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BCubb2003
04-05-2008, 03:59 PM
This is probably too fine a point for a basic sports cliche, but I always had the impression that a walk-off homer was called that because the other team walked off the field since there was nothing else they could do. As much as I like the idea of a walk-off dribbler to short, it's really more of a run-around-try-to-get-the-ball-end-up-throwing-to-the-wrong-base kind of a play, isn't it?

Does a walk-off by definition require a homer?

savafan
04-05-2008, 04:03 PM
I hate the term "walk-off"

Screwball
04-05-2008, 04:03 PM
I hate the term "walk-off"

Why?

savafan
04-05-2008, 04:08 PM
Why?

I think it was coined several years back by ESPN announcers, and it never sat well with me. After that, announcers from everywhere ran with it. I think it was originally said to imply that the winning team walks off with the victory, an image I never liked.

Just a personal thing for me.

The Baumer
04-05-2008, 04:29 PM
I believe it is the losing team that "walks off" the field defeated. Meanwhile, the winning team circles around home plate giving high fives.

savafan
04-05-2008, 04:30 PM
I believe it is the losing team that "walks off" the field defeated. Meanwhile, the winning team circles around home plate giving high fives.

I hate the term walk-off so much that if I was playing on the losing team, I'd sit down at my position and refuse to move until the stadium emptied.

BCubb2003
04-05-2008, 04:41 PM
I believe it is the losing team that "walks off" the field defeated. Meanwhile, the winning team circles around home plate giving high fives.

So is any play that ends the game in the middle of an inning a walk-off? Or is it only for a home run that leaves the other team with nothing to do but walk off?

"Meanwhile, the Savafan Palookas crawled off the field with their tails between their legs."

savafan
04-05-2008, 04:43 PM
"Meanwhile, the Savafan Palookas crawled off the field with their tails between their legs."

I would rather go back to the little league example of shaking hands with the other team after the game as opposed to walking off. It happens in football, why not baseball? Which is the more gentlemen's game anyway?

The Baumer
04-05-2008, 04:47 PM
I think the definition of a "walk off" play has been broadened beyond it's original, literal definition. Now, like you've said, it basically means any play that ends the game in the middle of an inning.

BCubb2003
04-05-2008, 04:49 PM
I would rather go back to the little league example of shaking hands with the other team after the game as opposed to walking off. It happens in football, why not baseball? Which is the more gentlemen's game anyway?

Works for me. I wonder if Chip R ever engages in ungentlemanly conduct?

"And a brawl erupted when Roger Clemens refused to shake hands with Larry Bowa ..."

Chip R
04-05-2008, 04:51 PM
Works for me. I wonder if Chip R ever engages in ungentlemanly conduct?



Never!

Yachtzee
04-05-2008, 05:03 PM
Never!

You've never engaged in fisticuffs with those moustachioed ruffians who have tainted the game with professionalism? ;)

Chip R
04-05-2008, 05:10 PM
You've never engaged in fisticuffs with those moustachioed ruffians who have tainted the game with professionalism? ;)


Not at all.

savafan
04-05-2008, 05:19 PM
Chip is a gentleman and a scholar. At the very least he is a gentleman. :)

Besides Ravenlord, no one else on Redszone has ever given me a finer cigar. ;)

blumj
04-05-2008, 05:36 PM
I'd always heard that Eckersley was the first to call it a walk-off.

Chip R
04-05-2008, 05:39 PM
I'd always heard that Eckersley was the first to call it a walk-off.


I've heard that too.

IslandRed
04-05-2008, 06:22 PM
That wouldn't surprise me, really; the term could have come to Eck's mind because of the way TV would always show the pitcher who gave up the homer walking off the field with his head down.

westofyou
04-05-2008, 06:59 PM
In the 20's a walk off HR with a man on base that represented the winning run would be scored as a "single" as the game would be officially over when the winning run was scored.

Ruth lost a few that way.

George Anderson
04-05-2008, 09:00 PM
In Japan, a walk-off home run is known as a sayonara home run.

RedsBaron
04-05-2008, 09:12 PM
I'd always heard that Eckersley was the first to call it a walk-off.

Did Eck coin the term after Kirk Gibson took him deep in the '88 World Series? ;)

blumj
04-05-2008, 09:48 PM
Did Eck coin the term after Kirk Gibson took him deep in the '88 World Series? ;)

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. He does pre- and post-game analysis part-time for the Red Sox on NESN, and last year he called a replay of a HR, "Kirk Gibson, see ya later", and the host just completely lost it. But he has such a unique way about him that he manages to be brutally honest without ever seeming the least bit mean-spirited. I think it's a shame he doesn't do anything nationally.

Highlifeman21
04-06-2008, 08:48 PM
In the 20's a walk off HR with a man on base that represented the winning run would be scored as a "single" as the game would be officially over when the winning run was scored.

Ruth lost a few that way.

Don't they still score it that way?

RedFanAlways1966
04-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Don't they still score it that way?

No. Example...

October 17, 2004. David Ortiz hits a twelfth inning 2-run home run off Paul Quantrill in game 4 of the ALCS. Final score: Red Sox 6, Yankees 4.

BCubb2003
04-06-2008, 10:03 PM
A home run's a home run in that situation, but you'd never get a double or triple, right?

RedFanAlways1966
04-06-2008, 10:15 PM
A home run's a home run in that situation, but you'd never get a double or triple, right?

Yes, that is usually true. Unless the winning run is on 1st base and a ball is hit into the gap. The runner scores from 1st to win the game. If the batter runs to 2nd base and gets there before the runner crosses home safely, then the official scorer should rule it a double.

PuffyPig
04-06-2008, 10:31 PM
Yes, that is usually true. Unless the winning run is on 1st base and a ball is hit into the gap. The runner scores from 1st to win the game. If the batter runs to 2nd base and gets there before the runner crosses home safely, then the official scorer should rule it a double.

If the runner runs to third, they will give him a triple.

PuffyPig
04-06-2008, 10:31 PM
Don't they still score it that way?

Have you ever seen a game ending home run ruled anything other than a HR?

RedFanAlways1966
04-06-2008, 10:34 PM
If the runner runs to third, they will give him a triple.

As long as he touches third before the winning run touches the plate. Once the winning run touches the plate the game is over. Technically the last base touched by the hitter when the plate is contacted by the runner on base is the last base accounted b/c the game is officially over. Of course the batter must touch first base if there are two outs (ask Fred Merkle!).

sonny
04-06-2008, 10:46 PM
I'd always heard that Eckersley was the first to call it a walk-off.

I was just about to say that.

BCubb2003
04-06-2008, 10:55 PM
Haven't there been some situations where the winning run is on third, the batter hits a shot over the outfielder's head or in the gap and the outfielder just turns to watch it bounce to the wall because there's no doubt it's going to score the run? Those are scored as singles. I suppose if the batter collapsed before reaching first it would be embarrassing for the fielder.

By the way, what would happen if the batter was severely injured and couldn't make it to first, would he be put out without regard to his condition?

George Anderson
04-06-2008, 11:04 PM
By the way, what would happen if the batter was severely injured and couldn't make it to first, would he be put out without regard to his condition?

Yes

Chip R
04-06-2008, 11:35 PM
Have you ever seen a game ending home run ruled anything other than a HR?


I think back in 2000, the Mets had a playoff game end like that and the batter passed the runner on first so he was only given credit for a single.

reds44
04-06-2008, 11:43 PM
Robin Ventura hit a walk off grand slam with the Mets a few years back which ended up being a walk off single because he was mobbed before he could get home.

KoryMac5
04-06-2008, 11:43 PM
From the wonderful world of Wiki:


The first known usage of the word in print appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle on April 21, 1988, Section D, Page 1. Chronicle writer Lowell Cohn wrote an article headlined "What the Eck?" about Oakland reliever Dennis Eckersley's unusual way of speaking: "For a translation, I go in search of Eckersley. I also want to know why he calls short home runs 'street pieces,' and home runs that come in the last at-bat of a game 'walkoff pieces'. . . ." Although the term originally was coined with a negative connotation, in reference to the pitcher (who must walk off the field with his head hung in shame), it has come to acquire a more celebratory connotation, for the batter who walks off with pride with the adulation of the home crowd). The term attained widespread use in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

RedFanAlways1966
04-07-2008, 07:06 AM
Robin Ventura hit a walk off grand slam with the Mets a few years back which ended up being a walk off single because he was mobbed before he could get home.

And baseball historians always remember this quirk about the greatest pitched game ever...

Harvey Haddix of the Pittsburgh Pirates will always be remembered for taking a perfect game into the 13th inning of a game against the Milwaukee Braves on May 26, 1959. Haddix retired 36 consecutive batters in 12 innings, but his Pittsburgh teammates didn't score, as Braves pitcher Lew Burdette was also pitching a shutout.

After a fielding error by Don Hoak ended the perfect game in the bottom of the 13th, the runner was advanced to second on a sacrifice bunt, which was followed by an intentional walk to Hank Aaron. Joe Adcock then hit a home run, ending the no hitter and the game. However, in the confusion, Aaron left the basepaths and was passed by Adcock for the second out. Eventually the hit was changed from a home run to a double by a ruling from National League president Warren Giles; instead of three runs on a home run, only the first Braves run counted. But the game ended there, with the Pirates and Haddix losing 1-0.

OldRightHander
04-07-2008, 09:50 AM
Chip is a gentleman and a scholar. At the very least he is a gentleman. :)



He just needs to work on a nice set of whiskers to make that old timey uniform a bit more authentic.

OldRightHander
04-07-2008, 09:56 AM
In the 20's a walk off HR with a man on base that represented the winning run would be scored as a "single" as the game would be officially over when the winning run was scored.

Ruth lost a few that way.

That explains an argument I had with a fan at a game a few years ago. The Reds were tied in extras and had a couple runners on and someone hit one out to win the game. The guy then told me that they would only count the go ahead run and the hitter would get a single. I told him that I'm pretty sure they would count all three runs and the batter would get his homer. Neither of us was convinced of the other's position, but at the time his argument seemed a little odd and I wondered where he got it from. I also wondered why he felt compelled to bring that up when the Reds had just won a dramatic game. They had to come from two runs down in the ninth to send it into extras.

OldRightHander
04-07-2008, 10:03 AM
Anybody remember a particular Reds game I attended a few years ago that was won by a single in the bottom of the ninth but the hitter only got a fielder's choice out of it? I think there were runners on the corners and the hitter lined one into right field. The runner trotted home from third to win the game, but the runner who was on first just started celebrating that the game was won while in the meantime the defense returned the ball to second for the force out. Since the runner on third was kind of showboating his way home, the force at second occurred before the run scored, so the hitter got a fielder's choice instead of a hit, all because his teammate didn't just run it out to second.

westofyou
04-07-2008, 10:06 AM
Chronicle writer Lowell Cohn

Ughhh horrible baseball writer, horrible, horrible baseball writer