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OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Reds send Rosales to Minors camp
Up-and-coming infielder impressed Baker with .321 spring
By Jim Molony / MLB.com

SARASOTA, Fla. -- The Reds re-assigned infielder Adam Rosales to Minor League camp Sunday morning, reducing the number of players in the Major League camp to 49.

The Reds' Minor League Hitter of the Year and a Florida State League All-Star last season, Rosales had been invited to camp despite having only three years of professional experience. He was a 12th-round pick in the 2005 First-Year Player Draft.

Rosales, 24, impressed Reds manager Dusty Baker this spring, batting .321 (9-for-28) with a home run, two RBIs and six runs scored.

"He had a real good spring," Baker said. "Played all over, hustled, showed great attitude, great aptitude. For a young guy, he can play different positions hard. He can play both sides of second base, works hard, hustles all the time."

On Saturday, the Reds optioned catcher Craig Tatum and right-handed pitcher Daryl Thompson to Double-A Chattanooga. The club also re-assigned right-hander Jon Adkins to the Minor League camp.

The cuts left Cincinnati with 50 players on the roster, including pitcher Bobby Livingston, but Livingston is on the 60-day disabled list.

Further cuts will be coming soon, as the Reds still have 25 pitchers in camp with Opening Day just two weeks from Monday.

"These innings are becoming more and more precious," Baker said.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080316&content_id=2430427&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

WMR
03-16-2008, 11:09 AM
Juan effing Castro???????????

GOD PLEASE NO. :pray: :pray: :pray:

Matt700wlw
03-16-2008, 11:09 AM
Oh yes. It will happen. Oh yes.

Cyclone792
03-16-2008, 11:11 AM
Castro has officially kicked the door down now; he'll be on the roster.

Matt700wlw
03-16-2008, 11:12 AM
We've been Castrated

WMR
03-16-2008, 11:14 AM
Just when I start to like Krivsky a little bit he allows @#$% like this to go down.

Highlifeman21
03-16-2008, 11:16 AM
Castro has officially kicked the door down now; he'll be on the roster.

On the roster, Hell, he's our Opening Day SS now.

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Baker has been talking up Jerry Gil throughout ST so there's still a chance Gil could make the team as the backup shortstop over Juan Castro, or at least I can hope. I have never understood the infatuation with Castro. The guy doesn't bring anything to the table - his defense is terribly overrated, his bat is one of the worst in major league baseball, and he's slow. It must be his veteran presence.:rolleyes:

WMR
03-16-2008, 11:24 AM
He's no base clogger.

Steve4192
03-16-2008, 11:34 AM
Baker has been talking up Jerry Gil throughout ST so there's still a chance Gil could make the team as the backup shortstop over Juan Castro, or at least I can hope.

Are you kidding?

Gil is one of the few guys who I am 100% confident is WORSE than Castro with a bat in his hands. 670 career minor league OPS, 403 major league OPS. Not once, in his entire major/minor league career, has the guy ever cleared the 300 OBP barrier.

Jerry Gil makes Juan Castro look like Ernie Banks.

redsfan4445
03-16-2008, 11:36 AM
Why Not Andy Green?? he plays SS, 2b, 3rd and OF... he is hungry to make the team and he keeps hitting.. and he is from KY..he wants it bad!!

Matt700wlw
03-16-2008, 11:36 AM
Would he be a younger Freel?

I'm in!

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 11:41 AM
Are you kidding?

Gil is one of the few guys who I am 100% confident is WORSE than Castro with a bat in his hands. 670 career minor league OPS, 403 major league OPS. Not once, in his entire major/minor league career, has the guy ever cleared the 300 OBP barrier.

Jerry Gil makes Juan Castro look like Ernie Banks.

At least Gil has a little power compared to Castro. Gil hit 27 homeruns in 2006 in 493 atbats. Yeah he lacks any OBP skills at all but so does Juan Castro (Career .269 OBP in 2211 MLB atbats). If it were up to me, neither of them would make the team but unfortunately is appears one of them will, and I'm hoping its Gil because he can provide a little "pop".

Steve4192
03-16-2008, 11:50 AM
At least Gil has a little power compared to Castro. Gil hit 27 homeruns in 2006 in 493 atbats.

One fluke season does not a power hitter make.

Gil has a career 395 SLG in the minors, which is not appreciably different than Castro's minor league career 386 SLG. However, Castro's minor league career 330 OBP is leaps and bounds better than Gil's career 275 OBP in the minors.

TWO SEVENTY FIVE. That is just flat-out pitiful.

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 12:01 PM
One fluke season does not a power hitter make.

Gil has a career 395 SLG in the minors, which is not appreciably different than Castro's minor league career 386 SLG. However, Castro's minor league career 330 OBP is leaps and bounds better than Gil's career 275 OBP in the minors.

TWO SEVENTY FIVE. That is just flat-out pitiful.

Like I said earlier, I don't want either of them one the team, but if I had to choose one it would be Gil. Gil's 27 HR season may have been a fluke but Castro never had a fluke season like that. The most HR Castro has hit in a season, majors or minors, is 9 back in 2003. Gil has hit two homers in 7 spring atbats also. Maybe his power is developing...he was listed at 6'3" 183 last season and now he's at 6'3" 200. Again, I'm no big fan of his but I prefer him over Castro.

Far East
03-16-2008, 12:04 PM
Castro's probably on the 25 man roster only until Gonzalez returns.

LINEDRIVER
03-16-2008, 12:21 PM
Juan Castro is in the second year of a two-year deal. Castro was paid $925,000 in 2007 and will be paid $975,000 in 2008. The Reds have a 2009 option at $1.1 million with a $100,000 buyout. Also, he will get $50,000 bonuses for 400, 450 and 500 plate appearances, totals he probably won't reach.

I would expect Castro to make the team and hang around quite awhile, unless he can be disabled or unless he's hitting .050 on the Fourth of July. Krivsky, who is the last year of his own contact, won't send him packing while paying him, especially with Walt Jocketty looking over Krivsky's shoulder this year.

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Just once I'd like to see the Reds go north with the best 25-man roster possible. That means getting rid of Juan Castro, Mike Stanton, and Gary Majewski.

Matt700wlw
03-16-2008, 12:56 PM
Just once I'd like to see the Reds go north with the best 25-man roster possible. That means getting rid of Juan Castro, Mike Stanton, and Gary Majewski.

Ahh...nice concept.

However, it's not our money.

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 01:09 PM
2.) Adam Rosales was shipped out today and it pained Baker. Rosales batted .321 and played all four infield positions and the infield, and played them with some skill. “And he works hard and hustles at all times. I enjoyed having him here,” said Dusty, who also dropped word that Josh Roenicke (4 innings, 2 hits, 1 walk, 4 Ks) will also be shipped out. “He certainly has pitched his way into future considerations. He has been on a fast track. He’s only pitched A-ball and a little AA-ball (19 innings). You can only carry so many.”

http://ctrentrosecrans.com/

Damnit! Roenicke shipped out too?!? Why?!?

Tom Servo
03-16-2008, 01:14 PM
Need to make room for Stanton and Castro...

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2008, 01:18 PM
Josh Roenicke should be on the opening day roster no if's and's or but's about it! Have Coffey and Majewski start the season in Louisville and go with a bullpen of:

Cordero
Burton
Weathers
Affeldt
Roenicke
Bray
Stanton

Matt700wlw
03-16-2008, 01:18 PM
Need to make room for Stanton and Castro...

Unfortunately.

I know...Stanton has had a good spring..who gives a crud?

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2008, 01:32 PM
On the fast track

By Hal McCoy | Sunday, March 16, 2008, 09:24 AM
Latest comment

They call it the Coffin Corner, a string of lockers to the right as players walk in the clubhouse doors.

It’s where young players getting their first taste of Major League life slip into their uniforms and watch as stars and studs walk by.

On Sundahy morning, there were eight empty lockers and one occupied locker. The empties were formerly the location of players sent back to the minors over the past week.

Still standing is pitcher Josh Roenicke — and that’s an accomplishment. While he is 25, he has pitched in only 67 minor-league games and 70 total innings.

He was the 10th round draft pick of the Cincinnati Reds in 2006 out of UCLA and he has thoroughbred blood lines - his father, Ron, and his uncle, Gary, were major-league players. They were outfielders, not pitchers.

With Roenicke still occupying a precarious spot in the big-league clubhouse, manager Dusty Baker was asked about his status. After all, he has made four appearances, pitched four innings, given up no runs, two hits, one walk and struck out four.

Pretty dazzling stuff for an inexperienced young man from Ruff & Ready, Calif.

“He doesn’t have enough experience and we’ll send him out to pitch pretty soon,” said Baker. “He certainly has pitched his way into future considerations. He has been on a fast track. He’s only pitched ‘A’ ball and a little ‘AA’ ball (19 games, 19 innings). You can only carry so many.

“We can only carry 12 pitchers and we have like 16 or 17 guys under consideration,” Baker added. “You can’t carry everybody and he is probably the least experienced of any pitcher in camp. But he IS on a fast track. For a guy who hasn’t pitched much, he is on a real fast track.”

There was, though, one cut Sunday and it pained Baker because Adam Rosales, a 24-year-old infielder left an impression - on and off the field. Rosales played in 17 games and hit .321.

“We sent him out to play after he had a real good spring for us,” said Baker. “He played all over the place, hustled, showed great attitude and great aptitude for the game. He has a big future.”

Rosales played shortstop, second base, first base, third base, outfield - all over - and Baker said, “I asked him what he liked best and he said shortstop, but half the players I know came up as shortstops. I talked to (infield coach) Chris Speier about that and he said Rosales is kind of tall and lean for a shorstop.

“But for a young guy, he showed he can play a lot of different positions and that’s hard to do,” Baker said. “He can play both sides of second base, which is even harder. A lot of guys can’t do that. And he works hard and hustles at all times. I enjoyed having him here.”

Baker hates to make cuts, but this one cut him deeper.

“It’s tough especially with such a good kid,” said Baker. “Not that there are any bad ones, but there are some exceptional ones. He is one of the few kids, only one of two or three, who came in when I first got here and introduced himself. That’s old-school stuff and I like it. You shouldn’t have to tell them and he didn’t have to be told.”

There is a major issue, too, involving the catching situation and the abysmal back of David Ross, who hasn’t played in any of the team’s first 17 exhibition games.

Baker is at the point where he doesn’t believe Ross will be ready for Opening Day, meaning Paul Bako makes the team. Perhaps Ross will start on the DL.

Asked if Ross could be ready by Opening Day, Baker raised his eyebrows as if somebody poked him in the posterior with a sharp stick.

“It’s gonna be tough on him,” said Baker. “He hasn’t done any hitting or squatting in games. He has to get at-bats for timing and also have to get timing for catching. I’d like to get him in there to catch some of the guys he hasn’t caught before.”

That’s a long list: Jeremy Affeldt, Josh Fogg, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Francisco Cordero, Scott Sauerbeck.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Big Klu
03-16-2008, 01:35 PM
I thought Gary Roenicke was Josh's father, and Ron was his uncle. At least that is what one of the articles earlier this spring stated.

Sea Ray
03-16-2008, 01:40 PM
I thought Gary Roenicke was Josh's father, and Ron was his uncle. At least that is what one of the articles earlier this spring stated.

Considering this was Hal's article it's very possible you are correct.


Joshua James Roenicke...born on August 4, 1982...parents are Gary and Debby Roenicke...uncle, Ron, played at UCLA in 1977...played football for UCLA in 2002 and 2003...

http://uclabruins.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/roenicke_josh00.html

If you ask Hal about it, I'm sure he'll tell you it was his editor's fault...

Kc61
03-16-2008, 01:45 PM
Josh Roenicke should be on the opening day roster no if's and's or but's about it! Have Coffey and Majewski start the season in Louisville and go with a bullpen of:

Cordero
Burton
Weathers
Affeldt
Roenicke
Bray
Stanton

I agree this is the bullpen, except that Roenicke's spot will be taken by a long-man/multi-innings guy. The loser in the rotation battle (Belisle or Fogg) could get that spot. If not, I'd guess Coffey. A right hander for sure, don't need 4 lefties in the pen.

RedsManRick
03-16-2008, 02:33 PM
So much for breaking camp with best 25.

LoganBuck
03-16-2008, 04:23 PM
Veteran Presence: Feel the breeze!

Patterson
Castro
Stanton

jojo
03-16-2008, 04:32 PM
Castro vs Gil.....this sounds like it could become a 50-60 page thread.....

RedLegSuperStar
03-16-2008, 05:25 PM
I agree this is the bullpen, except that Roenicke's spot will be taken by a long-man/multi-innings guy. The loser in the rotation battle (Belisle or Fogg) could get that spot. If not, I'd guess Coffey. A right hander for sure, don't need 4 lefties in the pen.

Kc I forgot about Belisle and his possible shift back to the pen discussion... I think Fogg rounds out the rotation allong with Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, and Volquez. Might put Fogg at 4 and Volquez at 5. None the less I would go Roenicke over Bray if Stanton has to be on this roster.

Kc61
03-16-2008, 06:04 PM
If it were me, I'd give the last bullpen spot to Coffey. Just a hunch. The Reds need someone who thrives on a lot of work and can go multiple innings.

I know some people want a true "long man" who is, really, a sixth starter who can pitch when the starter is knocked out early. I think it is more important to have a couple of workhorse relievers, who can pitch often throwing two innings sometimes.

So my pen would be Bray, Affeldt, Stanton (contract necessitates), Weathers, Burton, Cordero and. . . Coffey.

This would mean that Fogg or Belisle would not be with the team at the beginning. Maybe a trade.

osuceltic
03-16-2008, 08:58 PM
This board really surprises me sometimes. Do you really want Rosales sitting the bench behind Keppinger? Do you trust him to go into a game as a late-game defensive replacement? Do you trust him as a pinch-hitter -- something I doubt he's ever been asked to do?

The only way you take him north is if he's your starting SS, and that isn't happening. You send him to the minors and let him play every day so someday he's ready to be your starting SS. In the meantime, you have Castro available to be a backup at any infield position. Despite the wisdom of this board, Castro is a very good defensive infielder. He's not a good hitter. But he isn't going to get many at-bats, unless there are more injuries.

This isn't any great mystery. It's the same reason you don't keep Jay Bruce up here if he isn't going to be a starting OF. Or any good young player. They need experience and at-bats. If they can't get them with the big club, you send them to the minors and let them get them there.

Now ... is all the *****ing about this due to the fact that you believe Rosales should be the starting SS?

And yes, Castro could conceivably start the season as the starting SS. It would be temporary and worse things could happen.

He isn't nearly as bad as most here make him out to be.

Cyclone792
03-16-2008, 09:04 PM
And yes, Castro could conceivably start the season as the starting SS. It would be temporary and worse things could happen.

He isn't nearly as bad as most here make him out to be.

Juan Castro is among the 20 worst hitters in the history of Major League Baseball.

That's right ... I said HISTORY OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.

Can worse things happen? Sure, I guess so. I mean Dusty Baker could ruin the careers of both Edinson Volquez and Johnny Cueto by the end of the season by driving their arms through a meat grinder, and that would be worse than Castro be a regular for this club.

Both scenarios would result in the Reds screwing themselves.

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 09:10 PM
This board really surprises me sometimes. Do you really want Rosales sitting the bench behind Keppinger? Do you trust him to go into a game as a late-game defensive replacement? Do you trust him as a pinch-hitter -- something I doubt he's ever been asked to do?

The only way you take him north is if he's your starting SS, and that isn't happening. You send him to the minors and let him play every day so someday he's ready to be your starting SS. In the meantime, you have Castro available to be a backup at any infield position. Despite the wisdom of this board, Castro is a very good defensive infielder. He's not a good hitter. But he isn't going to get many at-bats, unless there are more injuries.

This isn't any great mystery. It's the same reason you don't keep Jay Bruce up here if he isn't going to be a starting OF. Or any good young player. They need experience and at-bats. If they can't get them with the big club, you send them to the minors and let them get them there.

Now ... is all the *****ing about this due to the fact that you believe Rosales should be the starting SS?

And yes, Castro could conceivably start the season as the starting SS. It would be temporary and worse things could happen.

He isn't nearly as bad as most here make him out to be.

Rosales to the minors isn't a problem really, but he is never going to be a 'starting SS'. The problem is Castro somehow being on this team. His defense isn't good. His bat is atrocious. Where does that fit into the equation?

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 09:11 PM
More so, do you trust Castro as a defensive replacement or a pinch hitter? I don't.

TOBTTReds
03-16-2008, 09:14 PM
FYI, Roenicke is still in Major League camp.

dougdirt
03-16-2008, 09:17 PM
FYI, Roenicke is still in Major League camp.

For now. It doesn't sound like they plan on keeping him there much longer.

Raisor
03-16-2008, 09:20 PM
Everyone can stop making fake news reports now. I've been assured that Castro isn't making the team.

Please.

Pretty please.

Cyclone792
03-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Everyone can stop making fake news reports now. I've been assured that Castro isn't making the team.

Please.

Pretty please.

Good ole Juan Castro.

Not a hard man to track. Bats 2nd in Dusty's lineup every game.

LoganBuck
03-16-2008, 09:54 PM
Remember when I was laughed at for suggesting he would make the roster!

Castromania!

pedro
03-16-2008, 09:57 PM
Remember when I was laughed at for suggesting he would make the roster!

Castromania!


We'll see how long he lasts after Gonzalez comes back.

Not long would be my guess.

klw
03-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Juan Castro is among the 20 worst hitters in the history of Major League Baseball.

That's right ... I said HISTORY OF MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.

.

I am not doubting you but is this hyperbole or is there a criteria being used? If so I would love to see the stats on that list.

Raisor
03-16-2008, 10:25 PM
We'll see how long he lasts after Gonzalez comes back.

Not long would be my guess.



You say these things so you can sleep at night. Admit it!

pedro
03-16-2008, 10:27 PM
You say these things so you can sleep at night. Admit it!

never.

fearofpopvol1
03-16-2008, 10:44 PM
I've got less of a problem with Castro making the team than I do as him being the starting SS. If Keppinger is the starter, then it won't be the worst thing ever. I'm also curious to see what happens when Gonzo comes back.

Cyclone792
03-17-2008, 06:31 AM
I am not doubting you but is this hyperbole or is there a criteria being used? If so I would love to see the stats on that list.

Here's a post from when I looked it up ...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1166362&postcount=63

The data is a few years old, but probably all that's changed is his horrible 2007 stats aren't included. It'd make me too ill to bother to look up the updated data.

FYI, Bill Bergen - who is at the top of that list - is often credited by many historians to be the worst position player in the history of baseball.

klw
03-17-2008, 07:27 AM
Wow Felix Milan did not make the list! No Mendoza either.

TOBTTReds
03-17-2008, 09:04 AM
For now. It doesn't sound like they plan on keeping him there much longer.

Just saying the title of the thread is innacurate. Also, Dusty isn't making cuts, and he is the only one that said anything about him.

There are a lot of guys I could name right now that won't make the team, but it doesn't mean they are in MiL camp.

traderumor
03-17-2008, 09:10 AM
Is Jeff Keppinger hurt? That would be the only reason I see hand-wringing over Castro starting at SS on OD.

Raisor
03-17-2008, 09:16 AM
I've got less of a problem with Castro making the team than I do as him being the starting SS.

The only reason Castro should ever be on a major league roster is the snark factor.

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2008, 10:47 AM
He hasn't officially been sent out yet. It won't let me edit the title...

ROENICKE: Josh Roenicke has a locker row to himself. Most of the high-numbers guys around him have been sent back to the minor-league camp.

Roenicke's arm is big-league, but that doesn't mean he'll start this year in the majors.

"He doesn't have much experience," Baker said. "He's pitched his way into future consideration. He's on the fast track."

Roenicke probably will be sent to minor-league camp before long.

"I think it's safe to say that sooner or later you're going to see him go back to get his work in," Baker said. "Innings are getting more and more precious."

The Reds have some tough decisions as far as the bullpen.

"You can only carry so many," Baker said. "You can only carry 12. We've probably got 16, 17 guys in consideration. (Roenicke's) probably the least experienced of anyone here experience-wise. For a guy who hasn't pitched much, he's on the real fast track."

CAPELLAN CHANCES: Jose Capellan, a 21-year-old left-hander picked up off waivers from the San Francisco Giants, pitched in a minor-league game Sunday.

There's a chance that he won't even get in a big-league game.

"I don't know much about him," Baker said. "He's kind of a long shot. But some long shots make it."

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080317/SPT04/803170412/

fearofpopvol1
03-17-2008, 12:02 PM
The only reason Castro should ever be on a major league roster is the snark factor.

I understand that, but given that he's being paid a mill this year, I don't envision the Reds just cutting him until at least Gonzo comes back and even then, it's questionable.