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Kc61
03-20-2008, 12:22 PM
The Reds would seem a good candidate for spring trades. There are some needs and some surpluses.

Needs --

Righty power bat off the bench

Catcher

Possibly a fifth starter, assuming team isn't happy with Belisle/Fogg and wants a lefty in rotation.

Possibly a backup shortstop if team doesn't think Castro is healthy/able enough to play while Gonzo is recovering. (Obviously, Keppinger will get most of the playing time.)

Surpluses --

Scrappy utility players like Freel, Keppinger, Hopper, etc.

Bullpen (Reds have quantity although not so much quality)

Minor league prospects.


And then there is always the possibilty that a trade for a meaningful pitcher, like a Blanton, is still in the works.

Joseph
03-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Aside from a catcher, I don't know if the Reds will do any dealing. I think we'll see a numbers game play out, guys with options will have them used, while guys without them will make the team.

The only real crunch is getting a few NRI on the 40 man. THAT could provide some interesting scenarios for some 'bubble' players.

Kc61
03-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Reds really could use another right handed bat. The team remains susceptible to lefty pitching. If the bench is Hopper, Castro, Valentin, and Hatteberg, there is room for one more utility player. Someone who can hit lefties would be a big help.

Joseph
03-20-2008, 12:31 PM
I don't disagree, I just don't know that WK will do it.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2008, 12:32 PM
If the Reds want a lefty starter I'd like to see them go after J.P. Howell from the Rays. He's got good stuff and is ready to breakout at anytime IMO, and the Reds can afford to deal him with the surplus of pitching they have. Ryan Freel (with the Reds paying half his salary) or Norris Hopper plus Chris Valaika or Sam Lecure for Howell could probably get it done.

MikeS21
03-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Let me put it this way ... don't expect any kind of blockbuster trade. I think you would mightily disappointed in the return talent you would get in any trade.

As you look at some of the surplus players on this team, ie. Freel, Hopper, Hairston, Gil, Castro, Hattiesburg, Mercker, etc., the thing to remember is that every GM in baseball knows the Reds have them, and that the Reds would like to unload them. When you have guys like Bruce and Votto knocking at the door, it makes spare parts of the current players. And that drives down offers.

Just consider Hattiesburg. You would think that someone would need a veteran guy who's not too shabby off the bench and filling in at 1B. But the offers WK has been getting for him have been rock bottom because every GM knows that WK wants to trade Hattiesburg to clear room for Votto. Here's the real rub. The better Votto does, the drier the offers on Hattiesburg get because the better Votto gets, the more pressure is put on WK to trade him.

The time to trade Freel was LAST March. He was coming off a decent 2006 season and you had a huge question mark (Josh Hamilton) replacing him. His trade value was up. Now, everyone and their brother know that Freel, Hopper, and Patterson are only clogging up the pipeline in front of Jay Bruce. I can see it happening right now. Jay Bruce will go to Lousiville and start putting up big numbers. RedsZone and talk radio will be screaming for Bruce to be called up. WK makes calls to unload his excess OF's, and he'll find that as Jay Bruce's OPS goes up, the trade value of Freel, Hopper, and Patterson will drop faster than Hillary Clinton changes hair styles. It won't matter if Freel has an OBP of .390, teams will lowball Krivsky because they know he's under pressure to make room for Bruce.

Don't overestimate the trade value of all these "surplus" guys, because it is certain no other GM in baseball is.

RedlegJake
03-20-2008, 01:44 PM
But, Mike - every GM in baseball is under the same gun with guys who are "surplus" and other guys pushing them out the door, and THEIR extra players are down in value, too. That's where the spring deals are, imo, you look at other teams with guys in the same sitch and if someone fits then you can deal from an equal stance. You're right though, its the reason there aren;t that many late ST blockbusters. Most deals now will be of the surplus for surplus variety or the Salmon PTBNL type so I don't expect any big blockbusters - I do expect a couple deals to get done but unlikely to be great shakes in the scheme of things unless K finds an under rated gem again.

Benihana
03-20-2008, 01:56 PM
The Reds would seem a good candidate for spring trades. There are some needs and some surpluses.

Needs --

Righty power bat off the bench

Catcher

Possibly a fifth starter, assuming team isn't happy with Belisle/Fogg and wants a lefty in rotation.

Possibly a backup shortstop if team doesn't think Castro is healthy/able enough to play while Gonzo is recovering. (Obviously, Keppinger will get most of the playing time.)

Surpluses --

Scrappy utility players like Freel, Keppinger, Hopper, etc.

Bullpen (Reds have quantity although not so much quality)

Minor league prospects.


And then there is always the possibilty that a trade for a meaningful pitcher, like a Blanton, is still in the works.

Here are some available targets that I would consider:

1. Righty power bat off the bench Andy Marte CLE
2. Catcher Taylor Teagarden TEX, Mike Napoli LAA, Kenji Johjima SEA, Ramon Hernandez BAL
3. Possible 5th/Lefty Starter Chris Capuano MIL
4. Backup SS Juan Uribe CHW

If the Reds could acquire even two of the names from above, I would be very happy. All of them are very available, and ready to be had.

bucksfan2
03-20-2008, 02:27 PM
Here are some available targets that I would consider:

1. Righty power bat off the bench Andy Marte CLE
2. Catcher Taylor Teagarden TEX, Mike Napoli LAA, Kenji Johjima SEA, Ramon Hernandez BAL
3. Possible 5th/Lefty Starter Chris Capuano MIL
4. Backup SS Juan Uribe CHW

If the Reds could acquire even two of the names from above, I would be very happy. All of them are very available, and ready to be had.

I would really like to see the reds go after Marte. Big time talent but an underperformer. Kind of sounds like a similar Red that the reds plucked from the Indians org. I don't like the idea of getting Capuano unless its for nothing or cash. Trading for a catcher may be a little more difficult that many think. Baseball knows the reds are looking for a catcher and will demand more.

I think one thing with Krivsky is that he is always trying to make his team better. Most trades that he has made no one saw coming. I think Freel is all but gone but the return is a big question as well as how much money they have to eat.

OnBaseMachine
03-20-2008, 02:29 PM
That big RH power bat could be Adam Rosales. But I do like the idea of trying to acquire Andy Marte too.

fearofpopvol1
03-20-2008, 02:48 PM
Let me put it this way ... don't expect any kind of blockbuster trade. I think you would mightily disappointed in the return talent you would get in any trade.

As you look at some of the surplus players on this team, ie. Freel, Hopper, Hairston, Gil, Castro, Hattiesburg, Mercker, etc., the thing to remember is that every GM in baseball knows the Reds have them, and that the Reds would like to unload them. When you have guys like Bruce and Votto knocking at the door, it makes spare parts of the current players. And that drives down offers.

Just consider Hattiesburg. You would think that someone would need a veteran guy who's not too shabby off the bench and filling in at 1B. But the offers WK has been getting for him have been rock bottom because every GM knows that WK wants to trade Hattiesburg to clear room for Votto. Here's the real rub. The better Votto does, the drier the offers on Hattiesburg get because the better Votto gets, the more pressure is put on WK to trade him.

The time to trade Freel was LAST March. He was coming off a decent 2006 season and you had a huge question mark (Josh Hamilton) replacing him. His trade value was up. Now, everyone and their brother know that Freel, Hopper, and Patterson are only clogging up the pipeline in front of Jay Bruce. I can see it happening right now. Jay Bruce will go to Lousiville and start putting up big numbers. RedsZone and talk radio will be screaming for Bruce to be called up. WK makes calls to unload his excess OF's, and he'll find that as Jay Bruce's OPS goes up, the trade value of Freel, Hopper, and Patterson will drop faster than Hillary Clinton changes hair styles. It won't matter if Freel has an OBP of .390, teams will lowball Krivsky because they know he's under pressure to make room for Bruce.

Don't overestimate the trade value of all these "surplus" guys, because it is certain no other GM in baseball is.

I think this can be a factor, but it's not as prevalent in the case of the Reds. The thing is, I don't think the spare parts the Reds have are worth much upside. They are all "what you see is what you get" kind of players. Hatte is servicable, but old. Freel is an injury waiting to happen and has a semi-expensive contract now. Hopper is pretty 1-dimensional. I think if the Reds wanted to put Keppinger out there, he might be someone that could fetch something.

redsmetz
03-20-2008, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't be surprised by a trade prior to the opening of the season and agree it won't be a "blockbuster". I think, as some have noted, our surplus are not guys who will command a premium, but if we can turn some of them into halfway decent prospects (not studs, mind you), then I see that as a plus.

Highlifeman21
03-20-2008, 08:43 PM
Reds really could use another right handed bat. The team remains susceptible to lefty pitching. If the bench is Hopper, Castro, Valentin, and Hatteberg, there is room for one more utility player. Someone who can hit lefties would be a big help.

The Reds have continued to need another RHB for going on 3 years now, but have done absolutely nothing to address the need.

So, either the Reds don't feel that they need said RHB, or they haven't been able to find a RHB in their proverbial price range (aka what they'd have to dish out in money to pay the player, combined with what they'd have to give up to obtain the player).

Wayne's a dumpster diver. He's trying to order top shelf liquor while rolling pennies to pay for gas.

jojo
03-20-2008, 09:09 PM
Let me put it this way ... don't expect any kind of blockbuster trade. I think you would mightily disappointed in the return talent you would get in any trade.

As you look at some of the surplus players on this team, ie. Freel, Hopper, Hairston, Gil, Castro, Hattiesburg, Mercker, etc., the thing to remember is that every GM in baseball knows the Reds have them, and that the Reds would like to unload them. When you have guys like Bruce and Votto knocking at the door, it makes spare parts of the current players. And that drives down offers.

Just consider Hattiesburg. You would think that someone would need a veteran guy who's not too shabby off the bench and filling in at 1B. But the offers WK has been getting for him have been rock bottom because every GM knows that WK wants to trade Hattiesburg to clear room for Votto. Here's the real rub. The better Votto does, the drier the offers on Hattiesburg get because the better Votto gets, the more pressure is put on WK to trade him.

The time to trade Freel was LAST March. He was coming off a decent 2006 season and you had a huge question mark (Josh Hamilton) replacing him. His trade value was up. Now, everyone and their brother know that Freel, Hopper, and Patterson are only clogging up the pipeline in front of Jay Bruce. I can see it happening right now. Jay Bruce will go to Lousiville and start putting up big numbers. RedsZone and talk radio will be screaming for Bruce to be called up. WK makes calls to unload his excess OF's, and he'll find that as Jay Bruce's OPS goes up, the trade value of Freel, Hopper, and Patterson will drop faster than Hillary Clinton changes hair styles. It won't matter if Freel has an OBP of .390, teams will lowball Krivsky because they know he's under pressure to make room for Bruce.

Don't overestimate the trade value of all these "surplus" guys, because it is certain no other GM in baseball is.

I'm not sure how much lower the trade values can drop with these guys.

It's great to think positive as some have earlier in the thread but Freel isn't going to be a principal in a deal for a guy like Howell. When trades hinge upon opposing GMs being drunk, well, your trade value is hitting bottom already.

Vada Pinson Fan
03-20-2008, 10:11 PM
The Reds would seem a good candidate for spring trades. There are some needs and some surpluses.

Needs --

Righty power bat off the bench

Catcher

Possibly a fifth starter, assuming team isn't happy with Belisle/Fogg and wants a lefty in rotation.

Possibly a backup shortstop if team doesn't think Castro is healthy/able enough to play while Gonzo is recovering. (Obviously, Keppinger will get most of the playing time.)

Surpluses --

Scrappy utility players like Freel, Keppinger, Hopper, etc.

Bullpen (Reds have quantity although not so much quality)

Minor league prospects.


And then there is always the possibilty that a trade for a meaningful pitcher, like a Blanton, is still in the works.

I can see WK trying to acquire Michael Barrett for Ryan Freel because of Jim Edmonds and his current injury (strained calf already has cost him 2 weeks of ST) plus Freel's multi-positions make this a fair trade. I'd rather have the Padres Josh Bard but San Diego won't do that.

Doubtful that a trade for Blanton is still in the works b/c it's been reported that Beane wanted Cueto for Blanton and it's very doubtful, IMO, that Beane comes off of that demand unless he says to Krivsky- OK then, I'll take Volquez. :laugh::laugh::thumbdown

REDREAD
03-21-2008, 08:42 AM
Just consider Hattiesburg. You would think that someone would need a veteran guy who's not too shabby off the bench and filling in at 1B. But the offers WK has been getting for him have been rock bottom because every GM knows that WK wants to trade Hattiesburg to clear room for Votto. Here's the real rub. The better Votto does, the drier the offers on Hattiesburg get because the better Votto gets, the more pressure is put on WK to trade him.

I think the problem is that Hat is just not that well thought of. He's old, can only play 1b.. Remember, if Wayne didn't sign him 2 years ago, he would've been out of baseball. Why would anyone give up anything of value to get a guy like Hat? If they needed an old pinch hitter, there's always plenty of them available during the offseason.




The time to trade Freel was LAST March. He was coming off a decent 2006 season and you had a huge question mark (Josh Hamilton) replacing him. His trade value was up.


As soon as Wayne signed Freel to that absurd contract (for a utility guy), I knew we were stuck with him. I think it has little to do with the Reds' depth driving his price down. I can agree with your general philosphy that teams will lowball a backup player vs a starting player, but I think Freel's salary/fragility makes him hard to move. Any team desperate for a OF can call up Lofton as a stopgap.. let's face it, Freel is only a stop gap. Freel is also a guy that you want to play in the infield only if you absolutely have to. No contender would want to give Freel a lot of time in the infield, and a rebuilding team that might be willing to take the hit on the infield defense won't want to pay his salary to be stopgap at 3b or 2b.







Don't overestimate the trade value of all these "surplus" guys, because it is certain no other GM in baseball is.

Let's face it, the list of surplus guys isn't exactly the all star roster. Every guy on that list has warts. If those guys were on other teams, I'm sure very few (if any) people on this board would be clamoring for the Reds to pick them up.