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OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 01:02 AM
Belisle sidelined with sore right forearm
Competing for rotation spot, right-hander's prognosis uncertain
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Reds starting pitcher Matt Belisle has been shut down from throwing because of a sore right forearm, the Reds announced on Thursday.

How did Belisle get hurt?

"He was overpracticing his changeup," manager Dusty Baker said.

Baker did not know how long Belisle would be out of action. He hasn't pitched in a game since last Friday against the Yankees.

"We skipped him a turn and we'll see," Baker said. "From there, it's getting a little tougher to get the endurance back. That kind of set him backwards."

Belisle's injury could end up cementing the makeup of the Reds' rotation with just over a week left in camp. With Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez closing in on earning two of the three open spots, one spot seemed left for battle among Belisle, Josh Fogg and Homer Bailey.

Of the three candidates, Fogg has pitched best in camp. Belisle and Bailey have often struggled.

Belisle is 2-0 with a 9.00 ERA in 10 innings over four starts with 16 hits allowed. He has walked five with only three strikeouts.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080320&content_id=2448087&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Jpup
03-21-2008, 01:45 AM
well, that concludes the questions about who will be in the rotation. I guess Belisle will get a nice stint on the DL.

Redhook
03-21-2008, 06:43 AM
What a turn of a events. Belisle was slated to the be the Reds #3 starter a month ago and now it appears he won't make the top 5. This is good news. Not for Belisle, but for Reds fans. It means the Reds actually have some quality in the their top 5.

I imagine Belisle will get his fair share at starting this year. I'm happy he won't be relied upon to be a miscast #3.

RedlegJake
03-21-2008, 07:45 AM
I just hope this is nothing that will linger. The Reds will need Matt Belisle this year whether he steps into the rotation at some point or as the primary long relief guy -he is still an important part of this staff.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 08:16 AM
Sore forearms are usually not good things to have. Hopefully it is just soreness.

REDREAD
03-21-2008, 08:32 AM
Hopefully, it is just a case of Belisle just being sore, or the Reds wanting to play number games with the roster.
IIRC, Belisle's big problems eariler in his career were his back.. although I'm not 100% positive. I'd be a lot more worried if his back was flaring up again.

jojo
03-21-2008, 08:38 AM
Eat more spinach Matt.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 09:06 AM
Hopefully, it is just a case of Belisle just being sore, or the Reds wanting to play number games with the roster.
IIRC, Belisle's big problems eariler in his career were his back.. although I'm not 100% positive. I'd be a lot more worried if his back was flaring up again.

Maybe, but sore forearms are often an early warning symptom of elbow problems.


Major League Pitchers Should Fear “Forearm Tightness” and Tommy John Surgery
The Healthy Skeptic
Written by Sal Marinello

If a pitcher on your favorite major league team suffers from “forearm tightness” you have a reason to worry, as over the past couple of seasons this innocuous sounding “boo-boo” has wound up being an indicator of a major injury that can necessitate Tommy John surgery.

For whatever reason, it seems that over the past few years “forearm tightness” has become an occurrence of dire portent for pitchers in the major league. In many cases this innocent sounding “condition” has become a sign that severe elbow and/or shoulder trouble is on the horizon for hurlers.

Most recently one of the New York Yankees’ most recent busts – right-hander Carl Pavano – was sidelined by forearm tightness, which we now know was due to elbow ligament damage. Pavano’s career is probably over as he is about to undergo Tommy John surgery.

For all of you who may not be familiar with Tommy John, he was a pitcher who plied his trade quite successfully for 26 years. During the 1974 season – his 12th - John’s arm was “dead;” the description of a symptom suffered by pitchers which is usually due to a strained medial collateral ligament (MCL) of the elbow.

John’s MCL had actually ruptured.

Thanks to John’s prodding, surgeon Dr. Frank Jobe devised a procedure in which a ligament from the forearm of the non-injured arm is taken and transplanted in the place of the blown out ligament. Ligaments from cadavers have been used, although more commonly this ligament comes from the leg of the patient.

Anyway, this surgery gave John a second life, and after the surgery he actually won 164 games from 1976-1989, more games than he won during the first half of his career. Since this revolutionary moment in sports medicine history baseball players at all levels of the game have had their careers saved by this surgery. There are indications that a ball player’s arm actually becomes stronger as a result of having Tommy John surgery.


The “dead arm” syndrome experienced by pitchers in the old days – and that doomed careers - seems to have been replaced by “forearm tightness” in current day pitchers. Frankly, I think most of the injuries that are plaguing pitchers these days can be attributed to their off-field preparation, and not from throwing the baseball. However, that is a different argument for a different day.

If you go back over the past several seasons, forearm tightness is the precursor to a severe elbow ligament injury. In September of 2005 Atlanta Brave pitcher Mike Hampton experienced tightness in his left forearm, which wound up being an elbow problem that necessitated Tommy John surgery.


After missing all of 2006, Hampton’s left forearm starting aching, and ultimately his flexor tendon went bye-bye and the southpaw has undergone his second T.J. procedure. Smart money says he’s done.

Journeyman reliever Tom Gordon – most recently of the Phillies suffered from forearm problems last season and this year has had both elbow and shoulder problems. Gordon was recently diagnosed with a tear in his rotator cuff and a date for his return to baseball has yet to be determined.

Cincinnati Reds bench player outfielder Chris Denorfia – who has since been traded to Oakland - suffered a torn ligament in his throwing elbow and was initially reported as having a strained right forearm. He got his T.J. job this spring.

Chicago Cub former young stud starting pitcher Mark Prior has suffered from a variety of injuries since his incredible rookie season, including forearm and elbow stiffness that was reported back in spring training of 2004. Prior’s injury woes began with a bad Achilles and his trip through the Disabled List started with this injury to his lower leg. Since then he’s served as a living example of the old song, “The Ankle Bone is Connected to the Shin Bone,” as the injury train has made the journey from his shin to his shoulder.


Yankee farm hand Humberto Sanchez reported tightness in his right forearm in February and underwent his TJ-ectomy on his elbow in April.

You should get the idea by now. Forearm tightness is something to be scared of if you are a major league baseball player.


The latest on the “Forearm Tightness Watch” are Seattle Mariners’ 21-year old phenom Felix Hernandez, Arizona Diamondbacks’ over-the-hiller Randy Johnson, Boston Red Sox hurler Jon Lester (also recovering from cancer), Milwaukee pitcher Greg Aquino and the Florida Marlins' top pick in 2006 Brett Sinkbeil . If you’re a Mariners fan you should be especially worried.

http://www.healthandfitnessadvice.com/the-healthy-skeptic/major-league-pitchers-should-fear-forearm-tightness.html

Crosley68
03-21-2008, 09:27 AM
Ominous.........I have that sinking feeling.

RedsManRick
03-21-2008, 09:33 AM
Edinson, Josh, Johnny, welcome to the rotation.

Chip R
03-21-2008, 09:55 AM
Another Dusty victim. ;)

jojo
03-21-2008, 10:07 AM
Another Dusty victim. ;)

This has my vote for post of the day....

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/score010.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

KronoRed
03-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Another Dusty victim. ;)

First one of the year! who has Belisle in the pool? :D

Matt700wlw
03-21-2008, 02:05 PM
Switch hands, Matt.... :p:

Spring~Fields
03-21-2008, 02:50 PM
I can't help but wonder if a year in AAA would have helped Belisle in his starting aspirations. I hope that his arm is alright.

Aronchis
03-21-2008, 03:01 PM
I wonder how long this has been bothering Matt? Definitely not a good sign. Probably explains his lack of command this spring. Wonder if he came into ST with it and that is why Fogg was signed? Ah, those sneaky Reds.

I think Travis Wood had this problem last year, though he seemed to get out of it without any major damage.

TRF
03-21-2008, 03:18 PM
oh joy. Josh freaking Fogg.

I loathe the Josh Fogg signing ©

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 04:58 PM
oh joy. Josh freaking Fogg.

I loathe the Josh Fogg signing

Yep. I can't stand watching Josh Fogg pitch. It feels like an automatic loss everytime he is out there. Hurry back Matt. Either that or hope Homer puts it together quickly or Matt Maloney dominates AAA and forces the Reds to call him up.

jojo
03-21-2008, 05:46 PM
Yep. I can't stand watching Josh Fogg pitch. It feels like an automatic loss everytime he is out there. Hurry back Matt. Either that or hope Homer puts it together quickly or Matt Maloney dominates AAA and forces the Reds to call him up.

Maloney is Josh Fogg's left-handed twin.

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 05:55 PM
Maloney is Josh Fogg's left-handed twin.

Josh Fogg wishes he had Matt Maloney's minor league strikeout rate.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 06:27 PM
Josh Fogg wishes he had Matt Maloney's minor league strikeout rate.

Matt Maloney is a little overrated on this board.

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Matt Maloney is a little overrated on this board.

How so?

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 07:25 PM
How so?

I think many on here rush to pump up certain players, more so with Wayne acquisitions. And this really isn't just directed at you or even at Maloney.

I just watch the treatment that some of the new Krivsky "diamonds in the rough" get (such as Burton, Maloney, Smit, the potential guy from KC) and I just think many want to believe that the new guy will be the next Brandon Phillips or Josh Hamilton success story, when in actuality the odds are slim that Wayne will have an acquisition like those guys ever again.

Three months ago Burton was the savior, the knight on the white horse coming to take over the 8th inning from Weathers after this season and then inheriting the closer spot from Cordero when he is done in Cincy. Now he is an afterthought.

The year before, David Ross was the Krivsky flavor of the month, getting hyped as the steal of the century. Now, not so much.

I'll temper my enthusiasm for Maloney until I see him produce at the major league level. I am skeptical of prospects when all you need to do to acquire them is trade Kyle Lohse.

cincrazy
03-21-2008, 07:28 PM
I think many on here rush to pump up certain players, more so with Wayne acquisitions. And this really isn't just directed at you or even at Maloney.

I just watch the treatment that some of the new Krivsky "diamonds in the rough" get (such as Burton, Maloney, Smit, the potential guy from KC) and I just think many want to believe that the new guy will be the next Brandon Phillips or Josh Hamilton success story, when in actuality the odds are slim that Wayne will have an acquisition like those guys ever again.

Three months ago Burton was the savior, the knight on the white horse coming to take over the 8th inning from Weathers after this season and then inheriting the closer spot from Cordero when he is done in Cincy. Now he is an afterthought.

The year before, David Ross was the Krivsky flavor of the month, getting hyped as the steal of the century. Now, not so much.

I'll temper my enthusiasm for Maloney until I see him produce at the major league level. I am skeptical of prospects when all you need to do to acquire them is trade Kyle Lohse.

Three or four bad spring training performances surely doesn't make Jared Burton an afterthought. Perhaps he's not as good as he pitched last year, but he was a good pickup.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 07:32 PM
Three or four bad spring training performances surely doesn't make Jared Burton an afterthought. Perhaps he's not as good as he pitched last year, but he was a good pickup.

I think he's pitched himself out of late inning consideration for the time being. Or at least should have, but maybe got a reprieve because of the shaky state of the bullpen.

"Good pickup" will be determined when we see him in action this season. If he goes all Coffey on us this year, I think that term will be a misnomer.

Aronchis
03-21-2008, 07:55 PM
The Reds bullpen looks like a disaster in waiting right now. Though they do have some pieces in AAA that may patch it up, but that is later on in the year. In April, it could be bombs away.

jojo
03-21-2008, 07:57 PM
Josh Fogg wishes he had Matt Maloney's minor league strikeout rate.

Baseball cube isn't the last word on pitcher development..... :cool:

Maloney looks to be a back end guy-he's got below average velocity but his command and ability to toss 3-4 average pitches makes him a formidable minor league arm. His mediocre stuff isn't likely to translate in the majors though.

In other words, he's sprinting full bore into a wall.....

Redhook
03-21-2008, 08:05 PM
Just want to remind everyone it could be much, much worse than having Fogg as a #5 starter. This rotation is light years ahead of any other Reds rotation during this millenium. You could add most of the '90 to that as well.

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 08:22 PM
88-91 mph fastball for a lefty is pretty good. He also mixes in a plus changeup and a good curveball. I don't think anyone here expects him to be an ace but he could be a solid innings eating #4 starter. With flame throwers like Bailey, Cueto, and Volquez, he should fit in fine.

jojo
03-21-2008, 08:23 PM
88-91 mph fastball for a lefty is pretty good. He also mixes in a plus changeup and a good curveball. I don't think anyone here expects him to be an ace but he could be a solid innings eating #4 starter. With flame throwers like Bailey, Cueto, and Volquez, he should fit in fine.

Everybody looks better when you arbitrarily add 3-4 mph and give them a 'plus" pitch. Ignoring the grade inflation, he's greatly different than being a left-handed Fogg how?

He's got cheap #5 written all over him.

OnBaseMachine
03-21-2008, 08:27 PM
Well, first of all Josh Fogg is not what you would call a solid innings eating #4 starter. Fogg is a bad pitcher.

I see Maloney being a 185-200 inning pitcher who gives you an ERA around 4.50 with a solid K/9.

SMcGavin
03-21-2008, 08:29 PM
That's greatly different than being a left-handed Fogg how?

He's got cheap #5 written all over him.

Maybe so, but Fogg and Maloney both completed AA at the same age and Maloney's K rate is far superior. So until Maloney actually shows us that he can't get out higher level hitters I will give him more credit than being the "left-handed twin" of Josh Fogg.

jojo
03-21-2008, 08:43 PM
Maybe so, but Fogg and Maloney both completed AA at the same age and Maloney's K rate is far superior. So until Maloney actually shows us that he can't get out higher level hitters I will give him more credit than being the "left-handed twin" of Josh Fogg.

Till he actually acquires some stuff worth talking about, ill view his minor league numbers as a curiosity.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 08:44 PM
Just want to remind everyone it could be much, much worse than having Fogg as a #5 starter. This rotation is light years ahead of any other Reds rotation during this millenium. You could add most of the '90 to that as well.

Maybe potential wise, but Cueto and Volquez are still young.

Not complaining, but while the long-term health of the rotation is in a good place I think we could be in for some ups and downs after the top 2.

RedlegJake
03-21-2008, 09:42 PM
Maybe potential wise, but Cueto and Volquez are still young.

Not complaining, but while the long-term health of the rotation is in a good place I think we could be in for some ups and downs after the top 2.

Still, edabbs, isn't it fun at least to have potential to root for? And yes, I too think there are going to be ups and downs with the kids this year. I can live with that - it beats nothing but downs after the top 2 that we've lived with for so long now.

edabbs44
03-21-2008, 09:59 PM
Still, edabbs, isn't it fun at least to have potential to root for? And yes, I too think there are going to be ups and downs with the kids this year. I can live with that - it beats nothing but downs after the top 2 that we've lived with for so long now.

Hell yeah. This rotation is going to be a lot of fun to watch grow. We haven't seen talent like this in a long time.