Reason For Lack Of Cuts

[Rounding Third]

Per John Fay


Freel deal

The reason for the lack of cuts? It could be because the Reds are trying to move Ryan Freel. I've heard calls have gone out to Philadelphia, Minnesota and others.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2008/03/freel-deal.asp

I am curious to who they are looking for in Minnesota. Would they look to get Helms from Philly or just some prospects? The Reds supposedly said no for Stanton for Helms though.

[NDReds9]

So don't cut Freel. Not like he would be cut anyway.

Cut the guys who 1) won't make the club for sure, and 2) no one else wants.

Hairston
Cabrera
Brower
Capellan
--------------

And if I could have my way, I'd get Patterson out of here too, along with cheating Stanton.

[BLEEDS]

Interesting, because I was just looking at this:

Players still in camp:

Pitchers (17)
25 David Weathers
29 Mike Stanton
31 Matt Belisle
33 Josh Fogg
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
45 Bill Bray
48 Francisco Cordero
50 Kent Mercker
51 Jared Burton
52 Jim Brower
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto
84 Mike Lincoln
-- Jose Capallan

Catchers (3)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin
26 David Ross

Infielders (10)
2 Alex Gonzalez
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
15 Jerry Hairston, Jr.
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion
46 Andy Phillips
54 Jolbert Cabrera

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn

What in the world is keeping us from shipping out Brower, Lincoln, Capellan, Hairston, APhillips, and Cabrera like LAST WEEK. That would put us only at 30... 5 more to go...

Belisle to AAA so he can start every 5th day.

Gonzalez is on the DL, DUH.

Ross or Bako to get to 2 catchers.

2 Left.

Castro/Mercker/Stanton/Bray - pick 2.

IMO, if we're trading Freel, it's so we can keep 3 catchers and use Valentin as a PH. (A rumor I heard, but makes so NOT sense that it probably will happen).

I like this one from the ORG:

"Maybe Dusty is waiting for the same thing we've all been wishing for: A soft, easy pop up to Castro, who is suddenly attacked by a stray Bengal Tiger.
That would solve at least one problem. And, if said tiger went into the bullpen for a while, perhaps a couple of more."
:thumbup:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Rounding Third]

So don't cut Freel. Not like he would be cut anyway.

Cut the guys who 1) won't make the club for sure, and 2) no one else wants.

Hairston
Cabrera
Brower
Capellan
--------------

And if I could have my way, I'd get Patterson out of here too, along with cheating Stanton.

They aren't going to cut Freel. They aren't cutting people until they move Freel, if they can. Depends on who they get in return as to who will be cut or not.

[fadetoblack2880]

I would love to see Freel dealt. Even if it's for a lesser known minor league player.

[757690]

Interesting, because I was just looking at this:

Players still in camp:

Pitchers (17)
25 David Weathers
29 Mike Stanton
31 Matt Belisle
33 Josh Fogg
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
45 Bill Bray
48 Francisco Cordero
50 Kent Mercker
51 Jared Burton
52 Jim Brower
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto
84 Mike Lincoln
-- Jose Capallan

Catchers (3)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin
26 David Ross

Infielders (10)
2 Alex Gonzalez
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
15 Jerry Hairston, Jr.
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion
46 Andy Phillips
54 Jolbert Cabrera

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn

What in the world is keeping us from shipping out Brower, Lincoln, Capellan, Hairston, APhillips, and Cabrera like LAST WEEK. That would put us only at 30... 5 more to go...

Belisle to AAA so he can start every 5th day.

Gonzalez is on the DL, DUH.

Ross or Bako to get to 2 catchers.

2 Left.

Castro/Mercker/Stanton/Bray - pick 2.

IMO, if we're trading Freel, it's so we can keep 3 catchers and use Valentin as a PH. (A rumor I heard, but makes so NOT sense that it probably will happen).

I like this one from the ORG:

"Maybe Dusty is waiting for the same thing we've all been wishing for: A soft, easy pop up to Castro, who is suddenly attacked by a stray Bengal Tiger.
That would solve at least one problem. And, if said tiger went into the bullpen for a while, perhaps a couple of more."
:thumbup:

PEACE

-BLEEDS


I agree about Brower, Belisle Gonzalez and Ross or Bako.

But they are probably trying to work out a trade for Cappelan, and Lincoln, Hairston, Cabrera and A.Phillips could still make the club.
Lincoln has been throwing 94+ and getting outs, and the other three are battling for the position available if Freel is traded.

And Castro will make the team as long as Agon is on the DL. Deal with it.

[CarolinaRedleg]

I like this one from the ORG:

"Maybe Dusty is waiting for the same thing we've all been wishing for: A soft, easy pop up to Castro, who is suddenly attacked by a stray Bengal Tiger.
That would solve at least one problem. And, if said tiger went into the bullpen for a while, perhaps a couple of more."
:thumbup:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Then again, when was the last time Bengals took care of anything in Cincinnati?

Sorry, that was just too easy to pass on :D

[Mr.MojoRisin]

Personally I'd hate to see Freel go. He seems to have so much potential and could be a real power player.

[FlightRick]

I would love to see Freel dealt. Even if it's for a lesser known minor league player.

As has been touched on in the ORG, but not so much in any of the threads here, that's almost CERTAINLY the kind of deal they'd want to make with Freel.

For all the hand-wringing and kvetching people are doing over the 25-man roster, the real tough decisions are related to managing the 40-man between now and Monday. The 25-man is a piece of cake (well, unless you're a Bailey- or Bruce-hugger), comparatively speaking.

Patterson and Cueto aren't on the 40-man; they'll need to be by Monday. If we decide we need Bako, he needs a spot. Mercker has pitched well enough to be under consideration but he, too, is a non-roster invitee. And three-quarters of the names under discussion for the fabled "25th roster spot" are NRIs, too (though I can't see bending over backwards to accomodate somebody like a Jerry Hairston).

Even if Gonzalez, Belisle, and Ross all start on the 25-day DL, they're still taking up spots on the 40-man. I can't remember, but we're either running at a full 40 or at 39, right now. Just DFA'ing Castro and Stanton might sound like a swell idea to some, but that just ain't happening. We need to invent 2-3 more roster spots using other means.

As a result, trading Freel (and/or Hatteberg) for a prospects seems like it might make sense in more than one way.


Rick

[fadetoblack2880]

I don't hate Freel, I would just prefer someone, anyone else in his roster spot. He plays very recklessly. He has some upside, but just as much downside.

[fadetoblack2880]

As has been touched on in the ORG, but not so much in any of the threads here, that's almost CERTAINLY the kind of deal they'd want to make with Freel.

For all the hand-wringing and kvetching people are doing over the 25-man roster, the real tough decisions are related to managing the 40-man between now and Monday. The 25-man is a piece of cake (well, unless you're a Bailey- or Bruce-hugger), comparatively speaking.

Patterson and Cueto aren't on the 40-man; they'll need to be by Monday. If we decide we need Bako, he needs a spot. Mercker has pitched well enough to be under consideration but he, too, is a non-roster invitee. And three-quarters of the names under discussion for the fabled "25th roster spot" are NRIs, too (though I can't see bending over backwards to accomodate somebody like a Jerry Hairston).

Even if Gonzalez, Belisle, and Ross all start on the 25-day DL, they're still taking up spots on the 40-man. I can't remember, but we're either running at a full 40 or at 39, right now. Just DFA'ing Castro and Stanton might sound like a swell idea to some, but that just ain't happening. We need to invent 2-3 more roster spots using other means.

As a result, trading Freel (and/or Hatteberg) for a prospects seems like it might make sense in more than one way.


Rick

Well said. Cutting Castro and Stanton won't happen due to the money factor. I wouldn't mind seeing this take place, but why not deal these guys for anything you can get and hope for the best. A low level guy couldn't be much worse than having a crew of aging players take up roster spots that could be given to young guys who still have potential.

[roby]

I would love to see Freel dealt. Even if it's for a lesser known minor league player.

Why? Freel can be a really good contributor off the bench. It's not as though he is worthless!

[BigRed]

I don't think you give him away, either. However, if somone is willing to pay the salary and we can get a catcher or a young arm, I would do it.

[Johnny Cueto]

Freel deserves to go to a team that needs him. I like the Brayan Pena for Freel deal. Would that be possible?

[mlbfan30]

What I hate about dumping a player that should not be on the roster like Stanton/Castro is that it's going to cost money. It's going to cost money if they are on the team, or off the team. There is no difference except maybe 400k between DFA Stanton to bring up Pellend, where Pellend would actually help the team win... or any minor league.

When a player becomes BELOW replacement level, the cost (game wise) of keeping them is a LOT worse than cutting them and using a replacement player. It just doesn't make sense to hurt the team just because he has a bigger contract. Castro at 1M is only .5M over the league minimum... its not hard to just release him. You might get 1M production from 1.5M (minor leaguer), as oppose to 0M production from 1M (Castro). Same thing for Stanton. I'm 100% positive that Roenicke would be worth a 500K upgrade over Stanton. That's basically what they should be doing. Trying to trade Freel when he's at his lowest trade value is pointless, especially since he can help the team.

[Rounding Third]

Why? Freel can be a really good contributor off the bench. It's not as though he is worthless!

Its just his contract is too much to be paying a backup. Now if he was going to be playing 5 or so games a week at multiple positions and he would stay health, then it would be fine. But there isn't any more room for him and he hasn't been healhty.


I don't think you give him away, either. However, if somone is willing to pay the salary and we can get a catcher or a young arm, I would do it.

I think thats the biggest thing, unload his salary. Anything else we get is just icing on the cake.

[StrikeIndicator]

A good detective, looking deeply to see why there are still so many NRI and 40 MR players you will probably find Dusty Baker's fingerprint.

I have seen other instances of it this ST and was happy to see it.

All you have to do is follow the money and look to the future. Dusty wants to be in this for the long haul.

money

the minor league guys still on the 40 man or NRI get paid both per diem meal money and housing money, which compared to their minor league salary for the year is significant.

In the past, the reds have reassigned minor league guys during ST and the regular "so that they can get more work" (translation:move your locker to the other side of the room and we do not have to pay you)
this spring, they had more of the major leaguers pitch minor league games

Dusty know that he will be able to get better folks into camp if they know that the team is not going to nickle and dime them during spring training. Remember 2006 when they sent Deno down only to bring him back up at the very end of ST to the 25 man.

Saving $$ while _issing Off the help. Not Dusty's style. Just look at the Brad Salmon deal, he helped Dusty and the club out when they needed a spot on the 40 man rooster for a starting pitcher, and they found him a new home, where they needed his kind of talent, in a timeframe that he could show them what he could do.

[rogue1973]

I think it would be a mistake to let Lincoln go. I've seen him a couple of times at spring training, and he's looking pretty good. Remember, this guy hasn't pitched in a game since 2004. If he can stay healthy (he's throwing 95mph+), he has the potential to really help this bullpen.

[BLEEDS]

I guess if they trade Freel, they will need to get some IF guy - otherwise they'll have to keep Hairston, Jr. (and make some other moves)

I still say Stanton for Helms would have been a better idea...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[I(heart)Freel]

According to ENQ blog:

The Reds optioned Bill Bray to Louisville, re-assigned Andy Phillips to the minor league camp, and returned Jose Cappellan to the Red Sox