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View Full Version : Does it matter that all five of your starters are right-handed?



WMR
03-19-2008, 11:04 PM
Was thinking about this the other day... does this really matter? How much does it matter to not have any lefties in your starting rotation?

RedFanAlways1966
03-19-2008, 11:08 PM
Was thinking about this the other day... does this really matter? How much does it matter to not have any lefties in your starting rotation?

Hate to say it... matters if your team has a series against the REDS and you do not have a LH pitcher to face them.

:p:

pedro
03-20-2008, 12:41 AM
nope

KronoRed
03-20-2008, 01:24 AM
It matters not, just like having 2 or more lefties in a row in your lineup.

princeton
03-20-2008, 08:49 AM
better to have different looks. It messes up some hitters. Reds are a bit too similar, which helps some hitters.

but, it's what we have

Sea Ray
03-20-2008, 12:14 PM
Ideally you'd like to have a junk balling left hander in there like Maloney or Livingston but right now we don't have that. This is not ideal but it is what it is for now.

RedsManRick
03-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I'd love to see some study which suggests the other starters actually benefit from the presence of the other handed starter, or somebody with a different repertoire.

It passes the initial sniff test, but give me the 5 best starters in general. Sure, if I face a very lefty heavy team, I'd like to have a lefty, but just generically having one in the rotation for the sake of it seems like a stretch.

princeton
03-20-2008, 12:38 PM
It passes the initial sniff test, but ...

you're always fighting the force

westofyou
03-20-2008, 12:41 PM
better to have different looks. It messes up some hitters. Reds are a bit too similar, which helps some hitters.

but, it's what we have

Yep, throw a Browning in between a couple of FB pitchers and it helps all of them, toss an Arroyo in there with his odd arm slots and the next day a up and in FB pitcher and watch them feed of the mindset they create in the lineup over those two days.

Throw Josh Fogg in there the day after Arroyo and watch them feast.

rotnoid
03-20-2008, 12:41 PM
It passes the initial sniff test, but give me the 5 best starters in general. Sure, if I face a very lefty heavy team, I'd like to have a lefty, but just generically having one in the rotation for the sake of it seems like a stretch.

That's my general thought as well. Unless of course, your 5 best starters are really bad. In that case give me a least a junk balling righty, if not left hander, to break up the rest of the rotation. I agree that there's probably not much difference, but if your rotation is that bad- try anything!

puca
03-20-2008, 01:06 PM
Diversity would be nice. I do believe it helps to keep the opposing teams off balance with platooning and batting order changes. It would be less of a problem if the bullpen could serve to balance out the starting rotation. This bullpen, at least the likely-to-be-effective part of it, is also decidedly righthanded.

At least, however, 4/5ths of the starting rotation has talent, which is more than the Reds have been able to boast for a number of years. So, while maybe not ideal, it is not something that has me too worried.

paulrichjr
03-20-2008, 02:00 PM
Yep, throw a Browning in between a couple of FB pitchers and it helps all of them, toss an Arroyo in there with his odd arm slots and the next day a up and in FB pitcher and watch them feed of the mindset they create in the lineup over those two days.

Throw Josh Fogg in there the day after Arroyo and watch them feast.

So what you are saying is that Arroyo and Fogg will help this rotation IF they are not back to back...

Just as much as a lefty would?

westofyou
03-20-2008, 02:04 PM
So what you are saying is that Arroyo and Fogg will help this rotation IF they are not back to back...

Just as much as a lefty would?

Fogg.. probably not, but an Arroyo after a flame thrower can be just as effective in messing up a batter as a LH.

RedlegJake
03-20-2008, 02:35 PM
All righties and the opponent sets his lineup for the whole series but thats a minor point. Just go with the best 5 arms - why use a lefty just to have a lefty? Lefthanders give a different look to hitters, too which can be a bit of a help but as WoY pointed out a crafty RH like Arroyo can do the same thing mixed between a couple flamethrowers. I think puca's point that a couple good lefties in the pen can help a lot (force lineup changes in lefty heavy lineups, change hitters adjustments, etc) is valid. A healthy Bray could be huge and if Affeldt is going to help it will be from the pen, the only place he's ever been effective (thank goodness Dusty kyboshed the Jeremy as starter thing early). All in all, though, I'll take the 5 starters the Reds have, with Fogg/Belisle, Bailey and Maloney as depth. After the rotations of last decade who cares if they're a RH bunch? There's some talent there, and some depth - something that really worried me in January.

bucksfan2
03-20-2008, 03:34 PM
I don't think it is that big of an difference. You sure don't want to pitch a lefty who isn't in the top 5 because you feel the need to have a lefty in your rotation. I think that the righty righty, lefty lefty matchups have been exagerated over the past few years. You play the best hitter no matter what and you pitch the best pitcher.

princeton
03-20-2008, 03:45 PM
let's say that the only guy that you have to replace Fogg is a slightly less effective (if possible) lefty. He might improve your actual team winning percentage by messing the opposition when it faces the next pitcher in your rotation, or he might be more effective than Fogg at following Arroyo.

if I'm not mistaken, it was popular in the '30's and '40's to spot start quite often throughout the rotation, and the goal was sometimes to match up with other team (maybe use a lefty against a lefty lineup), but also to follow one pitcher with a guy that gave a very different look. Spot starting is now really out, being replaced with fixed rotations. and there's less attention to having different looks.

with 6 man rotations and 12 man staffs, managers might find value in spot starting for different looks and different matchups.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2008, 03:47 PM
Like others have said, I think it would be smart to separate Harang and Arroyo with a flame thrower. Harang-Volquez-Arroyo-Cueto is how I would do it.

Chip R
03-20-2008, 03:48 PM
I think if we're that concerned about having a lefty in the rotation, Jimmy Anderson and Eric Milton are probably available.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2008, 03:51 PM
Maybe we can trade Juan Castro to the Mets for Johan Santana (LH pitcher), David Wright (RH power bat), Jose Reyes (SS and leadoff hitter), and Billy Wagner (bullpen help) and solve all our problems?

15fan
03-20-2008, 04:09 PM
better to have different looks. It messes up some hitters. Reds are a bit too similar, which helps some hitters.

but, it's what we have

With each passing day, I become more of a fan of just saying to heck with a starting rotation and going with a 12 man bullpen.

With arms like Harang & Arroyo, sometimes you start them every 5th day. Other times, let them sit until the 3rd or 4th inning, then have 'em pitch through the 9th.

Edit: And if you've got a really good closer, why not run him out there a couple of days in a row to start the game against the opponent's top of the lineup? Match up your best pitchers against their best hitters as often as possible.

If you're going to keep the other team guessing, then by (insert deity of choice her), really keep them guessing.

princeton
03-20-2008, 04:19 PM
With each passing day, I become more of a fan of just saying to heck with a starting rotation and going with a 12 man bullpen.

With arms like Harang & Arroyo, sometimes you start them every 5th day. Other times, let them sit until the 3rd or 4th inning, then have 'em pitch through the 9th.

Edit: And if you've got a really good closer, why not run him out there a couple of days in a row to start the game against the opponent's top of the lineup? Match up your best pitchers against their best hitters as often as possible.

If you're going to keep the other team guessing, then by (insert deity of choice her), really keep them guessing.

We're probably heading that way, but it will decrease the innings of your best starters, which seems counterproductive. Spot starting gets around it. Some guys will be on five man schedules, and others will pitch multiple roles

12 man bullpen works great in Little League. Your best guys can only pitch two innings anyway, so I match against the opposing team's meat when possible. I've always been tempted to set the lineup so that my worst hitters face their best pitchers, to eat up their outs, but haven't had the heart... I was one of those worst hitters once.

bucksfan2
03-20-2008, 04:29 PM
We're probably heading that way, but it will decrease the innings of your best starters, which seems counterproductive. Spot starting gets around it. Some guys will be on five man schedules, and others will pitch multiple roles

12 man bullpen works great in Little League. Your best guys can only pitch two innings anyway, so I match against the opposing team's meat when possible. I've always been tempted to set the lineup so that my worst hitters face their best pitchers, to eat up their outs, but haven't had the heart... I was one of those worst hitters once.

Never will happen. The Union won't let something like that happen.

Reds1
03-20-2008, 04:46 PM
I think against certain teams it makes a diff, but one thing is we look like we'll have 3 lefties so we'll be able to match up later in games if necessary. Who knows though. So many bodies I'm not sure who is gonig to make this club.

princeton
03-20-2008, 04:59 PM
Union won't let something like that happen.



:confused:

15fan
03-20-2008, 05:36 PM
haven't had the heart... I was one of those worst hitters once.

One year, I went 1-for-the-season.

Drew a lot of walks, though.

Thus, I was down with OBP 2 decades before it was en vogue. :cool:

pahster
03-20-2008, 05:40 PM
One year, I went 1-for-the-season.

Drew a lot of walks, though.

Thus, I was down with OBP 2 decades before it was en vogue. :cool:

That was me in high school at the varsity level. Lots of walks, hit by pitches, and strikeouts. Two or three hits. :cool:

*BaseClogger*
03-20-2008, 08:51 PM
With each passing day, I become more of a fan of just saying to heck with a starting rotation and going with a 12 man bullpen.

With arms like Harang & Arroyo, sometimes you start them every 5th day. Other times, let them sit until the 3rd or 4th inning, then have 'em pitch through the 9th.

Edit: And if you've got a really good closer, why not run him out there a couple of days in a row to start the game against the opponent's top of the lineup? Match up your best pitchers against their best hitters as often as possible.

If you're going to keep the other team guessing, then by (insert deity of choice her), really keep them guessing.

haha... and M2 thought my four man rotation was giving the bullpen too many innings :)