1" looks more like 6'3" -- especially at middle infield).

At the end, Doug said to Rosales something like: "That was so quick, I didn't even see it."

Chip R
03-11-2008, 02:55 PM
This was discussed three months ago and, basicly, the Reds did nothing about the situation. Now, if Ross goes on the DL, they will be even thiner than before.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64396&highlight=better+catching

Rem


And now they are paying the price.

princeton
03-11-2008, 02:56 PM
Saw Doug Flynn demonstrating and having Adam practice the back-hand flip from 2B to SS on the DP (George Foster served as the SS target on the bag).

Doug was stressing quickness to Rosales (lanky enough that his 6'1" looks more like 6'3" -- especially at middle infield).

At the end, Doug said something like: "That was so quick, I didn't even see it."

Rosales needs no teammates. He's like Bugs Bunny

BRM
03-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Rosales needs no teammates. He's like Bugs Bunny

Can he throw the powerful, paralyzing, perfect pachydermous percussion pitch?

M2
03-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Rosales needs no teammates. He's like Bugs Bunny

Pitcher, Adam Rosales. Catcher, Adam Rosales. First base, Adam Rosales. Second base, Adam Rosales ...

flyer85
03-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Pitcher, Adam Rosales. Catcher, Adam Rosales. First base, Adam Rosales. Second base, Adam Rosales ...need to line up the Gashouse Gorillas

*BaseClogger*
03-11-2008, 03:17 PM
IF, and it's a big if, Dave Ross is healthy, I don't see any of the solutions being tossed around in this thread representing an overall upgrade...

princeton
03-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Pitcher, Adam Rosales. Catcher, Adam Rosales. First base, Adam Rosales. Second base, Adam Rosales ...


exactly. I mean, Dusty was raving about him being in the cutoff position, right? And why was he raving about a simple cutoff play? It's because on the same play Rosales has also played the RF carom correctly, fired a bullet to himself, then one hopped the throw to third where he made a brilliant tag.

bad call on play by ump. I suppose that it was hard to see through that cloud of dust, plus he might have been distracted by the bolt of lighting.

RedsManRick
03-11-2008, 03:27 PM
IF, and it's a big if, Dave Ross is healthy, I don't see any of the solutions being tossed around in this thread representing an overall upgrade...

I concur. If there were some options that represent clear, significant improvements, I'd be on board. But presuming Ross is healthy, he's as good as we're going to get short term and relative to the catcher position around baseball, isn't nearly as bad as we think.

remdog
03-11-2008, 03:32 PM
....isn't nearly as bad as we think.

Some think that he's worse than we think. Not quite a Yogi-ism but close.....:)

Rem

M2
03-11-2008, 03:39 PM
I concur. If there were some options that represent clear, significant improvements, I'd be on board. But presuming Ross is healthy, he's as good as we're going to get short term and relative to the catcher position around baseball, isn't nearly as bad as we think.

I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.

*BaseClogger*
03-11-2008, 03:46 PM
I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.

His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...

Falls City Beer
03-11-2008, 04:03 PM
His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...

Not to get into the Dave Ross argument too deeply, but the arguments from those who don't care for Ross's defense extend well beyond "handling the pitching staff."

Seriously, Ross is the definition of fungible. And now he's hurt. Why not try to find someone with at least one real strength instead of total mediocrity? I'd recommend using the route that Krivsky used to snag Ross in the first place--comb the minors/majors for guys blocked out of a starting gig.

flyer85
03-11-2008, 04:04 PM
Seriously, Ross is the definition of fungible. And now he's hurt. and any player with a back problem is serious ... but especially a catcher.

M2
03-11-2008, 04:41 PM
His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...

I put more emphasis on throwing too. Heck, I kind of pioneered that thinking round these here parts.

Yet when all you've got is throwing it leaves me wanting. I'll be surprised if Ross can get all that close to his career average OB vs. RHPs and I question whether he'll be any better than that vs. LHPs.

What I see is an out machine with a horrific plate approach and now he's 31 with health issues to boot. That's a recipe for a disaster, like a .250 OB disaster, an Irwin Allen type disaster, a disaster of Castrovian proportions.

Anyway, my take is a catcher with a .300+ OB needs to be found, preferably this catcher will also be able to throw, and maybe he can add some receiving skills to boot.

I know you mentioned in a game thread that Laird doesn't thrill you, but he's only 28 and I think he's got a plate approach that will net better results in the coming years (catchers frequently turn out to be late bloomers -- and then they fade early too, basically catchers are a pain in the butt is what I'm saying).

Jeff Mathis is a kid I'd love to have. He turns 25 later this month and he's just about at the place where he might do a little something at the plate to go with his defensive skills. Mind you, I don't know what the Angels might need at the moment or whether Mathis could be had by the team who could fill that need.

I don't think there's any sexy options out there, but I do think the Reds need to find a catcher on his way up rather than stay anchored to Ross, who looks to be going down quickly.

Patrick Bateman
03-11-2008, 05:18 PM
M2, I think your description basically describes the pre-2006 Jason LaRue. I'll tell you, as much crap as he got around here, he sure solidified that spot for a decent chunk of time (5 years). He sure wasn't a guy that knocked your socks off with each individual skill, but I'd love to find a guy like that to bring into the fold.

*BaseClogger*
03-11-2008, 06:45 PM
I put more emphasis on throwing too. Heck, I kind of pioneered that thinking round these here parts.

Yet when all you've got is throwing it leaves me wanting. I'll be surprised if Ross can get all that close to his career average OB vs. RHPs and I question whether he'll be any better than that vs. LHPs.

I don't expect 2006 Dave Ross to return, but with a bump in batting average thanks to some better luck, I can see his OBP back around .300 in 2008 (if he can get healthy, which I will admit has me very concerned)...


What I see is an out machine with a horrific plate approach and now he's 31 with health issues to boot. That's a recipe for a disaster, like a .250 OB disaster, an Irwin Allen type disaster, a disaster of Castrovian proportions.

Anyway, my take is a catcher with a .300+ OB needs to be found, preferably this catcher will also be able to throw, and maybe he can add some receiving skills to boot.

I know you mentioned in a game thread that Laird doesn't thrill you, but he's only 28 and I think he's got a plate approach that will net better results in the coming years (catchers frequently turn out to be late bloomers -- and then they fade early too, basically catchers are a pain in the butt is what I'm saying).

I can also forsee a quick decline in store for Ross, but I'm curious what it is about Laird's approach that has you so excited. Have you looked at his stats from last year? He was worse than Ross! As to a better approach than Ross, lets compare there 2007 results. In 311 AB's, Ross walked 30 times and struck out 92 times. Laird, on the other hand, had 407 AB's, walking 30 times and striking out 103 times. Laird is basically a two years younger and healthier version of Ross... but at what cost? I believe many teams have called the Rangers and they have been asking a high price. Is he some sort of defensive whiz I don't know about?

BTW this from MLBTR:


Laird Likely To Stay Put
According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers don't plan on trading catcher Gerald Laird despite some interested parties. In fact, Laird could catch 100+ games this year despite last year's Jarrod Saltalamacchia acquisition. Salty could take a smaller role with the big club or get some Triple A seasoning. It's easy to forget that he skipped that level.

The Rangers prefer Laird's strong defense and spotty offense to Salty's subpar defense and offensive potential. And it's not fair to write Laird off offensively quite yet; he hit well in a half-season in '06. '07 was his first year catching full-time.

The Rangers have a third future MLB-quality backstop in Taylor Teagarden. They've also got Cristian Santana and Max Ramirez in the organization, two guys who are less certain to become starting catchers in the bigs. Interesting prospects nonetheless. Jon Daniels has an uncommon surplus on his hands.


Jeff Mathis is a kid I'd love to have. He turns 25 later this month and he's just about at the place where he might do a little something at the plate to go with his defensive skills. Mind you, I don't know what the Angels might need at the moment or whether Mathis could be had by the team who could fill that need.

I don't think there's any sexy options out there, but I do think the Reds need to find a catcher on his way up rather than stay anchored to Ross, who looks to be going down quickly.

I like Mathis :thumbup: But as usual, what is the price? It all depends on the price.

I'd like to see Krivsky do his thing and find the next David Ross...

RedsManRick
03-11-2008, 07:10 PM
I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.

Depends on how many catchers you want to carry...

M2
03-11-2008, 07:52 PM
I don't expect 2006 Dave Ross to return, but with a bump in batting average thanks to some better luck, I can see his OBP back around .300 in 2008 (if he can get healthy, which I will admit has me very concerned)...

I'm thinking his physical decline and generally awfully swing will overcome any luck bump that might have been coming his way.


I can also forsee a quick decline in store for Ross, but I'm curious what it is about Laird's approach that has you so excited. Have you looked at his stats from last year? He was worse than Ross! As to a better approach than Ross, lets compare there 2007 results. In 311 AB's, Ross walked 30 times and struck out 92 times. Laird, on the other hand, had 407 AB's, walking 30 times and striking out 103 times. Laird is basically a two years younger and healthier version of Ross... but at what cost? I believe many teams have called the Rangers and they have been asking a high price. Is he some sort of defensive whiz I don't know about?

Laird's got an organized swing, good balance. I know his numbers were in the toilet last year, but he's got mechanics which could lead to a .270ish BA. He was .271/.344/.406 in the minors and, given his size, more power might be in the offing now that he's in his late 20s.

As for price, I couldn't tell you what the Rangers want, but they've made a habit of giving talented people away. Take advantage of Jon Daniels before he's gone I say.


I like Mathis :thumbup: But as usual, what is the price? It all depends on the price.

I'd like to see Krivsky do his thing and find the next David Ross...

The Angels hold onto guys forever. Usually I think it's to their detriment, but in Mathis' case their stubborn approach might prove lucky.

As for the next[i] Dave Ross, the thing about finding that is as soon as you've got it, you need to find the [i]next next Dave Ross. He was was a one-hit, part-time wonder. A bad 2008 from him will turn his tenure with the Reds into a net loss, making 2006 into little more than an aberration.

I'd like to see the team find a more stable solution.

OnBaseMachine
03-11-2008, 07:56 PM
Jeff Mathis would be a fine acquisition, as would someone like Kelly Shoppach, though I'm not sure how good defensively he is.

WMR
03-11-2008, 08:11 PM
Taylor Teagarden sounds like a good target. What is he, 3rd on the depth chart?

remdog
03-11-2008, 11:22 PM
Well, first of all, one of the best ways to improve your team is to improve your weakest position. Of the starting eight (we'll set pitching aside for the moment) catcher would seem to me to fit that billing.

Secondly, if you're going to shake the Angels tree, let's go all out and go for Mike Napoli. A 'quasi' starter in the past and, at age 27, should be ready to take on about 110-120 starts. Decent defensively and an OK bat. His lifetime stats indicate that you're likely to get about.235/.350/.450. Not the numbers to make anyone forget Johnny Bench but I like him a whole lot better than David Ross.

The Angels 'won' a trade with the Reds before (Ramon Ortiz/Dustin Moseley), maybe they think they will again. Give it a shot. I look at the Angels roster and they look solid but sometimes a team in that position will take a role player and a prospect if they think that their backup (Mathis) can step in and do an adequate job.

Rem

wheels
03-12-2008, 12:15 AM
Well, first of all, one of the best ways to improve your team is to improve your weakest position. Of the starting eight (we'll set pitching aside for the moment) catcher would seem to me to fit that billing.

Secondly, if you're going to shake the Angels tree, let's go all out and go for Mike Napoli. A 'quasi' starter in the past and, at age 27, should be ready to take on about 110-120 starts. Decent defensively and an OK bat. His lifetime stats indicate that you're likely to get about.235/.350/.450. Not the numbers to make anyone forget Johnny Bench but I like him a whole lot better than David Ross.

The Angels 'won' a trade with the Reds before (Ramon Ortiz/Dustin Moseley), maybe they think they will again. Give it a shot. I look at the Angels roster and they look solid but sometimes a team in that position will take a role player and a prospect if they think that their backup (Mathis) can step in and do an adequate job.

Rem


Best idea yet.

Start with Mathis, maybe end up with Napoli.

*BaseClogger*
03-12-2008, 12:28 AM
Best idea yet.

Start with Mathis, maybe end up with Napoli.

Agreed. Hopefully the Angels will be willing to part with one of the two. Targeting Napoli might even make it easier to get Mathis from them...

fearofpopvol1
03-12-2008, 01:20 AM
You guys are talking about this like the Reds are actually about to make a play for these catchers. Call me crazy, but I don't see it.

wheels
03-12-2008, 09:06 AM
You guys are talking about this like the Reds are actually about to make a play for these catchers. Call me crazy, but I don't see it.

So what?

Should we not discuss it?

remdog
03-12-2008, 09:26 AM
You guys are talking about this like the Reds are actually about to make a play for these catchers. Call me crazy, but I don't see it.

Oh I agree completely. I don't see it either. The Reds had all winter to do something to improve their catching and I don't think it even crossed Wayne's mind.

But heh, we can dream so the heck with Napoli. Let's get Russell Martin! :lol:

Rem

BRM
03-12-2008, 09:32 AM
Oh I agree completely. I don't see it either. The Reds had all winter to do something to improve their catching and I don't think it even crossed Wayne's mind.


Sure he did. He brought in Paul Bako. ;)

Chip R
03-12-2008, 09:46 AM
You guys are talking about this like the Reds are actually about to make a play for these catchers. Call me crazy, but I don't see it.


I agree. But there's no harm in dreaming. Ross hasn't even gone on the DL yet and Javy's already signed to a contract to be a catcher cum pinch hitter. Then there's Bako so to bring another catcher in would mean either going with three catchers or trading or releasing Ross or Javy and I don't think that's going to happen. Rem's right. This should have been addressed in the off season but Wayne tends to get a little attached to guys he trades for (see Majewski, Castro, Stanton and Ross).

BRM
03-12-2008, 09:46 AM
Saw this little tidbit on MLBTradeRumors.



According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers don't plan on trading catcher Gerald Laird despite some interested parties. In fact, Laird could catch 100+ games this year despite last year's Jarrod Saltalamacchia acquisition. Salty could take a smaller role with the big club or get some Triple A seasoning. It's easy to forget that he skipped that level.

The Rangers prefer Laird's strong defense and spotty offense to Salty's subpar defense and offensive potential. And it's not fair to write Laird off offensively quite yet; he hit well in a half-season in '06. '07 was his first year catching full-time.

The Rangers have a third future MLB-quality backstop in Taylor Teagarden. They've also got Cristian Santana and Max Ramirez in the organization, two guys who are less certain to become starting catchers in the bigs. Interesting prospects nonetheless. Jon Daniels has an uncommon surplus on his hands.


Here is a blurb from Sullivan's article on MLB.com (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080311&content_id=2419223&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex&partnered=rss_tex).




Laird has not been given anything yet, but it's been understood that the job is his to lose and he has done nothing to do that. Instead all indications are pointing toward him being behind the plate on March 31 against the Seattle Mariners.

The bigger intrigue surrounding the Rangers catching situation appears to be what to do with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the 22-year-old switch-hitter who is not likely to unseat Laird.

Two schools of thought get batted back and forth, and one is having Saltalamacchia in the same lineup against Mariners left-hander Erik Bedard. Club officials suggest it's a "reasonable" possibility.

The Rangers are mulling the idea of having both on the team because it's still unclear who is going to be their right-handed designated hitter. This scenario has Laird catching four or five times a week and Saltalamacchia catching the remainder. Saltalamacchia would also be the designated hitter on days the Rangers sit Frank Catalanotto when there's a left-hander on the mound.

remdog
03-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Weren't there rumors last season about the Reds inquireing about Saltalamacchia last year before the Braves traded him? Or was that someone's idea here at Redszone?

Rem

Chip R
03-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Weren't there rumors last season about the Reds inquireing about Saltalamacchia last year before the Braves traded him? Or was that someone's idea here at Redszone?

Rem

Probably the latter.

Jpup
03-27-2008, 02:17 PM
Just wanted to throw out there that Jared Saltalamacchia was sent down yesteday to AAA. The Rangers are going with Gerald Laird as there starting catcher. I am assuming that Adam Melhuse will be the backup. Ben Broussard will be their primary 1st basemen and Jason Botts will also play their. Kevin Mench has played some 1st this spring as well.

It's time for the Reds to talk to Jon Daniels about one of their catchers. The have Laird, Salty, Taylor Teagarden, & Max Ramirez. Someone needs to go.

Jpup
03-31-2008, 08:21 PM
The Reds still need a catcher. How's the hunt going? I think the Reds apparently have given and gone with Javy as their primary catcher. I don't see how Harang puts up with it.:confused:

Patrick Bateman
03-31-2008, 08:34 PM
I think Ross is due back fairly soon... he was close enough that they considered putting him on the opening day roster. With crappy alternatives it appears as if they'll just wait for Ross rather than reach for a crappy short term alternative. Unfortunately, nobody has catchers to spare.

*BaseClogger*
03-31-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't remember Ross's time on the DL being retroactive... :confused:

Jpup
04-01-2008, 04:12 AM
I think Ross is due back fairly soon... he was close enough that they considered putting him on the opening day roster. With crappy alternatives it appears as if they'll just wait for Ross rather than reach for a crappy short term alternative. Unfortunately, nobody has catchers to spare.

Texas has several. There are also a lot of young guys out there that could possibly be dealt for, but the Reds would have to give something up. Ramon Hernandez in Baltimore is another option that I'm sure Baltimore would part with. His contract would probably be too much for the Reds to handle.

Patrick Bateman
04-01-2008, 01:31 PM
Texas' extra catchers are very good prospects.... that would take a lot to acquire. Not sure the cost, it would certainly be worth exploring, but I doubt it comes at a discout price.

Anyways, my point was that I think the Reds are satisfied with Ross, and being that he should be back fairly soon, I don't see them taking on a big contract like Hernandez, or overpaying for a legit prospect type just to fill what they see as a 10-15 day void.

lollipopcurve
04-01-2008, 01:57 PM
Texas' extra catchers are very good prospects.... that would take a lot to acquire. Not sure the cost, it would certainly be worth exploring, but I doubt it comes at a discout price.

No, the price would be steep. However, the Reds definitely have what Texas needs -- young MLB-ready starters. In particular, Bailey and Belisle, both of whom happen to be native Texans. It's really a perfect matchup, both teams trading from surplus to meet need. The teams will have their own reads on these players, and they may have very different grades on them than we'd suspect, but it certainly appears from the outside like the basis for a deal would be staring these 2 GMs in the face. I find it especially intriguing that both Bailey and Salty followed the same path in ST -- with the major league club almost the entire time, then demoted to AAA....