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redhawk61
03-30-2008, 03:06 PM
From MLBTR

# The Reds have put Ryan Freel on the market, but more teams appear to be interested in Scott Hatteberg. However, Rosenthal indicates that it is unlikely for the Red to trade Hatteberg even if Joey Votto is named the starter.
# The Tigers, Reds and Orioles all tried to acquire backup catcher Brayan Pena from the Braves, but the Braves do not appear interested in letting him go

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 03:27 PM
I don't like that he is unwilling to deal Hatteberg. After his year last year and a strong spring his trade value is just about as high is it is going to get. Votto played well enough last year to show he is ready. Flip Hatteberg and Freel for some talent, there are people that can replace both of them.

FlyingPig
03-30-2008, 04:53 PM
I keep looking to see if the Reds might have interest in former Brave catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who failed to make the big team in Texas..

Wouldn't he fill a pretty big need in Cincinnati?

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 04:55 PM
There has been talk about that. Although Salty is a young, offensive minded catcher and the Reds seem like they would rather have a veteren that can handle the young pitchers of Cueto, Volquez and eventually Bailey.

Thats why Gerald Laird has been mentioned. He is a good defensive catcher and can handle a pitching staff.

FlyingPig
03-30-2008, 04:57 PM
Didnt Laird beat out Salty as the starting catcher in Texas?

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 04:58 PM
Didnt Laird beat out Salty as the starting catcher in Texas?

Yes, I believe Laird is slated to be the starting catcher.

jmac
03-30-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't like that he is unwilling to deal Hatteberg. After his year last year and a strong spring his trade value is just about as high is it is going to get. Votto played well enough last year to show he is ready. Flip Hatteberg and Freel for some talent, there are people that can replace both of them.

Hatteberg traded would certainly hurt our bench.
Dont know who exactly would take their spot since Bruce needs to play every day.
Also, I think Hatteberg helps this team more than the player they will probably get for him.

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 05:07 PM
Hatteberg traded would certainly hurt our bench.
Dont know who exactly would take their spot since Bruce needs to play every day.
Also, I think Hatteberg helps this team more than the player they will probably get for him.

Yes he would hurt the bench, I really do like Hatteberg. But with Andy Phillips in AAA, he gives us a solid backup 1B anyway. Jeff Keppinger is another option all over the IF.

Who would take Ryan Freel's spot? Well Corey Patterson already has taken CF. Then Norris Hopper as a the backup OF and splitting platoon with Patterson.

I don't know who the Reds could get for Hatteberg, but they could deal him for some prospects. The Reds got a couple good young players for Jeff Conine, I think they could get even better with Hatteberg.

ChatterRed
03-30-2008, 05:09 PM
Trade Texas, Bailey for Salty straight up.

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 05:12 PM
Trade Texas, Bailey for Salty straight up.

My stomach hurts thinking of that. Trading the #9 baseball prospect in baseball at his lowest point is a bad idea period.

ChatterRed
03-30-2008, 05:14 PM
Volquez and Cueto are the real deal. Bailey is not. Trade him while he still has value.

The Reds desperately need a catcher.

PastAndPending
03-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Yes he would hurt the bench, I really do like Hatteberg. But with Andy Phillips in AAA, he gives us a solid backup 1B anyway. Jeff Keppinger is another option all over the IF.

Who would take Ryan Freel's spot? Well Corey Patterson already has taken CF. Then Norris Hopper as a the backup OF and splitting platoon with Patterson.

I don't know who the Reds could get for Hatteberg, but they could deal him for some prospects. The Reds got a couple good young players for Jeff Conine, I think they could get even better with Hatteberg.


No, sorry, Patterson was GIVEN CF by Dusty Baker. A move made based solely on pure favoritism. This kind of **** is why Dusty will fail.

Hopper <=> Freel > Patterson

BigREDSfaninKY
03-30-2008, 05:18 PM
If you trade Hatteberg, you would lose all those "professional at bats" that Welch and Grande like to talk about.

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 05:19 PM
No, sorry, Patterson was GIVEN CF by Dusty Baker. A move made based solely on pure favoritism. This kind of **** is why Dusty will fail.

Hopper <=> Freel > Patterson

Correct.

He was given the CF job before he signed.


If you trade Hatteberg, you would lose all those "professional at bats" that Welch and Grande like to talk about.

False.

Jeff Keppinger. And don't forget Jeff Brantley loves him as well.

PastAndPending
03-30-2008, 05:57 PM
False.

Jeff Keppinger. And don't forget Jeff Brantley loves him as well.

Keppinger's praise is warranted:thumbup:

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 06:06 PM
Keppinger's praise is warranted:thumbup:

Yeah it is, but so is Hatteberg when talking about being a "professional hitter." Every at bat Hatteberg will work the pitcher and only swing at what he knows he can hit. That is why he gets on base a lot, patience.

Johnny Cueto
03-30-2008, 06:06 PM
What kind of return would we get for freel?

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 06:09 PM
What kind of return would we get for freel?

I haven't heard any names being mentioned for a return on Freel. I think the Reds just want to get rid of his salary and his spot on the 40 man roster and try to get a half decent prospect. Probably nothing that will help this team this year, but who knows.

SultanOfSwing
03-30-2008, 06:50 PM
No, sorry, Patterson was GIVEN CF by Dusty Baker. A move made based solely on pure favoritism. This kind of **** is why Dusty will fail.

Hopper <=> Freel > Patterson
I strongly disagree with this statement. I believe Patterson is the best CF on the 25 and I don't believe much argument can be made for the others. Now an argument can definitely be made against using him in the lead-off spot but not in CF, IMO.

redsfanmia
03-30-2008, 07:02 PM
Volquez and Cueto are the real deal. Bailey is not. Trade him while he still has value.

The Reds desperately need a catcher.

And you know this for sure? The kid gets people out when he gets it over the plate he just needs to work on his command and he will be a plus starter.

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Homer Bailey is 21 years old.

21 Years Old.

Read that? 21 Years Old. Relax.

Rounding Third
03-30-2008, 07:13 PM
I strongly disagree with this statement. I believe Patterson is the best CF on the 25 and I don't believe much argument can be made for the others. Now an argument can definitely be made against using him in the lead-off spot but not in CF, IMO.

Do you mean defensively? While Freel has better range, I would still give Patterson the edge in fielding. Offensively though, Patterson is not the best player for the CF this year.

Degenerate39
03-30-2008, 07:16 PM
Volquez and Cueto are the real deal. Bailey is not. Trade him while he still has value.
The Reds desperately need a catcher.

It's a little early for predictions like that

Va Red Fan
03-31-2008, 01:10 AM
Give Dusty a break. He is a good manager and needs our support, not a before opening day witch hunt this board often becomes.

Stephenk29
03-31-2008, 01:45 AM
Although Bailey's attitude is discouraging I'm far from ready to say he's not the real deal. Like mentioned above he's only 21. Although trading him straight up for Salty is a deal I would pull I believe.

BLEEDS
03-31-2008, 08:23 AM
Yes he would hurt the bench, I really do like Hatteberg. But with Andy Phillips in AAA, he gives us a solid backup 1B anyway. Jeff Keppinger is another option all over the IF.

ANY deal that ends up with us giving Keppinger more AB's is a good idea too me. I am starting to really believe in this guy. I think he's much better suited for 120 games than 160, but he should get 400 PA's, PRIMARILY in the #2 hole. THAT is his best Asset to this team, and he fits that role perfect (assuming he keeps near the same stat lines).

Ideally when AGon is ready to come off of the DL, he can quietly take his normal spot in the 7 hole, and we find a nice place for Kepp in the 2 hole. 1B/3B/OF/2B

Trade Hatteberg AND Freel, and put Kepp as the #1 Platoon/Off-Day guy for whoever needs their day of rest.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bounty37h
03-31-2008, 11:57 AM
No, sorry, Patterson was GIVEN CF by Dusty Baker. A move made based solely on pure favoritism. This kind of **** is why Dusty will fail.

Hopper <=> Freel > Patterson

Might want to give him a few games to even play before making any kind of ignorant statement like that, after all, he has won with other teams before, and well, we havent won in a long time with what we have had.

smoke6
03-31-2008, 12:06 PM
Do you mean defensively? While Freel has better range, I would still give Patterson the edge in fielding. Offensively though, Patterson is not the best player for the CF this year.

You think Freel has better range than CP based on what? Speed? I am willing to bet that CP is just as fast, if not faster than Freel AND CP has played OF his entire career (leads to better jumps etc).
I like Freel a lot, but he is a human wrecking ball. He puts himself (which I have no problem with) and others (here's where I have a problem) in harms way.

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 12:39 PM
You think Freel has better range than CP based on what? Speed? I am willing to bet that CP is just as fast, if not faster than Freel AND CP has played OF his entire career (leads to better jumps etc).
I like Freel a lot, but he is a human wrecking ball. He puts himself (which I have no problem with) and others (here's where I have a problem) in harms way.

Um I was going to go with Range Factor.

Ryan Freel's Career Range Factor for CF
2.30

Corey Patterson's Career Range Factor for CF
2.14

ChatterRed
03-31-2008, 01:20 PM
Um I was going to go with Range Factor.

Ryan Freel's Career Range Factor for CF
2.30

Corey Patterson's Career Range Factor for CF
2.14


Got any injury stats to make Freel look like a tool? You seem to back everything up with stats to make yourself look good.

The FACT IS......Ryan Freel is reckless and is not worth the money.

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 01:25 PM
Got any injury stats to make Freel look like a tool? You seem to back everything up with stats to make yourself look good.

The FACT IS......Ryan Freel is reckless and is not worth the money.

I don't know whats wrong with you, just calm down man.

I don't think Freel is worth the money and want him traded, so I don't know what the point is. I said Freel had better range than Patterson, but Patterson is better defensively overall. Maybe you should try to read? :beerme:

bubbachunk
03-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Posting in this heated thread.

Would not hurt me to see freel gone we can replace him

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 01:32 PM
Posting in this heated thread.

Would not hurt me to see freel gone we can replace him

Exactly, he already has been replaced by Dusty. They have a starting OF and a backup OF. They have good depth on the bench and need to unload Freel's salary. He was useful when he could start a couple days a week, and was needed to. But now there is no need for him with the roster lined up like this.

elfmanvt07
03-31-2008, 01:50 PM
At this point for this organization, Freel is nothing but a glorified backup. True, I personally love the way he plays. If he hit .040 more , we wouldn't even be talking about this. I feel that we have more pressing needs, however. If we could get a decent lefty reliever, I feel we should pull that trigger.

smoke6
03-31-2008, 01:54 PM
Um I was going to go with Range Factor.

Ryan Freel's Career Range Factor for CF
2.30

Corey Patterson's Career Range Factor for CF
2.14

HAHAHA! I didn't even know there was such a thing as "range factor"! That's garbage.

You mean to tell me some tool sat down and figured out a formula to determine somebody's range? There are 1,000 variables that would affect it.

I have heard it all.

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 01:55 PM
HAHAHA! I didn't even know there was such a thing as "range factor"! That's garbage.

You mean to tell me some tool sat down and figured out a formula to determine somebody's range? There are 1,000 variables that would affect it.

I have heard it all.

Glad we could have a mature conversation. :thumbup:

smoke6
03-31-2008, 02:03 PM
Glad we could have a mature conversation. :thumbup:

I'm not sure if I'm imagining your sarcasim or not, but I don't recall giving you a reason to get your panties in a wad. :thumbup::thumbup:

I did say CP was a better centerfielder than Freel (IMO) and "range factor" has to be the absolute biggest joke I have ever heard. Unless you're the one who came up with it, It wasn't an insult directed at you.

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm not sure if I'm imagining your sarcasim or not, but I don't recall giving you a reason to get your panties in a wad. :thumbup::thumbup:

I did say CP was a better centerfielder than Freel (IMO) and "range factor" has to be the absolute biggest joke I have ever heard. Unless you're the one who came up with it, It wasn't an insult directed at you.

You just completely denounced a pretty basic statistic without even knowing what is was and kept insulting players that have to reason to be called childish names.

Once again, I am confused by what your saying. I also have said that Patterson is a better CF...

And no I can't take credit for Range Factor, that belongs to one of the greatest minds in baseball that has been hired to help by a team that has won 2 world series in past 4 years.

smoke6
03-31-2008, 02:27 PM
You just completely denounced a pretty basic statistic without even knowing what is was and kept insulting players that have to reason to be called childish names.

Once again, I am confused by what your saying. I also have said that Patterson is a better CF...

And no I can't take credit for Range Factor, that belongs to one of the greatest minds in baseball that has been hired to help by a team that has won 2 world series in past 4 years.

Who did I call a childish name? I know the "greatest mind in baseball" your refering to and anyone who has actually played baseball at a high level knows that ranger factor is garbage.

Rounding Third
03-31-2008, 06:52 PM
Who did I call a childish name? I know the "greatest mind in baseball" your refering to and anyone who has actually played baseball at a high level knows that ranger factor is garbage.

Alright, we will just have to agree to disagree. We have strayed way off topic.