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View Full Version : Todd Frazier and Brandon Waring to start in Dayton



dougdirt
03-24-2008, 04:58 PM
Per Dragons press release.

Why Todd Frazier is starting in Dayton, I have no idea.

OnBaseMachine
03-24-2008, 05:01 PM
Todd Frazier is polished enough to start in Chattanooga, Sarasota at worst. Sticking Frazier is Dayton is puzzling to say the least. If/when Frazier crushes the ball, he should be skipped past Sarasota and directly to Chattanooga sometime this summer IMO.

dougdirt
03-24-2008, 05:02 PM
Todd Frazier is polished enough to start in Chattanooga, Sarasota at worst. Sticking Frazier is Dayton is puzzling to say the least.

Which begs the question, does that mean Cozart and Francisco are in Sarasota? Which leads to another one, where does that leave Neftali Soto?

lollipopcurve
03-24-2008, 05:06 PM
The Reds like their top prospects to do time in Dayton -- great minor league baseball town/stadium, close to Cincy. Frazier may only do a half-season there. After that, I think the organization has no problems with top guys doing short time in Sarasota, which is pretty rugged in the summer.

dougdirt
03-24-2008, 05:14 PM
The Reds like their top prospects to do time in Dayton -- great minor league baseball town/stadium, close to Cincy. Frazier may only do a half-season there. After that, I think the organization has no problems with top guys doing short time in Sarasota, which is pretty rugged in the summer.

I would be very surprised if he were the only college hitter placed in Low A taken from the first two rounds of last years draft. If Danny Dorn was ready to jump to Sarasota from Billings, I have a hard time being told that Frazier isn't.

Redman15
03-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Francisco will be in Sarasota with most of last years Dayton Team.

HBP
03-24-2008, 10:44 PM
Maybe they're keeping Frazier with Waring hoping they'll complement each other in the order? Then move them to Sarasota/Chatt after a few months of big numbers.

dougdirt
03-24-2008, 10:46 PM
Maybe they're keeping Frazier with Waring hoping they'll complement each other in the order? Then move them to Sarasota/Chatt after a few months of big numbers.

I doubt thats the reason.... I would think the Reds have to have plans on moving Frazier faster than they do Waring being that Frazier is much more polished of a player.

I would really like to know who is going to be playing SS in Sarasota. If it is Zach Cozart, I really will be confused.

BigRed07
03-24-2008, 11:26 PM
I see Sarasota's line-up something like this. Parker 1B; Turner 2B;
Valaika SS; Francisco 3B; Heisey LF; Stubbs CF; Phipps RF;
Rodriquez C; Louwsma Utility.

dougdirt
03-25-2008, 12:02 AM
I see Sarasota's line-up something like this. Parker 1B; Turner 2B;
Valaika SS; Francisco 3B; Heisey LF; Stubbs CF; Phipps RF;
Rodriquez C; Louwsma Utility.

Well, Valaika was moved off of SS during fall ball.... so I don't know what that means for the entire situation.

BigRed07
03-25-2008, 12:10 AM
I heard that he is having a pretty good spring. He had a pinch hit
in the big league game tonight.

dougdirt
03-25-2008, 12:13 AM
I heard that he is having a pretty good spring. He had a pinch hit
in the big league game tonight.

Which is all fine and dandy, but he isn't a SS anymore so I don't see why he would be the SS in Sarasota.

BigRed07
03-25-2008, 12:17 AM
Frazier has been splitting time with Francisco at 3rd this spring. Does this mean he is not a SS anymore? Valaika has been a solid SS in his first two seasons.

dougdirt
03-25-2008, 12:27 AM
Frazier has been splitting time with Francisco at 3rd this spring. Does this mean he is not a SS anymore? Valaika has been a solid SS in his first two seasons.

Frazier, just like Valaika, doesn't project to be a SS. Valaika has been solid with his bat the first two seasons, but in the field, he isn't a shortstop. 2B is his likely position of the future. Most people project Frazier to be a 3B, but the Reds will let him play SS for a while in order to get the at bats for everyone.

BigRed07
03-25-2008, 12:35 AM
Who would you say is the best SS in the system? Soto. His fielding was brutal last year. Cozart is the best defensive SS behind Janish.
He is a carbon copy of Janish. Great glove, strong arm, weak bat. Castro is the next in line IMO of SS in the system.
Valaika would be next on my list.

dougdirt
03-25-2008, 12:46 AM
Who would you say is the best SS in the system? Soto. His fielding was brutal last year. Cozart is the best defensive SS behind Janish.
He is a carbon copy of Janish. Great glove, strong arm, weak bat. Castro is the next in line IMO of SS in the system.
Valaika would be next on my list.

Defensively, I would say Cozart, Janish and Castro are the only legit shortstops in the entire system (not counting anyone in the Dominican or Venezuelan Summer Leagues that we have no clue about).
Frazier and Valaika both lack the range to play SS in the big leagues. Soto, the jury is still out on him, but its probably 25% that he sticks at SS.

jmcclain19
03-25-2008, 03:33 AM
Maybe they are keeping him close to Cincy for a pennant run call up?

Or maybe they just want him to seriously mash a la Jay Bruce in 2007. Build up that confidence into a massive reservoir before they push him hard up the ladder.

tbball10
03-25-2008, 07:34 AM
When I was at Spring Training, Valaika and Frazier were both playing SS. Valaika was playing with the older kids, and Frazier was playing down with Waring, who was the 3B on his team. I would assume both Valaika and Frazier start the season at SS.

Also, Cozart did not play in the field, but hit on the same field as Frazier and Waring. If I had to make a prediction after reading the Dayton article, I would say:
Frazier- SS Dayton
Cozart- SS Sarasota
Valaika SS/2B (depending on Castro) Chattanooga

OnBaseMachine
03-25-2008, 10:02 AM
The Dragons lineup is expected to be anchored by shortstop Todd Frazier and third baseman Brandon Waring. Scott is confident in those two players, who combined to hit 76 home runs last season between college and their first years at the professional level.

“Those guys let it go,” said Scott. “We also have another one, (first baseman) Mike McKennon, that can pop ‘em too. The three, four, and five holes are very solid right now. I am very happy about that and expect them to have big seasons. It will be nice to have them in the lineup every day and we have a nice combination of some other guys with some speed. It’s going to be fun.”

Scott says the Dragons outfield is taking shape.

“Denis Phipps is probably going to come back,” he said. “I think it will be good for him to come back and put together a solid season. (Center fielder Justin) Reed can be electrifying. He’s got some pop in his bat, he runs well, and he’s going to be fun to watch out in center field. Then we’ve got a kid, (Brandon) Menchaca, the fans are really going to love this guy, he’s blue collar, he’s a lot like (Chris) Heisey or Cody Strait that already went through Dayton and I think he’s going to be the fan favorite out there.”

Menchaca played college baseball at the University of Delaware before being selected in the 13th round of the 2007 draft by the Reds. He was the recipient of the Reds “Gamer” Award in their fall Florida Instructional League program.

http://daytondragons.com/pressbox/pressrelease/index.html?article_id=488

camisadelgolf
03-25-2008, 12:30 PM
I like Brandon Menchaca a lot, too. I think he'll really surprise some people this year.

Redman15
03-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Also, Cozart did not play in the field, but hit on the same field as Frazier and Waring. If I had to make a prediction after reading the Dayton article, I would say:
Frazier- SS Dayton
Cozart- SS Sarasota
Valaika SS/2B (depending on Castro) Chattanooga

Drew Anderson played 2B with Chattanooga today. Which probably means they are making room
for some guy's being sent down today from the big league camp. Here is where I think the SS
will be to start the year.
AAA Janish
AA Castro
HIA Valaika
LOA Frazier
ROK Soto

I think Cozart stay's in Sarasota until he is ready
and then heads to Dayton.

Redman15
03-25-2008, 09:12 PM
From OSC:http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3610451

The deepest position in the Reds organization is shortstop and the Dragons will have one of the best of the bunch in 2008 in Todd Frazier. With former Dragon Paul Janish in Triple-A, highly-regarded Jose Castro in Double-A, and Dragons' '07 starter Chris Valaika apparently headed to Sarasota, the road ahead of Frazier is crowded. Additionally, Zach Cozart, who is coming back from an injury and may not be ready for opening day, was drafted as a shortstop by the Reds last June after being selected by Baseball America as the top defensive infielder in all of college baseball in 2007. And the youngest of the Reds shortstop prospects, 19-year-old Neftali Soto, was a third round draft pick last June.

Superdude
03-26-2008, 01:58 AM
Where does Soto fit in here? I wanted to see him start at Dayton, but that's looking unlikely at this point. Does Cozart really go to Sarasota before Frazier?

dougdirt
03-26-2008, 02:55 AM
Where does Soto fit in here? I wanted to see him start at Dayton, but that's looking unlikely at this point. Does Cozart really go to Sarasota before Frazier?

I am waiting around trying to find the answers to these questions as well. The Reds have a real pile up of 2B/SS/3B guys who may not be at the right position in the Dayton/Sarasota levels.

Redman15
03-26-2008, 10:29 AM
I wonder if they are going to make some cuts or just keep clogging up the system
with guy's who have had sub-par seasons the last couple of years?

HBP
03-26-2008, 12:04 PM
Soto to the outfield could be a possibility as he did have 17 errors in 41 games last year playing SS-3B.

fearofpopvol1
03-26-2008, 12:24 PM
I wonder if they are going to make some cuts or just keep clogging up the system
with guy's who have had sub-par seasons the last couple of years?

Let's hope not. Hopefully they at least trade some of these guys to other organizations for depth at other positions.

dougdirt
03-26-2008, 01:12 PM
Soto to the outfield could be a possibility as he did have 17 errors in 41 games last year playing SS-3B.

I doubt that happens just yet. He does need some work on his defense, but of the guys who can hit that the Reds have that play SS, he is the only one with a true shot to stick at SS. He is still real young, so I don't think that move is coming. Dayton does have a DH, so I wonder if thats in the plans with Waring, Soto and Frazier rotating in and out of the DH spot.

redsof72
03-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Soto has been playing the outfield some this spring. Not sure what their plans are for him. He was actually playing with the Sarasota team early this week, in the outfield with Stubbs and Kainer. Sarasota looks like they are a bit short on players right now until a couple of guys who are working out with Chattanooga get moved back to them.

I thought there might be a chance Soto would play second base at Dayton until Cozart is ready but that is not going to happen. Right now, the second base job at Dayton looks like a battle between Bartles, Cabrera, Kahaulelio, and Feiner.

camisadelgolf
03-26-2008, 07:01 PM
I would love to see what Angel Cabrera could do at Dayton. He's received so little press that I have to assume he's a non-prospect. He's 22 years old, was a 2005 40th round draft pick, and he made a lot of errors as a shortstop. However, his numbers have me very intrigued:

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=32024

Year Age Tm Lg Lvl Aff G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+
2006 20 RDS GCL Rk CIN 48 167 31 49 15 2 3 17 24 31 .293 .385 .461 .846 2 1 67% 2 2 0 2 4
2007 21 BIL PIO Rk CIN 53 182 37 53 12 0 1 21 19 44 .291 .360 .374 .734 4 0 100% 1 1 0 1 4
+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+
2 Seasons Rk 101 349 68 102 27 2 4 38 43 75 .292 .372 .415 .787 6 1 86% 3 3 0 3 8

My understanding is that Brett Bartles projects more as a corner fielder, and I'll be very disappointed if Kevyn Feiner and his .598 career OPS over three years get the starting job.

HBP
03-26-2008, 07:18 PM
Soto has been playing the outfield some this spring. Not sure what their plans are for him. He was actually playing with the Sarasota team early this week, in the outfield with Stubbs and Kainer. Sarasota looks like they are a bit short on players right now until a couple of guys who are working out with Chattanooga get moved back to them.

I thought there might be a chance Soto would play second base at Dayton until Cozart is ready but that is not going to happen. Right now, the second base job at Dayton looks like a battle between Bartles, Cabrera, Kahaulelio, and Feiner.

Interesting. How did Soto look in the OF?

OnBaseMachine
03-27-2008, 02:18 PM
Dragons Bullpen Solid in Spring Contest

Sarasota, Fla. - The Dayton Dragons continued their preparations for the start of the 2008 Midwest League baseball season on Wednesday afternoon, battling the Hickory Crawdads in Bradenton.

The Crawdads lineup featured two Pittsburgh Pirates major league players who were in minor league camp to get extra at bats. Pirates center fielder Chris Duffy led off each of the first four innings of the game and was followed to the plate in the first three innings by 2006 National League batting champion Freddy Sanchez, regardless of where the team was in the batting order. Similar occurrences are common in minor league spring training games.

Duffy and Sanchez gave Dragons starting pitcher Luis Montano trouble, as the Crawdads enjoyed a pair of three run innings against the 23-year-old and went on to win the game 7-0.

The highlight of the day for Dayton was the work of the bullpen. Relievers Phillippe Valiquette, Dan Zeffiro, and Joseph Krebs combined for five scoreless innings. Valiquette, who pitched for Dayton in each of the last three seasons, was very impressive in retiring all six batters he faced. Zeffiro threw two shutout frames, and Krebs pitched a perfect inning while striking out two.

Krebs, who had an outstanding college season in 2007 at the University of Texas, could emerge as the Dragons closer when the season opens on April 3rd at Great Lakes. The 23-year-old former high football star receiver went 3-2 with a 3.98 earned run average in 10 games with Billings last summer after being drafted by the Reds.

The Dragons will take on the Orioles’ Single-A club, the Delmarva Shorebirds, on Thursday and then meet Hickory again on Friday. They will work out at the Reds Minor League Complex Saturday before heading to Dayton.

After opening the season at Great Lakes, the Dragons will host the Fort Wayne Wizards in their home opener at Fifth Third Field on Monday, April 7th.

Notes: New Dragons third baseman Brandon Waring had a great professional debut season in 2007 when he belted a league-leading 20 home runs for Billings in the Pioneer League. Those 20 homers came after Waring had hit 27 home runs in the spring at Wofford College to rank second in the nation among NCAA Division I players.

“Overall statistically wise, it was a good year, but I think this year I have to be more consistent,” said Waring after Wednesday’s game. “I had some ups and downs and the main thing is just to be consistent. You have to come ready to play everyday. It’s a full season. It’s long, it’s a grind, and doing the little things right…eating right, sleeping right, just getting ready.”

The Dragons have a pair of positional battles still brewing. Four players are in the mix at second base and four others have split the catching duties. The rest of the lineup looks set with Waring at third base, Todd Frazier at shortstop, Mike McKennon at first base, Brandon Menchaca in left field, Justin Reed in center, and Denis Phipps in right. Reed has also played left and Menchaca has been stationed in center.

The strength of the club figures to be the heart of the batting order, with Frazier, Waring, and McKennon batting in the three, four and five slots. The three combined for 36 home runs in a combined 182 games at Billings last season.

http://daytondragons.com/pressbox/pressrelease/index.html?article_id=491

camisadelgolf
03-27-2008, 02:24 PM
Krebs, who had an outstanding college season in 2007 at the University of Texas, could emerge as the Dragons closer when the season opens on April 3rd at Great Lakes. The 23-year-old former high football star receiver went 3-2 with a 3.98 earned run average in 10 games with Billings last summer after being drafted by the Reds.

I hope his drug tests are being kept up to date.

redsof72
03-27-2008, 07:10 PM
The Reds released Michael Jones today, who at one time was thought to have a chance because of his tools. He was an eighth round pick in 2005 but never developed. They also released infielder Kyle Maunus, who played pretty well last season at Billings. The Reds sent Andy Green down. It will be interesting to see how the Triple-A infield takes shape. They have Rosales, Janish, and Green with Bolivar as a utility guy. Also, veteran Kevin Barker, a first baseman is there. And one first baseman will be coming down, whether it is Votto or Andy Phillips. Jerry Gil can also play the infield. Then you have Jolbert Cabrera and Jerry Hairston still with the big league club but seemingly without a spot.

For the most part, the Reds will be much younger throughout their system this season than they have been in probably 20 years. That is a sign that Krivsky, Reynolds, and company are doing some things right. How many Reds fans got sick of seeing 28 year old Double-A players and Single-A rosters filled with players that never got out of Single-A.

gedred69
03-28-2008, 11:38 PM
I would be very surprised if he were the only college hitter placed in Low A taken from the first two rounds of last years draft. If Danny Dorn was ready to jump to Sarasota from Billings, I have a hard time being told that Frazier isn't.

How about Waring as well? His tenure at Dayton may be short.

dougdirt
03-29-2008, 12:02 AM
How about Waring as well? His tenure at Dayton may be short.

Waring was a 7th round pick. Not a shocker if he starts in Low A (which he will obviously).

Steve4192
03-29-2008, 12:38 PM
Soto to the outfield could be a possibility as he did have 17 errors in 41 games last year playing SS-3B.

Meh.

Pokey Reese had 31 errors in 62 games when he was in rookie ball. Manos de Oro had 21 errors in 60 games of rookie ball, and a whopping 38 errors 113 games at single A.

Minor league error totals are pretty much meaningless, especially in the low minors where half of the fields are cow pastures. If anything, high error totals in the low minors are a GOOD thing, as most rangy young shortstops post obscene error totals in the minors while the plodding future 2B/3B/CF guys post modest error totals.

membengal
04-08-2008, 11:04 AM
Sorry for the fantasy based question, but I am in a brand-new keeper league and we are drafting our five deep minors players right now, and I am leaning heavily toward Frazier with my fifth of five picks (he'll be there, I am the only Reds zealot). If he progresses this year, is the general consensus an ETA in Cincy of 2010? And is there a chance he sticks at SS?

Thanks.

OnBaseMachine
04-08-2008, 11:08 AM
Sorry for the fantasy based question, but I am in a brand-new keeper league and we are drafting our five deep minors players right now, and I am leaning heavily toward Frazier with my fifth of five picks (he'll be there, I am the only Reds zealot). If he progresses this year, is the general consensus an ETA in Cincy of 2010? And is there a chance he sticks at SS?

Thanks.

Frazier is a very polished hitter, so yeah he should be in Cincy in 2010 but don't be surprised if he were to see a September callup in 2009. IMO he's good enough to play in AA Chattanooga right now but the Reds held him back in Dayton so he could play in front of that sell out crowd every night. I really don't think he'll spend too much time in the minors.

redhawk61
04-08-2008, 11:57 AM
agreed with how well he hits he will deff. be in AA by the end of the year, and maybe even sniff some AAA AB's

dougdirt
04-08-2008, 12:32 PM
With the #5 pick overall, there should be someone much better than Todd Frazier available. I like Frazier a lot, but unless this league is ridiculously deep, there has to be several much better options than Frazier. Still, I would say his date of arrival is mid to late 2010. Moving 2 levels a season but not making the team out of ST in 2010.

HBP
04-08-2008, 01:26 PM
Meh.

Pokey Reese had 31 errors in 62 games when he was in rookie ball. Manos de Oro had 21 errors in 60 games of rookie ball, and a whopping 38 errors 113 games at single A.

Minor league error totals are pretty much meaningless, especially in the low minors where half of the fields are cow pastures. If anything, high error totals in the low minors are a GOOD thing, as most rangy young shortstops post obscene error totals in the minors while the plodding future 2B/3B/CF guys post modest error totals.

Obviously there is some worry there from the front office if he's been placed in the OF a few times. I'm not saying he will or should move, just bringing up a possible outcome to the positional jam in the system. As to whether his error count has any influence how good he is defensively, since neither you (I assume) nor I are a Reds scout, we have no idea if that's the case.

membengal
04-08-2008, 02:06 PM
With the #5 pick overall, there should be someone much better than Todd Frazier available. I like Frazier a lot, but unless this league is ridiculously deep, there has to be several much better options than Frazier. Still, I would say his date of arrival is mid to late 2010. Moving 2 levels a season but not making the team out of ST in 2010.


No, not fifth pick overall, my fifth pick of the 5 taxi squad picks. Actually, it will be the last minors squad pick (60th and last pick of the prolonged auction/draft).

And, yes, it is a ridiculously deep keeper league. Most of the stud prospects who are close either got drafted at auction or scooped up in the reserve rounds. What is leftover has been deep minors talent mining hoping to catch a diamond in the rough.

ETA: We've already drafted about 420 players prior to the taxi squad portion of the draft.

M2
04-08-2008, 02:20 PM
Numbers update:

Waring - .421/.476/.737
Frazier - .385/.619/.769

Sure, it's only five games, but those two are already teasing sick seasons.

dougdirt
04-08-2008, 02:56 PM
No, not fifth pick overall, my fifth pick of the 5 taxi squad picks. Actually, it will be the last minors squad pick (60th and last pick of the prolonged auction/draft).

And, yes, it is a ridiculously deep keeper league. Most of the stud prospects who are close either got drafted at auction or scooped up in the reserve rounds. What is leftover has been deep minors talent mining hoping to catch a diamond in the rough.

ETA: We've already drafted about 420 players prior to the taxi squad portion of the draft.

Ah, alright.... makes a lot more sense then.

Screwball
04-10-2008, 12:26 AM
In case you were wondering, here are some numbers for Frazier and Waring so far (Fay (http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/) did the math, so don't shoot old Screwball if it's wrong):



Frazier had three hits tonight, Waring two. Frazier is hitting .476 with a 1.811 OPS. Waring is hitting .458 with a 1.411 OPS. It's only seven games but . . .


:beerme:

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2008, 12:44 AM
Frazier has seven extra-base hits in only 21 atbats, or one XBH per three atbats(3 doubles, 3 homers). That's crazy. In addition to the impressive power numbers he has a 8 BB/2 K ratio. Waring is a slacker; He is "only" averaging an XBH every six atbats (1 double, three homeruns in 24 atbats) while drawing four walks and striking out eight times. Frazier is the more polished of the two but I think both are going to be major leaguers. Frazier has stardom written all over him.

princeton
04-10-2008, 06:18 AM
Waring and Szymanski have had exactly the same start; I don't believe that either has much of a future in the majors.

Frazier, OTOH...

Interestingly, the third of the "hit-or-miss" triplets, Juan Francisco, is also scorching early

Cyclone792
04-10-2008, 06:32 AM
Frazier is hitting .476/.621/1.190/1.811 already through the first seven games.

Those are video game numbers right there.

lollipopcurve
04-10-2008, 08:16 AM
Frazier has stardom written all over him.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. He doesn't have any obvious plus tool. He's just a real good hitter who "plays the game the right way." The "if" with Frazier has been "if his power develops." If he gets to be a 35 HR guy, you have a star. If not, you've got a real, real good player.

RedlegJake
04-10-2008, 09:45 AM
I'm not sure I'd go that far. He doesn't have any obvious plus tool. He's just a real good hitter who "plays the game the right way." The "if" with Frazier has been "if his power develops." If he gets to be a 35 HR guy, you have a star. If not, you've got a real, real good player.

real, real good player and star is kinda nit-picking at this point. He has no obvious plus tool but no obvious glaring weakness which is just as important.
Either way he's going to be a major leaguer. And it sure looks like that power is developing alright.

Francisco has been a pleasant surprise so far, I expected him to be struggling a bit this year but that may yet happen when he finally gets to AA and starts facing guys with plus offspeed stuff regularly. It's obvious the guy can hammer the fastball. He's #2 on my list of low minor league hitters.

Despite his start I'm still more or less skeptical of Waring. Of course, I hope he hits everywhere he goes and makes me look foolish for the doubt.

gonelong
04-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Frazier hit a HR to dead center on Tuesday, a no doubter. I had my 4 yr old in tow and didn't get to see as much of the game as I would like, but he stood out (at the plate) to me right away.

GL

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2008, 10:39 AM
I'm not sure I'd go that far. He doesn't have any obvious plus tool. He's just a real good hitter who "plays the game the right way." The "if" with Frazier has been "if his power develops." If he gets to be a 35 HR guy, you have a star. If not, you've got a real, real good player.

Maybe stardom isn't the right word, but the guy can hit. He may not be a flashy, toolsy player but I think his bat is going to take him a long way. Scouts said he could hit 25 homeruns a year but his power seems to be developing better than that, and considering the home park he'll be playing in he could probably hit 30 homeruns. That, combined with his ability to hit for high average and impressive plate discipline is enough to make a potential star hitter IMO. I'm hoping this kid sees some time in Chattanooga before the year is over.

lollipopcurve
04-10-2008, 11:16 AM
real, real good player and star is kinda nit-picking at this point. He has no obvious plus tool but no obvious glaring weakness which is just as important.
Either way he's going to be a major leaguer. And it sure looks like that power is developing alright.

I agree with everything here.

IslandRed
04-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Frazier probably comes across better on a Seven Skills evaluation than a Five Tools evaluation. Sometimes, as we look at raw power and walk rate and athletic ability and all that, we don't pay enough attention to a guy's ability to simply square it up. Take Gary Sheffield -- he's not otherworldly toolsy. He has excellent bat speed, of course. But the main thing distinguishing him from the dozens of big-leaguers of the same physical ability but lesser accomplishments is, he hits the ball square on the nose more frequently than they do. That's about as fundamental as a skill gets in this game.

M2
04-10-2008, 02:25 PM
Frazier probably comes across better on a Seven Skills evaluation than a Five Tools evaluation. Sometimes, as we look at raw power and walk rate and athletic ability and all that, we don't pay enough attention to a guy's ability to simply square it up. Take Gary Sheffield -- he's not otherworldly toolsy. He has excellent bat speed, of course. But the main thing distinguishing him from the dozens of big-leaguers of the same physical ability but lesser accomplishments is, he hits the ball square on the nose more frequently than they do. That's about as fundamental as a skill gets in this game.

Excellent point. It should be added that hits for average is one of the five tools and Frazier might be the best hits for average prospect the Reds have come up with since Barry Larkin.

RDriesenUD
04-10-2008, 04:11 PM
i think the way i woud put it is this. Frazier will be a star for the Reds and a really good player in the minds of outsiders. he plays the game the right way, hits the ball hard all over, hits for avg, will hit for good enough power, will do some running. he may never "look" like a star to others. but to us, he will be a star.

princeton
04-10-2008, 04:28 PM
I saw an old article the other day calling Todd Frazier the last little Little League hero. Unlike the monstrous, post-pubescent 6 footers who have starred recently, Frazier hit four homers in the series while standing all of 5 feet, 2 inches.

I suspect that for years he's been told that he just doesn't have the body-- the arm, the feet, the speed-- to play with the big boys. But, he could hit the ball-- really, really hit the ball-- so they let him play anyway.

I don't see that much has changed.

HBP
04-10-2008, 04:35 PM
Frazier sounds like a non switch hitting version of Chipper Jones (if that makes sense). I still think it's too early to make many assumptions on him since he's just in low A.

princeton
04-10-2008, 04:36 PM
Frazier sounds like a non switch hitting version of Chipper Jones (if that makes sense). I still think it's too early to make many assumptions on him since he's just in low A.

think about your two sentences

mlbfan30
04-10-2008, 05:15 PM
Frazier sounds like a non switch hitting version of Chipper Jones (if that makes sense). I still think it's too early to make many assumptions on him since he's just in low A.

The Chipper comparison might not be too bad in terms of skill sets and such meaning there are no holes, however assuming Frazier is behind Chipper in every skill.

But because Frazier is behind in everything, Chipper is a bad comparison. We could look right at EE for a comparison. EE is basically a .290/.350/.450 hitter and that's probably something reasonable.

At 21, in 182 AB Frazier hit .319 .405 .538 at RK and A
At 20, in 215 AB Edwin hit .321 .389 .484 at A+

M2
04-10-2008, 05:55 PM
I saw an old article the other day calling Todd Frazier the last little Little League hero. Unlike the monstrous, post-pubescent 6 footers who have starred recently, Frazier hit four homers in the series while standing all of 5 feet, 2 inches.

I suspect that for years he's been told that he just doesn't have the body-- the arm, the feet, the speed-- to play with the big boys. But, he could hit the ball-- really, really hit the ball-- so they let him play anyway.

I don't see that much has changed.

Great take. Amazing how the hardest thing to do in the sport is sometimes the easiest thing to overlook.

HBP
04-10-2008, 08:05 PM
think about your two sentences

I was just reminding myself I guess. Obviously, I don't think he's a Jones type player yet, just the way he's been described they sound similar if Frazier keeps on developing.

HBP
04-10-2008, 08:12 PM
The Chipper comparison might not be too bad in terms of skill sets and such meaning there are no holes, however assuming Frazier is behind Chipper in every skill.

But because Frazier is behind in everything, Chipper is a bad comparison. We could look right at EE for a comparison. EE is basically a .290/.350/.450 hitter and that's probably something reasonable.

At 21, in 182 AB Frazier hit .319 .405 .538 at RK and A
At 20, in 215 AB Edwin hit .321 .389 .484 at A+

Jones wasn't a big HR hitter until he got to the majors. In the minors he hit for high average and walked a lot which is exactly what Frazier is doing. No, I'm not saying they're on the same pure talent level, instead I'm saying that they have a similar skill set.