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View Full Version : Refreshed: 2 guys I'd still be targeting



Benihana
03-12-2008, 10:50 AM
Recycling an older offseason rumor just because they have been raised once again halfway through spring training, I'd really like to see the Reds acquire two players currently being shopped around: Chris Capuano from Milwaukee and Taylor Teagarden from Texas.

Here are two articles written this week about the players' availability:

Teagarden:

According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers don't plan on trading catcher Gerald Laird despite some interested parties. In fact, Laird could catch 100+ games this year despite last year's Jarrod Saltalamacchia acquisition. Salty could take a smaller role with the big club or get some Triple A seasoning. It's easy to forget that he skipped that level.

The Rangers prefer Laird's strong defense and spotty offense to Salty's subpar defense and offensive potential. And it's not fair to write Laird off offensively quite yet; he hit well in a half-season in '06. '07 was his first year catching full-time.

The Rangers have a third future MLB-quality backstop in Taylor Teagarden. They've also got Cristian Santana and Max Ramirez in the organization, two guys who are less certain to become starting catchers in the bigs. Interesting prospects nonetheless. Jon Daniels has an uncommon surplus on his hands.

Capuano:

Capuano to the Red Sox?

Could Chris Capuano be traded to the Red Sox? Eli at MLB Rumors thinks so.


I'd be surprised if the Brewers don't make some sort of deal involving pitching before Opening Day and Capuano might need a change of scenery. Plus, he probably still has more value than Bush or Vargas despite major struggles after May last season and a poor spring training so far.


The Sox have been rumored to be looking for a pitcher, but the buzz is that they are shopping Coco Crisp. Crisp, a center fielder, does not fit with the Brewers.


What do you think Brewer fans, would a couple of prospects be enough for Cappy? Here are the Red Sox top prospects, according to SoxProspects.com.

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Now, what would it take to get these two? Presumably not much, considering their current teams' surplusses at their two positions. The Rangers have an ailing rotation according to this article, which actually suggests them pursuing Capuano:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/031208dnsporanglede.46882fb7.html

The Brew Crew on the other hand, is pretty set at all of its positions and rotation, so they presumably would be looking for bullpen help and/or prospects. So here's what I would suggest:

Offer Josh Fogg and Gary Majewski to Texas for Teagarden, who is stuck at third in the organizational depth chart. With Gerald Laird penciled in to start 100+ games this year behind the plate, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia clearly their catcher of the future, Teagarden's future is bleak in Dallas. As the above article suggested, Texas is desperate for some healthy big league arms, particularly after jettisoning Volquez and the injuries to McCarthy, Padilla, and Millwood. Fogg and Majewski would provide them with a "cortisone shot" of healthy arms, at least until their normal pitchers are healthy. Krivsky and Daniels have already struck one deal together (that so far looks good for both sides,) could they make magic together one more time before the season begins? If so, Teagarden would give the Reds a promising catcher for the next six years, at least until Mesoraco is ready... :p:

Then, I would offer Todd Coffey (and/or Mike Stanton) as well as Juan Francisco for Chris Capuano. Capuano is to the Brewers what Ryan Freel is to the Reds at this point: a superflous player that could benefit from a change in scenery. Coffey could possibly benefit from the change of scenery as well, and in a lot of people's minds, Francisco's value might never be higher than it is now. However Brewers GM Doug Melvin salivates over Francisco-type players: light-tower power guys with no clear defensive position. Just look at recent acquistions Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun, and Matt LaPorta. And don't forget Geoff Jenkins, Jeromy Burnitz, and Matt Stairs. I would then start Capuano as the #5 in the rotation behind Harang, Arroyo, Belisle and Cueto, while beginning the season with Volquez in the 'pen. If Volquez performs and Capuano flops, I would switch them up by Memorial Day. In the meantime, Capuano provides the rotation with a veteran lefty while Volquez gains seasoning and builds confidence in the 'pen. I personally believe Capuano could bounce back and return to 2006 form, but at worst he is a better alternative to Josh Fogg.

Majewski, Coffey, and/or Stanton are all excess parts of a bullpen that is much improved without them. Personally, I would like to see them go north with a pen of Affeldt, Bray, Volquez, Burton, Weathers, and Cordero. If Bray starts on the DL, then let Coutlangous take his place.

Thoughts?

klw
03-12-2008, 10:55 AM
With the Reds signing Fogg as a free agent is there a time limitation on his being traded or is that only if there is a multiyear contract? or does that not exist anymore?

PuffyPig
03-12-2008, 11:02 AM
With the Reds signing Fogg as a free agent is there a time limitation on his being traded or is that only if there is a multiyear contract? or does that not exist anymore?


I thought he couldn't get traded until the middle of May or something.

I doubt that the Brewers will trade a starting pitcher within the division unless the return meets their immediate needs to a T. And minor league players wouldn't do that.

I do like your thoughts on both of these acquistions.

Chip R
03-12-2008, 11:12 AM
I thought he couldn't get traded until the middle of May or something.



You may be right about that. They were talking about when Pudge Rodriguez signed with DET he was going to be traded back to FLA but it couldn't happen till May or so.

Joseph
03-12-2008, 11:14 AM
June 15th, unless the rule is different, or its a minor league contract for Fogg.

I do like both targets though, particularly the young catcher, we need one.

vic715
03-12-2008, 11:15 AM
I would go after Teagarden in a heartbeat but I don't think Fogg and Maj will get it done.

flyer85
03-12-2008, 11:27 AM
I would go after Teagarden in a heartbeat but I don't think Fogg and Maj will get it done.Fogg and Maj wouldn't bring a bag of used baseballs.

Team Clark
03-12-2008, 11:51 AM
I would go after Teagarden in a heartbeat but I don't think Fogg and Maj will get it done.

That would be like trading a half torn One dollar bill and a half torn Five dollar bill for a nice new Twenty. :D

Benihana
03-12-2008, 11:56 AM
So what do you think it would take to get Teagarden? Keeping in mind they desperately need pitching and he's trapped behind Laird and Salty on the depth chart.

Maybe Bill Bray, Majewski, and a mid-level prospect like Carlos Fisher could get it done? With the additions of Affeldt, Fogg, and perhaps Capuano, Bray could be expendable if only he was healthy (and I like Bill Bray.) At the very least, that might somewhat help rectify The Trade.

*BaseClogger*
03-12-2008, 06:04 PM
So what do you think it would take to get Teagarden? Keeping in mind they desperately need pitching and he's trapped behind Laird and Salty on the depth chart.

Maybe Bill Bray, Majewski, and a mid-level prospect like Carlos Fisher could get it done? With the additions of Affeldt, Fogg, and perhaps Capuano, Bray could be expendable if only he was healthy (and I like Bill Bray.) At the very least, that might somewhat help rectify The Trade.

I would be surprised if Stubbs was not part of a trade to the Rangers. They are stocked at pitcher aren't they?





(Doug, are you out there... somewhere? :D)

fearofpopvol1
03-12-2008, 07:15 PM
I would be surprised if Stubbs was not part of a trade to the Rangers. They are stocked at pitcher aren't they?





(Doug, are you out there... somewhere? :D)

Definitely not stocked in the higher minors. If you want to go down to 1A, then they have a lot of arms with potential, but that's a big risk.

To the original poster, I don't think the proposals will work. They're too 1-sided and I think at this point, unless the Reds can move Fogg, Capuano doesn't make a lot of sense. I wonder if the Reds/Brew Crew would be willing to swap Capuano for Belisle straight up? That'd be an interesting trade idea.

camisadelgolf
03-12-2008, 07:21 PM
I don't read too many message boards of teams other than the Reds, but I'd imagine that Teagarden is a target of pretty much every club and wouldn't be had cheaply at all. As for Chris Capuano, his stock might be at its lowest right now, and I don't see him being traded in the immediate future.

MartyFan
03-12-2008, 07:55 PM
Benihana
Offer Josh Fogg and Gary Majewski to Texas for Teagarden, who is stuck at third in the organizational depth chart. With Gerald Laird penciled in to start 100+ games this year behind the plate, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia clearly their catcher of the future, Teagarden's future is bleak in Dallas. As the above article suggested, Texas is desperate for some healthy big league arms, particularly after jettisoning Volquez and the injuries to McCarthy, Padilla, and Millwood. Fogg and Majewski would provide them with a "cortisone shot" of healthy arms, at least until their normal pitchers are healthy. Krivsky and Daniels have already struck one deal together (that so far looks good for both sides,) could they make magic together one more time before the season begins? If so, Teagarden would give the Reds a promising catcher for the next six years, at least until Mesoraco is ready...

Didn't the Rangers deal with the Reds for Hamilton from a strength they have organizationally in their pitching?

Why would they want Fogg and Maj?

Benihana
03-12-2008, 08:46 PM
The Rangers are extremely pitching-thin at the major league level. Their three best arms, Millwood, Padilla, and McCarthy are all battling injuries this spring. Volquez is gone. That leaves them with Kason Gabbard and a bunch of question marks. We may have to pony up more for Teagarden. I'm guessing they would want Belisle.

As far as Capuano goes, all indications are he will be switching teams in the next month. It is a classic buy-low opportunity. I agree that without moving one of the current veterans, Capuano may be hard to justify, but I would take the chance. Belisle is a little steep, but any one (or two) of our veteran bullpen arms could go in my book. Throw in any mid-level prospect, and I'm sure you could get Capuano.

cincrazy
03-12-2008, 09:26 PM
I'm not sure how many people have been following Capuano this spring, but he's been beyond dreadful. It's easy to say "it's just spring training," but seeing how bad he was last year, I think it's pretty important that he get off to a sound start.

Benihana
03-13-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm not sure how many people have been following Capuano this spring, but he's been beyond dreadful. It's easy to say "it's just spring training," but seeing how bad he was last year, I think it's pretty important that he get off to a sound start.

Yep, and I'd buy low, very low.

wheels
03-13-2008, 02:58 PM
I'd do Stubbs for Capuano.

You're not giving up much, so if Cappy tanks it's really no big loss.

As much as I like Belisle, I'd probably part with him in a deal for Teagarden. I don't remember the Reds ever having a catching situation this bleak.

REDREAD
03-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Hate to say this, but you've got to think that the Rangers would be asking for one of the big 4 for Teagarden.

Even if he's the third on their depth chart, why trade a legitimate prospect for junk?

Benihana
03-14-2008, 11:25 AM
Hate to say this, but you've got to think that the Rangers would be asking for one of the big 4 for Teagarden.

Even if he's the third on their depth chart, why trade a legitimate prospect for junk?

I don't know, the Mets traded Kazmir for Victor Zambrano ;)

LoganBuck
03-14-2008, 02:09 PM
I'd do Stubbs for Capuano.

You're not giving up much, so if Cappy tanks it's really no big loss.

As much as I like Belisle, I'd probably part with him in a deal for Teagarden. I don't remember the Reds ever having a catching situation this bleak.

I don't think Capuano nets a Top 100 BA prospect. He is racing toward dumpster diving.

I would do a Belisle / Teagarden deal. But it would take a sweetener. Maybe a minor league bullpener. The Rangers are desperate for pitching, I don't understand why they weren't hotter on Lohse.

OnBaseMachine
03-14-2008, 02:15 PM
I don't think Capuano nets a Top 100 BA prospect. He is racing toward dumpster diving.

I would do a Belisle / Teagarden deal. The Rangers are desperate for pitching, I don't understand why they weren't hotter on Lohse.

Belisle for Teagarden? That's a deal I could see Texas doing. As you stated, Texas desperately needs pitching and Belisle would give them a solid arm with room to grow into a No. 3 starter IMO. Teagarden is third on the depth chart so it's not like they can't afford to deal him. Sign me up for this deal.

Jeff Mathis is another guy I like behind the plate, but I wouldn't deal Belisle for him.

flyer85
03-14-2008, 02:19 PM
Belisle for Teagarden? That's a deal I could see Texas doing. actually I could see the Texas GM doubled over laughing.

LoganBuck
03-14-2008, 02:22 PM
actually I could see the Texas GM doubled over laughing.

And they are going to get 190+ innings pitched where else?

flyer85
03-14-2008, 02:32 PM
And they are going to get 190+ innings pitched where else?not really the issue.

OnBaseMachine
03-14-2008, 02:35 PM
actually I could see the Texas GM doubled over laughing.

I highly doubt that. This is the same GM deal that dealt Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez to San Diego for Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka. He also got ended up on the losing side of the Soriano trade and also traded away the better talent in the McCarthy/Danks trade IMO. It looks like it's not hard to please Jon Daniels in a trade.

flyer85
03-14-2008, 02:45 PM
I highly doubt that. This is the same GM deal that dealt Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez to San Diego for Adam Eaton and Akinori Otsuka. He also got ended up on the losing side of the Soriano trade and also traded away the better talent in the McCarthy/Danks trade IMO. It looks like it's not hard to please Jon Daniels in a trade.which probably makes him gun shy. Belisle at his best is a back of the rotation guy with little upside.

Benihana
03-14-2008, 02:49 PM
which probably makes him gun shy. Belisle at his best is a back of the rotation guy with little upside.

Nope, he's not gun shy at all. The Hamilton/Volquez trade took a big set of cajones on both sides. Catcher is the only position which has a higher failure rate for prospects than pitcher, and don't think every GM knows that. I would float a Belisle-Teagarden deal because it's not nearly as one-sided as you may think.

Benihana
03-14-2008, 02:51 PM
I don't think Capuano nets a Top 100 BA prospect. He is racing toward dumpster diving.


I agree, I think he could be had for less than that. If the Reds could move Belisle for Teagarden, getting Capuano looks all the better. I would guess Fisher and Francisco could probably get it done, but I'd throw in Stanton or Coffey just to be sure.

flyer85
03-14-2008, 02:56 PM
The Hamilton/Volquez trade took a big set of cajones on both sides. that trade was high risk/high reward from both perspectives.

Belisle is decidedly low reward and Teagarden is a very good prospect at this point. This seems like a high risk/low reward deal from a Texas perspective which is exactly the kind of deal yo stay away from.

fearofpopvol1
03-14-2008, 02:59 PM
Keep in mind that Tegarden is sort of blocked at this point by Salty. And while depth is good, I would imagine that Teagarden sitting behind Salty doesn't help the Rangers much, so I think they would move him. I actually think Belisle for Teagarden would be a pretty fair trade and not laughable at all. Belisle is a major league pitcher about to hit his prime years. Even if he is BOR, at his price and with his experience in the majors, I think that makes the trade pretty good. The Reds may be forced to throw in a lower-level prospect with it as well, but I think that's a deal that might make sense.

flyer85
03-14-2008, 03:07 PM
Keep in mind that Tegarden is sort of blocked at this point by Salty. supposedly Laird is the likely starter. Salty has never been known for his defense I would not be surprised to see him end up as 1b/DH.

Benihana
03-14-2008, 03:14 PM
that trade was high risk/high reward from both perspectives.

Belisle is decidedly low reward and Teagarden is a very good prospect at this point. This seems like a high risk/low reward deal from a Texas perspective which is exactly the kind of deal yo stay away from.

No, it is trading an extremely volatile spare part for a (relatively) known commodity, that happens to be their biggest need. Belisle would help the Rangers significantly, given the current state of their rotation, for the next 3-4 years. Teagarden will not help them at all over the next 3-4 years, and may not help any team ever. Like I said, look at the success ratio of catching prospects.

In some ways it would be like the Reds trading Homer Bailey to the A's for Joe Blanton, only we don't have an organizational logjam at starting pitcher like they do at catcher.

flyer85
03-14-2008, 03:27 PM
Belisle would help the Rangers significantly, given the current state of their rotation, for the next 3-4 years. I see it differently. IMHO, Belisle is slightly better than replacement value with known back issues(bad for a pitcher) and Teagarden could be the starter by 2009 if he has a 2008 anything like 2007. TG is known as a good defensive catcher and if he is hits(which he surely did in 2007) he will push right past both Laird and Salty.

LoganBuck
03-14-2008, 03:34 PM
It depends on how you value Belisle. If you think of him as a BOTR guy with no potential for upside, he isn't worth a player like Teagarden.

If you see him as a potential #3 starter who is entering his prime. He is definately worth a player like Teagarden.

I guarantee you that Marty and the rest of the clowns in the Cincy media don't give much value to Belisle.

Benihana
03-14-2008, 03:45 PM
I see it differently. IMHO, Belisle is slightly better than replacement value with known back issues(bad for a pitcher) and Teagarden could be the starter by 2009 if he has a 2008 anything like 2007. TG is known as a good defensive catcher and if he is hits(which he surely did in 2007) he will push right past both Laird and Salty.

Well no matter how you see it, one thing's for sure- it's surely not a "laughable" proposition. In other words, it would be worth floating.

Moving Belisle and some spare parts for Capuano and Teagarden might be an upgrade for 2008 (as it adds at least one lefty to the rotation) but it would be HUGE for the future. And I like Belisle.

Andy Marte and Brian Anderson (the outfielder) are two other low risk, high upside guys I would like to see the Reds take a chance on.

fearofpopvol1
03-14-2008, 03:49 PM
supposedly Laird is the likely starter. Salty has never been known for his defense I would not be surprised to see him end up as 1b/DH.

I know Salty hasn't been known for his defense, but last I heard, they were still going to try to play him there and if his offense blooms to what it's supposed to be, they may keep him there.