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View Full Version : Down Goes Andy Green



reds44
03-27-2008, 04:28 PM
From Trent


* After the game, INF Andy Green was reassinged to minor league camp.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 04:33 PM
I think I can speak for everyone when I say he won't be missed.

RedLegSuperStar
03-27-2008, 04:35 PM
Well we saw pretty much our starting line-up today.. They may decide to go with Valentin to start the season and ease Ross back in but with Ross playing a back to back games and a night game then a day game would tell me they are likely not to DL him. I think they will work out a trade for Capellen and send him to Louisville. That would clear room for both Cueto and Patterson on the roster.

camisadelgolf
03-27-2008, 04:44 PM
For the record, I really doubt Capellan, if acquired, would go to Louisville. I don't think he'd even go to Chattanooga.

RedLegSuperStar
03-27-2008, 04:54 PM
For the record, I really doubt Capellan, if acquired, would go to Louisville. I don't think he'd even go to Chattanooga.

Has he even pitched at all this spring?

His numbers look good and I think he is at least worth hanging on to.

redsmetz
03-27-2008, 04:59 PM
Has he even pitched at all this spring?

His numbers look good and I think he is at least worth hanging on to.

I thought I saw his name mentioned in the Minor League Box Scores thread the other day.

RedLegSuperStar
03-27-2008, 04:59 PM
I love the fact the Reds are at 34 players still in camp and Opening Day is less then 4 days away. I know Dusty likes to get the starters some rest as Junior is done until the opener but to still have the roster in the mid 30's is nuts. I thought for sure today was going to be a big cut day and let some the bench and who remained battle it out. We all know what the Opening Day roster will be so why delay it?

MrCinatit
03-27-2008, 05:23 PM
Maybe Dusty is waiting for the same thing we've all been wishing for: A soft, easy pop up to Castro, who is suddenly attacked by a stray Bengal Tiger.
That would solve at least one problem. And, if said tiger went into the bullpen for a while, perhaps a couple of more.

Raisor
03-27-2008, 05:36 PM
Maybe Dusty is waiting for the same thing we've all been wishing for: A soft, easy pop up to Castro, who is suddenly attacked by a stray Bengal Tiger.
That would solve at least one problem. And, if said tiger went into the bullpen for a while, perhaps a couple of more.


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/funny-pictures-kittens-attack-feet.jpg

Wheelhouse
03-27-2008, 05:45 PM
I think I can speak for everyone when I say he won't be missed.

Um... no you can't.

Big Klu
03-27-2008, 05:51 PM
Players still in camp:

Pitchers (17)
25 David Weathers
29 Mike Stanton
31 Matt Belisle
33 Josh Fogg
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
45 Bill Bray
48 Francisco Cordero
50 Kent Mercker
51 Jared Burton
52 Jim Brower
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto
84 Mike Lincoln
-- Jose Capallan

Catchers (3)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin
26 David Ross

Infielders (10)
2 Alex Gonzalez
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
15 Jerry Hairston, Jr.
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion
46 Andy Phillips
54 Jolbert Cabrera

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn

OnBaseMachine
03-27-2008, 05:55 PM
I don't understand what they are waiting on. Seriously, is it that hard to decide whether Jim Brower and his 9.00+ spring ERA should make the team or not? The guy is a bad pitcher and his spring numbers prove that. Why is he still in camp? Same could be said for Cabrera and Hairston.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 06:16 PM
Um... no you can't.

So why are you going to miss Andy Green?

Wheelhouse
03-27-2008, 06:26 PM
a) You cannot speak for all of us.

b) a .469 OBP performance w 2 HRs and 7 doubles this Spring could make some say he could be missed. Wouldn't call him dead weight.

c) he's a local guy and there could be many who were pulling for him--that's a reason some could miss him...

camisadelgolf
03-27-2008, 06:30 PM
a) You cannot speak for all of us.

b) a .469 OBP performance w 2 HRs and 7 doubles this Spring could make some say he could be missed. Wouldn't call him dead weight.

c) he's a local guy and there could be many who were pulling for him--that's a reason some could miss him...

Exactly.

And if Jolbert Cabrera gets a roster spot, I'll definitely miss Andy Green.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 06:30 PM
a) You cannot speak for all of us.

b) a .469 OBP performance w 2 HRs and 7 doubles this Spring could make some say he could be missed. Wouldn't call him dead weight.

c) he's a local guy and there could be many who were pulling for him--that's a reason some could miss him...

Regarding Andy Green I can speak for everyone. Even his mom would tell him his isn't good enough to make the Reds. And that's saying something....

A journeyman's ST numbers mean squat. He's a great insurance policy to call up from AAA if need be, but we have better options to take up space on the 25 man roster.

I pull for everyone who wears a Reds uni, but Andy Green should wear a Bats uni for all of 2008, unless someone gets injured.

RANDY IN INDY
03-27-2008, 06:35 PM
Regarding Andy Green I can speak for everyone. Even his mom would tell him his isn't good enough to make the Reds. And that's saying something....

A journeyman's ST numbers mean squat. He's a great insurance policy to call up from AAA if need be, but we have better options to take up space on the 25 man roster.

I pull for everyone who wears a Reds uni, but Andy Green should wear a Bats uni for all of 2008, unless someone gets injured.

Thanks for letting us know that.................:rolleyes:

RedsManRick
03-27-2008, 06:41 PM
Andy Green is 29 and has never had much success outside of the PCL, especially when it comes to power. Mediocre contact, good plate discipline, little power. I'd still take him over Jolbert Cabrera.

I must say, it's interesting how when it comes to spring training, most of the sabermetric types want to ignore the stats and get the scouting reports, whereas the scouting types tend to cite the numbers. Not a value judgment -- just an observation.

reds44
03-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Andy Green is 29 and has never had much success outside of the PCL, especially when it comes to power. Mediocre contact, good plate discipline, little power. I'd still take him over Jolbert Cabrera.

I must say, it's interesting how when it comes to spring training, most of the sabermetric types want to ignore the stats and get the scouting reports, whereas the scouting types tend to cite the numbers. Not a value judgment -- just an observation.
I'd rather Hairston make the team then either Green or Cabrera.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 08:26 PM
I'd rather Hairston make the team then either Green or Cabrera.

Hairston's certainly more versatile than Green or Cabrera. He's almost Ryan Freel Lite.

RedlegJake
03-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Hairston over Green over Cabrera, imo. In that order.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 08:33 PM
Hairston over Green over Cabrera, imo. In that order.

Between those 3, I think that's a very good summation.

mth123
03-27-2008, 08:42 PM
Hairston over Green over Cabrera, imo. In that order.

Except I doubt that any make it. Ross, Javy, Votto, Hatte, B Phillips, Keppinger, Castro, EdE, Dunn, Patterson, Griffey, Hopper and Freel.

Hopefully they'll dump Castro and keep whoever can play SS the best, but since Gonzalez should be back soon, whether its Castro or one of the others, I doubt they are around long. This team needs to clear the Freel/Hopper redundancy soon.

Patrick Bateman
03-27-2008, 08:45 PM
I nominate this the most boring and uninteresting roster battle in the history of baseball.

Highlifeman21
03-27-2008, 08:52 PM
Except I doubt that any make it. Ross, Javy, Votto, Hatte, B Phillips, Keppinger, Castro, EdE, Dunn, Patterson, Griffey, Hopper and Freel.

Hopefully they'll dump Castro and keep whoever can play SS the best, but since Gonzalez should be back soon, whether its Castro or one of the others, I doubt they are around long. This team needs to clear the Freel/Hopper redundancy soon.

Hopefully one of them gets traded before Monday, which will solve that dilemma.

reds44
03-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Hopefully one of them gets traded before Monday, which will solve that dilemma.
Which begs the question would you rather have Hopper's high average (for now), good speed, and good baserunning or Freel's expierence and versatility? The fact that the two positives I have for Freel are versatility and expierence combined with his big pay day tells me I'd rather have Hopper.

mth123
03-27-2008, 09:17 PM
Which begs the question would you rather have Hopper's high average (for now), good speed, and good baserunning or Freel's expierence and versatility?

I'd rather have Freel. Its not even close. And I'm not a huge Freel fan.

SMcGavin
03-27-2008, 09:25 PM
I'd rather have Freel. Its not even close. And I'm not a huge Freel fan.

Me too. Really Freel's whole career other than 2007 he has been a decent hitter. I think Hopper in 08 is going to be less than decent.

KronoRed
03-28-2008, 01:45 AM
Of the 3, Freel, Hopper and Patterson I'd take Freel 1st, then Hopper, then Reggie Taylor then Patterson ;)

Funny it looks like it will be Freel who goes.

Jpup
03-28-2008, 01:52 AM
Of the 3, Freel, Hopper and Patterson I'd take Freel 1st, then Hopper, then Reggie Taylor then Patterson ;)

Funny it looks like it will be Freel who goes.

I'll take Jay Bruce. After him it's gotta be Freel.

Screwball
03-28-2008, 01:53 AM
I nominate this the most boring and uninteresting roster battle in the history of baseball.

Seconded.

mth123
03-28-2008, 04:44 AM
Of the 3, Freel, Hopper and Patterson I'd take Freel 1st, then Hopper, then Reggie Taylor then Patterson ;)

Funny it looks like it will be Freel who goes.

I take Patterson over Hopper and Freel as the everyday CF.

I take Freel over Hopper as a bench player.

I take Hopper as emergency depth to be stashed at AAA.

Marty and Joe
03-28-2008, 06:37 AM
Doesn't Hopper still have options?

I agree with others that I'd take Freel over Hopper in a heartbeat. I imagine other teams would also.

traderumor
03-28-2008, 07:34 AM
Andy Green is 29 and has never had much success outside of the PCL, especially when it comes to power. Mediocre contact, good plate discipline, little power. I'd still take him over Jolbert Cabrera.

I must say, it's interesting how when it comes to spring training, most of the sabermetric types want to ignore the stats and get the scouting reports, whereas the scouting types tend to cite the numbers. Not a value judgment -- just an observation.

I would submit that is because stat-oriented folks realize that ST numbers are useless as indicators and that the value of scouting and inside information (e.g. were they working on something?) is more important for making decisions, whereas the scouting types like a guy for some reason and root for him although they know that the guy will probably not be successful when the bell rings, but there is that chance that he will be the 1 in a 1,000 career season guy, and well, look at his ST numbers.

Plus, deep down, most folks are hybrids of stats/scouts. I think this phenomenon reveals it.

RANDY IN INDY
03-28-2008, 08:54 AM
"When," you play in spring games often has a lot to do with your stats. Most of the scouts know the players who are going to answer the bell and are usually very aware of the things that happen in spring training. With that said, there are always going to be a few guys that get "pigeon holed" as career minor leaguers who probably could have been pretty good at the big league level. I think that is the exception and not the norm.

Highlifeman21
03-28-2008, 09:52 AM
Which begs the question would you rather have Hopper's high average (for now), good speed, and good baserunning or Freel's expierence and versatility? The fact that the two positives I have for Freel are versatility and expierence combined with his big pay day tells me I'd rather have Hopper.

Freel brings more than experience and versatility to the table, IMO. Freel is more than a 1 trick pony at the plate. He doesn't rely on a high BABIP which translates to a high AVG, which is the main component of Hopper's OBP. If Hopper could take more walks, then I think we'd see his BABIP continue to be high, due to the fact that better/higher plate discipline/pitch recognition would lead to Hopper getting better pitches to hit and put in play. Unfortunately, Hopper doesn't walk enough, and relies heavily on his speed to get on base. That's not a bad thing, but I firmly believe that teams will make the necessary adjustments to negate Hopper's speed (ie defensive positioning to lessen infield hits, and bunts), in which case Hopper's value decreases exponentially.

Defensively, both are average at best, IMO. They take scenic routes to balls, and seem to get slow, or incorrect jumps and reads. Thankfully, they both have speed to make up in those areas.

I know Hopper can supposedly play 2B, but Freel can play all 3 OF positions, and 3B and 2B if necessary. If they both made the same amount of coin, I'd still pick Freel over Hopper 8 days a week due to the fact Freel has a more rounded offensive game. If Hopper could find more gaps in the OF and really use his speed, then I'd say Hopper, b/c I think Hopper's faster than Freel and a little smarter on the basepaths. Unfortunately, Hopper has a ridiculously high GB%, and his SLG will continue to be low due to the fact that he's a singles hitter.

RANDY IN INDY
03-28-2008, 09:55 AM
Agree, Highlifeman. For me, unless Freel can bring a really useful piece, I take him on this roster over Hopper every day of the week.

KronoRed
03-28-2008, 02:05 PM
I take Patterson over Hopper and Freel as the everyday CF.


Defensively sure, but the Dusty rule that the CF also bats leadoff makes me want him off the roster more then anything right now.