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View Full Version : Escobar out. Possible Belisle move?



remdog
03-27-2008, 01:22 PM
From this mornings LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angrep27mar27,1,340320.story

Pitcher Kelvim Escobar, an 18-game winner for the Angels last season, revealed Wednesday that he has a tear in his shoulder, an injury that could require season-ending surgery and, possibly, end the veteran right-hander's career.

Speculating about a trade for a starter the writer mentioned the following:

Possible trade targets include the Chicago Cubs' Jon Lieber, Jason Marquis and Sean Marshall, Cleveland's Aaron Laffey and Jeremy Sowers, Oakland's Joe Blanton, Texas' Kameron Loe and Cincinnati's Matt Belisle.

Rem

flyer85
03-27-2008, 01:26 PM
of the guys on that list Belisle may be the cheapest and easiest to acquire. If I was the angels I would go after Marshall.

Team Clark
03-27-2008, 01:38 PM
If I am the Angels I take a longer, more cautious look at Belisle. He has had lingering back issues for two seasons and is currently on the shelf.

TRF
03-27-2008, 01:42 PM
If I am the Angels I take a longer, more cautious look at Belisle. He has had lingering back issues for two seasons and is currently on the shelf.

He had no back problems last year, and right now he has a sore forearm due to practicing his changeup too much. He had a 30 pitch bullpen session and reported no pain, and followed that with a 55 pitch simulated game. I think he's back in a week to 10 days at the latest.

Pheh, I'd offer them Josh Fogg for a season pass to Disneyland.

Chip R
03-27-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm guessing that if the Angels are after any of those players, Jason Marquis is the one they'll get.

Team Clark
03-27-2008, 01:47 PM
He had no back problems last year, and right now he has a sore forearm due to practicing his changeup too much. He had a 30 pitch bullpen session and reported no pain, and followed that with a 55 pitch simulated game. I think he's back in a week to 10 days at the latest.

Pheh, I'd offer them Josh Fogg for a season pass to Disneyland.

I know the forearm is the current issue but for some odd reason I recall back issues last year as well as the year before. Hmmmm.

As far as him being back? I'm pretty sure I understand where you are coming from on this one. He may be considered "healthy" in a week to 10 days but his pitch count needs to be a lot higher than 55 to move into a rotation slot for another team. 10 days isn't going to jump you to 85+ pitches IMO.

TRF
03-27-2008, 01:53 PM
I know the forearm is the current issue but for some odd reason I recall back issues last year as well as the year before. Hmmmm.

As far as him being back? I'm pretty sure I understand where you are coming from on this one. He may be considered "healthy" in a week to 10 days but his pitch count needs to be a lot higher than 55 to move into a rotation slot for another team. 10 days isn't going to jump you to 85+ pitches IMO.

I'm not advocating dealing him, but he has an option left, and most teams don't need a 5th starter early in April. 2 starts at AAA should get him around 90 pitches. It's not like he missed a month. His arm got sore 7 days ago. So, he's missed 1 start. I'm betting he can make that up pretty quick. The back issues were 2-3 years ago.

Team Clark
03-27-2008, 01:59 PM
I'm not advocating dealing him, but he has an option left, and most teams don't need a 5th starter early in April. 2 starts at AAA should get him around 90 pitches. It's not like he missed a month. His arm got sore 7 days ago. So, he's missed 1 start. I'm betting he can make that up pretty quick. The back issues were 2-3 years ago.

I looked it up. Just because I had to know... I stand corrected. He had back issues in 2001 and again in 2006. He had rotator cuff inflamation in May of 2007. For some odd reason I thought it was his back. (I guess because I am getting older and my brain is slower or RFS62 is contagious) Also, I agree with your assessment of the 5th starter scenario.

camisadelgolf
03-27-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm not advocating dealing him, but he has an option left, and most teams don't need a 5th starter early in April. 2 starts at AAA should get him around 90 pitches. It's not like he missed a month. His arm got sore 7 days ago. So, he's missed 1 start. I'm betting he can make that up pretty quick. The back issues were 2-3 years ago.

Are you sure that Belisle has an option left? I'm pretty sure you're right, but I know he was optioned in 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2007. However, in both 2006 and 2007, his optional assignments were very short and therefore, I don't think they counted. If I understand the rules correctly, Belisle has one option year remaining, and he is eligible for a fourth option year so long as he has less than five years of service time (five years in which he was on the ML roster for 90+ days).

OnBaseMachine
03-27-2008, 02:08 PM
That's the second time in the past week or so where I've read Aaron Laffey may be available. He's got some solid minor league numbers and profiles as a No. 3 or 4 starter. Plus he's a lefty. I'd like to see the Reds acquire him if the Indians are thinking of dealing him.

TRF
03-27-2008, 02:31 PM
Are you sure that Belisle has an option left? I'm pretty sure you're right, but I know he was optioned in 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2007. However, in both 2006 and 2007, his optional assignments were very short and therefore, I don't think they counted. If I understand the rules correctly, Belisle has one option year remaining, and he is eligible for a fourth option year so long as he has less than five years of service time (five years in which he was on the ML roster for 90+ days).

I'm going off the fact that I've heard it mentioned a time or two that he has an option, and that a few posters have mentioned him as a starter in AAA. In fact, I see him possibly being DL'd, or optioned if the Reds determine he's healthy.

For better or more likely worse, looks like Fogg is in the rotation.

wretch.

fearofpopvol1
03-27-2008, 10:39 PM
No thanks. A shoulder tear is too serious. I know Belisle is not great and has had some injury concerns, but I think Belisle is more valuable to the Reds than a very injurred Escobar.

LincolnparkRed
03-27-2008, 10:44 PM
No thanks. A shoulder tear is too serious. I know Belisle is not great and has had some injury concerns, but I think Belisle is more valuable to the Reds than a very injurred Escobar.
I don't think anyone wants Kelvim back, they are just sayin that the Angels might be lighting up the phones looking for pitching.

fearofpopvol1
03-27-2008, 10:52 PM
I don't think anyone wants Kelvim back, they are just sayin that the Angels might be lighting up the phones looking for pitching.

Oh, you know what, you're right. I glanced over that article quickly and missed that.

Nevermind.

remdog
03-27-2008, 11:54 PM
When I saw this the first thing that popped into my mind was maybe this was a way to pick up a catcher (Mathis?) as many discussed in another thread.

Escobar's injury may also open a starting slot for D. Mos. Prior to this he was thought to be starting the season in the bully.

Is Belisle a step up over D. Mos? (famous shrug) Could we get Mathis for Belisle? (double famous shrug) Do we even want to trade pitching for a catcher? (all shrugged out)

You guys/gals tell me.

Rem

KronoRed
03-28-2008, 01:48 AM
I'd prefer we try and get Willits, solves the big CF and leadoff hitter problem, and he's going to be a backup with the Angels.

Sadly it seems the Reds consider that problem solved.

mth123
03-28-2008, 04:21 AM
When I saw this the first thing that popped into my mind was maybe this was a way to pick up a catcher (Mathis?) as many discussed in another thread.

Escobar's injury may also open a starting slot for D. Mos. Prior to this he was thought to be starting the season in the bully.

Is Belisle a step up over D. Mos? (famous shrug) Could we get Mathis for Belisle? (double famous shrug) Do we even want to trade pitching for a catcher? (all shrugged out)

You guys/gals tell me.

Rem

I'd love to upgrade the catching position. I think the Reds are among the worst in baseball at that spot, but I'm not sold that Mathis is enough of an upgrade to make it worth dealing Belisle.

I think its a long season. The Reds will probably need 8 to 10 guys who can start to get through it. One of those guys is a 22 year old kid (Cueto) that the organization needs to be careful with and may need to be removed from the rotation for periods of time to keep him healthy and effective. Another is a 21 year old at AAA (Bailey) who is less prepared to handle it physically and even more in danger of injury and may just need a full season down there to work out the kinks in his command. A 3rd is a high ceiling guy who looks like he could shoot to the top of the rotation (Volquez) but is no sure thing and could end up going south or needing to be replaced. A 4th is a AAA LH (Maloney) who looked overmatched in his early spring outings and may not be a realistic back-up plan. A 5th is a journeyman vet (Fogg) who is purely a back-end guy who is prone to periods of ineffectiveness and seems to max out at about 170 innings. Even the mainstays (Harang and Arroyo) are always just one pitch away from being sidelined. I'd guess that before this long season is over, this team is going to need Belisle to avoid the parade of Shearns, Michaleks, Dumatraits and Mayses that we have seen in prior years. I just don't see the need to move the pitching depth at this point. Not saying I wouldn't deal a starter under any circumstances, but it woud take more than Mathis to pry one away.

reds44
03-28-2008, 04:31 AM
I'd prefer we try and get Willits, solves the big CF and leadoff hitter problem, and he's going to be a backup with the Angels.

Sadly it seems the Reds consider that problem solved.
Belisle and Freel for Willits?

TRF
03-28-2008, 09:57 AM
I really like how Mosely was used last year. Lot's of bullpen work, a few spot starts. He's no #1, but could be a decent 3-4 starter.

jojo
03-28-2008, 11:56 AM
Belisle isn't an AL starter. As an Ms fan, I'd love the Angels overreaching. As a Reds fan, I might like the return but would cringe seeing Belisle get lit up in the AL until the Red wore off of my memory of him....

Seriously though, DiGiovanna basically just listed as many potential starters as he thought might on some level be trade bait.

KronoRed
03-28-2008, 02:06 PM
Belisle and Freel for Willits?

Let it be done.