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RFS62
03-14-2008, 10:37 PM
Just saw this on the Rangers site....

Hamilton sizzles in Rangers' win
Outfielder reaches base for 10th consecutive plate appearance

By Dick Kaegel / MLB.com


Josh Hamilton went 2-for-2 and has reached base in 10 consecutive plate appearances, spanning nine hits and one walk. He's batting .607 (17-for-28).

Matt700wlw
03-14-2008, 10:38 PM
I do miss him, his skills are mind blowing....hopefully Volquez will make everything ok.

RFS62
03-14-2008, 10:42 PM
Wow, look at his numbers so far in 28 at bats

OBP SLG AVE OPS

.633 1.107 .607 1.740

sonny
03-14-2008, 10:45 PM
Man, that guy would really solve our center fielder dillema!

paulrichjr
03-14-2008, 10:47 PM
Hamilton was the ONLY reason I was interested in the Reds last season...besides I am addicted to them...It was so fun keeping up with him. I just hope Volquez is as good as he has been in the Spring.

Matt700wlw
03-14-2008, 10:50 PM
This trade could make or break Krivsky's legacy whether he's here or not.

OnBaseMachine
03-14-2008, 10:57 PM
I miss Hamilton, a lot, and I wish him the best of luck with the Rangers (I hope he wins multiple MVPs) but I still do that trade over if given the chance. Volquez has an electric arm and the Reds need a stud pitcher more than they need a stud bat. JMO.

reds44
03-14-2008, 11:02 PM
This trade could make or break Krivsky's legacy whether he's here or not.
It's one of the rare trades that will end up helping both teams, IMO.

Matt700wlw
03-14-2008, 11:04 PM
It's one of the rare trades that will end up helping both teams, IMO.

I hope that's the case, that'd be great!

edabbs44
03-14-2008, 11:05 PM
It's one of the rare trades that will end up helping both teams, IMO.

I hope so. I think Wayne made a good trade for the team. But one of the toughest things about trades is that if they don't work out, many don't remember that it looked good at the time of the deal.

If this blows up, WK will look atrocious.

fearofpopvol1
03-14-2008, 11:06 PM
I wouldn't make too much of this. It's a very tiny sample size and it's spring training. If he's putting up amazing numbers by the end of this upcoming season (or even by the break), then the discussion changes. Volquez has looked strong in ST. I wish Josh well, but it's too early to get worked up about anything.

Razor Shines
03-14-2008, 11:20 PM
I wouldn't make too much of this. It's a very tiny sample size and it's spring training. If he's putting up amazing numbers by the end of this upcoming season (or even by the break), then the discussion changes. Volquez has looked strong in ST. I wish Josh well, but it's too early to get worked up about anything.

That's what everyone said last year during ST. Obviously no one thinks he's going to hit .600 for the season, but I have no doubt that if he stays healthy he'll have a very solid season. All that said I still don't have a problem with the trade. I hated to see him go, but the Reds need high powered arms and they weren't likely to get one without giving up something valuable.

RFS62
03-14-2008, 11:21 PM
I wish him well.

I'd still do the trade.

red-in-la
03-14-2008, 11:42 PM
It's one of the rare trades that will end up helping both teams, IMO.

So when Hamilton wins the MVP in the AL, then Volquez wins the Cy Young in the NL? :D

Wheelhouse
03-15-2008, 12:45 AM
Think of it this way: without Volquez the Reds rotation would look dire with the stinkers Affeldt and Belisle have been serving up. Looking at a rotation with Volquez makes me feel Ok about the starters, something I can't remember feeling about a Reds team.

GAC
03-15-2008, 03:50 AM
I wish him well.

I'd still do the trade.


Me too troublemaker. :D

Topcat
03-15-2008, 04:50 AM
All the Best to Josh and I pray he does great he gave this team hope and a spark and we spun that into a Pitcher we hope does the same. Can't look back that is not how baseball works I do hope it is a win win deal for both teams. that also leads to us getting Taylor Teagarden :D

princeton
03-15-2008, 04:55 AM
never trade the mutants

icehole3
03-15-2008, 05:48 AM
Hamilton will bat .400 this year, but will get hurt 1 month into the season. Thats why it's a good trade.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o168/kkkiiimmm/Smileys/2z5puft.gif

RedlegJake
03-15-2008, 07:25 AM
I hope Josh does win the MVP. It won't change my opinion of the trade. We got a very very good young arm at a point that appears to be the "make good" time of his career - the kind of deal that is so high risk because you'll either look really good or horribly stupid by the time it can be accurately accessed. One thing I was sure of was that if Josh stayed healthy and clean he'd do major damage -the guy is amazing. We all know what his risk factors are -brittle body from years of abuse and his relapse risk. That likely limited his trade value for a more proven pitcher like Bedard but that's Baltimore being stupid and near sighted not the Reds. Plus Bruce will replace him soon enough (although I for one think Hamilton is a better hitter and always will be -he's that once in a generation hitter that can redefine the standard players are measured by). There's a double equation here, really. Not only Volquez, the direct denominator, has to prove out, but Bruce needs to be good enough to make watching Hammy be a consistent triple crown threat for Texas palatable. If the edge goes to Texas over the long haul I'm fine with that. If Hammy wins MVPs and tears it up, stays clean and healthy and Volquez becomes a solid #2 for us but never really an ace that would be fine. I don't know that I've ever rooted for a player to succeed as much as I have Josh -its not about the baseball, its about life.

GAC
03-15-2008, 08:33 AM
He had better perform well. He has a lot of ground to make up in order to live up to the analogy made that the trade was as bad as the Robinson one. ;)

Caseyfan21
03-15-2008, 08:41 AM
So when Hamilton wins the MVP in the AL, then Volquez wins the Cy Young in the NL? :D

Best case scenario....I'm rooting for this to happen.

Sea Ray
03-15-2008, 08:51 AM
How's our other favorite son, Denorfia, doing in Oakland? Anyone know his Spring Training numbers?

westofyou
03-15-2008, 09:49 AM
Hamilton in Arizona... if the Reds move to .. I mean when the Reds move to train in Arizona there will be lots of fat springs in that hitting rich area.

Also rocking it out this spring...

Ankiel .359/.405./.615
Brian Anderson - .381/.480/.714
Milledge - .359/.444/.538
Schumaker - .371/.421/.514
Francisco - .382/.421/.647
Murphy (TX) .393/.400/.679

Oh and Denorfia..... .138/.265/.207

RedsManRick
03-15-2008, 10:01 AM
I hope he does well. But it's important to remember that we traded him away not because of what he could (or couldn't do) on the baseball field, but due to his ability (or inability) to stay on the field in the first place.

I'd be thrilled for Josh to have great success in Texas. I just am glad that it's a risk another team has to deal with.

MWM
03-15-2008, 10:28 AM
I was on the fence when it happened, and still am. I probably would not have pulled the trigger, only because I hesitate to trade a player with that much ability. Lots of players have high upside potential, but Hamilton has freakish ability that doesn't come along all that often. His injury history would have been the only reason I would have thought about it. Were it not for that, no way would I have done the deal.

Gainesville Red
03-15-2008, 10:32 AM
How's our other favorite son, Denorfia, doing in Oakland? Anyone know his Spring Training numbers?

Per mlbtraderumors


A's Revive Talks For Crisp

According to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle, the A's and Red Sox are "believed to be discussing Coco Crisp again." Slusser wonders whether the Sox could target Chris Denorfia.

Highlifeman21
03-15-2008, 10:45 AM
Per mlbtraderumors


Quote:
A's Revive Talks For Crisp

According to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle, the A's and Red Sox are "believed to be discussing Coco Crisp again." Slusser wonders whether the Sox could target Chris Denorfia.



Should Denorfia for Crisp happen, that begs the question "Would you rather have Marcus McBeth or Coco Crisp?"

Crisp would solve a lot of the OF question marks we have that were created by shipping Denorfia to the A's.

If Denorfia ends up a Red Sox, I don't see any remote chance of him starting, so it would (I guess?) be a dump of Crisp's salary to Oaktown?

westofyou
03-15-2008, 10:46 AM
Should Denorfia for Crisp happen, that begs the question "Would you rather have Marcus McBeth or Coco Crisp?"

If it should happen it ain't gonna be straight up, The A's will be the ones sweetening that deal.

Highlifeman21
03-15-2008, 10:50 AM
If it should happen it ain't gonna be straight up, The A's will be the ones sweetening that deal.

I completely agree. The A's would definitely have to send a couple more warm bodies to the Bay State.

I guess anything's possible with Billy Beane and the A's, but adding a guy like Crisp to that current roster seems to directly coincide with trading Swisher and Haren, IMO.

nate
03-15-2008, 10:53 AM
I hope he does well. But it's important to remember that we traded him away not because of what he could (or couldn't do) on the baseball field, but due to his ability (or inability) to stay on the field in the first place.

I'd be thrilled for Josh to have great success in Texas. I just am glad that it's a risk another team has to deal with.

I hope he does well too but I thought we traded him because we needed pitching.

westofyou
03-15-2008, 10:56 AM
I hope he does well too but I thought we traded him because we needed pitching.

If we were to walk into the Reds offices I'm certain every monitor, on every desk has posts-its stuck all over them that say:

GET PITCHING

corkedbat
03-15-2008, 01:05 PM
I loved Josh and I've got my criticisms of WK, but I won't take any shots at him for this deal - even if it goes pear-shaped.

Hamilton is a tremendous talent, but there are some risks with him. There are always risks with pitching too - sepcially young pitching - but its just so had to acquire arms like Volquez.

If Bailey, Cueto and Volquez all develop to close to their potential, the Reds will have a plus rotation under their control for several years. Even if all three don't (which is what the laws of baseball averages tell us) having three young arms like theirs is better than two.

Sorry to see Hamilton go, but we had at least one frontline OFer to spare and needed pitching. There were several reasons that Josh was the one to go. I'll live with the deal.

membengal
03-16-2008, 04:49 PM
I wish him well.

I'd still do the trade.

yes. what rfs said. And then some.

Since I remain a Hamilton fan, and wish him nothing but the best (and expect big things from him), I was pleased to nab him for my main fantasy team at auction over the weekend. Just $5. A potential sizable steal.

But, I am more than glad Volquez is on this team.

lollipopcurve
03-16-2008, 06:09 PM
On base his first 3 times today -- 13 in a row now and hitting an ungodly .621

it's spring, but .621?????

BoydsOfSummer
03-16-2008, 06:57 PM
On base his first 3 times today -- 13 in a row now and hitting an ungodly .621

it's spring, but .621?????

That's actually Greek Godly. :eek:

redsrule2500
03-16-2008, 07:03 PM
blah, I'm hating this trade more and more.

We should have traded Dunn for established pitching.

MartyFan
03-16-2008, 07:04 PM
yes. what rfs said. And then some.

Since I remain a Hamilton fan, and wish him nothing but the best (and expect big things from him), I was pleased to nab him for my main fantasy team at auction over the weekend. Just $5. A potential sizable steal.

But, I am more than glad Volquez is on this team.

I was talking to some other Reds fans last night we all agreed that the trade was a good one fore both teams...especially considering the potential for injury of Hamilton and the quality of Volquez.

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 07:26 PM
.621 or 19 strikeouts in 13 innings.... both are pretty ridiculous.

wheels
03-16-2008, 07:29 PM
This is looking lika a good, old fashioned baseball trade.

Both players helping their respective clubs in different ways.

It's pretty cool.

nate
03-16-2008, 08:10 PM
blah, I'm hating this trade more and more.

We should have traded Dunn for established pitching.

Keeping in mind that he would have to waive his no-trade clause, what team would trade established pitching for one year of Dunn?

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 08:56 PM
Keeping in mind that he would have to waive his no-trade clause, what team would trade established pitching for one year of Dunn?

The home town Texas Rangers? Not sure, but its certainly a possibility.

reds44
03-16-2008, 08:58 PM
The home town Texas Rangers? Not sure, but its certainly a possibility.
What established pitching do they have?

cincrazy
03-16-2008, 09:56 PM
blah, I'm hating this trade more and more.

We should have traded Dunn for established pitching.

I'm not sure how you can hate the trade. Volquez is a legit stud. We haven't had a problem producing power hitting outfielder's over the years, but we have had a problem with winning. Finally solving our rotation issues will put a rest to that.

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 10:12 PM
What established pitching do they have?

Valid point I guess.....

red-in-la
03-16-2008, 11:42 PM
If Volquez can hold down a rotation spot and improve as the year goes by.....then I am disliking this trade less and less. My furvent hope is that both teams win.

If Volquez learns and obtains the command that a guy like Harang learned, then he will be an asset. I think WK should have gone for a more proven pitcher at the cost of Hamilton, so the huge risk factor makes the trade in the abstract less than favorable.....but such is the life of a GM I guess. I just hope he doesn't make a habit of it.

Cedric
03-17-2008, 12:35 AM
If Volquez can hold down a rotation spot and improve as the year goes by.....then I am disliking this trade less and less. My furvent hope is that both teams win.

If Volquez learns and obtains the command that a guy like Harang learned, then he will be an asset. I think WK should have gone for a more proven pitcher at the cost of Hamilton, so the huge risk factor makes the trade in the abstract less than favorable.....but such is the life of a GM I guess. I just hope he doesn't make a habit of it.

That's assuming a bunch, IMO. Josh Hamilton is probably considered by some as a ticking time bomb and by others as at least a very inexperienced, injury prone 26 year old. How much more could you ask for than a potential #2 or #3 starter in the big leagues? Teams hold onto players like Volquez at almost all costs. Me? I was sick and tired of the same old Reds. Having to win by bashing 6 runs a night. It was high time that we finally started obtaining real pitching and not worrying about finding the easiest thing to find, (a corner OF).

If Volquez turns out to be a #2 or #3 on our staff it is a good trade no matter what Hamilton does. Hindsight is great but I'd prefer having the pitcher with no drug history and no injury history. And yes I talked about injuries and his addiction being a problem with his value last year.

red-in-la
03-17-2008, 12:57 AM
My only fear with Volquez is that lots of kids have great springs because they are so focused and get so much extra attention. Then comes a cold April day and they revert to past struggles. We will see.

I still think WK sold low on Hamilton.....and it has always been my contention that the only way the Reds win is if Volquez pitches all year like he has in ST.....which I still believe the odds are against. But I am still rooting for Volquez to have a great year.

dougdirt
03-17-2008, 01:03 AM
My only fear with Volquez is that lots of kids have great springs because they are so focused and get so much extra attention. Then comes a cold April day and they revert to past struggles. We will see.

I still think WK sold low on Hamilton.....and it has always been my contention that the only way the Reds win is if Volquez pitches all year like he has in ST.....which I still believe the odds are against. But I am still rooting for Volquez to have a great year.

If Volquez pitches like he has all spring for the Reds this year he will win the Cy Young unanimously. So you are probably right, he will likely not do that.

fearofpopvol1
03-17-2008, 01:52 AM
If Volquez pitches like he has all spring for the Reds this year he will win the Cy Young unanimously. So you are probably right, he will likely not do that.

A 3.46 ERA equates to a unanimous CY Young winner? I believe Arroyo's ERA was pretty close to that in 2006 and he wasn't anywhere close to being a CY Young candidate.

That's not to say that Volquez has pitched bad. He's looked great thus far, but I'm not sure his numbers are "unanimous CY Young."

dougdirt
03-17-2008, 02:00 AM
A 3.46 ERA equates to a unanimous CY Young winner? I believe Arroyo's ERA was pretty close to that in 2006 and he wasn't anywhere close to being a CY Young candidate.

That's not to say that Volquez has pitched bad. He's looked great thus far, but I'm not sure his numbers are "unanimous CY Young."

His ERA wouldn't stay that high.

Just translated over 180 innings, he would strike out 263 batters, walk just 42. That will win you the Cy Young every year unless you are out there giving up 30+ HR a year.

mth123
03-17-2008, 02:38 AM
I still think WK sold low on Hamilton.

Lets see. He was acquired in the rule 5 draft as a total baseball afterthought who was a failed prospect with addiction issues who didn't even have a good season in limited minor league play the year before. Then, with a lot of nurturing that didn't seem sustainable long term, the team coaxed a breakout sensation out of him. After overseeing such a huge value increase, WK flipped him for the most valued commodity in the game - a major league ready, minimum making, not even arb eligible power arm with true TOR stuff.

I was hoping for more established in a Hamilton deal as well, but I'd say this was the epitome of buy low, sell high and in hingsight its hard to imagine doing better no matter how Volquez turns out.