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OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:02 AM
Brower, Cabrera, Hairston cut

The Reds re-assigned RHP Jim Brower, IF/OF Jolbert Cabrera and IF/OF Jerry Hairston Jr. to the minor league camp.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/

I'm surprised about Hairston, I thought he would make the team.

westofyou
03-29-2008, 11:04 AM
I'm surprised about Hairston, I thought he would make the team.

Why?

Because he played for Dusty?

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:07 AM
Why?

Because he played for Dusty?

He lasted this long, plus Dusty has said some nice things about him. I preferred him over guys like Cabrera and Andy Phillips. Turns out they all got cut.

westofyou
03-29-2008, 11:10 AM
He lasted this long, plus Dusty has said some nice things about him. I preferred him over guys like Cabrera and Andy Phillips. Turns out they all got cut.

cream rises and other bodies descend.

Hairston is 2nd baseman, on a team that has 2 guys that can do it in their sleep.

He's injury insurance... as for the "nice" things he said, you remember them and Jerry probably does to... that's part of what managing is all about, stoking the flames creating a positive atmosphere in the workplace.

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:11 AM
That puts the Reds at 28 healthy players. Wayne Krivsky told John Erardi that Matt Belisle will start the year on rehab. Mike Stanton is going to be designated, so you've got 26.

My guess is Paul Bako goes or they do something with Norris Hopper -- unless they can swing a trade.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/

fearofpopvol1
03-29-2008, 11:14 AM
Barring a trade, I think without a doubt it's Bako that goes unless Ross isn't ready (though all signs point to him supposedly being ready). If Ross isn't ready, he'll start the year on the DL and Bako will remain.

cincy09
03-29-2008, 11:14 AM
Sounds like it's time to head north!

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:23 AM
I wish they would hurry and finalize the roster so I can see what number Cueto is going to wear. :) I may have to buy me a jersey...

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:25 AM
Another update. Looks like freaking Paul Bako will make the team. How many stolen bases will the DBacks get on Opening Day? 20? Bako can't throw to save his life.


It looks like catcher David Ross (back) will begin the year on the DL.

"We wanted to test to see where he's at," Wayne Krivsky said. "He missed 75 percent of the game."

Norris Hopper missed a couple of days with a death in the family. He's back in Sarasota. He'll be on the 25-man roster.

"We've talked to everybody," Krivsky said. "It won't be official until Monday."

The Reds have to clear spots on the 40-man for Kent Mercker, Paul Bako, Johnny Cueto, Mike Lincoln and Corey Patterson.

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 11:25 AM
Here's the roster:

Starting lineup:
Corey Patterson CF
Jeff Keppinger SS
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Adam Dunn LF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Joey Votto 1B
Paul Bako/Javy Valentin C

Bench
Ryan Freel INF/OF
Juan Castro INF
Scott Hatteberg 1B
Norris Hopper OF

Rotation
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Johnny Cueto
Josh Fogg
Edinson Volquez

Bullpen
Francisco Cordero
David Weathers
Todd Coffey
Kent Mercker
Jared Burton
Jeremy Affeldt
Mike Lincoln

DL: SS Alex Gonzalez, C David Ross and P Matt Belisle.

fearofpopvol1
03-29-2008, 11:57 AM
Bako is not good, but I mean, what else are the Reds going to do with Ross being injurred? The same really can be said about Castro.

I'm actually pretty satisfied with the way things look. I'd like to see Bray instead of Mercker and Roenicke over Lincoln, but other than that, I think this is a good use of the roster given the resources and injurries. If Bray isn't ready, then Mercker makes sense and I guess I'm not opposed to giving Lincoln a shot, even though I've heard he has control issues.

Big Klu
03-29-2008, 12:12 PM
Players still in camp:

Pitchers (13)
25 David Weathers
31 Matt Belisle
33 Josh Fogg
36 Edinson Volquez
39 Aaron Harang
41 Jeremy Affeldt
48 Francisco Cordero
50 Kent Mercker
51 Jared Burton
56 Todd Coffey
61 Bronson Arroyo
77 Johnny Cueto
84 Mike Lincoln

Catchers (3)
9 Paul Bako
17 Javier Valentin
26 David Ross

Infielders (7)
2 Alex Gonzalez
4 Brandon Phillips
7 Juan Castro
19 Joey Votto
21 Scott Hatteberg
27 Jeff Keppinger
28 Edwin Encarnacion

Outfielders (5)
3 Ken Griffey, Jr.
6 Ryan Freel
23 Corey Patterson
30 Norris Hopper
44 Adam Dunn



Matt Belisle, David Ross, and Alex Gonzalez will all likely be headed to the disabled list.

CTA513
03-29-2008, 12:20 PM
I hope Ross gets healthy soon.

VR
03-29-2008, 12:21 PM
It looks like catcher David Ross (back) will begin the year on the DL.

"We wanted to test to see where he's at," Wayne Krivsky said. "He missed 75 percent of the game."


This seems like a good scenario. He's gotten into a couple games of ST, had good success, now gets his conditioning/ health back in order for the long haul.

I just hope Nacho brought the pre-2006 version of his arm....not the 12% CS version of last year.

At least Ross is able to shut down the opponents running game...and that will be critical to not have established early.

Big Klu
03-29-2008, 12:35 PM
I wish they would hurry and finalize the roster so I can see what number Cueto is going to wear. :) I may have to buy me a jersey...

Current numbers that are available are 16, 29, 53, and 57. Or he might keep 77.

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 12:42 PM
Current numbers that are available are 16, 29, 53, and 57. Or he might keep 77.

He wore #45 at Sarasota, #40 at Chattanooga, and #20 in winter ball. Bray wears #45, Coutlangus wears #40, and #20 is available so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he wears.

Big Klu
03-29-2008, 12:59 PM
He wore #45 at Sarasota, #40 at Chattanooga, and #20 in winter ball. Bray wears #45, Coutlangus wears #40, and #20 is available so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he wears.

#20 is retired--some guy named Frank Robinson wore it. :cool:

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 01:03 PM
#20 is retired--some guy named Frank Robinson wore it. :cool:

Geez. I'm an idiot. I knew that but it just totally slipped my mind. Sheesh. :D

Kc61
03-29-2008, 01:19 PM
If you view Castro, Lincoln and Bako as injury replacements for Gonzalez, Bray/Belisle, and Ross, the Reds are definitely an improved team on paper.

At full strength, the bench is Hatteberg, Freel, Keppinger, Valentin, and Hopper. Not bad.

Keys to the season are young starting pitching and the bullpen.

OnBaseMachine
03-29-2008, 01:22 PM
Keys to the season are young starting pitching and the bullpen.

I just hope Krivsky has a short leash with the bullpen early in the season. If Kent Mercker and Mike Lincoln are getting rocked after four or five appearances then send them down and bring up Bill Bray and Josh Roenicke or Marcus McBeth.

gm
03-29-2008, 01:39 PM
He wore #45 at Sarasota, #40 at Chattanooga, and #20 in winter ball. Bray wears #45, Coutlangus wears #40, and #20 is available so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he wears.

I'm guessing he'll get Stanton's #29

(For 15fan's sake let's hope JC isn't assigned George Foster's retro number...that didn't work out so well for Hairston)

11larkin11
03-29-2008, 02:14 PM
As soon as the following take place, I'll be happy.

Gonzalez comes back to take over for Castro
Ross comes back to take over for Bako
Belisle comes back to take over for Lincoln
Bray comes back to take over for Mercker

reds44
03-29-2008, 02:40 PM
As soon as the following take place, I'll be happy.

Gonzalez comes back to take over for Castro
Ross comes back to take over for Bako
Belisle comes back to take over for Lincoln
Bray comes back to take over for Mercker
Exactly. Right now there is a lot of ugliness on the roster.

mth123
03-29-2008, 03:54 PM
As soon as the following take place, I'll be happy.

Gonzalez comes back to take over for Castro
Ross comes back to take over for Bako
Belisle comes back to take over for Lincoln
Bray comes back to take over for Mercker

Don't be surprised if Belisle ends up taking over for Burton.

flyer85
03-29-2008, 04:02 PM
Don't be surprised if Belisle ends up taking over for Burton.
Unless someone in the rotation bites the dust I expect to see Belisle pitching as a starter in AAA.

mth123
03-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Unless someone in the rotation bites the dust I expect to see Belisle pitching as a starter in AAA.

Or Belisle joins the rotation, Fogg to long relief and a reliever bites the dust. I think Burton is most likely to be a batting tee at this point but really anyone but Cordero or Weathers has to be a suspect with a very short leash.

This team needs a "6th starter," as Davey Johnson used to say. With Cueto only 22 and looking like he could be a high pitch count guy, a "tandem starter" guy would be an investment that may pay off in preserving his long term health. Its a better use of the mop up role than the usual emergency reliever who is on the staff because he's cheap and helps the budget. I have a feeling there will be a lot of 5 and outs when Cueto pitches.

red-in-la
03-29-2008, 04:23 PM
Or Belisle joins the rotation, Fogg to long relief and a reliever bites the dust. I think Burton is most likely to be a batting tee at this point but really anyone but Cordero or Weathers has to be a suspect with a very short leash.

This team needs a "6th starter," as Davey Johnson used to say. With Cueto only 22 and looking like he could be a high pitch count guy, a "tandem starter" guy would be an investment that may pay off in preserving his long term health. Its a better use of the mop up role than the usual emergency reliever who is on the staff because he's cheap and helps the budget. I have a feeling there will be a lot of 5 and outs when Cueto pitches.

Oh, sure, NOW we need MORE starting pitching?

mth123
03-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Oh, sure, NOW we need MORE starting pitching?

I don't know anyone who ever said we didn't. I think Cueto is a long term asset. If carrying a long reliever over some other guy who is likely to be 12th man on the staff keeps him healthy why not do it?

For the record, I've said all along that the Reds need more starting pitching. I still think they are in decent shape compared to the competition, but all teams need more. I just didn't want to trade Bruce, Bailey or Cueto for a rental and I still wouldn't. I was in favor of dealing EdE, Maloney, Stubbs, etc. Votto, if we must, but reluctantly.

mth123
03-29-2008, 04:38 PM
BTW, when I quote Davey Johnson's "6th starter" terminology, I'm not advocating a 6 man rotation. But a long reliever/swingman that is stretched out to the point of being capable of starting when needed or going 4 or 5 innings out of the pen. I think Fogg is a natural for that role.

I forgot that Davey may pre-date some of our posters and many may not be familiar with the term.

WVRedsFan
03-29-2008, 04:51 PM
Unless someone in the rotation bites the dust I expect to see Belisle pitching as a starter in AAA.

With 2 kids in the rotation, you just never know. Volquez and Cueto might be world beaters this year, but kids being kids, they might blow up, too. Likely one or the other if not both, will. That's where Matt comes in to start. It's nice insurance anyway.

Highlifeman21
03-29-2008, 05:04 PM
The problem with Belisle not being 100% is that right now we're stuck with Fogg in the rotation.

The problem may be that once Belisle is 100%, we'll still be stuck with Fogg in the rotation.

Who likes Fogg, and who prefers Belisle?

Mark me down for Belisle everytime.

mth123
03-29-2008, 05:05 PM
The problem with Belisle not being 100% is that right now we're stuck with Fogg in the rotation.

The problem may be that once Belisle is 100%, we'll still be stuck with Fogg in the rotation.

Who likes Fogg, and who prefers Belisle?

Mark me down for Belisle everytime.

Belisle 100 times out of 100. But I think Fogg has value.

fearofpopvol1
03-29-2008, 05:53 PM
Once Belisle is healthy, I'd love to see him be the 5th starter and Fogg in relief unless Fogg is outperforming Belisle, which is possible. I think we need a so-called "6th starter" as well

Spitball
03-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Current numbers that are available are 16, 29, 53, and 57. Or he might keep 77.

Number 57 is Johan Santana's number. Number 29 is John Smoltz's number and was once worn by Canadien goalie Ken Dryden. Don Drysdale wore 53 and Whitey Ford number 16. I'm hoping he opts for 57, but number 16 would be okay.

Outside of Neagle, have the Reds had any pitchers with a number in the teens?

RedsManRick
03-29-2008, 06:24 PM
I think Fogg is going to have a somewhat rough time of it in the rotation. Belisle, if healthy, is a better bet for success.

Looking at least year, Fogg walked more (3.21 vs 2.18 BB/9), struck out fewer (5.11 vs 6.33 K/9), gave up homers and hits at virtually the same rate (1.25 vs 1.32 and 1.17 vs 1.19). Unfortunately, his new defense is significantly worse, his new park is more homer prone (it's true!), and his middle relief isn't as good, leading to fewer stranded runners and more earned runs. And Fogg has 4 years on Belisle so there's less chance for growth. If a rotation spot is up for grabs between them, it's hard to make a case for Fogg.

Highlifeman21
03-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Belisle 100 times out of 100. But I think Fogg has value.

Fogg has value as a LR, and a spot starter for this club, IMO.

I really hope we see less than 10 starts from Fogg in 2008. I'd rather him be the guy that serves a Tim Wakefield role for the team. Innings eater as a long-guy that saves the pen.

BoydsOfSummer
03-29-2008, 07:30 PM
I am sooo ready for opening day baseball...Big Daddy!

deltachi8
03-29-2008, 07:53 PM
... as for the "nice" things he said, you remember them and Jerry probably does to... that's part of what managing is all about, stoking the flames creating a positive atmosphere in the workplace.

Absolutely. Even those who are not fans of Dusty for whatever reason can hopefully see the value he brings to the squad in this area.

Big Klu
03-29-2008, 09:08 PM
Number 57 is Johan Santana's number. Number 29 is John Smoltz's number and was once worn by Canadien goalie Ken Dryden. Don Drysdale wore 53 and Whitey Ford number 16. I'm hoping he opts for 57, but number 16 would be okay.

Outside of Neagle, have the Reds had any pitchers with a number in the teens?

In addition to Denny Neagle (#15), Cory Lidle also wore #15.

buckeyenut
03-30-2008, 07:21 AM
People seem to forget that the season is 162 games, not just opening day. Guys like Lincoln and Mercker make the squad while guys like Roenicke and Bray go down so you have some depth. Both those kids will get a shot this year, but if you cut someone like Lincoln or Mercker, they are gone and you lose the depth in the organization you might need for the season.

That is a big reason why you often see vets get the nods over kids coming out of spring training. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

princeton
03-30-2008, 07:41 AM
In addition to Denny Neagle (#15), Cory Lidle also wore #15.

15Fan's cue...

mth123
03-30-2008, 10:26 AM
People seem to forget that the season is 162 games, not just opening day. Guys like Lincoln and Mercker make the squad while guys like Roenicke and Bray go down so you have some depth. Both those kids will get a shot this year, but if you cut someone like Lincoln or Mercker, they are gone and you lose the depth in the organization you might need for the season.

That is a big reason why you often see vets get the nods over kids coming out of spring training. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

:clap:

VR
03-30-2008, 11:05 AM
People seem to forget that the season is 162 games, not just opening day. Guys like Lincoln and Mercker make the squad while guys like Roenicke and Bray go down so you have some depth. Both those kids will get a shot this year, but if you cut someone like Lincoln or Mercker, they are gone and you lose the depth in the organization you might need for the season.

That is a big reason why you often see vets get the nods over kids coming out of spring training. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

Very well said buckeyenut

edabbs44
03-30-2008, 11:47 AM
People seem to forget that the season is 162 games, not just opening day. Guys like Lincoln and Mercker make the squad while guys like Roenicke and Bray go down so you have some depth. Both those kids will get a shot this year, but if you cut someone like Lincoln or Mercker, they are gone and you lose the depth in the organization you might need for the season.

That is a big reason why you often see vets get the nods over kids coming out of spring training. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

I think there is a lot of value in this post, but whoever is calling the shots has to be sure that the performance from guys like Lincoln and Mercker doesn't negate the value of the accumulated depth.

A deep pool of crap isn't exactly a good thing.

Tom Servo
03-30-2008, 11:50 AM
People seem to forget that the season is 162 games, not just opening day. Guys like Lincoln and Mercker make the squad while guys like Roenicke and Bray go down so you have some depth. Both those kids will get a shot this year, but if you cut someone like Lincoln or Mercker, they are gone and you lose the depth in the organization you might need for the season.

That is a big reason why you often see vets get the nods over kids coming out of spring training. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.
Very well said. I personally think it should also be noted that as much as all of us love young guys, veterans CAN have some success. Sure there's your Mike Stanton's and Juan Castro's, but don't forget the David Weathers and Scott Hatteberg's. Every year people (admitattly myself included) want to dump those two and every year they put up good numbers. Age isn't everything.

Matt700wlw
03-30-2008, 12:44 PM
Another update. Looks like freaking Paul Bako will make the team. How many stolen bases will the DBacks get on Opening Day? 20? Bako can't throw to save his life.



Neither can Javy.

Matt700wlw
03-30-2008, 12:46 PM
#20 is retired--some guy named Frank Robinson wore it. :cool:

Who's he? :D

Caveat Emperor
03-30-2008, 12:50 PM
Current numbers that are available are 16, 29, 53, and 57. Or he might keep 77.

I hope he keeps 77 -- wear it as a badge of honor that you walked into spring training with a number that usually gets the first bus ticket back to the minors, and you walked out of training camp as (by all rights) the #3 starter on the ballclub.

KronoRed
03-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Neither can Javy.

Eh who needs D

Unassisted
05-30-2008, 11:02 PM
Brower has been traded to the Cubs.

http://www.newsobserver.com/1577/story/1090792.html



Brower dealt from Reds to Cubs
The Associated Press
CINCINNATI - Right-hander Jim Brower was traded Friday from the Cincinnati Reds to the Chicago Cubs for cash.

Brower was 0-1 with a 2.88 ERA and two saves in 17 relief appearances for Triple-A Louisville.

The Reds also sold the minor league contract of right-hander Tom Shearn to Samsung of the Korean Professional League.

The 30-year-old Shearn finally made it to the major leagues last season, going 3-0 in six starts and one relief appearance late in the year. He was 6-2 with a 4.53 ERA in 10 starts for Louisville this year.

Spring~Fields
05-30-2008, 11:11 PM
Jocketty weeding out the older ones to make room.

buckeyenut
05-31-2008, 07:03 AM
Interesting. I guess that signals a recognition that veteran depth won't be needed this year for a playoff run and we can run with the kids if someone gets hurt at ML level.

wheels
05-31-2008, 07:38 AM
Jocketty's cleaning house.

I wonder what's next on his agenda.

MikeS21
05-31-2008, 08:13 AM
It sounds as if Jocketty is trying to build up some cash. I wonder if Castelinni has told him that he is not eating any more contracts unless Jocketty can figure out a way to pay fo them.

Plus, with the draft coming next week, this could be a precursor to minor league promotions.

Degenerate39
05-31-2008, 09:03 AM
I didn't realize this was an old thread. I wondered how they were going to cut Hairston.

Screwball
05-31-2008, 02:14 PM
I didn't realize this was an old thread. I wondered how they were going to cut Hairston.

:lol: I did the same thing.