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princeton
03-18-2008, 11:46 AM
often voted best defensive infielder in Arizona system. High errors in minors, though.

one of very best arms in all of baseball (until he had TJ surgery last year).

after hitting nothing at all for years, he hit 27 HRs in 2006, yet was dealt for nothing more than Abe Woody. Doesn't walk. He couldn't play last season. He has whacked some balls this spring.

reportedly plays all positions well, including CF.

I can't say that I've ever seen him defend, and don't know how his repaired arm now plays. Can he defend at shortstop at a major league level? How could he (or anyone) not beat out Juan Castro? Is he too much like Keppinger?

Chip R
03-18-2008, 11:51 AM
Injury wise he makes Austin Kearns look like Lou Gehrig.

Joseph
03-18-2008, 11:57 AM
He can supposedly stand at home plate and throw a ball over the wall in CF.

Thats Coombsian.

Chip R
03-18-2008, 11:58 AM
He can supposedly stand at home plate and throw a ball over the wall in CF.

Thats Coombsian.


Coombs would catch it, though.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:00 PM
Injury wise he makes Austin Kearns look like Lou Gehrig.

is that all you got?

he's currently ambulatory, plus Castro is so old that he can't play in Florida more than every other day.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:00 PM
He can supposedly stand at home plate and throw a ball over the wall in CF.

post-surgery?

Joseph
03-18-2008, 12:01 PM
post-surgery?

Yup. He just doesn't like to do it anymore for fear of injury again. Again, according to reports. Its not like I've seen it.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:03 PM
if princeton had been Arizona's farm director, Jerry Gil would be pitching right now.

but if he puts Castro into retirement, then bless his shoulda-been-a-pitcher's soul.

Chip R
03-18-2008, 12:04 PM
is that all you got?

he's currently ambulatory, plus Castro is so old that he can't play in Florida more than every other day.


Just sayin'.

Difference is, Castro makes $1M whether he's on the team or not and Gil can go to AAA.

BRM
03-18-2008, 12:04 PM
Just sayin'.

Difference is, Castro makes $1M whether he's on the team or not and Gil can go to AAA.

The old options game.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:06 PM
Just sayin'.

Difference is, Castro makes $1M whether he's on the team or not and Gil can go to AAA.

is THAT all you got? The diff between $1M and major league minimum is scratch.

Manzanillo's nephew, right? Does he only play well in spring and beat on his cup too?

Chip R
03-18-2008, 12:07 PM
is THAT all you got? The diff between $1M and major league minimum is scratch.



For the Reds?

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:09 PM
For the Reds?

Activating Gil is value-added. We're building up our DR profile. Jerry Gil can go back and tell 'em to send the young talents to us.

BRM
03-18-2008, 12:11 PM
C. Trent mentions Gil on his blog today.



Jerry Gil is back. The versatile Gil caught manager Dusty Baker's eye early in the spring and after a quad injury set him back, Gil has played well in his return. He starts today at shortstop, perhaps Baker is looking to see if Gil could play there in Alex Gonzalez's absence. It's Gil's first start of the spring, having hit safely in 4 of his 6 appearances. He's played SS, 3B, LF, CF and RF.

Chip R
03-18-2008, 12:14 PM
Activating Gil is value-added. We're building up our DR profile. Jerry Gil can go back and tell 'em to send the young talents to us.


We have Mario Soto and Edwin Encarnacion for that not to mention Juan Duran.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2008, 12:15 PM
I said this in another thread a couple days ago, but give me Jerry Gil pver Juan Castro. Castro brings nothing to the table. Gil, OTOH, is an upgrade with the glove (according to BA), provides some pop with the bat and speed on the bases, and has the ability to play numerous positions. Gil needs to drastically improve his plate discipline before he could ever be a regular but you gotta like the developing power. He's added about 15-20 pounds in the last two years and it showed in 2006 with his 27 homeruns.

OnBaseMachine
03-18-2008, 12:16 PM
We have Mario Soto and Edwin Encarnacion for that not to mention Juan Duran.

And Francisco Cordero, Johnny Cueto, and Edinson Volquez.:D

M2
03-18-2008, 12:21 PM
I could see keeping Gil (or Green) over Castro because that player has to disappear once Gonzalez comes back.

There's no reason to think the Reds will go with less than 12 pitchers. At full strength, that leaves space for one backup catcher, Freel, Keppinger, Hopper and a 1B (Hatteberg if Votto gets the gig or Hatteberg's platoon partner if Votto doesn't). Castro's going to be cut at some juncture and Gil has options. Plus, it makes Juan Castro go away and I'd be in favor of keeping anyone to make that happen.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:23 PM
Gil, OTOH, is an upgrade with the glove (according to BA).


let me tell you about BA. BA doesn't know squat about gloves.

has anyone seen the guy play yet? Castro isn't much, but he catches the ball. I'm guessing that Gil's a bobbler. Also, he's listed at 6'3". Lots of guys that tall fill out and outgrow the position completely.

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:26 PM
I could see keeping Gil (or Green) over Castro because that player has to disappear once Gonzalez comes back.

There's no reason to think the Reds will go with less than 12 pitchers. At full strength, that leaves space for one backup catcher, Freel, Keppinger, Hopper and a 1B (Hatteberg if Votto gets the gig or Hatteberg's platoon partner if Votto doesn't). Castro's going to be cut at some juncture and Gil has options. Plus, it makes Juan Castro go away and I'd be in favor of keeping anyone to make that happen.

I agree about 12 pitchers, and Gil plays so many positions that he makes more sense than a guy like Castro (or Norris Hopper, frankly)

M2
03-18-2008, 12:27 PM
let me tell you about BA. BA doesn't know squat about gloves

Agreed, especially at SS.

My take on Gil's defense is he plays way too much OF for a guy who's supposedly gifted at SS. He's likely all arm out there.

Chip R
03-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Agreed, especially at SS.

My take on Gil's defense is he plays way too much OF for a guy who's supposedly gifted at SS. He's likely all arm out there.


Plus he doesn't have a cool nickname like "Manos de Oro".

princeton
03-18-2008, 12:30 PM
Agreed, especially at SS.

My take on Gil's defense is he plays way too much OF for a guy who's supposedly gifted at SS. He's likely all arm out there.

maybe it goes back to OBM's post about his gaining 15-20 lbs. If he outgrew the position, and doesn't hit enough for third or CF, then it would explain his cheap trade price and all of the positions that he has played recently. Also, he's pretty tall to make the turn at second.

Rojo
03-18-2008, 12:42 PM
if princeton had been Arizona's farm director, Jerry Gil would be pitching right now.

Is it too late? I'm thinking Brooks Kieschnik (sic)?

princeton
03-22-2008, 05:45 AM
from Enquirer:

Gil, 25, intrigues Baker.

"He has everyday skills," Baker said.

GAC
03-22-2008, 06:59 AM
from Enquirer:

Gil, 25, intrigues Baker.

"He has everyday skills," Baker said.

everyday skills

file that one :p:

mth123
03-22-2008, 07:01 AM
I think Gil has a chance, but its dependent on his ability to play SS. A bench these days needs to find 5 guys who can provide certain skills which are have to haves. You need some one with ability to play C, an IF who can play SS and an OF who can play CF. You need a RH Bat and a LH Bat. Its nice to have a small ball guy or two but a good bench also has some pop. That is going to be a difficult combination for the Reds to come up with since they have few players who possess multiples of these abilities.

1. Assume one spot goes to a back-up catcher, either Bako or Hanigan. It doesn't really matter much which one as far as the effect on the other spots, since the back-up catcher won't be a PH option.

2. The second need is a LHPH. It seems that out of the guys remaining there are three options, Option 1 is for Patterson to be the LHPH with somebody else being the CF. That won't happen. Option 2 is to add a starting catcher, keep Hanigan or Bako and let Javy be the LHPH. An upgrade would be nice but I think adding a catcher will be difficult. The most likely scenario has Votto making the team with he and Hatte sharing 1B and the LHPH role. This also fills at least part of the power requirement.

3. The remaining spots depend on which mix of abilities the players possess. Freel and Hopper are probably givens unless a trade happen. That fills the needs for RHPH, guys that can play CF and ability to play small ball.

4. That leaves one spot for Cabrera, Hairston, Castro, A. Phillips, Green, and Gil. The need for a SS eliminates Phillips, Hairston and Cabrera. Of the remaining guys, Gil fills the most needs. He can play SS, has RH Power, has speed, some small ball skill and can also play CF. He is OB challenged, but he's the best option of the remaining players. The Reds, typically IMO, will choose Castro. I don't think the others have a chance (maybe Green since he can play SS in a pinch) unless Freel or Hopper is moved.

The bench I'd choose out of the guys remaining:

Hanigan, Freel, Hatte, Gil, with the last spot between Green or Cabrera.

The bench the Reds likely choose barring a trade:

Bako, Castro, Hopper, Freel, Hatte.

jojo
03-22-2008, 08:32 AM
from Enquirer:

Gil, 25, intrigues Baker.

"He has everyday skills," Baker said.

After SEVEN minor league seasons he's got an OBP of .275. Baker sees a stud.

:all_cohol


:barf:

lollipopcurve
03-22-2008, 08:56 AM
I like Gil's tools and versatility a lot. But he needs 500 ABs in Louisville in order to get himself ready to hit in the big leagues, in my opinion.

mth123
03-22-2008, 09:47 AM
After SEVEN minor league seasons he's got an OBP of .275. Baker sees a stud.

:all_cohol


:barf:

Thing is this team doesn't need bench players that are guys to stand in for the starter for long stretches. If an OF gets hurt, Bruce is going to get the call. If an IF goes down, Keppinger is the guy. The bench guys needed on this team are guys that can do specific things to help the team win games. Gil can play anywhere in the IF and OF. He has the glove for SS or CF and the arm for RF. He has the speed to PR, the power to be a RH threat that this team lacks, and the versatility to allow the team to double switch at any point in the line-up which should help the pitching staff. If Gil was being considered as a starter in the line-up everyday, I'd agree that his primary OB and Slugging skills are lacking and I'd be barfing with you, but as a bench player, this team could do a lot worse. Gil's skillset lends itself to bench type roles where the secondary skills are more emphasized. I think he's the obvious choice as a back-up at SS now because of the other things he can add off a short bench. This is a team with 12 pitchers, a back-up catcher and a guy who can only play 1B -leaving room for only three guys to add all the things that a team needs it bench players to do. I prefer him to Castro or Hopper. Actually, I'd say only the back-up catcher, Freel and Hatte should be considered ahead of him and when Gonzalez comes back and Keppinger goes to the bench, Gil becomes the perfect jack-of-all-trades 25th man IMO.

dfs
03-22-2008, 09:49 AM
I like Gil's tools and versatility a lot. But he needs 500 ABs in Louisville in order to get himself ready to hit in the big leagues, in my opinion.
I agree.

Over the winter Salmon was dropped off the 40 man roster with an invite to the big league camp. When the time came to send him to the minors, the reds dealt him to KC for a ptbnl.

This last winter Gil was also removed from the 40 man roster and quickly re-upped with the organization. I can't imagine anybody is going to promise him a major league roster positition, but a slot on somebodies 40 man isn't out of the question.

I know his previous history, but after the last two years, I really want to see what kind of player he is.

reds44
03-22-2008, 12:13 PM
He can supposedly stand at home plate and throw a ball over the wall in CF.

Thats Coombsian.
:eek:

Good God, is that true?

I think Gil is a guy who needs AB. I'm not sure how well he would do sitting on the bench and only getting an AB or playing an inning or two in the field every couple of days.

dougdirt
03-22-2008, 12:13 PM
:eek:

Good God, is that true?

Yes, it is.

reds44
03-22-2008, 12:15 PM
Yes, it is.
In that case, he makes Josh Hamilton look like Chad Pennington. That's flat out amazing.

mth123
03-22-2008, 04:58 PM
Listening to today's game, it sounds like Gil is fairly poor at SS. A lot of my reasoning for supporting Gil depends on his ability to play SS. If he is this bad then I'll pass. I do think his ability to play in the majors is based on defensive ability at SS, CF and RF coupled with some power, speed and small ball skills. Those are things that teams make use of off the bench. I don't think more ABs in the minors will improve his OB skills and I have no illusions that he could ever be a regular player. But while he's young, cheap, still rangy in the field and quick on the bases he could be a useful spare part filling a number of roles. But if he can't play SS, he becomes an inferior version of Norris Hopper with a tad more power and I'd pass on him.

OnBaseMachine
03-25-2008, 09:55 AM
Gil cut

From the Reds: The Reds have reassigned to minor league camp IF/OF Jerry Gil.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2008/03/gil-cut.asp

Chip R
03-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Looks like Ol' Gil's looking for a job

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/gil-gunderson-52872.jpg

redsmetz
03-25-2008, 10:29 AM
Looks like Ol' Gil's looking for a job



Was he released or just assigned to the minor league camp?

princeton
03-25-2008, 10:38 AM
useful tools. He'll be back. After not playing for an entire year, it's better that he's not immediately on a major league bench. Let him play his way back.

in the '90's, the Reds' bench was a weapon. However, in the '00's, the bench has been dreadful, since it has often had to carry 1-2 pairs of outfield legs, a MI glove, sometimes a third nonhitting catcher, and 12 pitchers.

next year, I think that the Reds bench will rise again.

Big Klu
03-25-2008, 10:48 AM
Players still in camp:

Pitchers (18)
25 David Weathers
29 Mike Stanton
31 Matt Belisle
33 Josh Fogg
34 Homer Bailey
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
45 Bill Bray
48 Francisco Cordero
50 Kent Mercker
51 Jared Burton
52 Jim Brower
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto
84 Mike Lincoln
-- Jose Capallan

Catchers (3)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin
26 David Ross

Infielders (11)
2 Alex Gonzalez
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
15 Jerry Hairston, Jr.
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion
46 Andy Phillips
54 Jolbert Cabrera
60 Andy Green

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn

klw
03-25-2008, 12:45 PM
Yes, it is.

Didn't Pedro Borbon do this as well? Or did he throw it to the infield while kneeling and touching the fence with his feet.?

RedLegSuperStar
03-25-2008, 04:09 PM
Opening Day Roster:

Pitchers (12)
25 David Weathers
29 Mike Stanton
33 Josh Fogg
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
45 Bill Bray
48 Francisco Cordero
51 Jared Burton
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto

Catchers (2)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin

Infielders (6)
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn

Even though I'd like Hairston/Gil over Castro and Roenicke over Stanton. There still maybe a Freel/Hopper trade to clear room on the 40 man for Cueto, Patterson, and Bako. The roster stands at 39.. probably 38 when the Reds either work out a trade or send Capellan back to the Red Sox. The Reds would then either have to send a player through waivers and hope no one claims him or make a trade to clear the final spot.