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View Full Version : What to do when Ross comes back?



savafan
04-05-2008, 04:50 PM
Bako, seemingly a black hole at the plate, seems to call a pretty good ballgame. I like his defense behind the plate, and today he came through with the bat.

What happens when Ross comes back? Valentin isn't great defensively, but he's a pretty good pinch hitter. Still, I loathe carrying three catchers.

pedro
04-05-2008, 04:51 PM
I'd cut Valentin.

WMR
04-05-2008, 04:52 PM
As I said in the game thread, Valentin's actual stats belie his reputation as a good pinch hitter. I would keep Hatteberg and jettison Valentin. Valentin really does nothing well.

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2008, 04:53 PM
I'd cut Valentin too, but for some reason, it's hard envisioning the Reds doing that (even if that is what happens).

I do like the way Bako calls a game though. I think his arm is a little suspect, but I'd say he's a better overall option than Javy at this point.

WMR
04-05-2008, 04:54 PM
I really like the way Bako frames a pitch. (And I agree that he calls a good game.)

StillFunkyB
04-05-2008, 04:56 PM
I'd cut Valentin too, but for some reason, it's hard envisioning the Reds doing that (even if that is what happens).

I do like the way Bako calls a game though. I think his arm is a little suspect, but I'd say he's a better overall option than Javy at this point.

That throw down to third looked pretty good the other night. Little better tag by EE, and they might have gotten the call.

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2008, 05:04 PM
That throw down to third looked pretty good the other night. Little better tag by EE, and they might have gotten the call.

Don't get me wrong, his arm is better than Javy's. It's not a bad arm, just a little suspect I think.

guttle11
04-05-2008, 05:07 PM
Trade Freel or cut Hopper, move Javy to the bench/PH/emergency C-1B role, and go with a Ross/Bako platoon.

When Gonzo comes back Castro goes, and you have the makings of a decent bench.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:11 PM
I don't cut Norris Hopper. The times I've seen him play in person, I've been impressed with his mad skills. He is a fundamentally sound ballplayer. He's not a world beater, but he gets on base and from what I've seen can go and get a ball in the gap.

He's also one of the nicest people, not just ballplayers, that I've ever met.

KronoRed
04-05-2008, 05:12 PM
They should dump Valentin, they probably will go with 3 catchers and Hopper will head down to AAA

Of course it's a little early to be sold on Bako, even Castro had good games now and then.

pedro
04-05-2008, 05:14 PM
They just aren't going to cut Hopper. That's just not going to happen unless they call up another OF.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Are there any teams out there that could use a backup catcher? I was thinking Boston, but I doubt Valentin could catch Wakefield's knuckler.

Big Klu
04-05-2008, 05:21 PM
Go with 11 pitchers. Possibly Todd Coffey to Louisville.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:22 PM
Go with 11 pitchers. Possibly Todd Coffey to Louisville.

Add 1 more guy to catch 1 less? What is the definition of insanity? :p:

Big Klu
04-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Add 1 more guy to catch 1 less? What is the definition of insanity? :p:

I go back to 11 pitchers simply on principle. My goal is to eventually get down to 10 pitchers, but baby steps...baby steps.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:25 PM
I go back to 11 pitchers simply on principle. My goal is to eventually get down to 10 pitchers, but baby steps...baby steps.

I wouldn't hate a 4 man rotation on this team. ;)

reds44
04-05-2008, 05:30 PM
I know we all hate the idea of 3 catches, but if (and only if) it spells the end of Juan Castro I wouldn't mind having Ross, Bako, and Valentin on the roster at the same time. Castro brings nothing to the table.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:31 PM
I know we all hate the idea of 3 catches, but if (and only if) it spells the end of Juan Castro I wouldn't mind having Ross, Bako, and Valentin on the roster at the same time. Castro brings nothing to the table.

Okay, you might have sold me on this one.

With the rest of the roster make-up, there is no reason for Castro to ever get playing time here.

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2008, 05:38 PM
Swapping Castro for Bako is a sound idea, but what happens when Gonzo comes back? You're still going to have to get rid of someone else.

KronoRed
04-05-2008, 05:44 PM
Castro is the backup SS right now, can't dump him.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:46 PM
Castro is the backup SS right now, can't dump him.

Sure you can. You could start a fourth outfielder in place of a shortstop and not miss Castro.

WMR
04-05-2008, 05:48 PM
Castro is the backup SS right now, can't dump him.

Yeah, I think you keep Castro until A.Gon comes back, then he should be gone.

KronoRed
04-05-2008, 05:48 PM
Sure you can. You could start a fourth outfielder in place of a shortstop and not miss Castro.

So you take Keppinger out of the lineup? ;)

No team goes out without a guy who can also play SS on the bench.

reds44
04-05-2008, 05:48 PM
Swapping Castro for Bako is a sound idea, but what happens when Gonzo comes back? You're still going to have to get rid of someone else.
And that is when you get rid of the redundancy issue that is Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper.

Jpup
04-05-2008, 05:57 PM
Castro is the backup SS right now, can't dump him.

I don't see the point of Castro unless someone is hurt. You can dump Castro now and is for some reason you have to replace Kepp, you slide over Phillips and put Freel at second. Castro hasn't played at all right? Keppinger should never come out of the lineup as far as I am concerned. I was not too high on him before this year, but I am very impressed with his bat.

savafan
04-05-2008, 06:02 PM
So you take Keppinger out of the lineup? ;)



No, I was only speaking if Kepp were to be injured or need a day off. :)

Jpup
04-05-2008, 06:03 PM
No, I was only speaking if Kepp were to be injured or need a day off. :)

he's superman. why would he need a day off?:cool:

savafan
04-05-2008, 06:03 PM
I don't see the point of Castro unless someone is hurt. You can dump Castro now and is for some reason you have to replace Kepp, you slide over Phillips and put Freel at second. Castro hasn't played at all right? Keppinger should never come out of the lineup as far as I am concerned. I was not too high on him before this year, but I am very impressed with his bat.

I'd rather have Janish up here to be the backup SS than Castro.

Jpup
04-05-2008, 06:08 PM
I'd rather have Janish up here to be the backup SS than Castro.

I think we all would. :thumbup:

MississippiRed
04-05-2008, 06:31 PM
Go with 11 pitchers. Possibly Todd Coffey to Louisville.

Okay, but let's make it Fogg:)

GADawg
04-05-2008, 06:33 PM
I like the look of Javy at the plate....dude always seems to hit the ball hard...very useful imo. As for Fungo, er I mean Bako I love the fact that he had a good day but I'm still not loving the guy. As for his "game calling" skills(as opposed to Javy or anyone else)I'm not real sure how you arrive at that judgement without hearing some testimony by his pitchers. I remember down here in Atlanta alot of people used to bragg on Eddie Perez' game calling skills based on that 1 day in 5 that he caught Greg Maddux. Tough job there. Mazzone was a great pitching coach and Perez called a great game. My point? who knows... I just felt like a rant.

If Ross comes back healthy he IS Bako with more pop and should get the bulk of the starts with Javy getting the occasional start against the toughest righties (IMO). Bako would be useless at that point...barring injury of course.

pedro
04-05-2008, 06:34 PM
I'd rather have Janish up here to be the backup SS than Castro.

I wouldn't although I don't want Castro to EVER play.

As long as there is the smallest smidgen of hope that Janish can still learn how to hit even as much as Adam Everett I'd rather he play every day in AAA.

As for Hopper and Freel being redundant, yeah I'd rather the 5th OF be a corner guy with a little more pop but that's not what they have right now.

Highlifeman21
04-05-2008, 06:54 PM
And that is when you get rid of the redundancy issue that is Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper.

I would hope that Wayne or Walt are actively shopping both of them, trying to find the best deal.

Once Gonzo and Ross come back, one of the two of them has to go, there's no other logical explanation.

Kc61
04-05-2008, 07:22 PM
I would hope that Wayne or Walt are actively shopping both of them, trying to find the best deal.

Once Gonzo and Ross come back, one of the two of them has to go, there's no other logical explanation.

If you mean Freel or Hopper should go, I don't think that's likely.

At full strength the Reds have Gonzo and Ross in the lineup.

The possible bench players at that point are --

Keppinger, Freel, Hopper, Castro, Bako, Hatteberg, Valentin. Seven guys for five spots.

Castro will be out with both Kepp and Gonzo on the roster. That leaves 6 guys for 5 spots.

If the Red dump Freel or Hopper, the bench will be --

Bako, Valentin, Hatteberg, Keppinger and either Freel or Hopper.

I don't think this works. With a five man bench you can't have Bako, Valentin and Hatteberg all on that bench. Those three players only cover catcher and first base. It leaves you with only two players to cover all the other positions.

A five man bench leads to tough choices. But you can't spend three of those five slots on catchers and first basemen.

So once Ross is ready, I would assume that Bako, Valentin or Hatte will go. Look for a sudden injury.

pedro
04-05-2008, 07:24 PM
If you mean Freel or Hopper should go, I don't think that's likely.

At full strength the Reds have Gonzo and Ross in the lineup.

The possible bench players at that point are --

Keppinger, Freel, Hopper, Castro, Bako, Hatteberg, Valentin. Seven guys for five spots.

Castro will be out with both Kepp and Gonzo on the roster. That leaves 6 guys for 5 spots.

If the Red dump Freel or Hopper, the bench will be --

Bako, Valentin, Hatteberg, Keppinger and either Freel or Hopper.

I don't think this works. With a five man bench you can't have Bako, Valentin and Hatteberg all on that bench. Those three players only cover catcher and first base. It leaves you with only two players to cover all the other positions.

A five man bench leads to tough choices. But you can't spend three of those five slots on catchers and first basemen.

So once Ross is ready, I would assume that Bako, Valentin or Hatte will go. Look for a sudden injury.

You are absolutely correct.

There is no way on earth the Reds don't carry 5 OF's.

At this point Castro and Valentin are the "bubble boys"

Kc61
04-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Now, if the Reds would re-structure the bench, then I would like to see the following --

Keppinger -- infield
Hopper -- outfield
Bako -- catcher
Righty first baseman with power who can play corner outfield
Lefty pinch hitter who can play multiple positions if needed

Freel, Hatte and Valentin are good players but they don't really fit the last two categories.

mth123
04-05-2008, 07:48 PM
Perfect bench for Reds would be --

Keppinger -- infield
Hopper -- outfield
Bako -- catcher
Righty first baseman with power who can play corner outfield
Lefty pinch hitter who can play multiple positions in a pinch

Yep. Wes Helms could be the Righty 1B who may be able to play corner. I'd revisit the Stanton talks with them. Seeing the Philly bullpen makes me feel better about the Reds pen.

An available option for the lefty who plays multiple positions is Felo. Freel for Felo wouldn't be a huge money increase (WASH could have Castro to back-up at SS too) and Felo, as a guy who hits better from the LH side, is a logical guy to play behind Phillips, Kepp, Gonzo and EdE. Helms ability to play 3B would make the team pretty versatile. The team doesn't need as many "true" OF reserves because any DL stint will likely lead to Bruce getting called up and playing every day. Getting these ingredients that fit is more important in the Reds' situation.

Kc61
04-05-2008, 07:59 PM
Yep. Wes Helms could be the Righty 1B who may be able to play corner. I'd revisit the Stanton talks with them. Seeing the Philly bullpen makes me feel better about the Reds pen.

An available option for the lefty who plays multiple positions is Felo. Freel for Felo wouldn't be a huge money increase (WASH could have Castro to back-up at SS too) and Felo, as a guy who hits better from the LH side, is a logical guy to play behind Phillips, Kepp, Gonzo and EdE. Helms ability to play 3B would make the team pretty versatile. The team doesn't need as many "true" OF reserves because any DL stint will likely lead to Bruce getting called up and playing every day. Getting these ingredients that fit is more important in the Reds' situation.

Reds could add Majewski in the Felo trade.

Helms is really a first/third guy, this would leave Reds a little short in the outfield -- but it might work ok because, in a pinch, Kepp could play some corner outfield. This would certainly be a more versatile bench.