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fearofpopvol1
04-01-2008, 03:51 AM
I don't know how many people actually saw the game, be it in person or on TV. The radio and gameday are good sources, but they don't paint a clear picture of how the game was played exactly.

My overall feeling after today was not a good one. I've wanted to be optimistic about this team. I'm also fully aware that this is 1 game and the very first 1 at that. However, the team just looked completely out of synch. Offensively and defensively, almost every player looked lost.

I know it's only 1 game into the season and it's hard to be too critical, but the Dbacks looked a LOT more sound than the Reds did. Am I alone here?

While not a stellar outing, I actually did think Harang pitched pretty well. He did have that one bad outing, but the EdE error and that 1 bad inning kind of killed him. Still had a quality start though.

RedlegJake
04-01-2008, 04:04 AM
The Royals beat the Tigers. The Pirates beat the Braves. That should put it in better perspective. The offense looked lost against Brandon Webb. It's not the first offense that's gonna look that way against Webb. Harang pitched well, outside of one pitch that Burton grooved the bullpen did their job. I wasn't impressed but I'm not dismayed either. Tomorrow the Reds beat Haren.

Ron Madden
04-01-2008, 04:05 AM
My overall feeling after today was not a good one. I've wanted to be optimistic about this team. I'm also fully aware that this is 1 game and the very first 1 at that. However, the team just looked completely out of synch. Offensively and defensively, almost every player looked lost. the Dbacks looked a LOT more sound than the Reds did.


I think Brandon Webb had a whole lot to do with that.

It's a long season, don't sweat over one game. :thumbup:

fearofpopvol1
04-01-2008, 04:12 AM
I'm really not sweating the fact that it's 1 game and the 1st game of the season, no less. And I should also reiterate that it was not just the offense. I thought defensively, especially the infield, they looked completely lost and out of synch.

redsmetz
04-01-2008, 06:16 AM
I think Brandon Webb had a whole lot to do with that.

It's a long season, don't sweat over one game. :thumbup:

From where I was sitting way up in section 531 out the 1st base line, it was hard to figure where both pitchers pitches were (not to mention the odd way the plate umpire called strikes - he'd sort of point flat handed towards the pitcher, then do the thumb for a strike; it was disorienting). I talked to my son who watched the game on TV and he said he thought Harang was getting squeezed early in the game, but was getting the corners later. He said Webb looked very good. Our batters looked listless; both Griffey and Keppinger (and maybe Hatteberg) all had hopeless soft swings on some of his stuff. Burton, except for the one pitch, looked good overall. Again, my son said the home run pitch looked like it's movement was sideways, not up and down, on that pitch.

Patterson made some good reads and catches on pitches going back, but I thought he was weak on the running in on the ball that the first runner scored on. Seemed to be no effort, IMO.

I agree, it's just one game. Ya win some, ya lose some. Let's go to Game #2.

redsmetz
04-01-2008, 06:19 AM
Oh, one more thing, and not on the field of play: Everyone wearing #41 and Nuxhall on the back of their jersey was very cool.

icehole3
04-01-2008, 07:29 AM
Edwin is lost at the plate, I know it takes him a month to get it together.

paintmered
04-01-2008, 07:31 AM
Edwin is lost at the plate, I know it takes him a month to get it together.

Huh? Thom and Jeff spent probably five minutes at one point on how good Edwin looked at the plate today and how he seemingly "turned it on" overnight.

There's nothing "lost" about drawing a pair of walks, especially with the pitching the DBacks threw at the Reds yesterday.

jojo
04-01-2008, 07:42 AM
Huh? Thom and Jeff spent probably five minutes at one point on how good Edwin looked at the plate today and how he seemingly "turned it on" overnight.

There's nothing "lost" about drawing a pair of walks, especially with the pitching the DBacks threw at the Reds yesterday.

To be fair they went into the speech after EE's first at bat. They also talked about how 3 run leads, even against pitchers the quality of Webb, are child's play for the Reds as there is no way such a lead could hold up with such a potent offense. :cool:

traderumor
04-01-2008, 08:17 AM
To be fair they went into the speech after EE's first at bat. They also talked about how 3 run leads, even against pitchers the quality of Webb, are child's play for the Reds as there is no way such a lead could hold up with such a potent offense. :cool:That is not what they said. They said the offense has shown itself to be capable against any pitching and that the lead was not insurmountable, even against the best in the game like Webb.

Yea, it didn't happen yesterday, as you "analyze" from hindsight. Of course, anyone who has watched/listened to a lot of games knew they were trying to keep their audience in the game, which is a part of their job.

cincrazy
04-01-2008, 08:18 AM
I don't know how many people actually saw the game, be it in person or on TV. The radio and gameday are good sources, but they don't paint a clear picture of how the game was played exactly.

My overall feeling after today was not a good one. I've wanted to be optimistic about this team. I'm also fully aware that this is 1 game and the very first 1 at that. However, the team just looked completely out of synch. Offensively and defensively, almost every player looked lost.

I know it's only 1 game into the season and it's hard to be too critical, but the Dbacks looked a LOT more sound than the Reds did. Am I alone here?

While not a stellar outing, I actually did think Harang pitched pretty well. He did have that one bad outing, but the EdE error and that 1 bad inning kind of killed him. Still had a quality start though.

A lot of teams come out of combat with Brandon Webb looking disoriented. I was happy to see us battle back after falling behind 3-0. And as someone else has already mentioned, Harang was clearly getting squeezed by the umpire.

I think what we see is what we get with the offense. They'll score some runs against mediocre pitching, but they're going to struggle against good pitching.

On to Wednesday night, not sure how Haren pitched this spring, but if Arroyo continues to pitch they way he's been pitching, could be a long night for the young D-backs.

redsmetz
04-01-2008, 08:24 AM
An added thought - that second baseman for the Diamondbacks - he made two spectacular plays that held us in check. The one deep in the hole behind the bag and throwing off balance was unbelievable. He ended up in the middle of left field from his momentum. I thought that was an infield base hit all the way. I think he did the same thing against Harang and somehow Harang just beat it out.

Always Red
04-01-2008, 08:32 AM
I also was at the game way (way down the LF line in section 411), and also came away with a few off-the-top-of-my-head impressions: Orlando Hudson is crazy good, the D-Backs defense in general looked very good, the Reds still do not appear to play consistently good fundamental ball, and Corey Patterson looked excellent in CF. I think he got to 3 balls yesterday that would have fallen in last year.

At the plate, my initial impression of Patterson was not good- I think he swung at ball four on the very first AB of the year, producing a soft ground out instead of a walk. Bat Corey 7th instead of leadoff, and he's a guy I can live with.

RFS62
04-01-2008, 08:40 AM
Don't judge this team by its reaction to Brandon Webb. He's got one of the nastiest sinkers in the history of the game, and he was on yesterday.

Tom Servo
04-01-2008, 08:41 AM
If you recall the offense was cold to begin last season as well.

RANDY IN INDY
04-01-2008, 08:43 AM
Don't judge this team by its reaction to Brandon Webb. He's got one of the nastiest sinkers in the history of the game, and he was on yesterday.

Agree. Webb is nasty. I was really pleased when the Reds cut into the lead and got close at 3-2. I thought they might have a good chance at that point. You have to keep the game close when you are facing someone like Webb.

Jpup
04-01-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm already tired of George Grande. When is Thom going to be on?

wheels
04-01-2008, 09:19 AM
The Park looks better each year. Is there more green out there or is it just me?

I am also glad they didn't wear the red jerseys yesterday.

edabbs44
04-01-2008, 09:21 AM
If you recall the offense was cold to begin last season as well.

And that is supposed to be a good thing?

Roy Tucker
04-01-2008, 09:34 AM
Don't judge this team by its reaction to Brandon Webb. He's got one of the nastiest sinkers in the history of the game, and he was on yesterday.

That was my impression too. When Webb is on, he's one of the nastiest pitchers in the game. He was on. What can you say?

I agree with many here that Patterson needs moved down in the lineup. Not based on yesterday's game, but on his MLB career so far. Dusty will do it soon.

On to #2 of 162.

rotnoid
04-01-2008, 09:51 AM
I also was at the game way (way down the LF line in section 411), and also came away with a few off-the-top-of-my-head impressions: Orlando Hudson is crazy good, the D-Backs defense in general looked very good, the Reds still do not appear to play consistently good fundamental ball, and Corey Patterson looked excellent in CF. I think he got to 3 balls yesterday that would have fallen in last year.

At the plate, my initial impression of Patterson was not good- I think he swung at ball four on the very first AB of the year, producing a soft ground out instead of a walk. Bat Corey 7th instead of leadoff, and he's a guy I can live with.

My impressions almost exactly. That diving catch Patterson made was an eye popper. He also made some nice plays going back. At least one of which would have been extra bases in years past. He's not the top of the order type of guy I would look for, and I agree 6th or 7th and I like him a lot more, but who else hits #1 with the defense as it is? Hatteberg (just throwing stuff at the wall here)?

Highlifeman21
04-01-2008, 10:01 AM
All I know is it's gonna be a loooooooooooooong season with J. Valentin as our #1 catching option.....

I never thought I'd say this, but I can't wait for Ross to get back from the DL.

jojo
04-01-2008, 10:02 AM
Agree. Webb is nasty. I was really pleased when the Reds cut into the lead and got close at 3-2. I thought they might have a good chance at that point. You have to keep the game close when you are facing someone like Webb.

Ignoring that I disagree about the wisdom of purposefully suppressing run scoring no matter who is on the mound unless it's at the end of the game, given it was opening day and it was a virtual certainty that the Reds would see the bullpen early no matter how "on" Webb was, I don't understand why it's a good strategy to play for small innings yesterday.

flyer85
04-01-2008, 10:03 AM
Brandon Webb made a lot of Reds hitters look bad. Spring training is over and how you may or may not have been swinging the bat means nothing.

lollipopcurve
04-01-2008, 10:11 AM
Pitching and defense.

coachw513
04-01-2008, 10:56 AM
Overall thoughts...

We lost...

Now that the sky has not caved in, we get to play again Wednesday night...

D'Backs took advantage of their opportunity in the 1st, Cincy failed to do so in the 3rd (it should've been a double by Valentin and a sac bunt by Harang), Harang made 2 mistakes that Brandon Webb didn't and there she goes...

Harang was good enough to win almost every time out (especially innings 4-6), Patterson was outstanding in CF and there was a sense of normality to the bullpen (Burton, Weathers, Cordero) even with the HR given up...

And I had 162-0 in my pool...dang it...

bucksfan2
04-01-2008, 10:59 AM
My thoughts after opening day.

Why is Valentine on this baseball team? He can't catch the ball. The first run was a direct result of him not being able to block the ball. Then he goes into a home run trot on a one hopper off the wall.

Why is Hatty starting? Come on.

Patterson may not be an offensive force but man can he go get a ball.

Rule question here. The batters box, I thought you had to have both feet in the box. Hudson for Arizona had one foot in the back of the box along with one foot about a foot outside of the box.

flyer85
04-01-2008, 11:01 AM
Why is Hatty starting? Come on.
those meaningful spring training games.

BRM
04-01-2008, 11:04 AM
It was nice to see a legit defender in CF for a change.

flyer85
04-01-2008, 11:08 AM
It was nice to see a legit defender in CF for a change.now they need to figure out how to get him to 7th in the batting order.

I really envision a team that will struggle to score runs if
a) Patterson remains the leadoff hitter
b) the catching options are not addressed by an acquisition
c) Gonzo comes back and takes over as the everyday SS
d) Hatty remains the starting 1b.

George Anderson
04-01-2008, 11:31 AM
Rule question here. The batters box, I thought you had to have both feet in the box. Hudson for Arizona had one foot in the back of the box along with one foot about a foot outside of the box.

As long as both feet are inside the box or at the very least touching part of the chalk of the batters box then its legal. If the batter swung, made contact with the ball and his foot was totally out of the box then he is out.

Roy Tucker
04-01-2008, 11:35 AM
My biggest thought about Opening Day....

We now have a full season of Reds baseball to look forward to until September 28. All the ups and downs, cold nights and hot days, roster changes, railing at Dusty, momentum shifts, unexpected heroes, thrill of victories, agonies of defeat, etc etc etc.

Reds baseball will be reading the Enquirer with my morning Cheerios and OJ, evenings with FSN with George and the boys (now in HD), driving around town yelling at Marty on WLW, and games at GABP (going to a baseball game is in my top 3 things in life I like to do the most).

Reds baseball will be an every-day companion spring summer and fall and the question I'll have the most is "how did the Reds do today?".

I really look forward to baseball. A baseball season is something to savor, experience, and enjoy.

RFS62
04-01-2008, 11:36 AM
My biggest thought about Opening Day....

We now have a full season of Reds baseball to look forward to until September 28. All the ups and downs, cold nights and hot days, roster changes, railing at Dusty, momentum shifts, unexpected heroes, thrill of victories, agonies of defeat, etc etc etc.

Reds baseball will be reading the Enquirer with my morning Cheerios and OJ, evenings with FSN with George and the boys (now in HD), driving around town yelling at Marty on WLW, and games at GABP (going to a baseball game is in my top 3 things in life I like to do the most).

Reds baseball will be an every-day companion spring summer and fall and the question I'll have the most is "how did the Reds do today?".

I really look forward to baseball. A baseball season is something to savor, experience, and enjoy.



:beerme:

lollipopcurve
04-01-2008, 11:39 AM
My biggest thought about Opening Day....

We now have a full season of Reds baseball to look forward to until September 28. All the ups and downs, cold nights and hot days, roster changes, railing at Dusty, momentum shifts, unexpected heroes, thrill of victories, agonies of defeat, etc etc etc.

Reds baseball will be reading the Enquirer with my morning Cheerios and OJ, evenings with FSN with George and the boys (now in HD), driving around town yelling at Marty on WLW, and games at GABP (going to a baseball game is in my top 3 things in life I like to do the most).

Reds baseball will be an every-day companion spring summer and fall and the question I'll have the most is "how did the Reds do today?".

I really look forward to baseball. A baseball season is something to savor, experience, and enjoy.

Says it all!

OnBaseMachine
04-01-2008, 11:41 AM
My biggest thought about Opening Day....

We now have a full season of Reds baseball to look forward to until September 28. All the ups and downs, cold nights and hot days, roster changes, railing at Dusty, momentum shifts, unexpected heroes, thrill of victories, agonies of defeat, etc etc etc.

Reds baseball will be reading the Enquirer with my morning Cheerios and OJ, evenings with FSN with George and the boys (now in HD), driving around town yelling at Marty on WLW, and games at GABP (going to a baseball game is in my top 3 things in life I like to do the most).

Reds baseball will be an every-day companion spring summer and fall and the question I'll have the most is "how did the Reds do today?".

I really look forward to baseball. A baseball season is something to savor, experience, and enjoy.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Great post.

redsmetz
04-01-2008, 11:44 AM
One more thing from the ball park - my goodness, they're selling real bratwursts now; not those hot dog shaped things, but a real, honest to goodness brat. Now if we can get them to ditch the hot dog shaped "red hot smoky" for some real mettwurst - now you're talking some good food!

Kc61
04-01-2008, 11:48 AM
Post-opening day I see a team in transition. Many of these players are veterans who soon will be replaced by younger players. You all know the names. For all the optimism for this year, the more likely scenario is that gradually this year will result in a major turnover in key spots. I think the "new Reds" will mostly be on the field by 2009.

As much as I'm waiting to see Griffey hit 600, as a fan this year is really about Cueto and Volquez, Votto's progress, and watching Bruce, Bailey, Maloney, Roenicke, Viola etc. in the high minors and soon as Reds.

I was irritated by EE's error, but thinking about it I just want to see EE play every day so the team can decide if he's the third baseman.

This team could do well in 2008 if its pitching holds up. But the real focus this year needs to be on the next Reds team, which is about to emerge.

redsfan30
04-01-2008, 11:51 AM
I'll throw my two cents in, even though it's pretty much a repeat of what's already been said.

I was at the game, right behind homeplate in the 400's view level section. Brandon Webb was filthy. In the first inning he threw a couple of those sinkers to Keppinger and Junior that made them look foolish. You knew at that point runs were going to be at a premium for the Reds on this day.

I haven't gone back and watched the tape from yesterday, but I'm interested to see what the FSN Ohio radar gun was showing for Harang. The stadium gun had him topping out around 88-89 MPH, rarely breaking the 90 MPH number. Brandon Webb was in the same area. I was wondering if the calibration on the gun was alittle off but when the bullpens took over it seemed to be right as both Pena and Coco Cordero were both hitting the mid 90's regularly.

I don't have a problem at all with Corey Patterson being in centerfield on a somewhat regular basis for this team. As as been stated, he made about three plays that Norris Hopper absolutely would not have made and on the balls going back I'm not sure Ryan Freel would have made them either. He looked fantastic on defense. He's got some wheels too. On the groundout on his first at bat of the game I was amazed how quickly and effortlessly he got down the line.

I'm glad to hear that Thom and Jeff mentioned Edwin's patients at the plate yesterday because I was thinking the same thing to myself as the afternoon went on. He was able to lay off a couple of breaking balls that he was whaling at in Spring Training. Yes, he looked pretty bad in his at bat in the ninth inning, but overall I was as impressed as you can be with one days 0-2 with 2 BB's.

As far as pregame goes, it was a blast. My dad and I usually bypass the parade and go straight to the stadium when the gates open to watch Billy Cunningham, Seg and Paul Daugherty do thier show. Say what you want about WLW and the three people mentioned, but it is a hoot to watch them do their thing. Phil Castellini, George Foster and Cezar Geronimo were guests on the show so it was neat to get to see/listen to them. It's become part of our Opening Day routine to watch them do the show and I look forward to it each year.

The rain was certainly not ideal, but did not at all detract from the enjoyment of the day. It's the only day of the year where rain can't ruin the day.

And of course, you had the usual "it's Opening Day, I'm just here to be seen" people in attendance. There are some stupid, stupid people that come out on Opening Day. Some of these people were sitting around me and I just had to shake my head and chuckle a bit to myself. No big deal though...it's all part of the overall mystique of Opening Day.

There's no other day like it.

redsfan30
04-01-2008, 11:53 AM
One more thing from the ball park - my goodness, they're selling real bratwursts now; not those hot dog shaped things, but a real, honest to goodness brat. Now if we can get them to ditch the hot dog shaped "red hot smoky" for some real mettwurst - now you're talking some good food!

The brat I had was fantastic!

osuceltic
04-01-2008, 11:58 AM
I saw ...

-- an error
-- a passed ball
-- a 330-foot single
-- a failed bunt attempt

In other words, same old, same old. I know they're all statistically insignificant (ugh), but you can't play that sloppily and win -- against Brandon Webb or anyone else. It's the same kind of play we've seen for several years. I know Dusty can't change things overnight, but I hope yesterday got his attention.

klw
04-01-2008, 11:59 AM
Has there every been studies done to see if there is any correlation between the eventual success of a team and whether:
1. They win or lose on opening day
2. If the first pitch on opening day was a strike or a ball
3. Who scores first
4. Whether the first batter makes and out or reaches base.

Obviously there shouldn't be a correlation other than perhaps for whether the team wins- would be indicative of a good #1 starter perhaps- but it would be curious if there is any.

Stormy
04-01-2008, 12:11 PM
My biggest thought about Opening Day....

We now have a full season of Reds baseball to look forward to until September 28. All the ups and downs, cold nights and hot days, roster changes, railing at Dusty, momentum shifts, unexpected heroes, thrill of victories, agonies of defeat, etc etc etc.

Reds baseball will be reading the Enquirer with my morning Cheerios and OJ, evenings with FSN with George and the boys (now in HD), driving around town yelling at Marty on WLW, and games at GABP (going to a baseball game is in my top 3 things in life I like to do the most).

Reds baseball will be an every-day companion spring summer and fall and the question I'll have the most is "how did the Reds do today?".

I really look forward to baseball. A baseball season is something to savor, experience, and enjoy.


Nicely stated, Roy. :beerme:

KoryMac5
04-01-2008, 12:20 PM
I was a bit suprised Cordero got his first work of the season in a non-save situation, maybe Dusty wanted him to get some work in. I just worry about innings piling up at the beginning of the year. Weathers looked good as a set up man and Burton continued his spring struggles, Dusty could be taking a look at Hot Rod soon.

Tom Servo
04-01-2008, 02:19 PM
And that is supposed to be a good thing?
No, it means one or even a couple of games can't accurately depict seasonly trends.

GAC
04-01-2008, 09:51 PM
From where I was sitting way up in section 531 out the 1st base line

Chip and I were in section 533. Wish I had known that. Would have liked to have met you.


Our batters looked listless

Swing away Merrill. And many of the Reds batters were doing so. Ten Ks total. But our Reds drew 4 BBs total, to the D'Backs 2.

I'm not going to worry much after only one game; but Patterson looked lost at the plate. His defense in CF though was solid. BP did what BP does - he swings away, which netted him a 1 fer 4 day, one RBI and one runs scored.

Aaron Harang needs to work on his bunting. Very, very sad.

The D'Backs got their run in the 1st inning thanks to an EE throwing error that should have been an out (after a great stop), and a Harang WP.

Give Webb credit. He mixed it up well and kept our guys off balance. Harang didn't pitch bad. He had a rocky 3rd with those two solo shots. He then proceeded to retire the next 10 batters.


Don't judge this team by its reaction to Brandon Webb. He's got one of the nastiest sinkers in the history of the game, and he was on yesterday.


Yep. No shame in losing to him 3-2. We had few opportunities; but when we did, didn't capitalize.

I was impressed with the D'Back's defense. They contributed too to our losing.

OnBaseMachine
04-01-2008, 09:57 PM
To be fair to EdE, the grass was soaking wet at that point in the game so I couldn't really blame him much for that ball slipping out of his hands.

GAC
04-01-2008, 09:59 PM
Edwin is lost at the plate, I know it takes him a month to get it together.

He drew 2 of the 4 walks the Reds had. ;)

GAC
04-01-2008, 10:03 PM
Rule question here. The batters box, I thought you had to have both feet in the box. Hudson for Arizona had one foot in the back of the box along with one foot about a foot outside of the box.

At the very beginning of the game the D'Back's leadoff guy purposely used his cleats to remove the back line of the chalked box.

WMR
04-01-2008, 10:04 PM
now they need to figure out how to get him to 7th in the batting order.

I really envision a team that will struggle to score runs if
a) Patterson remains the leadoff hitter
b) the catching options are not addressed by an acquisition
c) Gonzo comes back and takes over as the everyday SS
d) Hatty remains the starting 1b.

They'll figure all that out eventually. It might take until late July, however.

Ltlabner
04-01-2008, 10:37 PM
To be fair to EdE, the grass was soaking wet at that point in the game so I couldn't really blame him much for that ball slipping out of his hands.

Yea, I sorta jumped all over him when he did that. But after thinking about the 1.5 hours of rain that happened right before gametime, and the on-going sprinkles, I had to cut him some slack since it wasn't exactly optimal game conditions.

Always Red
04-01-2008, 10:43 PM
At the very beginning of the game the D'Back's leadoff guy purposely used his cleats to remove the back line of the chalked box.

Pete Rose did that same thing in every single game he ever played.

WMR
04-01-2008, 10:46 PM
I'm a bit surprised umps let players get away with this. A kid tried it on me once and I cut it out immediately.

reds44
04-01-2008, 10:53 PM
If you recall the offense was cold to begin last season as well.
2 years ago the Reds average something like 6.5 runs per game the first 3 weeks of the season. That was the team with Lopez, Kearns, Griffey, Dunn, Edwin, Rich Hatteberg, Brandon Phillips, and hot David Ross. Now that was an offense.

klw
04-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Since 1982, the last 25 World Series winners are 15 and 10 in season openers. Not that means anything.

OnBaseMachine
04-01-2008, 11:32 PM
The last Reds team to finish above .500 (2000) started the season 0-2 and went on to win 86 games. The great 1999 Reds started the season 0-3 by getting swept by the Giants. Losing the first game or two isn't the end of the world, though it does sting a little since it's the first game of the new season.

redsrule2500
04-01-2008, 11:35 PM
I guess I will say this: More of the same.

Raisor
04-01-2008, 11:36 PM
2 years ago the Reds average something like 6.5 runs per game the first 3 weeks of the season. That was the team with Rich Hatteberg,

Rich Hatteberg!

Did you splice the two of them together?

Mad Scientist alert!

:thumbup:

Reds Nd2
04-01-2008, 11:40 PM
Rich Hatteberg!

Did you splice the two of them together?

Mad Scientist alert!

:thumbup:

Now that will win you a Nobel Prize. But the drinking bird thingy is still way cooler IMO.

Still I wonder, how many runs would a team of Rich Hatteberg's score?

Screwball
04-01-2008, 11:43 PM
Still I wonder, how many runs would a team of Rich Hatteberg's score?

800 billion.

Raisor
04-01-2008, 11:45 PM
800 billion.

yeah, that season never would have ended. The first game would still be in the first inning. T

BCubb2003
04-02-2008, 12:32 AM
I think we're sellers. Time to get rid of these bums and get some new ones.