View Full Version : Indiana set to hire Tom Crean
Per Andy Katz.
According to a report late this afternoon, Tom Crean will be the man to take over the head coaching job at Indiana University. We’re working to confirm this story but it has been reported by Andy Katz of ESPN. As of 5:30, Indiana was still waiting a signed agreement from Crean.
http://www.insidethehall.com/
Trying to put a tumultuous few months behind it, Indiana University is on the verge of naming a new coach, Tom Crean of Marquette, a source with the school told ESPN.com's Andy Katz on Tuesday.
The Hoosiers have to hope that the hiring goes more smoothly than the awkward parting with former coach Kelvin Sampson.
Indiana is awaiting a letter of agreement from Crean before a deal is finalized, and a tentative news conference has been scheduled for Wednesday to make an announcement.
He resigned amid allegations of NCAA violations. Dan Dakich, an assistant under Sampson and a former Indiana player and assistant under Bob Knight, took over as interim coach for the rest of the season.
The university first contacted Washington State coach Tony Bennett late Saturday night, but he withdrew from consideration.
Crean, who took the Dwyane Wade-led Golden Eagles to the Final Four in 2003, just completed a 25-10 season. Marquette lost to Stanford in the second round of the NCAA tournament.
Crean is 190-96 in nine seasons at Marquette and has taken the Golden Eagles to the NCAA tournament five times. Before that, he was an assistant at Michigan State, Pittsburgh and Western Kentucky.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3324439
Well, you already know what I think about Crean. :lol:
gilpdawg
04-01-2008, 05:59 PM
I'm happy with this.
It could have been worse.
Highlifeman21
04-01-2008, 06:00 PM
Good hire by IU if it ends up being true.
gilpdawg
04-01-2008, 06:01 PM
Well, you already know what I think about Crean. :lol:
Refresh my memory. He doesn't have any obvious ties to UK,(other than Western) so therefore I can't predict what you'd think.:D
Refresh my memory. He doesn't have any obvious ties to UK,(other than Western) so therefore I can't predict what you'd think.:D
I called him over-rated and BRM and dabvu have referred to him as the over-rated Tom Crean ever since. ;)
Heath
04-01-2008, 06:04 PM
Wow. I think the new intrigue is who gets the Marquette job.
Rick Majerus?
Heath
04-01-2008, 06:05 PM
Good hire by IU if it ends up being true.
Between Tom Crean and Thad Matta, the Big Ten might want to consider the extension of the coaches' box.
flyer85
04-01-2008, 06:10 PM
Wow. I think the new intrigue is who gets the Marquette job.
Rick Majerus?Ricky already has had that one.
gilpdawg
04-01-2008, 06:34 PM
I called him over-rated and BRM and dabvu have referred to him as the over-rated Tom Crean ever since. ;)
So THAT's where that came from. I guess I should have done more than skim all the hoop threads. :)
George Anderson
04-01-2008, 06:36 PM
I'm happy with this.
It could have been worse.
What he said!!
I think this is a great hire. Especially given the current situation at Indiana. I hope His Overratedness can get Ebanks to come to IU. :)
Press conference is tomorrow at 10:00 am eastern, per the Herald-Times.
UPDATE (6:45): IU plans to announce the Crean hiring at a 10 a.m. press conference. The university may issue a press release on the announcement tonight.
The Associated Press has also confirmed the selection of Crean through IU trustee Ray Escew.
UPDATE (6:42): The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/) reached a Marquette player Tuesday afternoon who had just heard that Crean was leaving to become head coach at IU.
The player told Journal-Sentinel reporter Todd Rosiak that he’d just learned of the news. Another had no knowledge that Crean was apparently preparing to leave for Indiana.
“Not right away I don’t,” said the player when asked if he had a comment. “It’s real shocking.”
It’s believed Crean was scheduled to meet with his Golden Eagles players later Tuesday to explain his decision.
Wonder what IU is paying him? 1.5? 1.75?
flyer85
04-01-2008, 07:15 PM
this is one of the hiring that will now have a large cascade effect.
Wonder what IU is paying him? 1.5? 1.75?
I think he was around $1.5M per at Marquette but I'm not positive on that.
Reds4Life
04-01-2008, 07:27 PM
The real question is, will IU be hung with anymore NCAA sanctions? If they are, it might not matter who they hired if they are hamstrung.
GoReds33
04-01-2008, 07:29 PM
I think Sean Miller is going to get some consideration for the Marquette job. They probably got a good buyout from Crean, so they can afford to spend some money to get the right coach.
Reds Freak
04-01-2008, 07:32 PM
I think Sean Miller is going to get some consideration for the Marquette job. They probably got a good buyout from Crean, so they can afford to spend some money to get the right coach.
I've never met Sean Miller but my guess is he wouldn't leave Xavier unless he was offered the Pitt job, his alma mater. As an X fan, I hope it's true. Glad to see IU went elsewhere! He's getting close to a million at Xavier and a job at Marquette seems to me to be a lateral move at best.
fearofpopvol1
04-01-2008, 08:13 PM
It's hard to be too mad about this. While there are other coaches I would've preferred, I think given IU's bad situation it would've been too hard to pull off an elite coach or a really hot up and comer.
Reds4Life
04-01-2008, 08:21 PM
I've never met Sean Miller but my guess is he wouldn't leave Xavier unless he was offered the Pitt job, his alma mater. As an X fan, I hope it's true. Glad to see IU went elsewhere! He's getting close to a million at Xavier and a job at Marquette seems to me to be a lateral move at best.
X to Marquette is not a lateral move. Better confernece, better facilities and more resources. Not to mention more money.
joshnky
04-01-2008, 08:24 PM
Good hire for IU. Crean did well at Marquette and plays an exciting style of basketball. This should make Rick Pitino happy. The relationship between the two was far from cordial.
Boston Red
04-01-2008, 08:33 PM
X to Marquette is not a lateral move.
Yeah, it's a step down.
George Anderson
04-01-2008, 09:14 PM
Good hire for IU. Crean did well at Marquette and plays an exciting style of basketball. This should make Rick Pitino happy. The relationship between the two was far from cordial.
Details?
Hoosier Red
04-01-2008, 09:38 PM
Given the top returning player is likely to Kyle Taber and that they were discussing Lon Kruger and Mike Montgomery.
I'm ecstatic with this hire.
By the way Wily Mo, I think all coaches are overrated to an extent, but if you can get a coach who sets high standards for the program and continually wins. I think you have to be happy.
WVRed
04-01-2008, 10:23 PM
Yeah, it's a step down.
From the A-10 to the Big East? Sounds like a step down to me.
I've never been a fan of Tom Crean. He did manage to score a recruit out of Chicago by the name of Dwayne Wade, but his teams rely more on pressure defense to win, aka Tubby Smith. Thats the reason a lot of Kentucky fans wanted no part of Crean when his name surfaced.
He is a good coach, don't get me wrong. His style of play will fit the Big Ten, but I just wonder how he can recruit. Indiana needs a coach who can sell ice to eskimos and I don't think they did that. If Ebanks decides to stay, I may change my mind.
George Anderson
04-01-2008, 10:32 PM
Indiana needs a coach who can sell ice to eskimos and I don't think they did that.
Come now, IU is down but still a premier program.
He also recruited Dominic James out of Richmond, Indiana who is a pretty solid player.
Yeah, it's a step down.
X to Marquette a step down? Right.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:21 AM
X to Marquette a step down? Right.
I still don't think it's enough of a step up to make Miller want to leave X.
I still don't think it's enough of a step up to make Miller want to leave X.
I can agree with that. It's not a giant one but it is definitely a step up. I wouldn't blame Miller for staying put though.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:26 AM
BTW, my prediction for the Marquette job: Tod Kowalczyk.
In other IU news, Eli Holman said he will make a decision on his future at Indiana by next Wednesday. Jamarcus Ellis wants to be on the team. No word from Bassett yet. It will be interesting how Crean handles these two.
Wonder if Crean will retain Dakich? If so, it'd be hard to bring those two back.
Wonder if Crean will retain Dakich? If so, it'd be hard to bring those two back.
Good point. I don't think either will want to come back if Dakich is retained.
“I never had plans to leave,” Ellis said. “It was just – Dakich being the head coach – we didn’t see eye-to-eye on things, so I thought the best thing for me was to part ways and get my academics right.
“I never left the team, I quit,” he added. “So there really wasn’t that we got kicked off, we quit. I’m looking forward to still being a Hoosier. I never had intentions on leaving – that wasn’t even an option.”
Thomas agreed, also saying Ellis and Bassett quit the team instead of Dakich telling them to leave.
“They went with what they believed in,” Thomas said. “They thought something wasn’t right, so they stood up for themselves. They came to me before that and wanted something to change.”
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:34 AM
Wonder if Crean will retain Dakich? If so, it'd be hard to bring those two back.
I can't imagine that happening.
"I never left the team, I quit..."
What the hell does that mean?
Sound like a couple of young punks to me.
I can't imagine that happening.
How many years has Dakich been there?
How many years has Dakich been there?
It was his first year this time around. He was there as an assistant under Knight years ago.
It was his first year this time around. He was there as an assistant under Knight years ago.
Ohhhhh, okay, I was thinking that he had been at IU for like 25 straight years or something.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:39 AM
Ohhhhh, okay, I was thinking that he had been at IU for like 25 straight years or something.
He was the head coach at Bowling Green for a few years. Not particularly successful, either.
Of course, nobody has been at BG.
Ohhhhh, okay, I was thinking that he had been at IU for like 25 straight years or something.
He was the head coach at Bowling Green for 10 years. He returned to IU as the Director of Basketball Operations this past season. He was made an assistant for Kelvin once Rob Senderoff resigned.
He was the head coach at Bowling Green for a few years. Not particularly successful, either.
Of course, nobody has been at BG.
He had a winning record there. Not many have been able to do that.
Yeah it will be interesting to see what Crean does with those two...
I don't care if you "don't see eye to eye with him" or not, you still respect your coach.
Yeah it will be interesting to see what Crean does with those two...
I don't care if you "don't see eye to eye with him" or not, you still respect your coach.
Absolutely.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:47 AM
He had a winning record there. Not many have been able to do that.
Larranaga did, too, now that I think about it.
But it's been a long, long time since they made an NCAA tourney appearance.
Maybe he'll get up with Dakich, find out what sort of running he had in mind for those two, and then quadruple it while adding on a few weeks of running the Assembly Hall stairs for an hour each morning... then they can come back. :D
Boston Red
04-02-2008, 09:48 AM
X to Marquette a step down? Right.
I don't really think it's a step down. I don't think it's a step up either. Xavier has had a better program, on the whole, than Marquette for 20+ years. Conference isn't everything.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 09:50 AM
Yeah it will be interesting to see what Crean does with those two...
I don't care if you "don't see eye to eye with him" or not, you still respect your coach.
They knew he wasn't going to be "their coach" for very long. Thought it would play out before they had to face any real consequences.
Immature kids. 18-19 year old kids.
From insidethehall.com:
The Morning After: Tom Crean
It’s over. The speculation, the rumors, the top five lists for coaching candidates — it’s over. Tom Crean is IU’s next coach. And really, I think it’s a great fit. I was infatuated with Tony Bennett like the rest of you out there; I was hoping for a big splash name too. But Crean falls somewhere in the middle of that. He’s young at 42. (Who else is relieved we didn’t land Lon Kruger or Mike Montgomery? Phew.) He’s got Big Ten experience under Tom Izzo at Michigan State and recruits Chicago and Indiana. He doesn’t have to get set up for recruiting in the Midwest; he’s been doing it for years.
His coaching philosophy should fit the Indiana mold as well. His defense is tight-nosed in the half court (think of Dominic James giving some great on-ball pressure) and his offensive sets are varied and complex. (Hey, we might actually have plays and stuff!) This is not to say he’s going to succeed at every turn. That would be foolish. And it’s not to say he’s not without flaw. His NCAA tourney record might not jump out at you (5-5) and he’s only won one game in the Big Dance since Dwyane Wade left the program in 2003. He’s been to the NIT quite a bit too. But hey, he can’t come up all roses.
So first thing is first: the press conference later this morning. Crean will hopefully etch out why he made the move and what he plans to do. Then his next mission is to get a hold of Jamarcus Ellis, Armon Bassett, Terrell Holloway and Devin Ebanks. From how Ellis talked to the IDS tonight (http://www.idsnews.com/basketblog/?p=440) and touted how much of a recruiter Crean is, I’m hopeful we can score three of those guys back. Ebanks is probably a lost cause. From there, onwards to win over the university, boosters, fans, the state of Indiana. Think Kelvin Sampson’s barnstorming tour from a few years back.
Speaking of Kelvin Sampson, we have a guy in Crean that’s run a clean program up to this point. As far as we know, he has no problems using the telephone. After the NCAA rules in June, we hopefully will no longer be on pins and needles wondering what current setback is going to befall our Hoosiers.
So rejoice. Sit back. Relax. It only gets better from here.
Saw this on Sportsline.
A source told Gary Parrish of CBSSports.com that the deal is in excess of $2 million per season and will be for no less than six years. Another source said the contract might extend to 10 years to ensure it outlasts Crean's current deal at Marquette, which runs through the 2016-17 season.
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 10:44 AM
Saw this on Sportsline.
According to the Milwaukee paper, Crean was making $1.6 mil/year at Marquette.
In fact, one reporter in Milly-wau-kay agrees with WMR.
The nine-year question on Tom Crean was always whether he was a better politician/salesman/self-promoter than a basketball coach.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=734545
I disagree with that reporter and WMR. ;)
There's only so much he was going to be able to do at Marquette. Marquette is always going to be second fiddle in the state of Wisconsin and will never be on the level of the Georgetown's in the Big East.
At Marquette he has always been second in his own state, overshadowed despite his success. For those unfamiliar, Marquette is in Milwaukee, which is in Wisconsin, which is home to the Wisconsin Badgers. And by home, I mean home -- to the point where everybody else can be made to feel like a visitor, and the ego that drove Crean and helped make him one of the better coaches in America never allowed him to be completely comfortable in that role while he watched Wisconsin's Bo Ryan Soulja Boy-dance his way into the hearts of the majority of the population.
Crean will go from the second-most-prominent coach in Wisconsin to the biggest celebrity in Indiana. Overnight. The limelight sources have said Washington State's Tony Bennett didn't necessarily want is something Crean will embrace. That's the off-the-court ramification. On the court, he'll go from leading a nice program in the jumbled mess that is the Big East to owning what is arguably the best job in the Big Ten, and that's a point I cannot stress enough -- that even though Crean has done, as Otzelberger put it, an "amazing" job at Marquette, he still only finished fourth, fifth and fifth in three years in the Big East because that's about all anybody can reasonably expect to do at Marquette on a consistent basis.
I just read the recap of the presser. Man, he really gets it. I'm even more pumped now. Great hire.
I need to get one of these.
http://www.tisbookiu.com/imagesiu/2015200.jpg
fearofpopvol1
04-02-2008, 12:35 PM
He’s got Big Ten experience under Tom Izzo at Michigan State and recruits Chicago and Indiana. He doesn’t have to get set up for recruiting in the Midwest; he’s been doing it for years.
That's a very good point that I didn't think about. Makes me feel even better about the hire.
Here are some tidbits from Jordan Crawford's interview. He was interviewed right after the Crean press conference. Courtesy of the Herald-Times.
On him possibly leaving IU:
“Of course it crossed my mind, because the coach I came here for is gone, so it had to cross my mind, and I thought about it and still think about it. I’m gonna meet with the coach and then go from there. I don’t know if he’ll have to say anything (to get me to stay). I just want to get to know him and him get to know me. And I know he knows a little bit about me. Like he said, he’s gonna watch film on the season. That’s cool, he could help develop.”
On Armon Bassett and Jamarcus Ellis:
“A lot of people say certain things about ‘em, but I see ‘em every day and I know ‘em. I know they’re good kids…I think it was all just a misunderstanding. I think they’re very excited. Jamarcus had no intentions of leaving at all. Armon loves playing with everbody on this team…Jamarcus, first of all he’s a junior. He’s gonna be a senior next year so it’d be hard for him to leave. He’s been talking since we lost that he wanted to stay. I think he’s a very good kid who wants to take a second chance.”
On recent weeks:
“It’s good that a coach is put in place. It’s probably not been as long for people that’s not on the team, but to us it’s been real long…I was just thinking, ‘Get it over with.’ I didn’t know who was going to get the job. I know Tony Benett was the top candidate, so I knew they were going to ask him first and see what happens from there. But I didn’t really know the candidates at all.”
On Crean:
“He’s very passionate about the job and what he’s gonna bring. He knows a lot about basketball…I watched him play against my brother in the NCAA Tournament. You could tell he was very passionate and gets a lot out of his players and plays good defense. I remember Jerel McNeal and him talking. They play very good defense and they’re very competitive.”
On the team outlook next year:
“I think we’ll be very competitive. A lot of players that played last year are gonna be here this year.”
On Crean’s thoughts about fastbreak playing style:
“(My eyes) are going to light up a little bit because I remember what Michigan State did to us, so it was good.”
On the immediate future:
“I think the toughest thing right now is just us getting to know each other. That’s the most important thing, and that’s really what I’m looking for…What I was concerned about the most (was) the more kids leaving, it’s going to be hard for a coach to pick this school because it’s gonna be a very tough job and it’s gonna take a couple years to, you know, get back on his feet. So, just hoping I can get it over with.”
dabvu2498
04-02-2008, 02:36 PM
Sounds like it's in his heart to stay.
Sounds like it's in his heart to stay.
That's the way I took it.
Gordon is supposed to announce his decision on Friday now. Bye Eric.
Marquette recruit Tyshawn Taylor is asking to be released from his LOI now that Crean has left.
Hurley said other schools haven't wasted much time trying to get back in the mix with Taylor.
"It's going to work itself out," he said. "The amount of phone calls I received this morning from schools that are interested in him made me call him to say, 'Don't worry; everything's going to be fine.' At the same time, he was going to Marquette University -- no disrespect to Marquette University -- and Milwaukee, Wisconsin to play for Tom Crean."
http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/04/02/taylor-wants-out.aspx
flyer85
04-02-2008, 06:30 PM
IMHO, you sign a LOI with the school and if the school doesn't fire the coach(their choice) and instead the coach takes another job(not their choice) then I(Marquette in this case) would be disinclined to release a player from their LOI. It's like getting kicked in the nuts twice. First coach takes another job and then secondly players don't want to honor their signed LOIs and the school has done nothing that has caused this to happen.
Hoosier Red
04-02-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm in favor of rules that are more fair to the players than the schools. While it's true that the current situation isn't fair to the school, it's no more fair to make a kid go play for a coach who didn't recruit him.
flyer85
04-02-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm in favor of rules that are more fair to the players than the schools. While it's true that the current situation isn't fair to the school, it's no more fair to make a kid go play for a coach who didn't recruit him.real simple answer is don't sign an LOI till the spring.
Razor Shines
04-02-2008, 06:44 PM
real simple answer is don't sign an LOI till the spring.
Wouldn't they be more likely to miss out on the schools they want to go to? I think that they should be let out of their LOIs if the coach leaves for any reason. Why force a kid into a situation that he didn't plan on being in? It sucks that IU recruits might not come to IU, but I completely understand their situation. They should do what's best for themselves.
redsfanmia
04-02-2008, 06:51 PM
Who cares if IU's recruits are going to come or not. After seeing the way that Kelvin Sampson's recruits (Ellis, Thomas) and players (Bassett) have acted I would stay as far away from any of his recruits as possible. Indiana is not going to be good for a few years lets accept that and roll with it. Crean will have the program back near the top of the Big Ten and or on the national level soon.
flyer85
04-02-2008, 07:03 PM
Wouldn't they be more likely to miss out on the schools they want to go to? if you're good, not a chance unless your stock plummets. there is really no advantage for the kid, if he a good player, to sign an LOI in the November period.
WVRed
04-03-2008, 07:25 AM
IMHO, you sign a LOI with the school and if the school doesn't fire the coach(their choice) and instead the coach takes another job(not their choice) then I(Marquette in this case) would be disinclined to release a player from their LOI. It's like getting kicked in the nuts twice. First coach takes another job and then secondly players don't want to honor their signed LOIs and the school has done nothing that has caused this to happen.
It depends on the kid signing the LOI.
Some will sign with a program just for the prestige of playing there regardless of who is coach(Duke or UNC). Others will committ just to stay closer to home. However, the coach is the main person trying to sell these kids on the college and especially in cases of a coach like Rick Pitino or Tim Floyd, you have somebody with NBA credentials. Kids wont stay and play if one of those two, for example, decided to bolt.
Unfortunately, most kids sign to play for the coach, not the university.
Well, I've read through most of the articles and interviews now. The impression I get is that Jordan Crawford is leaning towards staying and Eli Holman is leaning towards transferring. I would also be surprised if Crean reinstates either Bassett or Ellis.
As far as next year's recruits, both Pritchard and Roth have said they intend to honor their LOI and look forward to playing for Crean. Ebanks is likely a longshot at this point but there is a decent chance Holloway will still come.
Pretty good, all things considered I'd say.
Pretty good, all things considered I'd say.
Brandon McGee has been noticably silent. I figure he's leaning towards transferring as well.
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 03:59 PM
Brandon McGee has been noticably silent. I figure he's leaning towards transferring as well.
So assuming you're right, how many scholarship guys will they have?
So assuming you're right, how many scholarship guys will they have?
If McGee and Holman transfer and Bassett and Ellis are not allowed back...I count 4 current scholarship players and 2 inbound recruits. I need to look again to make sure.
EDIT: I just looked and that's correct.
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 04:10 PM
If McGee and Holman transfer and Bassett and Ellis are not allowed back...I count 4 current scholarship players and 2 inbound recruits. I need to look again to make sure.
EDIT: I just looked and that's correct.
Will IU allow him to bring in a JUCO or two?
I think there is a better than average chance Crean can convince McGee and Holman to stick around. They are garuanteed lots of playing time. Plus, there are still some decent uncommitted recruits he may be able to bring in.
Here's what he said about JUCO players, per the Indy Star.
***** TO JUCO OR NOT TO JUCO, THAT'S THE QUESTION: An hour or so after the press conference had officially ended, I was part of a small group of IU beat writers who had an interview session with Crean. I asked him if the current roster situation might make him take a look at the junior college route, something that others such as Kelvin Sampson, were always quick to explore. I was a little surprised by Crean's answer. But I should say I was pleasantly surprised. Here's what he said: "The one thing you can't do is go for a quick fix. That's the one thing that whoever is working with me is that we're going to have to take some cleansing breaths every day. I learned that in Lamaze class when we had our first baby. We're going to take our time and make sure we don't rush into anything. With that being said, you have to look at the academic background of whoever it is. I'm big on that attendance part. You don't get that as much with the junior college piece but you get the grades. I've got to learn what the admissions standards are here. I felt like at Marquette it was going to take two years to understand the landscape academically there. It probably took me two and a half. But we ended up graduating all 23 players who used their eligibility, and in May they'll go 26 of 26. And in December it will be 27 of 27. God willing One last player who would get through that last semester. But I think everyone here will get a feel for what I feel about what academics means. Now what that means as far as a two-year player or a four-year player or a transfer from another Division I school I don't know yet. I really don't. But I'm never opposed to recruiting the right young man. And I think when you mention junior colleges it has got to be as much program based as it is player based. What kind of discipline are they coming with? What kind of values are they coming with? How have they done academically? What is the character? We did a little bit at Marquette. I don't think you ever really shut the door on anything.'' Now that's something interesting stuff.
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 04:39 PM
He's absolutely right about the JUCOs.
Some of them do it right. Some don't. Almost all of them can play, though.
I like what he said about not going for the "quick fix". He's asking fans to be patient and let him build the program the right way. I have to admit, I'm liking Overrated Tom Crean more and more everyday.
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 04:45 PM
I like what he said about not going for the "quick fix". He's asking fans to be patient and let him build the program the right way. I have to admit, I'm liking Overrated Tom Crean more and more everyday.
Like the guy from Milwaukee said and I've told you, he's a good-natured, charming guy. Is that overrated?
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 04:52 PM
He's no Happy Osbourne.
Mr. Charm himself.
Like the guy from Milwaukee said and I've told you, he's a good-natured, charming guy. Is that overrated?
You know I don't think he's overrated. I've always liked the guy.
Mr. Charm himself.
dab and Happy sitting in a tree...
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 04:58 PM
dab and Happy sitting in a tree...
He'd break the branch.
He'd break the branch.
:eek:
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 05:01 PM
:eek:
??? I'm saying he's heavy.
Dirty minded fool.
??? I'm saying he's heavy.
Dirty minded fool.
:lol:
I knew you were. I just didn't know how to respond to that!
Meanie!!
It's not like he's Rick Majerus!! He's a short fellow too!
Trolls!!! You're hijacking an IU thread!!!
dabvu2498
04-03-2008, 05:08 PM
Trolls!!! You're hijacking an IU thread!!!
OK... back to the topic at hand... the most overrated coach at the most overrated program in college basketball. ;)
Trolls!!! You're hijacking an IU thread!!!
:party: :rockband: :party: :rockband:
OK... back to the topic at hand... the most overrated coach at the most overrated program in college basketball. ;)
C'mon, it's not like they haven't won a Championship in 20+ years.
:lol:
It's payback, right WMR?
C'mon, it's not like they haven't won a Championship in 20+ years.
:(
:lol:
It's payback, right WMR?
What's good for the goose... ;)
I was always so polite in the UK threads...:dunno:
Where would you rank the Crean hire on your list of candidates?
Where would you rank the Crean hire on your list of candidates?
Honestly, I didn't think they had any chance to get him. I would have had him in the top 3 if I knew he were a "legit" candidate.
Interesting note from Devin Ebanks' AAU coach.
Lawrence McGugins, the AAU coach and trusted adviser to top recruit Devin Ebanks, believes Indiana made a solid hire by grabbing Crean. “He’s won in a major conference, one of the top conferences,” he told me today. “He’s a good catch, a great coach. He knows what he’s doing in running a program all around.” Ebanks is waiting to hear from Crean before moving forward with his decision. The 6-9 wing from New York City is also considering Memphis, Rutgers, Texas and West Virginia.
Wow, if they're able to keep Ebanks from going to Memphis that would be massive.
Wow, if they're able to keep Ebanks from going to Memphis that would be massive.
Crean is going to have one pretty big selling point right now - playing time. And lots of it. Of course, a kid like Ebanks is probably going to get plenty of minutes anywhere he goes so who knows.
Mutaman
04-03-2008, 06:41 PM
I'm a long time Marquette fan. Crean works hard, is a good promotor, and for the most part, his kids like him. His problem was that in 9 years he never recruited a decent big man.
An ok hire for Indiana but you really missed the boat by not getting Tony Bennett. In the meantime, Marquette now has a top 25 team with 4 returning staters, and no coach.
fearofpopvol1
04-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Admittedly, I don't know much about the recruiting class for next year. Can someone fill me in (or point me to a site that fills me in) about the recruits that were in place for next year, how they rank and what their status is at the moment exactly?
redsfanmia
04-03-2008, 09:11 PM
Wow, if they're able to keep Ebanks from going to Memphis that would be massive.
Let him go play for that oily, slick, snake oil salesman. Cut ties with all things Sampson and start all over.
An ok hire for Indiana but you really missed the boat by not getting Tony Bennett. In the meantime, Marquette now has a top 25 team with 4 returning staters, and no coach.
I don't think they missed the boat at all. Bennett said he flat wasn't interested. There wasn't much IU could do about that.
Eric Gordon announced he's definitely going pro. No surprise there.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Eric Gordon announced he's definitely going pro. No surprise there.
I'm stunned that he wouldn't want to be coached by Overrated Crean.
S'alright. Now he'll go on the play for Coach Overrated Dunleavy.
It didn't matter who the coach was. He was going pro regardless. That decision was made before he ever set foot in Bloomington.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 01:02 PM
It didn't matter who the coach was. He was going pro regardless. That decision was made before he ever set foot in Bloomington.
I know. I just wanted to work in an overrated reference.
I figured that. I thought you were a Crean fan? You think he's overrated too?
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 01:22 PM
I figured that. I thought you were a Crean fan? You think he's overrated too?
No. Not at all. I just want to keep that alive so when he beats UK and/or Big 10 Championship you can remind WMR.
No. Not at all. I just want to keep that alive so when he beats UK and/or Big 10 Championship you can remind WMR.
When it happens, you better believe I'll be reminding WMR. ;)
Hoosier Red
04-04-2008, 02:18 PM
I saw a snippet in the Seth Davis story on CNNSI.COM that made me smile from ear to ear.
"Crean spouts cliches, oozes corn and believes every word of it. His energy borders on manic, which is why it is tough to play and work for him. But his effort and intensity is always there."
Especially the first part, but it reminded me of Terry Hoeppner.
If he can have that type of an impact with a much easier sales job, I'll be ecstatic.
Let him go play for that oily, slick, snake oil salesman. Cut ties with all things Sampson and start all over.
That's cutting your nose to spite your face isn't it? If by cutting all ties to Sampson you mean getting rid of all players on the roster and holding open tryouts at the HPER.
Ebanks is a top 20 recruit, who has no warts to this point. The fact that he's looking a Memphis shows he wants to play for a top program.
My mistake, Gordon hasn't announced anything yet. Hutchens is reporting that he will go pro on his blog but EJ hasn't officially announced yet.
Cutting ties w/ Ebanks just b/c he's considering Memphis now would be incredibly foolish.
Cutting ties w/ Ebanks just b/c he's considering Memphis now would be incredibly foolish.
I'm quite confident Tom Crean will not be "cutting ties" with Ebanks. In fact, he's already said he plans to contact both Ebanks and Holloway as well as the other two committed signees (Roth and Pritchard).
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Cutting ties w/ Ebanks just b/c he's considering Memphis now would be incredibly foolish.
It's a similar reaction to UK fans saying Scotty Hopson is no good or wouldn't have fit in after he signed with UT. :D
It's a similar reaction to UK fans saying Scotty Hopson is no good or wouldn't have fit in after he signed with UT. :D
Who said that?
Who said that?
That's what I was planning to ask. I was hoping you didn't say that.
If Scotty had chosen UK, he WOULD have become a competent defensive player. Know why? Because otherwise he wouldn't have gotten to play.
At UT he'll have no such constraints. They don't play much defense in Knoxville.
Nowhere did I disparage Hopson's talent, nor would I ever do such a thing. He's an incredibly talented offensive player... who currently doesn't play a lick of defense.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:25 PM
Who said that?
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1587892&postcount=105
He compare him to OJ MAYO and that means he thinks he sucks???
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:27 PM
If Scotty had chosen UK, he WOULD have become a competent defensive player. Know why? Because otherwise he wouldn't have gotten to play.
Unlike Mark Coury. :D:D:D
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:29 PM
He compare him to OJ MAYO and that means he thinks he sucks???
No, but the quote does say he wouldn't fit in at UK.
And you, yourself, said he wasn't good defensively. How much have you seen Hopson play?
All I'm saying is, fans of any team have a tendancy to spit venom at players who choose not to play for them.
Ask Philly fans about JD Drew. Or Charger fans about Eli Manning.
Unlike Mark Coury. :D:D:D
If you could put Coury's defensive effort into Scotty Hopson's body, you'd have probably a top five college player.
At UT he'll have no such constraints. They don't play much defense in Knoxville.
They must have played some defense somewhere along the way. They were 5th in the SEC in scoring defense.
All I'm saying is, fans of any team have a tendancy to spit venom at players who choose not to play for them.
Not Kentucky fans. They are above the fray.
No, but the quote does say he wouldn't fit in at UK.
All I'm saying is, fans of any team have a tendancy to spit venom at players who choose not to play for them.
Ask Philly fans about JD Drew. Or Charger fans about Eli Manning.
Would BCG make the same promises to Scotty that I have zero doubts that Pearl made? Nope.
Pearl has basically already bequeathed Lofton's minutes to Scotty next year.
They must have played some defense somewhere along the way. They were 5th in the SEC in scoring defense.
FIFTH in the WAY DOWN SEC. With their BEST team ever.
Plus, make 'em play half-court and you can absolutely destroy them.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Would BCG make the same promises to Scotty that I have zero doubts that Pearl made? Nope.
Pearl has basically already bequeathed Lofton's minutes to Scotty next year.
And what does that have to do with anything. I'm sure BG could've promised Hopson some minutes.
FIFTH in the WAY DOWN SEC. With their BEST team ever.
Plus, make 'em play half-court and you can absolutely destroy them.
I have a hard time believing a team can win 31 games without playing defense. I agree they don't play "lock down" defense but they don't play "matador" defense either.
And what does that have to do with anything. I'm sure BG could've promised Hopson some minutes.
I'm sure he didn't. I'm sure he told him that PT is earned through practice, and perhaps Gillispie's biggest, most important tenet is playing hard, active, on-ball defense.
Hopson will play the same amount of minutes at UT no matter what he does in practice, or how hard he exerts himself on defense.
Have you heard scouting reports of this kid in high school? Perhaps one of the most disinterested players on the defensive end that many have ever seen.
And what does that have to do with anything. I'm sure BG could've promised Hopson some minutes.
So you are saying Pearl is a better recruiter than BG.
UK is lucky to not have a bum like Hopson on their squad.
Hell no, I would have loved for Hopson to come to UK. If he was willing to put the work in, it would have been truly something to see what kind of player Gillispie would have turned him into. He will not reach his full potential at UT.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:39 PM
So you are saying Pearl is a better recruiter than BG.
??? Proof is in the pudding.
We will see.
So, would you say Lofton would have been a better player if he had played for BG instead of Pearl?
Of course.
That is the biggest contrast on-court between Gillispie and OTS: Player Development.
Joe Crawford is my ultimate example.
The way he grew over the past year, when he did relatively little growing over the previous three, is one of the most miraculous turnarounds I have ever witnessed. He went from a negative defensive presence to a player who took pride in being able to play sticky on-man defense.
Did Lofton have the same growth potential as Crawford? Highly unlikely. However, was he any better at playing defense when he graduated than when he arrived on campus? If so, not by much.
Hell, Look at Perry Stevenson. Asides from his Stick Man body, he looked and played like a COMPLETELY different player.
At this point in time, if I had to rate BCG's strongest asset, it would be his--and his staff's--player development philosophy/ability.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:47 PM
So, would you say Lofton would have been a better player if he had played for BG instead of Pearl?
That's too hypothetical for my blood.
I know this... JaJuan Smith had no business on an SEC roster as a freshman. I didn't think he'd come back for a sophmore year. And next year it's likely he'll be on an NBA roster.
BTW:
Pearl, 3rd year at UT: 31-5, conference champs, Sweet 16
Gillispie, 3rd year at A&M: 27-7, 2nd place conference, Sweet 16
I'd say pretty comparable.
Maybe Stevenson and Crawford are more of an indictment of Tubby's ability to develop rather than a feather in the cap of BG? Just thinking out loud.
Hoosier Red
04-04-2008, 03:52 PM
dangit people, this is an IU thread.
If you want to take this Scotty Hopson garbage elsewhere, please disgrace other threads with a guy not even good enough to play for UK.
:p::p:
Maybe Stevenson and Crawford are more of an indictment of Tubby's ability to develop rather than a feather in the cap of BG? Just thinking out loud.
Perhaps so. Although his quick turnarounds at other schools makes me believe it was perhaps six of one, half a dozen of the other.
dangit people, this is an IU thread.
If you want to take this Scotty Hopson garbage elsewhere, please disgrace other threads with a guy not even good enough to play for UK.
:p::p:
You'll get use to the troll. WMR is always railroading perfectly good IU threads.
You'll get use to the troll. WMR is always railroading perfectly good IU threads.
:evil:
My plan is coming together nicely.
:evil:
Along with my cohort, supervillain, evil genius dabvu.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:55 PM
Maybe Stevenson and Crawford are more of an indictment of Tubby's ability to develop rather than a feather in the cap of BG? Just thinking out loud.
Possible. But there is evidence that Tubby developed some players in his career.
Crawford was just neverreally suited to play for Tubby. Temprement, style of play, or really anything else. That was a bad "marriage" of player and coach.
Even early in this season, Crawford didn't seem to be "getting it." For whatever reason, he decided to play with some real effort and determination about the last two months of the season. He gives the credit to Billy G. Fine with me.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 03:57 PM
Along with my cohort, supervillain, evil genius dabvu.
I'm playing cohort now? Dang it.
It will be interesting to follow Hopson's development the next couple of years. At least it gives us something to talk about. ;)
Dab and WMR...cohorts? Scary.
It will be interesting to follow Hopson's development the next couple of years. At least it gives us something to talk about. ;)
Well, from Hopson's mouth, he's a one and done guy.
Dab and WMR...cohorts? Scary.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Does that make Dab my enemy? Or you? Now I'm confused.
Well, from Hopson's mouth, he's a one and done guy.
If that's the case, he definitely made the right school choice.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:01 PM
Well, from Hopson's mouth, he's a one and done guy.
I missed that. Where'd that come from?
I missed that. Where'd that come from?
He's been quoted as saying that. I've read it from multiple sources on www.kentuckyink.com.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:10 PM
He's been quoted as saying that. I've read it from multiple sources on www.kentuckyink.com.
Hmmm... not heard that one before.
Anyway, if he's good enough to go after one year, I'd still like to have him for that one year.
See: Carmelo, Eric Gordon, Kevin Durant, and the Ohio State freshmen from last year
Hmmm... not heard that one before.
Anyway, if he's good enough to go after one year, I'd still like to have him for that one year.
See: Carmelo, Eric Gordon, Kevin Durant, and the Ohio State freshmen from last year
He's good enough to be a "one and done" player but he still isn't good enough to play for Billy Clyde. ;)
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:31 PM
He's good enough to be a "one and done" player but he still isn't good enough to play for Billy Clyde. ;)
Well. If he's a real cancer, I don't want him around.
But most guys who are actually good enough to go to the NBA after one year are not cancerous.
Well. If he's a real cancer, I don't want him around.
But most guys who are actually good enough to go to the NBA after one year are not cancerous.
I don't think any of the players you named above were cancerous.
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't think any of the players you named above were cancerous.
I'm sure there have been some 1 and done guys that have been.
I'm sure there have been some 1 and done guys that have been.
Surely Hopson will be one of those guys. :rolleyes:
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:55 PM
Surely Hopson will be one of those guys. :rolleyes:
You must read the UK message boards.
They're even more reactionary than us here at RedsZone. :D
dabvu2498
04-04-2008, 04:59 PM
BTW, reading some more about Hopson, I found this gem:
Asked why he committed to Tennessee, Hopson replied with a question of his own.
"Why not?" he said. "Tennessee has big tradition here."
Fellas, that's what 18-19 year old kids think about tradition.
Chip R
04-04-2008, 06:15 PM
Fellas, the UK thread is here
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66125
redsfanmia
04-04-2008, 07:21 PM
Fellas, the UK thread is here
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66125
Thanks
Revering4Blue
04-05-2008, 10:56 AM
Crean on style of play
Crean opened up on what style of play IU fans can expect.
Offensively, he borrows from mentor Tom Izzo. Crean was an assistant for Izzo’s Michigan State teams for four years.
“I would like to see us be able to have an outstanding fast break, a team that runs not only on misses, but makes,” Crean said. “That was something that being with Tom Izzo at the years at Michigan State, that’s something they do an outstanding job of and something I took from him.
“We’re a team that’s going to get up and down the floor, drive in space, do our best to get the ball inside-out, score points in the lane. Some of our best post-up players at Marquette have been our guards.”
Defensively, he stressed an aggressive approach.
“Defensive end, we are going to guard the three, I want to have an outstanding half-court defense,” he said. “There is room to pick up full-court. You have to have guys who are going to make great decisions, guys who can execute under pressure and rebound.
-- By LaMond Pope, The Journal Gazette
http://jgwebblogs.typepad.com/eying_iu/
nineworldseries
04-05-2008, 11:08 AM
As a Marquette alumnus, I must say that I'm none too happy. I'm tired of coaches deserting smaller programs on the promise of quasi-glory at Big Ten schools (see Thad Matta).
WVRed
04-05-2008, 12:34 PM
As a Marquette alumnus, I must say that I'm none too happy. I'm tired of coaches deserting smaller programs on the promise of quasi-glory at Big Ten schools (see Thad Matta).
Indiana is in a different league as far as tradition. Indiana, regardless of infraction, is one of the top jobs in the nation. This is a move up for Crean.
Razor Shines
04-06-2008, 02:43 AM
The more I read about Crean the more excited I am about this hiring. My first response was "It could have been a lot worse." But now I've kind of moved to: If we couldn't get Bennett Crean is a great choice. Could be that I'm just being sold on him by the school, but I don't think so.
redsfanmia
04-06-2008, 09:39 AM
The more I read about Crean the more excited I am about this hiring. My first response was "It could have been a lot worse." But now I've kind of moved to: If we couldn't get Bennett Crean is a great choice. Could be that I'm just being sold on him by the school, but I don't think so.
I felt the same way about Creen, I really wanted Bennett but Creen has a longer track record and has been to the final four. It may take a few years but Coach Creen will have the Hoosiers back on top.
This is from Rick Bozich's column yesterday.
Here is what Crean does know: that a number of his IU players are in serious academic trouble. That he is leaving San Antonio this morning to begin the work of fixing that tomorrow.
That Armon Bassett, one of the starters dismissed from the team by interim coach Dan Dakich last week, has called to ask about reinstatement. But Jamarcus Ellis, the other dismissed starter, has not.
That Crean understands that however he decides to proceed with Bassett and Ellis, somebody is going to howl and call him too soft or too unyielding.
That Crean considers Bob Knight a friend and that the school is interested in reaching a détente with its Hall of Fame former coach.
"He knows I respect him tremendously," said Crean, who has kept notes from a Knight coaching clinic he attended when he was 19 years old. The two were also guests of St. Louis Cardinals' manager Tony LaRussa at spring training in Florida last year.
And that despite all those issues, Crean is convinced Indiana remains a job where he can do special things.
"It's going to be great," he said. "When? That's not relevant yet. But it will be. First we have to get things in order academically fast."
It appears that former IU coach Kelvin Sampson and his staff were as committed to enforcing classroom attendance as they were to keeping track of their recruiting phone calls. Players sometimes balked when they were told to run as punishment for breaking rules.
After Dakich took over Feb. 22, the interim coach tried to improve discipline. But the word is that when Dakich told one player that he wouldn't play because the kid cut class, the player replied with a text message saying he had not been punished the previous time he cut class.
"What I have to find out is who is serious about working hard, who has the motor to work the way we're going to work," Crean said. "That will be the eye-opener now."
Will that include Ellis and Bassett, the only potential returning starters?
Know this: At Marquette, Crean worked vigorously to recruit Bassett out of Terre Haute South High School. He thinks Bassett can play. But he thinks behaving as if you realize playing Division I basketball is a privilege is more important.
"I'm certainly not going to disrespect any decisions that were made before I got there," Crean said.
One day this will make quite a book.
dabvu2498
04-07-2008, 09:18 AM
He's saying all the right things, that's for sure.
The more I see/hear/think about this, he was absolutely the right guy for the job.
He's saying all the right things, that's for sure.
The more I see/hear/think about this, he was absolutely the right guy for the job.
I think so too.
It's scary to read how bad it actually was under Sampson. I'm so glad he's gone. It's hard telling how bad it wouldn't gotten if he were able to stick around another year...or longer.
This is all from last week on the Courier-Journal but it hasn't been posted here yet.
It appears that JUCO big man Josh Harrellson (photo) has received his release from Western Illinois. The Cats Pause is reporting that the 6-foot-9, 270-pound Harrellson, who played this season for Southwestern Illinois College, is now looking at Missouri, St. Louis, Kentucky, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa State, Ohio State and Washington State.
Harrellson is an intriguing prospect. He wasn't allowed to talk with Division I schools until he received the release and is now one of the better big man prospects out there. I suspect there will be a major fight for his services. He averaged 14 points and eight rebounds a game as a freshman at SW Illinois.
Upper Marlboro (Md.) Largo center Maurice Sutton, who told me on Wednesday night that he held an offer from Kentucky, might be an option for Indiana also. Sutton, who averaged 18 points, 13 rebounds and nine blocks for the Class 3-A state champions in Maryland, had been recruited by Maryland. "I really liked coach Crean," Sutton told me. He said as of late Wednesday there had been no contact from Crean.
Don't be surprised if Indiana makes a run at former Harvard commitment Frank Ben-Eze. The 6-foot-10 Ben-Eze had been recruited by Marquette before he committed to Harvard. But he's looking around again after an admissions snafu.
Gordon makes it official. He's going pro. He says it is "to compete at the highest level, not for the fame or the money." Yeah, sure Eric. I'm sure that is partially true but c'mon.
Anyway, I wish him the best of luck. I hope he continues to develop and becomes an all-star one day.
Chip R
04-07-2008, 05:33 PM
It certainly sounds like Crean has inherited a mess there. I have no idea what IU was thinking when they hired Sampson. It's probably a blessing in disguise that he couldn't stay off the phone because if he hadn't been nailed for that, all of that probably would have been allowed to continue.
It certainly sounds like Crean has inherited a mess there. I have no idea what IU was thinking when they hired Sampson. It's probably a blessing in disguise that he couldn't stay off the phone because if he hadn't been nailed for that, all of that probably would have been allowed to continue.
No kidding Chip. And now we are finding out about academic issues and a serious lack of discipline to go along with the recruiting violations. This story could have been much, much worse had it went on any longer. Good riddance to Sampson.
Chip R
04-07-2008, 05:41 PM
No kidding Chip. And now we are finding out about academic issues and a serious lack of discipline to go along with the recruiting violations.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Sooner or later the caca was going to hit the fan there. I think it's great that they caught their own violations but I get the feeling that the lack of discipline and the academic problems would have been allowed to continue as long as they won. It just seems so strange for that to happen at a school like IU that has been so clean for so long. What price victory?
fearofpopvol1
04-07-2008, 05:42 PM
Gordon makes it official. He's going pro. He says it is "to compete at the highest level, not for the fame or the money." Yeah, sure Eric. I'm sure that is partially true but c'mon.
Anyway, I wish him the best of luck. I hope he continues to develop and becomes an all-star one day.
If his performance post-Sampson is what the NBA has to look forward to, it's going to be a long ride.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Sooner or later the caca was going to hit the fan there. I think it's great that they caught their own violations but I get the feeling that the lack of discipline and the academic problems would have been allowed to continue as long as they won. It just seems so strange for that to happen at a school like IU that has been so clean for so long. What price victory?
It's very sad indeed. I don't see how Greenspan survives this one. He's off the hook for the hiring of KS in my opinion but if he knew players were routinely skipping class, that's another story entirely. He could have done something about that.
WVRed
04-07-2008, 06:35 PM
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Sooner or later the caca was going to hit the fan there. I think it's great that they caught their own violations but I get the feeling that the lack of discipline and the academic problems would have been allowed to continue as long as they won. It just seems so strange for that to happen at a school like IU that has been so clean for so long. What price victory?
If Indiana(the university) wanted to send a message, they should have self imposed a ban from tournament play. I think that would keep future NCAA infractions away.
I want to know where the rest of the university staff was? Where was the AD? How are the rest of these jokers allowed to avoid a real housecleaning?
Talk about ruining your previous shiny reputation as the "GOLDEN BOY" of college athletics.
No more sanctimonious Hoosier fans!! :party:
fearofpopvol1
04-07-2008, 06:40 PM
If Indiana(the university) wanted to send a message, they should have self imposed a ban from tournament play. I think that would keep future NCAA infractions away.
And it would also keep future players from wanting to play at Indiana as well.
Chip R
04-07-2008, 06:45 PM
If Indiana(the university) wanted to send a message, they should have self imposed a ban from tournament play. I think that would keep future NCAA infractions away.
Perhaps. I guess I'm not seeing why people think the NCAA is going to come down hard on IU. They fired the coach who committed the offenses and they've been clean as a whistle for over 40 years. It's not like the players were getting gifts or anything.
I just think the general lack of oversight which is plainly evident at IU should require that the inquiry goes deeper than Kelvin Sampson.
And I would expect a university such as Indiana would want to do such introspection by their own volition...
Chip R
04-07-2008, 06:51 PM
I just think the general lack of oversight which is plainly evident at IU should require that the inquiry goes deeper than Kelvin Sampson.
And I would expect a university such as Indiana would want to do such introspection by their own volition...
I'm sure the NCAA will thoroughly investigate the situation but unless there's a charge of lack of institutional control, it's all on Sampson and he's gone.
WVRed
04-07-2008, 08:38 PM
And it would also keep future players from wanting to play at Indiana as well.
How would it be any worse than if the NCAA imposed the sanctions? My point was they should have imposed it during the tournament this year. If that happened, only this team would have been punished.
I'm sure the NCAA will thoroughly investigate the situation but unless there's a charge of lack of institutional control, it's all on Sampson and he's gone.
Greenspan knew it was going on apparently, and he is still there.
There simply is no precedent for a postseason ban due to improper phone calls. And the phone calls were the only issue on the table at the time. Now, if these stories about players routinely skipping class and failing drug tests turn out to be true, I can see the NCAA coming down harder on them. That said, I still don't see a postseason ban. Those are typically reserved for programs that get caught paying players, buying them cars, etc. I definitely see a probation period and maybe another scholarship or two taken away.
Crean was asked yesterday about the reports of academic troubles but he wouldn't discuss it. The fact that he didn't outright deny the report is a bit telling though. There is probably some truth in the report.
He was also asked about Jamarcus Ellis and Armon Bassett's status but he wouldn't comment on that either.
SunDeck
04-08-2008, 09:49 AM
From this morning's HT:
Crean, who did spend a few days in San Antonio, would not go into detail about the academic troubles that are apparently plaguing some Indiana players.
“I can’t elaborate, but it’s not good,” he said. “We have a lot of work to do. I think you’re going to get sick of hearing me say that, but I have no other way to put it. It’s a situation that needs to be addressed immediately.”
The article makes it sound as though things are worse than IU admitted earlier.
The article makes it sound as though things are worse than IU admitted earlier.
And if that is true, Greenspan and anyone else in the administration with knowledge of it needs to go.
SunDeck
04-08-2008, 11:32 AM
Like I said, the article makes it sound that way. Whether that is the truth or not, I don't know.
There was an article in the HT last week, detailing the supposed pressure put on Greenspan to hire Sampson in the first place from above (Herbert and a Trustee or two). And although he has never come out and said it, I believe the implication there is that he didn't want Sampson in the first place. If that is the case, then one could very easily make a case for Greenspan; after all it was his decision to put the monitoring program in place that ultimately brought Sampson down. People say it was a lowly intern, but the kid was doing his job under the authority of the AD.
Obviously, if the academics under Greenspan are not a priority, then he's not in the right place. However, it also has A LOT to do with the coach whether a kid does his homework and takes classes seriously.
Boston Red
04-08-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm not sure why it matters if IU gets a postseason ban for next year. They're likely to be awful anyway. Take your one-year post-season ban and ask for a TV ban, too, so no one is forced to watch you play that first year and move on.
SunDeck
04-08-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm not sure why it matters if IU gets a postseason ban for next year. They're likely to be awful anyway. Take your one-year post-season ban and ask for a TV ban, too, so no one is forced to watch you play that first year and move on.
Big Ten network is taking care of that quite nicely. :)
I really don't think they will get a postseason ban.
I don't either. I do think the hammer should fall on more than just Sampson, however.
I do think the hammer should fall on more than just Sampson, however.
So do I.
fearofpopvol1
04-08-2008, 04:39 PM
I've just always despised self-imposed post-season bans because they never punish the right people. It's like when Michigan had one some years back (when they actually would've qualified for the tourney). Was that fair for those seniors to have to sit out of the tourney because of some bonehead moves by Fisher, Webber and Rose? Not at all.
Ban Sampson from the NCAA, fire Greenspan, impose sanctions on the Indiana president. Just punish the right people.
Per Inside the Hall (http://www.insidethehall.com/):
The buzz this evening is that former Ball State head coach Tim Buckley will follow Tom Crean to Indiana and become the top assistant to the new head coach. Buckley was originally on Crean’s staff at Marquette before coaching at Ball State for six seasons. Buckley then went to Iowa as an assistant to Steve Alford before returning to Marquette.
Buckley’s most notable moment as a head coach came in 2001 when he led Ball State to wins over Kansas and UCLA in the Maui Invitational. As an assistant coach at Marquette, he played a big part in bringing Dwyane Wade to Milwaukee. His strong mid-western ties should bode well for recruiting the Big Ten.
Boston Red
04-09-2008, 09:52 AM
Buckley was a horrible head coach, but a lot of great assistant coaches can't make that transition. Likely a very good pickup for Crean's staff.
Boston Red
04-09-2008, 10:01 AM
I see Xavier just nabbed Holloway. Nice.
I don't think Crean will miss him long.
Yeah, I just saw that. Oh well.
I'll be surprised if Ebanks doesn't end up in Memphis. Crean definitely has a tough road ahead.
flyer85
04-09-2008, 10:31 AM
sad part is that all of this is self inflicted. With the NCAA violations hanging over their head it also makes recruiting tough in the short term. At this point IU needs closure more than anything.
From the Herald-Times blog.
Amid reports that Terrell Holloway has signed with Xavier, the other former Indiana commit who escaped his scholarship has set up visits to the four schools he is now considering.
Devin Ebanks, a 6-9 high-scoring wing out of New York City, will begin his visits this weekend with a trip to West Virginia. He’ll play in the Jordan Brand Classic all-star game a week later, then take weekend trips to Texas, then Rutgers before ending his tour on May 9 with a visit to the campus of the national runner-up, Memphis.
He plans on making a decision shortly after that visit.
Though Ebanks has been in contact with new Indiana coach Tom Crean, it looks like a re-commitment to Indiana is unlikely. Sources in New York say that Ebanks has been scared off by the unstable situation in Bloomington.
His AAU coach, Lawrence McGugins, said that Ebanks still loves the Indiana fans and appreciates the history of the university.
“It’s really just a shame what happened there,” he said. “This isn’t a fun process for us. There were a lot of strong ties there. But you only really get one chance to get this right, and we need to do what’s best.”
Ebanks was the highest ranked of Indiana’s 2008 recruits (Rivals considers him the No. 13 player in the country) and was expected to fill part of scoring void left by the departures of D.J. White and Eric Gordon.
Indiana’s incoming class is now down to forward Tom Pritchard and guard Matt Roth, neither of whom are ranked by Rivals.com.
dabvu2498
04-09-2008, 01:18 PM
From the Herald-Times blog.
Don't sweat it, BRM.
He'll get to do exactly what he wants at Memphis. Run up and down the court, shoot the ball whenever he wants, and never play a lick of D.
Because Crean would have forced him to become a complete player. He won't have to put that work in at Memphis.
Look familiar? ;) :D
Don't sweat it, BRM.
He'll get to do exactly what he wants at Memphis. Run up and down the court, shoot the ball whenever he wants, and never play a lick of D.
Because Crean would have forced him to become a complete player. He won't have to put that work in at Memphis.
Look familiar? ;) :D
Good points. I should spend a few posts letting everyone know how overrated Ebanks really is and how he'd be a terrible fit at IU anyway. Good riddance to him, for sure.
dabvu2498
04-09-2008, 01:47 PM
Good points. I should spend a few posts letting everyone know how overrated Ebanks really is and how he'd be a terrible fit at IU anyway. Good riddance to him, for sure.
Yeah. Who wants the #13 rated prospect in the country. We got JUCOs and walk-ons better than him!
Yeah. Who wants the #13 rated prospect in the country. We got JUCOs and walk-ons better than him!
Yeah, who needs him. Crean needs to start recruiting floor slappers by golly.
SunDeck
04-09-2008, 01:57 PM
Yeah, who needs him. Crean needs to start recruiting floor slappers by golly.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/ind/graphics/hof/huffman.gif
Rumor has it Armon Bassett is shooting jumpers at the Hall with Tom Crean. Interesting.
Don't sweat it, BRM.
He'll get to do exactly what he wants at Memphis. Run up and down the court, shoot the ball whenever he wants, and never play a lick of D.
Because Crean would have forced him to become a complete player. He won't have to put that work in at Memphis.
Look familiar? ;) :D
lol :rolleyes:
redsfanmia
04-09-2008, 03:57 PM
I would rather have 4 year players than a one year guy like Ebanks. We have had our one year player in Gordon and honestly he was good but not great and he always seemed to have one foot out the door. I want Crean to go after guys like Purdue has like Hummel or Johnson guys who will be there all four years.
gilpdawg
04-09-2008, 07:18 PM
Perhaps. I guess I'm not seeing why people think the NCAA is going to come down hard on IU. They fired the coach who committed the offenses and they've been clean as a whistle for over 40 years. It's not like the players were getting gifts or anything.
Yeah, no kidding. It's not like they had assistant coaches sending cash to players in envelopes or anything like that.:D
redsfanmia
04-09-2008, 07:29 PM
The worst thing about the whole situation is that now we IU fans cant look down upon Kentucky for being a bunch of cheaters.
fearofpopvol1
04-09-2008, 11:29 PM
Supposedly, the NBA is seriously considering making players stay for 2 years. I think it'd be great, but even if it passes, it won't be for a few more seasons.
Supposedly, the NBA is seriously considering making players stay for 2 years. I think it'd be great, but even if it passes, it won't be for a few more seasons.
I thought I read it wouldn't take effect until 2010. Myles Brand and David Stern both support it.
WVRed
04-10-2008, 11:47 AM
I thought I read it wouldn't take effect until 2010. Myles Brand and David Stern both support it.
One idea I read that makes some sense is to do something similar to baseball. If a player wants to declare straight out of high school, go for it. If you decide to go to college, you must attend three years before you can be drafted.
Boston Red
04-10-2008, 12:29 PM
One idea I read that makes some sense is to do something similar to baseball. If a player wants to declare straight out of high school, go for it. If you decide to go to college, you must attend three years before you can be drafted.
I think that would be a fantastic rule.
I would make one change to that rule. If a player declares, but doesn't get drafted, he can still go to college. That's what this one year deal is really all about, serving as a wake-up call for the dozens of kids each year who were eschewing a free education for the pros when they actually had no shot whatsoever of playing in the league. How many kids lost their eligibility on unrealistic hoop dreams?
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 01:38 PM
One idea I read that makes some sense is to do something similar to baseball. If a player wants to declare straight out of high school, go for it. If you decide to go to college, you must attend three years before you can be drafted.
I like this idea.
Some of those guys have no business on a college campus, basketball or otherwise.
According to Terry Hutchens, Crean will likely hire Bennie Seltzer and Tim Buckley as assistant coaches. He has three open positions but no word on who the third coach may be. Seltzer is a Sampson disciple so that hire may not go over well in Bloomington. He did two years with Crean at Marquette though.
Seltzer spent the past two years at Marquette. The nine seasons before that, he was on former IU coach Kelvin Sampson's staff at Oklahoma. The NCAA punished Oklahoma for making impermissible phone calls to recruits during Sampson's tenure, but IU said Seltzer was not involved in any of the infractions.
He also played four seasons for Sampson at Washington State.
On the recruiting front, unofficial visits are scheduled to begin on Friday. No word on which recruits are planning to visit yet.
texasdave
04-10-2008, 01:50 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/04/10/bc.bkc.indiana.holloway.ap/index.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/ncaa/04/10/bc.bkc.indiana.holloway.ap/index.html
Yeah, I knew about him. The Hoosiers had four recruits committed for next year and they lost two of them, Holloway and Ebanks. They still have Pritchard and Roth. I've heard really good things about Roth.
Supposedly Billy G has an in-home with Holloway tonight.
Supposedly Billy G has an in-home with Holloway tonight.
I can't imagine why. Holloway has verballed to Xavier.
Oh duh, my bad, I meant Harrelson. lol.
Oh duh, my bad, I meant Harrelson. lol.
Ah, the JUCO kid. Hoosier fans are hoping to get him too.
Yeah, it sounds like it's going to come down to a dogfight between UK and IU.
Yeah, it sounds like it's going to come down to a dogfight between UK and IU.
Crean's going to have a tougher time selling his school than Billy will. Crean can offer lots of PT right away though.
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 02:15 PM
Crean's going to have a tougher time selling his school than Billy will. Crean can offer lots of PT right away though.
He's an interesting player, just by the look of him and reading about him and checking out some stats.
He's quite a bit more appealing since he has 3 years of eligibility left.
He's an interesting player, just by the look of him and reading about him and checking out some stats.
He's quite a bit more appealing since he has 3 years of eligibility left.
He's a big kid too. I think I read he weighs 275.
I just want a decent big man to come in so I don't have to watch DeAndre Thomas attempt to run the floor. Everytime I read about players possibly transferring I always hope it's Big D.
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 02:20 PM
He's a big kid too. I think I read he weighs 275.
6'11, right?
Who was the last JUCO kid at IU?
I know A. Barbour was the last at UK... Would we have to back to Dale Brown to find one before that? Was Rodney Dent a JUCO kid?
6'11, right?
Who was the last JUCO kid at IU?
6'9
Ellis and Big D are both JUCO's.
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 02:24 PM
6'9
Ellis and Big D are both JUCO's.
Ohhhhhhhh... yeah... that's right.
How about before that?
The last juco at UK was Kevin Galloway.
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 02:27 PM
The last juco at UK was Kevin Galloway.
He enrolled in school yet?
Ohhhhhhhh... yeah... that's right.
How about before that?
I'll have to think about that one. I don't remember any under Mike Davis.
dabvu2498
04-10-2008, 02:29 PM
I forgot one at UK. Rekalin Sims. Pretty forgettable list of JUCO guys at UK in my lifetime now that I'm looking at it.
Ohhhhhhhh... yeah... that's right.
How about before that?
I'm a dolt. Lance Stemler was also a JUCO transfer. His first year was Sampson's first.
He enrolled in school yet?
I dunno. Just messing with you.
Yeah right, DeAndre is going to be a starter next season.
Yeah right, DeAndre is going to be a starter next season.
Man, I REALLY hope Crean can find someone better than Thomas. I REALLY hope.
I'm pretty sure Earl Calloway was the only JUCO player Mike Davis had at Indiana. RMK had quite a few during his tenure.
redsfanmia
04-10-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm pretty sure Earl Calloway was the only JUCO player Mike Davis had at Indiana. RMK had quite a few during his tenure.
I only remember RMK having Dean Garrett, Keith Smart and Andre Harris. I am sure there are a few more JUCO's but I dont remember much more than that.
I only remember RMK having Dean Garrett, Keith Smart and Andre Harris. I am sure there are a few more JUCO's but I dont remember much more than that.
I read an article that said he had 9 during his time at IU.
redsfanmia
04-10-2008, 03:47 PM
I read an article that said he had 9 during his time at IU.
I am thinking Todd Jadlow was also a JUCO.
Yep, Jadlow was one. I found 8 names. I can't figure out who the 9th was.
Andre Harris
Keith Smart
Dean Garrett
Todd Jadlow
Haris Mujezinovic
Lou Moore
Chris Rowle
Rob Turner
Revering4Blue
04-10-2008, 04:15 PM
Yep, Jadlow was one. I found 8 names. I can't figure out who the 9th was.
Courtney Witte?
Courtney Witte?
He's the one. In fact, he was Knight's first JUCO recruit. Nicely done.
Hoosier Red
04-10-2008, 04:43 PM
William Gladness was a Juco
William Gladness was a Juco
The article I read may not have counted Lou Moore since he left early.
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