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View Full Version : Hamilton Takes J.J. Putz Out



reds44
04-02-2008, 01:13 AM
Down by 1 in the 9th, Hamilton hit a 2 run homer to put the Rangers up 1.

mbgrayson
04-02-2008, 01:14 AM
He nailed that one....1st pitch fastball....

Josh!

redsrule2500
04-02-2008, 01:17 AM
DANGIT! That sucks, he's freaking amazing :(

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2008, 01:17 AM
What a special talent he is. He's going to have a huge year if he can stay healthy and play 150 games.

*BaseClogger*
04-02-2008, 01:21 AM
reds44--what time does your HS start in the morning? ;)

I really need to go to bed...

reds44
04-02-2008, 01:22 AM
reds44--what time does your HS start in the morning? ;)

I really need to go to bed...
I have to be up at 7:30 (it's 12:22 here).

I'm going to bed when this game ends.

reds44
04-02-2008, 01:23 AM
DANGIT! That sucks, he's freaking amazing :(
Why are you rooting against him? :confused:

Gainesville Red
04-02-2008, 01:29 AM
I have to be up at 7:30 (it's 12:22 here).

I'm going to bed when this game ends.

I've still got a paper to write. Luckily, it's my only class tommorow morning. Drop it off, try to pay attention and not fall asleep for an hour, and get back home.

Damn baseball season. How many nights in a row can I be expected to stay up all night doing work I should have done during the day/evening? Wish the stupid university would get its priorities straight.

Stormy
04-02-2008, 01:29 AM
Why are you rooting against him? :confused:

I think he just meant that we are going to miss Hamilton, and his production, immensely. I'm more excited about the upside of Volquez than I have been with any young Reds pitcher in ages (maybe since Rijo), but I'd be lying if I didn't admit missing Hamilton. This is not going to be the same offense without him, especially with Patterson's 290sOBP taking his spot, minus Bruce, and with an uncertain usage of Votto on the horizon.

I'll likely be a Hamilton fan for life, no matter what uniform he wears.

reds44
04-02-2008, 01:31 AM
I've still got a paper to write. Luckily, it's my only class tommorow morning. Drop it off, try to pay attention and not fall asleep for an hour, and get back home.

Damn baseball season. How many nights in a row can I be expected to stay up all night doing work I should have done during the day/evening? Wish the stupid university would get its priorities straight.
Well I have to be in class from 8:15 to 3:10 tomorrow, jerk. ;)

EDIT: I like the Mariners post game girl.

redsrule2500
04-02-2008, 01:32 AM
Why are you rooting against him? :confused:

I'm not so much rooting against him, but hoping that we made the right move trading him.

RedsManRick
04-02-2008, 01:58 AM
I really like that Josh Hamilton is getting a chance to play everyday. It's such a wonderful story of redemption. But despite his talent, I'm glad his continued health and success is the risk of another organization and that we were able to turn his promise in to a very promising young starter.

Topcat
04-02-2008, 06:41 AM
Was a value for value trade. I was a guy who really did not want to see him traded. But In end the return was worth the gamble. God Bless Josh and I wish him nothing but the best.

RedFanAlways1966
04-02-2008, 07:16 AM
I like Josh too, but did not have a problem with the trade.

I just hope Josh does not end up like Ben Broussard... talked about on RZ like the REDS traded the next Ted Williams after his trade. Then ends having a mediocre (still not done) type of career. Granted Branyan was nuthin', but still...

Do any of you RZ'ers admit to crying-and-moaning about the Ben Broussard trade? Care to give your feelings now? :evil:

jojo
04-02-2008, 07:55 AM
That's why the Reds traded him....he's a rat bastard.... :D

remdog
04-02-2008, 08:20 AM
I just hope Josh does not end up like Ben Broussard... talked about on RZ like the REDS traded the next Ted Williams after his trade. Then ends having a mediocre (still not done) type of career. Granted Branyan was nuthin', but still...

Do any of you RZ'ers admit to crying-and-moaning about the Ben Broussard trade? Care to give your feelings now? :evil:

You are wrong. Branyan was less than nuthin'..:p:

Ben hasn't been Ted Williams but he's been more than Branyan. :)

Rem

jojo
04-02-2008, 08:35 AM
Arlington is a great environment for Hamilton hitting-wise (probably better for a lefty than GABP). If he can minimize his platoon splits and stay on the field, he'll be considered a steal even if Volquez becomes a mainstay for the Reds.

PuffyPig
04-02-2008, 08:43 AM
Arlington is a great environment for Hamilton hitting-wise (probably better for a lefty than GABP). If he can minimize his platoon splits and stay on the field, he'll be considered a steal even if Volquez becomes a mainstay for the Reds.

If Volquez flourishes in Cincy,the trade can't ever be considered a steal for the Rangers. Good pitching is too hard to find.

There's nothing wrong with a trade that benefits both teams.

jojo
04-02-2008, 08:49 AM
If Volquez flourishes in Cincy,the trade can't ever be considered a steal for the Rangers. Good pitching is too hard to find.

There's nothing wrong with a trade that benefits both teams.

If Volquez is a mainstay for the Reds, both teams would benefit. That said, if Hamilton becomes the player he's capable of becoming, he'll be more valuable.

Josh was a 2.5-3 win player last season having only played 90 games. He doesn't have to improve one iota but rather just play 140 games a season and he'd be an elite player.

Josh being classified a steal in hindsight after a couple of seasons with the Rangers isn't hammering Krivsky-it's admitting Hamilton is that good. I'm not critical of the trade BTW even if Hamilton pans out because while hindsight is 20/20 it often doesn't remember the risks that give context.

lollipopcurve
04-02-2008, 08:52 AM
If he can minimize his platoon splits and stay on the field, he'll be considered a steal even if Volquez becomes a mainstay for the Reds.

A steal is something you get for nothing.

The Reds stole Hamilton in the Rule V.

mbgrayson
04-02-2008, 09:23 AM
The Rangers home page (http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=tex)has a link to last night's Hamilton HR, and a good catch.

It is worth noting that Hamilton hit this HR in Seattle, not Arlington, and that he hit it off the best closer in the AL last year, JJ Putz.

The game last night also showcased Hamilton's speed: he beat out an infield hit and came around to score, and made two very nice catches in centerfield. He also struck out a couple times.

I will miss the Reds having Josh Hamilton. I cared more about seeing him hit than anyone else last year. I think it was partly wanting to see him overcome the odds against a comeback after his drug addiction. But I just like the guy...he was down to earth, real, and had a presence about him. I miss him. I do understand that the Reds needed pitching, and I hope the trade is indeed 'value for value'.

Chip R
04-02-2008, 09:28 AM
Not that I'm terribly upset losing Josh - especially since we got Mad Dog back - but did anyone else wonder if he'd have thrown that runner out at home - or the 3rd base coach wouldn't have sent him - if he were playing CF on Monday instead of Patterson? Of course Patterson made some nice catches out there - as did Josh last night.

redsfan30
04-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Not that I'm terribly upset losing Josh - especially since we got Mad Dog back - but did anyone else wonder if he'd have thrown that runner out at home - or the 3rd base coach wouldn't have sent him - if he were playing CF on Monday instead of Patterson? Of course Patterson made some nice catches out there - as did Josh last night.

Nobody had a chance to throw out Hudson at the plate Monday afternoon. By the time the ball got to Patterson, Hudson was already five steps around the bag at third.

WMR
04-02-2008, 09:49 AM
Hold on, isn't Hamilton married? :eek:

Chip R
04-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Nobody had a chance to throw out Hudson at the plate Monday afternoon. By the time the ball got to Patterson, Hudson was already five steps around the bag at third.


Probably. But you have to wonder if the 3B coach would have held him because of his howitzer. It's a moot point anyway cause Patterson still would have started. ;)

oneupper
04-02-2008, 10:00 AM
The Hamilton trade opening a spot for Bruce is one thing, but when it opens a spot for Corey Patterson, it can't be as positive.

The Rangers, for their part, are seeking to make the most of their acquisition, playing Josh in CF and batting him third, putting him in a positon to shine (like last night).

vic715
04-02-2008, 10:43 AM
The Hamilton trade opening a spot for Bruce is one thing, but when it opens a spot for Corey Patterson, it can't be as positive.

The Rangers, for their part, are seeking to make the most of their acquisition, playing Josh in CF and batting him third, putting him in a positon to shine (like last night).

I could live with Patterson in CF if he were hitting way down in the order,but having him leadoff and Hatte hitting 7th makes no sense at all.
By the way Dave Ross should by you season tickets.

VR
04-02-2008, 10:47 AM
A 5 tool freak show.

http://mvn.com/mlb-rangers/2008/04/01/the-natural-hamiltons-ninth-inning-blast-saves-rangers/

The Natural: Hamilton’s Ninth Inning Blast Saves Rangers
By Joey Matschulat | April 1st, 2008
E-mail | Print | Share

Moments after outfielder David Murphy socked a lead-padding RBI double down the right field line during the top of the 8th inning of Tuesday night’s contest between the Texas Rangers and Seattle Mariners, I began hammering out a quick game recap and accompanying witty, optimistic headline to help celebrate the former club’s first win of the 2008 season.

And then some of the most shameful, pathetic defensive play I’ve witnessed since, oh, say, last year’s rendition of the Rangers flared up yet again.

The prime offenders: Ian Kinsler, Michael Young, Ben Broussard, Gerald Laird, and early on, Josh Hamilton, though at least his defensive gaffe cost Texas no runs; he was also completely vindicated by his fantastic range on two deep fly balls in the middle innings, one of which invoked vivid memories of the legendary Willie Mays over-the-shoulder catch from Game 1 of the 1954 World Series.

A litany of egregious defensive blunders from the Rangers’ defensive unit combined with Joaquin Benoit’s general ineffectiveness in the bottom half of that eighth inning to put the Rangers behind 4-3. With 2007 All-Star closer J.J. Putz (fresh off a 1.38 ERA and 0.70 WHIP campaign) coming in to attempt to lock down a second Mariners win in as many days, hope seemed all but lost.

But after a lengthy nine-pitch affair with Putz, Kinsler smashed a line drive single back through the middle to lead off the inning. Young whiffed on three pitches, setting the stage for Hamilton - the man whose singular talent, unique life story and limitless potential has already elevated him to cult hero status in Rangers fandom.

Putz’s first pitch? A 93 MPH fastball, according to MLB Gameday, though Josh himself sheepishly admitted during a brief post-game interview with broadcasters Josh Lewin and Tom Grieve that he had “no idea” what type of pitch it was that Putz unleashed towards home plate.

Not that it mattered, mind you. Hamilton socked that Putz fastball beyond the right field wall at Safeco Field for a dramatic go-ahead two-run blast, staking Texas to a 5-4 lead that closer C.J. Wilson would thankfully not relinquish in the bottom of the 9th inning.

Just two regular season games into his American League career, Josh Hamilton may already be on the verge of becoming one of the most popular Rangers to ever take the field.

jojo
04-02-2008, 11:11 AM
It is worth noting that Hamilton hit this HR in Seattle, not Arlington, and that he hit it off the best closer in the AL last year, JJ Putz.


He hit it out in right though.... Safeco punishes righties but is much more friendly to lefties.

*BaseClogger*
04-02-2008, 11:13 AM
Well I have to be in class from 8:15 to 3:10 tomorrow, jerk. ;)

EDIT: I like the Mariners post game girl.

I'd love it if my HS started at 8:15. We start at 7:30! :thumbdown

Chip R
04-02-2008, 11:24 AM
I'd love it if my HS started at 8:15. We start at 7:30! :thumbdown


It's good for you. Builds character. :)

Highlifeman21
04-02-2008, 11:24 AM
I like Josh too, but did not have a problem with the trade.

I just hope Josh does not end up like Ben Broussard... talked about on RZ like the REDS traded the next Ted Williams after his trade. Then ends having a mediocre (still not done) type of career. Granted Branyan was nuthin', but still...

Do any of you RZ'ers admit to crying-and-moaning about the Ben Broussard trade? Care to give your feelings now? :evil:

The Broussard/Branyan trade was a bittersweet moment for me. I didn't want to see Broussard go, but I loved getting Branyan. I hoped more than anything that when Larson would fail, Branyan would step in and make the most of his opportunities, but injuries hampered him, and his stay as a Red was shortlived.

I won't lie, I still toy with the idea of getting a Branyan Reds jersey, b/c he might honestly be my favorite Red of all time. Scary, but true.

I'm secure enough to admit my favorite Reds.
Dunn
Branyan
Broussard
Denorfia
Reitsma
Wagner
D. Sanders

Ltlabner
04-02-2008, 12:14 PM
I'd love it if my HS started at 8:15. We start at 7:30! :thumbdown

7:30am?

Heck, most of the day is over by then.

OldRightHander
04-02-2008, 12:29 PM
Hold on, isn't Hamilton married? :eek:

Ha ha. That reminded me of something one of my high school English teachers said once. He was talking about words or phrases that have more than one meaning depending on the context and he said, "We all know that if we say a hitter took the pitcher downtown, that he didn't drive him there for dinner." It's amazing how something can trigger a memory like that. I remember the teacher, but I had forgotten all about him saying that until just now.

WVRedsFan
04-02-2008, 03:14 PM
I'd love it if my HS started at 8:15. We start at 7:30! :thumbdown


Hmmm. My high school started at 9:00. Of course, we went until 4:30, too

And may I ask, what are you doing checking RedsZone while you are in school? :)

I know, i'm at work, so just as guilty am I...:cool:

Matt700wlw
04-02-2008, 03:15 PM
He continues to amaze.


I'll say it again, Volquez better be DAMN GOOD.

red-in-la
04-02-2008, 03:20 PM
I think this is sooooo cool. I make my living on computers, but to me they are just about the same as an automatic weapon. They can be put to proper use, but what they have done in the hands of kids has really upset me for years.

Anyway, to know that I can converse with what sounds like some seriously good headed young people that are in high school (thought good kids in a high school was kind of a dying breed) is quite gratifying.

Thanks for being here baseclogger (and others) who are fine young Reds fans......I mean it.....it means a lot to me.

:thumbup: :D ;)

red-in-la
04-02-2008, 03:25 PM
He continues to amaze.


I'll say it again, Volquez better be DAMN GOOD.

I said this over and over again a few weeks ago......Volquez will need to practically win the Cy Young Award for this to be an even trade.

But, I think getting Patterson really softened the blow of losing Hamilton. I know a lot of folks are not pleased with Patterson, but if JR goes down, and I am pretty sure he will, Bruce will have to play RF......so, having at least a decent defensive CF is better than having to rely solely on Ryan Freel day in and out.

Eventually, bat Patterson 8th and just live with the fact that having a guy that can run doubles into outs is worth the crummy offense.

remdog
04-02-2008, 03:36 PM
I said this over and over again a few weeks ago......Volquez will need to practically win the Cy Young Award for this to be an even trade.

Well, I know that I put a lot of stock in someone's opinion who thinks Josh Fogg pitches for the Rockies. :rolleyes:

Rem

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2008, 03:42 PM
I said this over and over again a few weeks ago......Volquez will need to practically win the Cy Young Award for this to be an even trade.


Wow. You have very high standards for a nearly 27-year old outfielder with 300 career atbats and an injured-prone history.

remdog
04-02-2008, 03:48 PM
I'll say it again, Volquez better be DAMN GOOD.

Or what?

The Reds with Hamilton and without pitching are still trying to fight off the Pirates for 6th place. The Reds without Hamilton and without pitching are probably the 6th place winner. Basiclly, no difference.

Apparently there are still a few of you out there that like to watch individuals at the expense of the team. You can not get it through your heads that the Reds had an excess of OF's and dearth of pitching.

But hey, the feel good story of 2007 was Josh Hamilton and his 90 games played while dealing with various problems. It was a nice diversion from admitting you were watching a crappy team. Glad you feel good---I'd rather see the Reds be good. Without taking some risk (with a freebie like Hamilton) the Reds stand to be dreck for the for the near future.

One game into the season posts like Matt's and Fred's are simply silly, IMO!

(Rant over.)

Rem

Matt700wlw
04-02-2008, 04:10 PM
Or what?


Rem

Or the trade won't look good for the Reds. If healthy (that's the if)...Hamilton WILL produce big time numbers.

I'll clarify again, I wasn't opposed to the trade, it made sense....but it also has to work out for the Reds.

Bruce sitting in AAA despite moving Hamilton bothers me too.

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2008, 04:14 PM
Or the trade won't look good for the Reds. If healthy (that's the if)...Hamilton WILL produce big time numbers.

I'll clarify again, I wasn't opposed to the trade, it made sense....but it also has to work out for the Reds.

Bruce sitting in AAA despite moving Hamilton bothers me too.

IF healthy as you said. That's a big IF. He's had a history of injury problems. And when he is healthy, he can't hit lefties. I love the guy but I still make that trade 10 times out of 10. One other thing - the Reds didn't trade Josh Hamilton to free up a spot for Jay Bruce. They made the trade to acquire a young starting pitcher with top of the rotation stuff.

Matt700wlw
04-02-2008, 04:18 PM
Did they? Or did they trade him because he wasn't a locker room favorite because other players didn't like that he got the special treatment he got? If that's the case, then couldn't Volquez have been had for something else, perhaps?

I like Volquez and he's really impressed me from what I've seen so far....but I think the above quesitons are fair.

BRM
04-02-2008, 04:19 PM
I really hope Volquez has a great start on Sunday. Otherwise, this board could get ugly.

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Did they? Or did they trade him because he wasn't a locker room favorite because other players didn't like that he got the special treatment he got?

I like Volquez and he's really impressed me from what I've seen so far....but I think the above quesiton is a fair one.

They traded him because the Reds desperately needed starting pitching and they had an excess of outfielders. Krivsky stated in his Opening Day interview that he made it clear to the Rangers if they wanted Josh Hamilton then they would have to part with Edinson Volquez.

red-in-la
04-02-2008, 04:36 PM
I think at this point, it is just time to be very glad the Reds have Volquez in the rotation and hope he does win the CY Young.....maybe he goes all Jake Peavy on us and a couple of us here eat some crow. You have to hope.

*BaseClogger*
04-02-2008, 04:50 PM
I think this is sooooo cool. I make my living on computers, but to me they are just about the same as an automatic weapon. They can be put to proper use, but what they have done in the hands of kids has really upset me for years.

Anyway, to know that I can converse with what sounds like some seriously good headed young people that are in high school (thought good kids in a high school was kind of a dying breed) is quite gratifying.

Thanks for being here baseclogger (and others) who are fine young Reds fans......I mean it.....it means a lot to me.

:thumbup: :D ;)

Glad to hear it, and I have really enjoyed my time here learning a lot about baseball. I just wish more kids in HS loved baseball these days the way they used to... :)

gm
04-02-2008, 07:09 PM
Hold on, isn't Hamilton married? :eek:

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the title...did Josh pick up the check? Did JJ take swigs of his favorite adult beverage? (what a Putz...)

Sean Casey was entrenched at Red's 1b when Ben was coming up...then Broussard toiled in relative ML obscurity until last June 24, when he bit his old ballclub in the proverbial backside

Bender updates need to be revised...to Hammy updates?

edabbs44
04-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Putz to the DL.

Sea Ray
04-02-2008, 10:32 PM
Putz to the DL.

When did he hurt his ribcage?

Gainesville Red
04-02-2008, 10:47 PM
I think they said he felt it during the batter before Hamilton.

PuffyPig
04-02-2008, 11:44 PM
I said this over and over again a few weeks ago......Volquez will need to practically win the Cy Young Award for this to be an even trade.



Why would you continually repeat a statement that is so obviously wrong?

Are you suggesting that Hamilton's trade value (at this stage) would equate to an Aaron Harang's (assuming Harang was also making the major league minimum)?

Because that is exactly what you have said.

red-in-la
04-02-2008, 11:56 PM
Why would you continually repeat a statement that is so obviously wrong?

Are you suggesting that Hamilton's trade value (at this stage) would equate to an Aaron Harang's (assuming Harang was also making the major league minimum)?

Because that is exactly what you have said.

The Reds got Harang for Guillen.....a win-win trade for Oakland, right?

Are the Reds happy they made that trade? I think so. Did Guillen help Oakland big time? Yes.

Is Hamilton's value comparable to Guillen's was when the Reds traded him? Hamilton's value is on the moon compared to what Guillen's was......so, does Volquez have to be another Harang for the Reds to win this trade? By what you said, I would say so.

Do you really believe Volquez will do for the Reds what Harang has? Maybe. But again, value for value, Volquez will have to make Harang look like Eric Milton for the Reds to win this trade by the very scale you brought up.

Puffy, IMHO you are the one who is way off on this. How do you post on this board that I am so obvioulsy wrong? So far, it can only be your opinion against mine......and I could just as easily ask you the same question......why in the world do you continue espouse that a pitcher who has been a major league FLOP so far is a better option than a guy who has been a major major league success so far?

jojo
04-03-2008, 08:16 AM
Why would you continually repeat a statement that is so obviously wrong?

Are you suggesting that Hamilton's trade value (at this stage) would equate to an Aaron Harang's (assuming Harang was also making the major league minimum)?

Because that is exactly what you have said.

I think he's suggesting Hamilton will produce at high levels.

PuffyPig
04-11-2008, 08:47 AM
FWIW, Hamilton's down to .250,.317,.472, .789.

He DH'ed last night. I don't know if that means he's slightly injured.

He continues to struggle against LH pitching.

919191
04-11-2008, 08:59 AM
FWIW, Hamilton's down to .250,.317,.472, .789.

He DH'ed last night. I don't know if that means he's slightly injured.



It means he played center field in the first game, and DH'ed in the second.

He charged a ball in the first game and came up with what looked to be a strong throw to the plate, but slipped on hte wet grass, and the throw hit the back of the mound, and kind of ended up a high pop to the catcher.

lollipopcurve
04-11-2008, 09:14 AM
I think he's suggesting Hamilton will produce at high levels.

He will, of course. But the question is for how long? The trade will have to be evaluated over time. Hamilton's main weakness appears to be his ability to stay in the lineup. If, for example, Hamilton has a couple of breakout, All-Star years and three years of part-time play while Volquez gives the Reds 5 injury-free years of league-average 200 innings, then I think you have to say the Reds will have gotten the better result.

Let's let it play out.

redsrule2500
04-11-2008, 09:45 AM
FWIW, Hamilton's down to .250,.317,.472, .789.

He DH'ed last night. I don't know if that means he's slightly injured.

He continues to struggle against LH pitching.

yay. keep doing bad lol

westofyou
04-11-2008, 10:09 AM
why in the world do you continue espouse that a pitcher who has been a major league FLOP so far is a better option than a guy who has been a major major league success so far?

So when you get suspended from MLB and miss 5 years of playing and THEN come back to RH heavy platoon success in less than 400 at bats that now constitutes as "Major" success?

Seems like me that's just as specious as saying that Volquez is FLOP.

But hey... that's just my opinion.

Tony Cloninger
04-11-2008, 10:20 AM
Exactly.....what major success. So far he has done just as much as Bernie Carbo did after his first year.

PuffyPig
04-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Puffy, IMHO you are the one who is way off on this. How do you post on this board that I am so obvioulsy wrong? So far, it can only be your opinion against mine......and I could just as easily ask you the same question......why in the world do you continue espouse that a pitcher who has been a major league FLOP so far is a better option than a guy who has been a major major league success so far?

All I'm questioning is that you contend that Volquez has to pitch like Harang for this to be a good trade for the Reds. My view is that Volquez can pitch at a much lesser level than Harang and still validate the trade.

Reds1
04-11-2008, 11:14 AM
Ah! Josh was 1/8 in a double header last night. .125 BA
He's ok! ;););)

medford
04-11-2008, 11:50 AM
I haven't and won't read thru this whole thread, but let me say that I'm in the "I hope Josh goes on to a hall of fame career and more improtantly a clean lifestyle the rest of his life" club no matter what Volquez does as a Red.

No matter how things turn out for Volquez, I think it was a move the Reds had to make. A high quality minor league arm that can miss bats and has the chance to be very special. Sure he may not work out, but that is something the Reds have sorely lacked the last decade. They've had plenty of high ceiling outfielders that had HOF potential hinted about them at some point in their career. From Reggie Sanders to Austin Kearns, Adam Dunn & Wily MO Pena. All were young studs that put up big numbers early in their career or in limit stints and had people envionsing what could become if they put it all together. Reggie came back down to earth after the Atlanta Series, but put together a very solid major league career. Kearns has never been the same since Ray King sat on him. Dunn has had a very solid career, but has never put together the consitant hitting approach that so many HOFers have and Wily Mo never did figure it all out.

Hamilton's ceiling was higher than all of these, both when he was drafter, and at the end of his first major league ceiling. However Hamilton has several questions that non of the others had to face. Serious questions marks that make all GMs raise an eyebrow at this point, wondering if he's the right fit both in the club house and on the field. Hamilton may or may not reach his vast potential. God willing he never relapses, but even so past discretions may have wrecked his body enough to put him on a similar career plane as Eric Davis who was always fighting injuries.

Meanwhile Volquez, along w/ Cueto & Bailey give the reds something they haven't had in a long, long time. Something that is not easily attained and desired by every team in the majors. Young, talented, cheap starting pitching. There is no such thing as having too much pitching. Its much easier to trade a starting pitcher to get another piece for your team than it is to trade another piece to get the pitching help that you need. volquez may never make it long term, but after watching him in spring training and the 1st game this year, I'm convinced this is a move the Reds needed to make every single time they get the chance. Especially given the long term concerns sorounding Hamilton that don't sorround a young talent like Jay Bruce

Chip R
04-11-2008, 11:57 AM
I haven't and won't read thru this whole thread, but let me say that I'm in the "I hope Josh goes on to a hall of fame career and more improtantly a clean lifestyle the rest of his life" club no matter what Volquez does as a Red.


Same here. Hoping Josh fails doesn't make this trade a success and for those who believe in karma, that could come back and bite the Reds. Whether Josh fails or succeeds in TEX is irrelevant. For this trade to be a success for the Reds, Mad Dog has to pitch well.

princeton
04-11-2008, 12:00 PM
I haven't and won't read thru this whole thread, but let me say that

that's where I usually stop reading ;)

WMR
04-11-2008, 12:26 PM
yay. keep doing bad lol

Wow, you wish bad things happen to Josh Hamilton? That's really lame.

I hope the trade works out for both teams.

M2
04-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Basically, it took one start by Edinson Volquez for people to realize the Reds got a ton of talent in return for Hamilton.

As for Hamilton, I wish him the best, but he's overrated. He doesn't hit lefties. He lacks range in CF. Health has been an issue with him and my guess is you'll see his drop under the grind of having to play every day. He might only be the third-best OF on the Rangers. That's not a slam. David Murphy (one of the more underrated players you'll find) and Milton Bradley have some game. Hamilton will do well to be a regular player in the majors. He might turn out better than that, even a lot better than that. I hope he does, but it's not a given that he will.

bucksfan
04-11-2008, 02:02 PM
I haven't and won't read thru this whole thread, but let me say that I'm in the "I hope Josh goes on to a hall of fame career and more improtantly a clean lifestyle the rest of his life" club no matter what Volquez does as a Red.

No matter how things turn out for Volquez, I think it was a move the Reds had to make. A high quality minor league arm that can miss bats and has the chance to be very special. .....


I agree 100% here. I greatly enjoyed watching Hamilton play last year, and would have this year too. But understanding the Reds had to leverage some known assets for the opportunity to build strength in another area in which they were lacking, I cannot complain about the trade based on the general reports of Volquez to-date.

If he flames out, it is still the type of deal the Reds had to attempt. I'd say for this one to be considered a good result (not a good decision, as I believe IMO it was already a good decision to try regardless), I think if Volquez simply can crack the rotation and fill in at 180+ innings ~ 4-ish ERA, it is a decent result for the Reds so they don't have to shuttle in as much "filler" in the spots behind Harang/Arroyo/Cueto. And I believe the ceiling is quite a bit higher (as well as the basement being lower)...

redsrule2500
04-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Wow, you wish bad things happen to Josh Hamilton? That's really lame.

I hope the trade works out for both teams.


Yeah, I would....I'm too much of a Reds fan to be happy in his success unfortunately. It's not like I'm wishing him ill or anything...

reds44
04-11-2008, 02:13 PM
Yeah, I would....I'm too much of a Reds fan to be happy in his success unfortunately. It's not like I'm wishing him ill or anything...
Whether Josh Hamilton does good or bad in Texas has zero effect on the Reds.

RedsManRick
04-11-2008, 02:28 PM
Don't confuse the outcome with the decision. The quality of the decision is to be judged on the soundness of the principals on which it was made. Good decisions tend to lead to good results, and visa versa. However, there's enough variation that equating one with the other can be very misleading.

The Hamilton for Volquez trade was a good decision regardless of the outcome. And as for the outcome, so far, so good.

WMR
04-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Whether Josh Hamilton does good or bad in Texas has zero effect on the Reds.

Exactly.

He's a good human being. I hope the kid flourishes and has a long, productive career and continues his life of sober living.

gm
04-11-2008, 07:29 PM
When did he hurt his ribcage?

Didn't you hear? Hamilton took him out

cincrazy
04-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Yeah, I would....I'm too much of a Reds fan to be happy in his success unfortunately. It's not like I'm wishing him ill or anything...

Do you still root for Sean Casey? Because if so, you're contradicting yourself with this statement ;)

paintmered
04-11-2008, 11:11 PM
I said this over and over again a few weeks ago......Volquez will need to practically win the Cy Young Award for this to be an even trade.

In that case, I'll eat crow when Josh Hamilton wins the AL MVP.

This was a good deal for both teams involved. Why does Texas have to lose for the Reds to "win" this trade?

savafan
04-12-2008, 12:16 AM
I'd love to see Volquez pitching to Hamilton in October.