View Full Version : Catching

03-18-2008, 07:24 PM
I say something on Roto about Reds interested in M. Barrett but he is not good defensively . I think maybe Ramon Hernandez of O's or Molina from Giants but it was said it wasn't a big running league what about just sign Mike Piazza. It wasn't ny choice somebody ele stated his name on Roto.

03-18-2008, 07:37 PM
Pizza is a step back for the Reds at this point. They need younger better options, even just better more controlled options that can bring alittle bat to the line up.

Ross is great defensively if there isnt a running barring down on him, his bat will continue to stink regardess.

03-19-2008, 12:46 AM
What was wrong with Hanigan or Tatium they didn't give them avery good shot if they are Triple A one of them should have a shot.

03-19-2008, 12:53 AM
Ross is good and should be starting all the time, but he's hurt for an unknown amount of time.

Piazza would be signed for 1 year, and it's basically just as insurance. He can still play.
Piazza allows us to get another catcher without giving up talent. That's the most important thing. Would you rather have Bako starting? Because that's what is going to happen.

I'm fine with Hannigan/Tatum. I'd rather have them than Bako, but Bako is Dusty's guy, and I don't see it happening. Hannigan is on the 40 also, so he really should be here instead of Bako.

03-19-2008, 01:36 AM
Tatium is on 40 also but maybe needs a little bit more seasoning at AAA. I would be ok with Piazza if it didn't cost to much but like you said Bako is Bakers man if he is good or not.

03-19-2008, 11:06 AM
I heard this am on XM's, MLB this AM, Reds were looking to add Laird from Texas, in exchange for some of the Reds pitching depth. They explicitly mentioned an excess of Left Handed Relievers.

Red in Atl
03-19-2008, 11:21 AM
What's the scoop on this guy...Humberto Cota...


Nationals just released him. Not horrible stats for a rent a player. Seems like it may be a stretch to find our "Catcher of the Future" this late in ST and in desperation mode.

His one year as a quasi starter looked fairly solid.

Va Red Fan
03-19-2008, 12:08 PM
Cota doesn't look like an answer. Do we really want Nats rejects?

03-19-2008, 12:35 PM
I hate to say it but considering that Texas is basically down to 2 spots in the pen avalaible for 8-10 guiys, i have a hard time beliving its a deal for LH relivers,,,,Texas will ask for the moon becaue they know they have the Reds over a barrel. It will take a decent prospect to get Laird, espically considering the mets also now to have problems at C.

Let me add one more thing...Texas has no need for Freel...

Rounding Third
03-19-2008, 01:57 PM
Cota doesn't look like an answer. Do we really want Nats rejects?

Not unless Leatherpants is our GM again...:thumbdown

03-19-2008, 02:19 PM
I think the Reds should explore all the options but obviously not overpay and find a good fit. It is unclear whether they are looking for a long term solution (thus ruling out Mesoraco), a 2-3 year solution, or a short term stopgap. Regardless, they should certainly but low.

Basically the requirements for this catcher is as follows...

1. Be a substantial upgrade over Ross
2. Need a guy who has enough experience to help our young pitchers.
3. Must not be a liability in the field.
4. Relatively inexpensive trade and salary wise. (obviously Bailey or someone of that caliber as a trading chip is far too much unless it is a top of the line catcher).
5. Offensively a guy who can consistently OPS over .750 would be great as well... a lower OPS would hurt our lineup.

And as far as a trading partner, obviously we need to find either a team that is unloading (Orioles, Giants) or a team that has a stack of catchers (Nationals, Jays, Rangers, Indians, Mariners, Angels, etc.)

As far as what we'd give up, unless it was an exceptional player, it would seem that prospect wise the best players on the table would be Stubbs, Maloney, Wood, Pelland, or Juan Francisco. As far as players on the roster, Freel, Belisle, maybe Hopper if there is interest. We also have far too many guys vying for bullpen spots so a few of them could be on the table as well.

Obviously some targets that should be looked into are:

1. Jeff Clement- Probably would take a heckuva package to snag him.. .867 OPS in AAA last year and he tore up the majors in his brief stretch (1.287 OPS). He is blocked by Johjima, however, so he might be on the market.

2 Ryan Doumit- Might be buying high after he had his best ever 2007, but he could be a solid hitter for us and the price could be right.

3 Chris Iannetta of the Rockies... coming off a weak year and has some insurance issues. Would be a solid pickup if on the cheap.

Most Realistic options:

- Shoppach of the Indians. I could see him as almost an .800 OPS type, decent fielder too.

- Jeff Mathis- Might be a good buy low.. showed promise in 05' and 06' but a rough 07' plus the fact that the Angels have other options makes him a good choice for the Reds.

- Jesus Flores of the Nationals, who is blocked by both Estrada and Lo Duca. Estrada, BTW could be an alright pickup midseason as he is back up this year.

- Ramon Hernandez of the O's.. coming off a bad year and would benefit from GABP. Arguable a better hitter than Barrett with much better fielding. The issue here would be the contract but throwing in Stanton or Ross to offset the salary might be an attractive alternative.

-Curtis Thigpen of the Jays... might be worth a fringe prospect or two but it all depends on how highly the Jays value him. High OBP catchers are always good finds.. He could be similar to Kendall in his prime (say what you want about Kendall but the guy did have 6 years with over a .390 OBP and has a .375 career OPS with solid defense).

-Shawn Riggans.. I saw this name thrown around as an idea and he is a solid option.. could be obtained cheaply and potentially some reward... chances are he's a AAA or AAAA guy but trading a Majewski type for him might be worth it.

Probably not worth messing with:
-Michael Barrett.. while his value is clearly lower than it was, his defensive problems and weak offensive 07' are concerns. He also did worse after his change of scenery to SD. its unclear what plans SD has for him but it is arguable whether he is an upgrade over Ross. DR has outperformed Barrett in both 06' and 07'.. Ross has better defense and has OPSed higher both years. Barrett's salary is another issue as the most noticeable upgrade in my eyes is the payroll....not good.

-Mike Piazza.. his defense was subpar 10 years ago.. probably is horrendous now and his hitting has declined. While he might be an alright bat off the bench, he should not be considered as a catcher anymore. He has his most value with an AL team as a DH but no one is interested. He should be converted to a 1B if he wants to still play. I would not mind Piazza being acquired but not as a catcher.. We must do better.

-Bengie Molina.. mediocre hitter at best and the Giants will probably want some of our better prospects for him.

-Laird... I put him on this list because I'm afraid we'll overpay for him. The Rangers are starting Laird over Salty, sending a message about his value. Also, he struggled as much as Ross last year and is clearly not a substantial upgrade.

There are clearly a handful of decent options but the Reds should not give up anything of value in return unless they are getting a player who is a clear upgrade over Ross.

03-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Johjima is a FA after this season so i would be suprised to see Clement dealt.

Hernandez from the O's would be a nice pick, but the O's have nobody close with Weiters being 2 years away

It really depends on who and What are the Reds willing to move.

If the Reds are willing to move Baily or Votto, Texas and Seatle both might be interested in moving Clement or Salty. But i doubt that will happen.

If the Reds are after a buy low guy most of those guys (probably excluding Doumit) you named should definately be a viavble choice.

Its just most if not all the buy low canidates are really a dynamic change from what the Reds already have.

03-19-2008, 06:21 PM
why not just trade for Jarrod Saltalamacchia of the Rangers if Laird is starting over him anyway??? I think he would be the best option...



03-19-2008, 06:30 PM
why not just trade for Jarrod Saltalamacchia of the Rangers if Laird is starting over him anyway??? I think he would be the best option...



We should just send Freel over and maybe a guy like Pellend. It's not like the Rangers valued Salty so much they traded one of the best hitters in baseball for him. We need to just trade for him... yup... Just trading is easy.

03-19-2008, 06:31 PM
See, I am glad you agree

03-19-2008, 06:32 PM
why not just trade for Jarrod Saltalamacchia of the Rangers if Laird is starting over him anyway??? I think he would be the best option...


Again.To get Salty we'd need to trade Bailey + Freel + another high end prospect. Keep in mind what the Rangers gave up for Salty (Yeah, some dude name Teixiara)

03-19-2008, 06:35 PM
I dont think Freel would be included in any deal with Texas, including a deal for Laird. They have no place to put him, same thing with relievers.

Salt for Bailey+ would probably where it starts...Truthfully if i was the Texas GM i would ask for Salt+ for Bruce but......

03-19-2008, 06:58 PM
Salty for a deal starting with Bruce is just plain crazy

03-19-2008, 09:24 PM
I agree crazy, but considering he was the centerpeice for a multi time allstar, shoot high...Start with Bruce settle for less, just like any other negotiation.

The problem is its very very hard to really make a deal that equals true value for either player. What is Bruce really worth? What is Salty really worth? Premier prospects are hard to gauge what their overall value is.

03-19-2008, 09:44 PM
Salty doesn't have to start at catcher. It's possible he'll play first to save his legs. Just because Laird will start over him at catcher doesn't mean he can't start somewhere else.

03-20-2008, 01:18 AM
The Reds already have 2 Cubs throw aways in Patterson and Hairston.

If we pickup Barrett, who is an ******* by the way, I'm going to shoot myself.

It is inexcusable to go into the season with Ross, Valentin, and Bako as your catching options.

Javy can hit RHP, but is a liability defensively.
Ross had one good season at the plate, but has regressed to his true .210 form.
Paul Bako just frickin sucks.

Our Minor League C talent is piss poor, as well.

03-20-2008, 11:23 PM
One of the biggest problems with the catching situation right now is that no one has a clue when Ross might be available or how solid or durable he will be when is supposedly ready to play. That is nature of these back issues.

Let me offer an example from another area team, the Columbus BlueJackets. Back in October one of their top forwards, Fredrik Modin, went out with the ubiquitous "back spasms". For a couple of weeks he was day to day. Then it became a "week to 10 days" for the next several weeks. Several times he started working his way into shape only to have to stop after a flare up then subsequently start over a week or more later. Finally after 2 months, the umpteenth or so MRI uncovered a cracked vertabra which was by that point "nearly healed". Yet, it was still almost another month before he was game ready.

Can the Reds sit by like this and wait and hope and wonder about Ross (particularly when they were rumored to be looking for an upgrade at catcher anyway?)