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*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 12:30 AM
Brewers Release Claudio Vargas
According to Tom Haudricourt, the Brewers have released 29 year-old starter Claudio Vargas. It's a very surprising move. The Brewers save $2.7MM with the move. Just like that, the Brewers' starting pitching surplus is pretty much gone.

Even if the ERAs haven't been there, you have to credit Vargas for good peripheral stats (6.43 K/9, 3.48 BB/9 for his career). To me he's an affordable #4 starter with the chance to post 175 innings of 4.50 ball. All sorts of pitching-starved clubs should be vying for his services.

Why did Wayne have to go and sign Josh Fogg? Vargas is a significant upgrade over Fogg IMO, especially in GABP. Is there still room/time?
This is also good news for the Reds in that Vargas departs from division rival Milwaukee.

Highlifeman21
03-26-2008, 12:33 AM
With Capuano done for the year, why on Earth would they release a starting pitcher?

Especially one that should be a lock to make the rotation?

*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 12:39 AM
With Capuano done for the year, why on Earth would they release a starting pitcher?

Especially one that should be a lock to make the rotation?

I assume they didn't want him in the rotation (Sheets, Suppan, Bush, Parra, Gallardo) and could save $2.7 million (see Stanton, Mike)...

Spitball
03-26-2008, 01:17 AM
With Capuano done for the year, why on Earth would they release a starting pitcher?

Especially one that should be a lock to make the rotation?

I would guess there are actually factors involved that are beyond our knowledge. What appears to make no sense to us must have some hidden and well thought out logic. Maybe his velocity, movement, and location have gone south and he is beyond repair. I doubt this was an ill conceived move by the Brewers.

*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 01:33 AM
Vargas was 3-1 with a 3.86 ERA in five Spring Training starts and was thought to be a favorite for one of the three unsettled spots because he was out of Minor League options. Instead, Dave Bush, Carlos Villanueva and Manny Parra will round out the starting rotation, in that order, behind Opening Day starter Ben Sheets and No. 2 man Jeff Suppan.

The Brewers tried but were unable to find a team interested in trading for Vargas, who turns 30 in June and was due $3.6 million in 2008. He already cleared outright waivers, meaning all 30 teams could have had him for $20,000, and will be on release waivers until Thursday, meaning a team could claim him for $1 but would be on the hook for his full salary. Assuming he clears, Vargas will be a free agent free to sign a new contract with any club.

PuffyPig
03-26-2008, 01:33 AM
Why did Wayne have to go and sign Josh Fogg? Vargas is a significant upgrade over Fogg IMO, especially in GABP.

I'm guessing that Wayne probably hadn't counted on Vargas being waived, or the Reds ability to sign him.

*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 01:34 AM
I'm guessing that Wayne probably hadn't counted on Vargas being waived, or the Reds ability to sign him.

rhetorical question :D

Jpup
03-26-2008, 03:55 AM
I can't imagine he passed Krivsky and didn't get signed. That's crazy talk. I don't get that at all. He's gotta be hurt, on PED's or a real pain in the rear not to make a club.

Off the top of my head, this is who needs starters even worse than the Reds:

1. St. Louis
2. Washington
3. Houston
4. Baltimore

All of those teams should have the cash to sign him.

LoganBuck
03-26-2008, 02:31 PM
Having Fogg does not preclude a run at Vargas. Fogg is working for peanuts.

Falls City Beer
03-26-2008, 02:33 PM
When Sheets goes down in May, we can send 'em Fogg.

jojo
03-26-2008, 03:00 PM
Vargas looks to be a decent enough back end starter for a thin NL staff. He's basically Josh Fogg/Phil Dumatrait stuff-wise but has not real history of eating innings. He has league average peripherals (K/9, BB/9) for a NL starter but his extreme flyball tendencies means he's more homer prone than an average starter (and hence his backend status).

I can see why Krivsky passed.

*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 03:32 PM
Vargas looks to be a decent enough back end starter for a thin NL staff. He's basically Josh Fogg/Phil Dumatrait stuff-wise but has not real history of eating innings. He has league average peripherals (K/9, BB/9) for a NL starter but his extreme flyball tendencies means he's more homer prone than an average starter (and hence his backend status).

I can see why Krivsky passed.

For Josh Fogg!?

jojo
03-26-2008, 04:05 PM
For Josh Fogg!?

Even though Vargas throws a little harder, he's actually a down grade over Fogg due to his extreme flyball tendencies. There really is no way I'd want Vargas in GABP.

dfs
03-26-2008, 04:36 PM
Vargas may be better than fogg, but that still doesn't mean that he's good. I would still rather they pour starts into Belisle and I'm not a big Belisle fan.


Can somebody help me with the mechanics of this?

I was under the impression that major league contracts were structured so that the player got paid even if they got released. Indeed that's the whole holdup with Stanton, the reds have to pay him even if they cut him.

How is this different and the Brew-crew is saving money be releasing him?

jojo
03-26-2008, 04:48 PM
Vargas may be better than fogg, but that still doesn't mean that he's good. I would still rather they pour starts into Belisle and I'm not a big Belisle fan.


Can somebody help me with the mechanics of this?

I was under the impression that major league contracts were structured so that the player got paid even if they got released. Indeed that's the whole holdup with Stanton, the reds have to pay him even if they cut him.

How is this different and the Brew-crew is saving money be releasing him?

This is a cliff's notes generalized explanation: Even though a guy is signed, a club isn't on the hook for the whole contract if it's a nonguaranteed deal and they release him before certain dates. The amount they're on the hook for is graded based upon the length of time before they release a guy. The Brewers signed Vargas for $3.6M but only had to pay him $.9M (1/4th the value of the contract) since they released him when they did. So the Brewers saved $2.7M in theory. The Ms released HoRam 12 days ago and only had to pay him 1/6th of the money he signed for because they released him before the cutoff for the next bump up.

It's a way to take a cheap flyer on a guy rather (i.e. the Ms basically kept HoRam as an option for roughly $100K) than simply non-tendering him and not having him in the mix at all. Clubs couldn't really do this with guys they sign for multiple years.

*BaseClogger*
03-26-2008, 06:34 PM
Even though Vargas throws a little harder, he's actually a down grade over Fogg due to his extreme flyball tendencies. There really is no way I'd want Vargas in GABP.

You are correct. I missed Vargas's FB tendencies. He would make an excellent target for other pitching-starved teams though...

REDREAD
03-27-2008, 03:54 PM
Vargas may be better than fogg, but that still doesn't mean that he's good. I would still rather they pour starts into Belisle and I'm not a big Belisle fan.


Can somebody help me with the mechanics of this?

I was under the impression that major league contracts were structured so that the player got paid even if they got released. Indeed that's the whole holdup with Stanton, the reds have to pay him even if they cut him.

How is this different and the Brew-crew is saving money be releasing him?


I don't know the exact rule, but I'm pretty sure you can cut a guy who got his salary set in arbitration. If you do it by a certain deadline, I think the club only owes the guy 20% of his salary and then the player is a free agent. In other words, the salary is not a guaranteed contract like Stantons' is. That's why Vargas makes 3.6 put the Brewers only save 2.7 (or whatever)..

camisadelgolf
03-27-2008, 04:34 PM
The Ms released HoRam 12 days ago and only had to pay him 1/6th of the money he signed for because they released him before the cutoff for the next bump up.

The funny thing is that they could have just not offered him arbitration a couple months earlier and wouldn't have needed to pay 1/6th of the money he was due.

jojo
03-27-2008, 04:45 PM
The funny thing is that they could have just not offered him arbitration a couple months earlier and wouldn't have needed to pay 1/6th of the money he was due.

That's the point though. A couple months earlier they were looking for 2/5 of their rotation with no real "sure thing" in-house options. To them, it was worth a $100K flyer to keep HoRam around in the hopes that the magic fairy dust finally transformed him into what they thought they were getting.