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View Full Version : Majewski and Coutlangus option to AAA



mth123
03-22-2008, 10:05 AM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Hooray!!

pahster
03-22-2008, 10:07 AM
Well what am I supposed to do with my authentic Majewski jersey now?

mth123
03-22-2008, 10:08 AM
Well what am I supposed to do with my authentic Majewski jersey now?

With the beatings stopping for now, the value should stop dropping.

mth123
03-22-2008, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by Hal McCoy in the Dayton Dailey News

ďThey told me they brought too many guys (pitchers) into camp and that didnít give me much of an opportunity,Ē said Majewski. ďI didnít pitch much and thatís why I was frustrated. Same old stuff - I didnít know exactly what they wanted me to do..."



Here's a hint Gary, get people out.

Cyclone792
03-22-2008, 10:19 AM
I might have to crack open a celebratory beer today with the news that Majewski is heading to Louisville!

edabbs44
03-22-2008, 10:20 AM
I might have to crack open a celebratory beer today with the news that Majewski is heading to Louisville!

Now you can shift your anger towards some of the other contenders for the bullpen, such as Stanton, Mercker, Lincoln and Burton.


It would appear the bullpen is nearly set: Closer Francisco Cordero, RHP David Weathers, LHP Mike Stanton, LHP Jeremy Affeldt, LHP Kent Mercker, LHP Bill Bray, RHP Todd Coffey, RHP Jared Burton (or RHP Edinson Volquez is they strangely decided to keep Homer Bailey as the No. 5 starters, which shouldnít happen). And Mike Lincoln, with his 95 miles an hour fastball is hanging in there.

It looks as if the main decisions are whether to keep Mercker or Bray as a third lefthander because Stanton and his $3 million contract are locked in. And the last righthanded spot is between Coffey (perfect all spring), Burton (a struggler and straggler) and Lincoln - out of baseball for three years after TWO Tommy John surgeries, but back throwing harder than ever.

Blitz Dorsey
03-22-2008, 10:26 AM
Majewski is actually *****ing at the move and blaming the Reds? That is too much. Hey Gary, guess what, this wasn't all based on THIS SPRING. This was also based on you absolutely sucking for the last two years. Now get down to Louisville, work hard and maybe we'll see you back.

Unassisted
03-22-2008, 10:29 AM
Well what am I supposed to do with my authentic Majewski jersey now?Hang it in the closet next to the Saarloos jersey?

Big Klu
03-22-2008, 10:36 AM
For the Reds' sake and for his own, Gary Majewski really needs to be traded. He needs a change of scenery. Maybe he can go somewhere else and become an effective pitcher (and maybe not), but it isn't going to happen for him here.

jojo
03-22-2008, 10:40 AM
He needs a change of scenery.

I agree 110%. Maybe Chicago or Milwaukee?

Kc61
03-22-2008, 10:41 AM
I don't quite get McCoy's view on the bullpen. I would think that Cordero, Burton (despite bad spring), Weathers, Affeldt, Bray are locks. That leaves Stanton, Mercker, and Coffey for two spots. If Reds feel they need to keep Stanton due to contract, one open spot remains for Mercker or Coffey. Since 4 lefties is ridiculous, I'd expect Coffey to get the spot and Mercker be let go.

jojo
03-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Now you can shift your anger towards some of the other contenders for the bullpen, such as Stanton, Mercker, Lincoln and Burton.

Way to kill the mood.... :cool:

westofyou
03-22-2008, 10:43 AM
The team just made a big drop in the number of vowels on the roster.

mth123
03-22-2008, 10:49 AM
For the Reds' sake and for his own, Gary Majewski really needs to be traded. He needs a change of scenery. Maybe he can go somewhere else and become an effective pitcher (and maybe not), but it isn't going to happen for him here.

No question. He had the deer in the headlights look from the first day. I think the controversy of the trade must have gotten too him. Just my theory. He needs to go somewhere where he is a low key just another guy. Probably not in a pennant race.

As for his complaints, I think 35 pitchers in camp is a lot, but if last year's guys would have pitched better, the team probably wouldn't be turning over every rock to a find a reliever. He just needs to pitch well. It looks like the scattershot approach may pay off. Word is Mike Lincoln is throwing 95 MPH.

Big Klu
03-22-2008, 10:59 AM
I don't quite get McCoy's view on the bullpen. I would think that Cordero, Burton (despite bad spring), Weathers, Affeldt, Bray are locks. That leaves Stanton, Mercker, and Coffey for two spots. If Reds feel they need to keep Stanton due to contract, one open spot remains for Mercker or Coffey. Since 4 lefties is ridiculous, I'd expect Coffey to get the spot and Mercker be let go.

I don't see where Jared Burton should be a lock. Sure, he was the second-best reliever in last year's pen (behind Weathers), but he only has half a season of effective work under his belt--less than Coffey, to be honest. And they have similar skill sets.

But when it comes down to it, Stanton would be the one I would cut out of the herd. I would also send Lincoln to AAA to continue his comeback.

BRM
03-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Somewhere, M2 is dancing a jig.

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:03 AM
I don't understand why the Reds are wasting their time with Mike Lincoln - the guy was a bad pitcher (career 5.16 ERA) before he had two Tommy John surgeries, do actually expect him to improve at 32 years old and coming off surgery?

I am glad to see Majewski sent out though; I wish Stanton and Castro were going with him.

WMR
03-22-2008, 11:03 AM
AWESOME NEWS!!!

:party: :party: :party:

LOL @ Gary whining about getting sent to AAA. High comedy there.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:04 AM
Now you can shift your anger towards some of the other contenders for the bullpen, such as Stanton, Mercker, Lincoln and Burton.

Yeah, I've been okay with a lot of the roster construction so far, but the bullpen leaves me scratching my head.

It's just so awful, I don't know where to begin. They've done a great job with the rotation I think; I'd really hate to see it undone by the bullpen. We begin year three of Krivsky's failure to properly fix it.

Matt700wlw
03-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Does Stanton have any options left?

Maybe they can find one...

Matt700wlw
03-22-2008, 11:08 AM
I might have to crack open a celebratory beer today with the news that Majewski is heading to Louisville!

You don't need a reason to crack a beer ;) :beerme:

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:14 AM
I'm still not too worried about Burton right now. Baker says he's been working on some stuff with Dick Pole. I do understand why some folks are concerned about him though...lack of success in the upper minors, only 43 major league innings, and a bad spring on top of that. With that said, while I do have some slight concerns I still like him and think he'll be a big part in the Reds pen this season. Something seemed to click for him in the second half of last season. Now I don't expect him to put up a 1.84 ERA like he did in the second half last season but an ERA in the 3.15-3.40 area is realistic IMO.

Patrick Bateman
03-22-2008, 11:25 AM
I don't mind Burton as a middle guy, but if he's a fixture, and since he appears to be, this pen is not going to be good. It's nice that we have Cordero locked in as closer, but I have zero confidence in him as the primary set-up guy, and all his peripherals point towards steep decline.

I think Bray and Burton have the upside to be key components. Like the rest of the team, we'll be relying on young, unproven players to fill the gaping holes. If they fail, there isn't a lot of hope there. It'd be nice if Roenicke was still around though.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:34 AM
I don't mind Burton as a middle guy, but if he's a fixture, and since he appears to be, this pen is not going to be good. It's nice that we have Cordero locked in as closer, but I have zero confidence in him as the primary set-up guy, and all his peripherals point towards steep decline.

I think Bray and Burton have the upside to be key components. Like the rest of the team, we'll be relying on young, unproven players to fill the gaping holes. If they fail, there isn't a lot of hope there. It'd be nice if Roenicke was still around though.

Roenicke, though, is just more of the same young, unproven stuff you're labeling (correctly) Bray and Burton with.

I'm okay with the team being thin on pitching; in many ways, I think that's just the way of the world for teams like the Reds. But I think stupid decisions like sending Coutlangus down while keeping Stanton up can erode confidence fairly quickly.

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:35 AM
I'm hoping by the end of May the Reds have weeded out the chaff (Stanton, Fogg) and replaced them with younger, more talented arms.

My hopeful bullpen by June 1:

Francisco Cordero
Josh Roenicke
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Pedro Viola
David Weathers
Todd Coffey

Carlos Fisher could be ready to replace Weathers by the end of the season if Weathers struggles.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:36 AM
I'm hoping by the end of May the Reds have weeded out the chaff (Stanton, Fogg) and replaced them with younger, more talented arms.

My hopeful bullpen by June 1:

Francisco Cordero
Josh Roenicke
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Pedro Viola
David Weathers
Todd Coffey

Carlos Fisher could be ready to replace Weathers by the end of the season if Weathers struggles.

I seriously doubt all those kids will be ready at one time.

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:40 AM
I seriously doubt all those kids will be ready at one time.

Roenicke is ready right now IMO. He looked very good this spring. Pedro Viola could use a month or two in Louisville but he's good the stuff to pitch in the major leagues right now IMO. He was nothing short of dominant last season.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/V/Pedro-Viola.shtml

Patrick Bateman
03-22-2008, 11:41 AM
Roenicke, though, is just more of the same young, unproven stuff you're labeling (correctly) Bray and Burton with.

Oh I agree... but at least there is some potential there. If he works out you may be able to piece together a bullpen. In that case talent isn't the issue. It's better than tossing guys like Affeldt/Merker/Lincoln/Stanton etc. out there. Perhaps they can provide midlding results in the short term... but there's no hope with that avenue. No upside. Guaranteed lose-lose.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:41 AM
Roenicke is ready right now IMO. He looked very good this spring. Pedro Viola could use a month or two in Louisville but he's good the stuff to pitch in the major leagues right now IMO. He was nothing short of dominant last season.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/V/Pedro-Viola.shtml

I know the upside on all of them. I'm not saying they won't make it. I'm just saying that it's unlikely that each pitcher's timetable will be synced that closely.

Matt700wlw
03-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Roenicke can throw some smoke....guys like Stanton are smoked.

If we're going young, then let's do it....the Reds can't seem to make that decision, though.

Chip R
03-22-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm okay with the team being thin on pitching; in many ways, I think that's just the way of the world for teams like the Reds. But I think stupid decisions like sending Coutlangus down while keeping Stanton up can erode confidence fairly quickly.


Coutlangus? Are you serious? The guy can't throw a strike to save his life. He can't get lefties out so what good is he? I'm not saying he doesn't have potential and I don't care much for Stanton either but he's not a major league pitcher now.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:48 AM
Oh I agree... but at least there is some potential there. If he works out you may be able to piece together a bullpen. In that case talent isn't the issue. It's better than tossing guys like Affeldt/Merker/Lincoln/Stanton etc. out there. Perhaps they can provide midlding results in the short term... but there's no hope with that avenue. No upside. Guaranteed lose-lose.

That's true. And the risk is certainly less great when you gamble on bullpen arms versus gambling on arms for the rotation.

I'd go:

Cordero--Closer

Weathers
Burton
Coutlangus (the only guy in the pen who can consistently retire lefties)
Bray
Affeldt
Coffey

First one who falters gets replaced by Roenicke.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 11:49 AM
Coutlangus? Are you serious? The guy can't throw a strike to save his life. He can't get lefties out so what good is he? I'm not saying he doesn't have potential and I don't care much for Stanton either but he's not a major league pitcher now.

He can get lefties out.

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:51 AM
I'm just saying that it's unlikely that each pitcher's timetable will be synced that closely.

You're probably right. I guess I'm just wishful thinking, hoping for once the Reds would go with the best possible bullpen instead of giving the open spots to chaff like Mike Stanton and possibly Kent Mercker or Mike Lincoln.

What really screwed this bullpen was the failure of Ryan Wagner. When Wagner first came up he looked like an All-Star closer for years. This bullpen would be in solid shape right now if he had panned out.

Patrick Bateman
03-22-2008, 11:52 AM
That's true. And the risk is certainly less great when you gamble on bullpen arms versus gambling on arms for the rotation.

I'd go:

Cordero--Closer

Weathers
Burton
Coutlangus (the only guy in the pen who can consistently retire lefties)
Bray
Affeldt
Coffey

First one who falters gets replaced by Roenicke.

That looks good to me. I don't hate that Roenicke isn't on the team, but I don't think the Reds gave him a serious chance to make the team... so I doubt that he's one of the first call-ups. I think that honour will go to a guy like Majewski. But ya... you got the right names in the mix.

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 11:55 AM
That looks good to me. I don't hate that Roenicke isn't on the team, but I don't think the Reds gave him a serious chance to make the team... so I doubt that he's one of the first call-ups. I think that honour will go to a guy like Majewski. But ya... you got the right names in the mix.

Both Roenicke and Marcus McBeth should be ahead of Majewski on the depth chart IMO. In fact you and I should be ahead of Majewski on the depth chart.;)

reds44
03-22-2008, 12:10 PM
For the Reds' sake and for his own, Gary Majewski really needs to be traded. He needs a change of scenery. Maybe he can go somewhere else and become an effective pitcher (and maybe not), but it isn't going to happen for him here.
Gary Majewski for Felipe Lopez. :D

Highlifeman21
03-22-2008, 12:11 PM
Well what am I supposed to do with my authentic Majewski jersey now?

Emergency toilet paper should you ever run out.

redsmetz
03-22-2008, 12:13 PM
The team just made a big drop in the number of vowels on the roster.

Dare I say, it was a vowel movement? :eek:

Chip R
03-22-2008, 12:18 PM
He can get lefties out.


Some people are stupid enough to swing at pitches outside the strike zone.

fearofpopvol1
03-22-2008, 12:30 PM
The bullpen is a bit scary looking right now, but taking Majewski out of the mix is a good step in the right direction. I have to believe that outside of Cordero and Weathers and maybe Burton, everyone in the pen is on a short leash. I'd really like to see them give Roenicke a shot, but perhaps that will happen in due time.

Kc61
03-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Coutlangus still has a decent future. He needs to work on his control. He is tough against lefties.

I think Cout was rushed to the major leagues and overused last year. He wasn't ready for it. Still, at times he was pretty effective.

Let's give him some more time to get ready. I think he can help eventually.

traderumor
03-22-2008, 12:48 PM
I have to second Chip on Coutlangous. His ability to get a lefty out here and there is greatly overshadowed by his control problems.

RedsManRick
03-22-2008, 01:28 PM
Shame we can't carry a lefty who actually has a platoon advantage...

Neither Stanton nor Affeldt are appreciably tougher on lefties. Cooter on the other hand was nearly untouchable - just needed to throw some more strikes.

*BaseClogger*
03-22-2008, 04:45 PM
Some people are stupid enough to swing at pitches outside the strike zone.

and is that going to suddenly change in 2008?

*BaseClogger*
03-22-2008, 04:46 PM
Shame we can't carry a lefty who actually has a platoon advantage...

Neither Stanton nor Affeldt are appreciably tougher on lefties. Cooter on the other hand was nearly untouchable - just needed to throw some more strikes.

Neither are Bray or Mercker... :(

mth123
03-22-2008, 04:49 PM
More on the pen from Fay.




Bullpen musings

Francisco Cordero, David Weathers, Mike Stanton and Jeremy Affeldt are the locks to make the bullpen.

In the case of Stanton and Affeldt, their $3 million salaries have a lot to do with it. But thatís the way baseball works.

I still think Jared Burton makes it, despite a rough spring.

Thatís five.

Hereís my depth chart for the remaining relievers in camp:
1. Todd Coffey
2. Bill Bray
3. Kent Mercker
4. Mike Lincoln
5. Jim Brower
6. Jose Capellan.

Brower and Capellan have no shot. Itís too close to call among the other four.

Lincolnís an interesting guy. Heís throwing 94 after two ďTommy JohnĒ surgeries and three years off. But he had a bad outing Saturday (1 IP, 3 hits, 2 runs). Each outing is big for the bubble guys now.

Coffey, by the way, has given up one hit and struck out six in 6 2/3 innings this spring.



I think I agree, but I also saw that Belisle threw 30 pitches today. If he is healthy it could change things. I wish they could move Stanton.

Matt700wlw
03-22-2008, 04:59 PM
Lincoln pitched his way OUT of contention today, IMO

Chip R
03-22-2008, 05:11 PM
and is that going to suddenly change in 2008?


It's not the guys who are getting themselves out that I'm worried about. It's the guys who aren't doing that that I'm worried about. Until Coutlangus can get that walk rate down he doesn't deserve to be in the big leagues any more than Majewski does.

*BaseClogger*
03-22-2008, 05:14 PM
It's not the guys who are getting themselves out that I'm worried about. It's the guys who aren't doing that that I'm worried about. Until Coutlangus can get that walk rate down he doesn't deserve to be in the big leagues any more than Majewski does.

I'm not saying that Coutlangus is your 8th ining set-up man, but with 2 outs and a runner on second, and a lefty at the plate, there might not be another guy on the staff I'd rather have pitching. Dusty just needs to use him correctly...

OnBaseMachine
03-22-2008, 05:15 PM
With the way Bray and Coffey have pitched they have got to make the team.

Caveat Emperor
03-22-2008, 05:31 PM
Some people are stupid enough to swing at pitches outside the strike zone.

And, hopefully for LOOGYs everywhere, that fact remains unchanged for all eternity.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 05:45 PM
In the case of Stanton and Affeldt, their $3 million salaries have a lot to do with it. But that’s the way baseball works.

That's not the way "baseball works." That's the way the Reds (and specifically Krivsky) work.

I think that's an important distinction. They control their destiny. No one's got a .38 pointed at the back of their heads.

edabbs44
03-22-2008, 05:59 PM
In the case of Stanton and Affeldt, their $3 million salaries have a lot to do with it. But that’s the way baseball works.


I understand the mentioning of Stanton in this quote. I really do. When the guy is in the last year of a contract these things typically come into play.

Affeldt blows my friggin mind. He was just signed! Fay's quote almost makes it seem like it is no fault of anyone in the system that Affeldt's contract is an issue. Almost like when the Reds were letting Milton pitch out his contract last year. Instead of just accepting that the guy needs to pitch because of his contract, someone should be asking the question of why he was given a $3MM contract to start with.

Falls City Beer
03-22-2008, 06:04 PM
I understand the mentioning of Stanton in this quote. I really do. When the guy is in the last year of a contract these things typically come into play.

Affeldt blows my friggin mind. He was just signed! Fay's quote almost makes it seem like it is no fault of anyone in the system that Affeldt's contract is an issue. Almost like when the Reds were letting Milton pitch out his contract last year. Instead of just accepting that the guy needs to pitch because of his contract, someone should be asking the question of why he was given a $3MM contract to start with.

Why was Stanton given two years?

A ton of us knew that was a terrible idea the day it happened. There are better options in house. There's no reason for Stanton to be there. None.

edabbs44
03-22-2008, 06:09 PM
Why was Stanton given two years?

A ton of us knew that was a terrible idea the day it happened. There are better options in house. There's no reason for Stanton to be there. None.

Agreed 100%. But I'm not focusing on what happened last offseason. That contract was stupid from the get go. But to basically put a guy signed this past offseason in the same class as Stanton before the first official pitch has been thrown is just awful.

Affeldt hasn't played an inning for this team yet and the press is saying that one big reason why he will make the team is because of his contract. Wow.

wheels
03-22-2008, 07:12 PM
I'm just hoping that the random nature of relief pitching in general will work in the Reds' favor this season.

In other words....Cross yer friggin' fingers.

George Anderson
03-22-2008, 10:00 PM
For the Reds' sake and for his own, Gary Majewski really needs to be traded. He needs a change of scenery. Maybe he can go somewhere else and become an effective pitcher (and maybe not), but it isn't going to happen for him here.

Or maybe Magik can do something different like cut his hair and shave his goatee.

I'm sure that will work!! :D

REDREAD
03-24-2008, 05:47 PM
I don't quite get McCoy's view on the bullpen. I would think that Cordero, Burton (despite bad spring), Weathers, Affeldt, Bray are locks. That leaves Stanton, Mercker, and Coffey for two spots. If Reds feel they need to keep Stanton due to contract, one open spot remains for Mercker or Coffey. Since 4 lefties is ridiculous, I'd expect Coffey to get the spot and Mercker be let go.


I think Bray is on the bubble because he has options and has been hurt this spring, and like Maj hasn't exactly dazzled in his time up here.

I think Wayne has a lot of faith in Coffey, and justifiably so IMO.
Coffey makes the team.

Stanton makes the team.

I think Mercker makes the team also. If for no other reason that Mercker has had a decent spring (IIRC) and if they don't put him on the roster, he's gone.. So, I'm guessing Bray gets optioned down to hang with Maj.

REDREAD
03-24-2008, 05:56 PM
Affeldt hasn't played an inning for this team yet and the press is saying that one big reason why he will make the team is because of his contract. Wow.


IMO, Affedlt was signed because of the unkowns in the rotation. Remember, at the time, Fogg was not on board yet, and Wayne probably didn't know Fogg would sign. Wayne also probably smartly assumed that it's not a good idea to rely on two rookies grabbing starting jobs.

As it turns out, it looks like 2 rookies are ready for the rotation, and Fogg can backfill the Belisle slot. Still, it's a very defensible one year signing. We might still need him to eat up innings this year. So much of the team pitching depth is based on kids, and it's nice to not to be forced to use kids to eat innings if they aren't ready. Ceuto or Volquez might stumble. I hope not, but they might. Fogg might implode.

Stanton was indefensible, but Affedlt is defendable.

SMcGavin
03-24-2008, 06:06 PM
I think Bray is on the bubble because he has options and has been hurt this spring, and like Maj hasn't exactly dazzled in his time up here.


I'll agree that Bray hasn't been anything special in the results category (e.g. ERA) with the Reds, but to lump him in with Majewski is not fair. In 42 innings with the Reds, Bray has 37 K against 14 BB. He's given up 4 HR over those innings. From all accounts I've read Bray has pretty good stuff, good enough that there was some scout talk of him as a future setup man or closer at the time of "the trade". A healthy Bray going to Louisville would be a pretty big mistake IMO.

WVRedsFan
03-24-2008, 06:26 PM
I'll agree that Bray hasn't been anything special in the results category (e.g. ERA) with the Reds, but to lump him in with Majewski is not fair. In 42 innings with the Reds, Bray has 37 K against 14 BB. He's given up 4 HR over those innings. From all accounts I've read Bray has pretty good stuff, good enough that there was some scout talk of him as a future setup man or closer at the time of "the trade". A healthy Bray going to Louisville would be a pretty big mistake IMO.

In Bray's 65 innings in the major leagues, he's given up 73 hits and 33 earned runs for an ERA of 4.57. Really nothing to write home about. Many pitchers have had good stuff, but couldn't use it to get people out. Last year, Bray only had 14 innings of work and was injured early in Spring Training. If he does go to Louisville, it's because he needs the chance to perfect that good stuff.

His time will come and it appears he's having a good spring. Hopefully, whether he comes north or not, he's learning how to miss bats.

fearofpopvol1
03-24-2008, 07:51 PM
In Bray's 65 innings in the major leagues, he's given up 73 hits and 33 earned runs for an ERA of 4.57. Really nothing to write home about. Many pitchers have had good stuff, but couldn't use it to get people out. Last year, Bray only had 14 innings of work and was injured early in Spring Training. If he does go to Louisville, it's because he needs the chance to perfect that good stuff.

His time will come and it appears he's having a good spring. Hopefully, whether he comes north or not, he's learning how to miss bats.

Would you rather have Mercker on the roster instead of Bray, because that's likely what it's going to come down to.

*BaseClogger*
03-24-2008, 07:57 PM
ERA is not something I would throw around when discussing relief pitchers...