PDA

View Full Version : We're pretty good



Blitz Dorsey
04-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Good starting pitching staff.

Good lineup.

Pretty good bullpen.

What am I missing?

Oh yeah, defense. Well, other than that, we're pretty good.

Falls City Beer
04-06-2008, 03:03 PM
http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper689/stills/k4xbtv4h.jpg

Will M
04-06-2008, 03:10 PM
IF Cueto and Volquez pitch all season the way they have so far the Reds will have a very nice season. There are some question marks ( catching, defense, middle relief ) but it is time for Reds fans to be excited.

Blitz Dorsey
04-06-2008, 03:12 PM
http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper689/stills/k4xbtv4h.jpg

You're way too into crotch shots and underestimating Johnny Cueto for my tastes.

guttle11
04-06-2008, 03:35 PM
That picture is not a photoshop. He really did that.

Falls City Beer
04-06-2008, 03:38 PM
That picture is not a photoshop. He really did that.

He did it if he wanted to do it!

Blitz Dorsey
04-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Good thing I took the over on 78.5 wins.

WMR
04-06-2008, 05:04 PM
"Prettay, prettay, prettay, prettay good."

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/aei/wp-content/photos/Larry_David_photo.jpg

Screwball
04-06-2008, 05:33 PM
I'll tell you what, with this team's starting pitching they have a legitimate shot at winning four out of every five games they play. Of course, we all know they won't win at an .800 clip, but after getting a first look at the rotation I wish I had been more optimisitic in my win-loss prediction. Mid to upper 80s feels more right now.

RedEye
04-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I think they have a good shot at finishing above .500. That's all I'll predict right now.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-06-2008, 05:43 PM
I think they have a good shot at finishing above .500. That's all I'll predict right now.

I know how you feel. I'm incredibly excited after watching Cueto and Volquez pitch right now, but I'm trying to stay grounded as I know they're both rookies and are going to struggle at times. But right now, this is the most fun I've had during an opening week in a while. I think if they stay even remotely consistent though, that we can easily have the best rotation in the Central, especially if Fogg gets moved out for Belisle

Matt700wlw
04-06-2008, 05:48 PM
The Reds have studly YOUNG pitching.

I haven't said that in years. I may have never said it before.

cumberlandreds
04-06-2008, 06:08 PM
The Reds have studly YOUNG pitching.

I haven't said that in years. I may have never said it before.

Matt,I have been a Reds fan since 1971 and I don't think I have ever said that. But I can now. With Ceuto and Volquez and some other young arms around it's one of the more optimitic times regarding pitching I can remember.

WVRedsFan
04-06-2008, 06:18 PM
I feel pretty good about the team, too, but I'll stifle it for now. I'm very impressed with the two kids, but I have been concerned about Arroyo and the 5th starting spot (whoever that may be), and the bullpen, though better, is nowhere near lights out.

The flaw in this whole feel good scenario is the offense. There will be nights (especially when the league figures out Edinson and Johnny) when we're going to need 7 runs to win. So far, only Kepp and maybe Phillips have shown they are in the zone. Maybe Griffey in the last two games, but we have to have production from Dunn, Encarnacion and first base to win consistantly. And for all the defense he provides, Corey Patterson will be an albatross before the season is over. Then there's Dusty pulling out players at will even when we're behind...

But enough worries for now. This is a better team than we've seen here in the last 7 years. I said 86 wins and I'll stick by it. And won't that be fun come October??

edabbs44
04-06-2008, 06:19 PM
I feel better about this team than I have in years.

I feel ridiculously excited about 2-3 years from now.

OnBaseMachine
04-06-2008, 06:21 PM
This is the most excited I've been about the Reds organization since, well, ever since I was old enough to understand what baseball was. I was born in 1987 and this is the most talent I can ever remember the Reds having in my lifetime. The 1999 Reds were talented - they had some nice young hitters but severely lacked young starting pitching. This current squad has plenty of young talent on both offensively and on the pitching side. The two Dominican kids, Cueto and Volquez, teamed with Harang and Arroyo are going to give us a great rotation for a long time. Throw in Homer Bailey and Matt Maloney and it could only get better. On offense Dunn, EdE, Keppinger, Phillips, and Votto are all under 28 years old or younger. Throw in the best prospect in baseball in Jay Bruce and the core is there for a long time. We also have some key bullpen arms ready to break into the majors with Josh Roenicke, Bill Bray, Carlos Fisher, and Pedro Viola. This is a very exciting time in Cincinnati.

WMR
04-06-2008, 06:34 PM
I feel pretty good about the team, too, but I'll stifle it for now. I'm very impressed with the two kids, but I have been concerned about Arroyo and the 5th starting spot (whoever that may be), and the bullpen, though better, is nowhere near lights out.

The flaw in this whole feel good scenario is the offense. There will be nights (especially when the league figures out Edinson and Johnny) when we're going to need 7 runs to win. So far, only Kepp and maybe Phillips have shown they are in the zone. Maybe Griffey in the last two games, but we have to have production from Dunn, Encarnacion and first base to win consistantly. And for all the defense he provides, Corey Patterson will be an albatross before the season is over. Then there's Dusty pulling out players at will even when we're behind...

But enough worries for now. This is a better team than we've seen here in the last 7 years. I said 86 wins and I'll stick by it. And won't that be fun come October??

If Edinson and Cueto are hitting their spots, there won't be any "figuring them out." You can know what they're going to throw and it won't make a bit of difference.

WVRedsFan
04-06-2008, 06:34 PM
I feel better about this team than I have in years.

I feel ridiculously excited about 2-3 years from now.

Same here. Another year or so of tweaking and we'll really be pumping our fists.

BCubb2003
04-06-2008, 07:23 PM
We should be careful or we'll end up like Braves fans.

Always Red
04-06-2008, 07:52 PM
I mostly like what I see so far, but it is way too early.

GAC
04-06-2008, 08:30 PM
I was born in 1987 and this is the most talent I can ever remember the Reds having in my lifetime

I got jeans older then you! :cool:

If this youg pitching comes through, then we'll be competitive for the division crown. The bench is obviously stronger, and that is a huge plus.

Not so sure about the catching position though. And I'm gonna keep an eye on thiws bullpen. Didn't the BP come out of the gate on fire last year too? ;)

redsmetz
04-06-2008, 09:07 PM
Wow - my hats are off to so many of you. I understand fully, it's early and our exciting is best tempered, but I appreciate many of you who have been skeptical coming into the season expressing your appreciation for the club in this first week. I said a week or two ago, that, optimist that I am, that quite a lot will have to go right to be successful this season, but I do very much like the nucleus of this team and the talent that is on the horizon. I hope it plays out well - it will be a lot of fun.

Cyclone792
04-06-2008, 09:13 PM
Wow - my hats are off to so many of you. I understand fully, it's early and our exciting is best tempered, but I appreciate many of you who have been skeptical coming into the season expressing your appreciation for the club in this first week. I said a week or two ago, that, optimist that I am, that quite a lot will have to go right to be successful this season, but I do very much like the nucleus of this team and the talent that is on the horizon. I hope it plays out well - it will be a lot of fun.

This is the best brand of Reds baseball I've seen since 1999-2000. This is also the most talented team, I believe, since the 1999-2000 teams. I picked them for 83 wins this season, and in in the back of my mind I was hoping it was a conservative estimate.

A whole bunch of things can happen in the next 156 games, but for the first time in nearly a decade there's some legitimate and realistic excitement about some positive things happening in those next 156 games.

Highlifeman21
04-06-2008, 09:27 PM
http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper689/stills/k4xbtv4h.jpg

I wouldn't have pegged you as a Hulkamaniac.

Falls City Beer
04-06-2008, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't have pegged you as a Hulkamaniac.

It's the last time I watched wrestling in earnest--as an undergraduate. You'd have to be a cretin not to like the Hulkster.

OldRightHander
04-06-2008, 09:42 PM
I was born in 1987 and this is the most talent I can ever remember the Reds having in my lifetime.

Thanks a lot there. I'm with GAC. I have clothes older than you as well, but nothing that still fits.

IslandRed
04-06-2008, 10:12 PM
I think we can't help but be a little optimistic. Like probably the majority of this board, I'd heard all about Johnny Cueto and I'd heard all about Edinson Volquez, but... let's be honest, it was hard to fully buy into the hype, given the history of young Reds pitchers in the last 25, 30 years. And then to finally see them pitch, and holy smokes they ARE that good... well, it allows the mind to wander places it has resisted wandering for many years, even though realistically I know we're not there yet.

savafan
04-06-2008, 10:15 PM
I get excited about the Reds every year, but I'm usually disappointed right out of the gate. So far, no disappointment.

I haven't been this excited though since 1990

SunDeck
04-06-2008, 10:32 PM
I am optimistic about the Reds chances at being over .500 this year. That may sound a little reserved, but I think it is realistic to still put them in that neighborhood- a team that is building a solid foundation but that also has some issues to deal with, the main one in my opinion being at two key positions up the middle, catcher and CF. Three if you count SS, but I'm all right with Gonzo for a little while, even though I still want to see them develop a long term solution.

Notice, I have not said pitching and that is possibly the most significant difference between today and the last decade- the Reds have a very bright pitching future.

Anyway, my feeling over the last decade has been that the Reds were just a mess- no pitching prospects in the pipe, seemingly no one who knew how to draft or develop talent and little commitment from the ownership to putting a winning program together. But now that Castellini is in charge, and with both Krivsky and Jocketty there to make the baseball decisions, I think this club is headed in the right direction. It's been a long time since I felt it would be safe to say that.

It's certainly looking good right now, and even if the DD's falter a little, I still think this club is in pretty good shape.

deltachi8
04-06-2008, 11:17 PM
I was born in 1987 and this is the most talent I can ever remember the Reds having in my lifetime.

Boy that 87 team was rough....


It's kinda fun to be optimistic for a change though...hopefully that same feeling is still around in July....or even next week.

REDREAD
04-06-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm still staying with my 80 win estimate.
I am glad they are off to a great start though.
But I think this team will hit a couple rough patches along the road.
The bullpen in particular, will have it's ups and downs, even though it's started off great.
I think there will be periods when this HR based offense will vanish as well.

cincrazy
04-06-2008, 11:26 PM
I'm still staying with my 80 win estimate.
I am glad they are off to a great start though.
But I think this team will hit a couple rough patches along the road.
The bullpen in particular, will have it's ups and downs, even though it's started off great.
I think there will be periods when this HR based offense will vanish as well.

I think the bullpen will be better at the end of the year than it is now. If guys like Mercker or Lincoln run out of gas, we can turn to Roenicke and Bray. I'm concerned about the offense also, but we can't ignore the fact that Jay Bruce could possibly have a Ryan Braun-like impact on this offense this year. I don't think it's likely, but it can't be discounted.

Whether we go to the playoffs this year or not, this franchise is officially no longer a joke.

redsmetz
04-06-2008, 11:30 PM
I think the bullpen will be better at the end of the year than it is now. If guys like Mercker or Lincoln run out of gas, we can turn to Roenicke and Bray. I'm concerned about the offense also, but we can't ignore the fact that Jay Bruce could possibly have a Ryan Braun-like impact on this offense this year. I don't think it's likely, but it can't be discounted.

Whether we go to the playoffs this year or not, this franchise is officially no longer a joke.

I like what you're saying here. Viz. Mercker and Lincoln, you're saying "if", not "when" and it speaks to the developing depth we'll have available in the minors to fill those gaps as they happen (and they will happen at some time or another throughout the grueling season).

Caveat Emperor
04-06-2008, 11:31 PM
A whole bunch of things can happen in the next 156 games, but for the first time in nearly a decade there's some legitimate and realistic excitement about some positive things happening in those next 156 games.

So far, a lot of things are going right.

Harang & Arroyo are Harang & Arroyo.

Cueto & Volquez both look like they can be the real deal. I'll reserve full judgment until the league gets a chance to see them and/or tapes start circulating for hitters to look for tendencies.

Jared Burton looks like he's actually gotten BETTER since last year. He's coming into games throwing strikes and

Mike Lincoln and Kent Merker have both had good outings -- which is outstanding considering neither one threw a baseball last season (or last 4 seasons, in Lincoln's case).

Keppinger continues to put up great numbers with the stick despite being a total dumpster-dive last season.

In the immortal words of Lou Brown "It's startin' to come together..."

deltachi8
04-06-2008, 11:38 PM
Boy that 87 team was rough....


It's kinda fun to be optimistic for a change though...hopefully that same feeling is still around in July....or even next week.

My bad, the 87 team wasn't awful, I was thinking of the 89 team

redsrule2500
04-07-2008, 02:38 AM
This is the most excited I've been about the Reds organization since, well, ever since I was old enough to understand what baseball was. I was born in 1987 and this is the most talent I can ever remember the Reds having in my lifetime. The 1999 Reds were talented - they had some nice young hitters but severely lacked young starting pitching. This current squad has plenty of young talent on both offensively and on the pitching side. The two Dominican kids, Cueto and Volquez, teamed with Harang and Arroyo are going to give us a great rotation for a long time. Throw in Homer Bailey and Matt Maloney and it could only get better. On offense Dunn, EdE, Keppinger, Phillips, and Votto are all under 28 years old or younger. Throw in the best prospect in baseball in Jay Bruce and the core is there for a long time. We also have some key bullpen arms ready to break into the majors with Josh Roenicke, Bill Bray, Carlos Fisher, and Pedro Viola. This is a very exciting time in Cincinnati.

man..I echo your exact thoughts. Right down to the year of birth!

Jpup
04-07-2008, 02:47 AM
The Reds looked great, for the most part, last week. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't make the playoffs. Those worried about the offense should remember that the bats will heat up as the weather does. Don't worry about Adam Dunn, he'll get his 40, 100, & 100. I think Votto will be fine. He appears to be pressing some. Health is the big question mark. If they are healthy, they are the best team in the Central.

TRF
04-07-2008, 05:39 PM
It's the last time I watched wrestling in earnest--as an undergraduate. You'd have to be a cretin not to like the Hulkster.

Pheh. he couldn't carry Flair's jock.


http://christiansbehaving.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/ricflair.jpg
woooooooooooo!

bucksfan2
04-07-2008, 05:57 PM
The Reds looked great, for the most part, last week. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't make the playoffs. Those worried about the offense should remember that the bats will heat up as the weather does. Don't worry about Adam Dunn, he'll get his 40, 100, & 100. I think Votto will be fine. He appears to be pressing some. Health is the big question mark. If they are healthy, they are the best team in the Central.

I don't know about playoffs. I normally don't think you can take too much from one game, but, the lineup run out there today was pathetic. The Phillies kept their every day lineup on a getaway game while the reds inserted their scrubs. Anytime Castro starts a game the reds are behind the 8 ball. I don't care if Hamels is a tough lefty a guy like Votto or Hatty stands a better chance of getting a hit than Castro.

RedEye
04-07-2008, 06:03 PM
Cueto & Volquez both look like they can be the real deal. I'll reserve full judgment until the league gets a chance to see them and/or tapes start circulating for hitters to look for tendencies.


This is a really good point. I agree that they look like they both have the stuff to be successful, but the real measure of their impact will be whether they can adjust again once the hitters adjust to them.

Anyone got an idea how long it takes for the league to "understand" a new pitcher? I suppose Danny Jackson got a 23-win season out before anyone really figured him out... right?

Aronchis
04-07-2008, 06:08 PM
Outside Burton(and of course Cordero) the Reds bullpen didn't look that great. Luck and its early.

Coffey still looks poor and Weathers is a ticking timebomb as are the lefties.

Beware of early season gyrations.

RedlegJake
04-07-2008, 06:29 PM
Outside Burton(and of course Cordero) the Reds bullpen didn't look that great. Luck and its early.

Coffey still looks poor and Weathers is a ticking timebomb as are the lefties.

Beware of early season gyrations.

Lincoln and Mercker haven't been at all bad. Weathers will likely be himself, getting it done but never making it look easy. Burton and Cordero look great. Affeldt has been effective. The alternative to your view is that this might become a pretty good bullpen -don't be fooled by some of the early season problems. Seriously, the bullpen can still go either way but I don't have a single doubt that it's going to be a lot better than last year's version.

membengal
04-07-2008, 06:37 PM
This is a really good point. I agree that they look like they both have the stuff to be successful, but the real measure of their impact will be whether they can adjust again once the hitters adjust to them.

Anyone got an idea how long it takes for the league to "understand" a new pitcher? I suppose Danny Jackson got a 23-win season out before anyone really figured him out... right?

In Philly's case, they had already seen him twice for extended appearances this spring, and sure didn't have a much firmer grasp on his stuff this time around. For what it's worth.

cincrazy
04-07-2008, 06:59 PM
Outside Burton(and of course Cordero) the Reds bullpen didn't look that great. Luck and its early.

Coffey still looks poor and Weathers is a ticking timebomb as are the lefties.

Beware of early season gyrations.

I've actually been impressed with Coffey. His first few outings were a little rough, but he's turned it around and he appears to be fine. Affeldt has been solid, and as I mentioned in a post above, even if guys like Mercker and Lincoln can't carry the load for a full season, we have reinforcements to turn to.

This is going to sound absolutely crazy, and these words have never come up out of my mouth, but: the pitching staff is the least of my concerns right now.

Never thought I'd say that :eek:

redsmetz
04-07-2008, 07:00 PM
This is going to sound absolutely crazy, and these words have never come up out of my mouth, but: the pitching staff is the least of my concerns right now.

Never thought I'd say that :eek:

You have become your name - you are CINCRAZY!

RedEye
04-07-2008, 07:03 PM
In Philly's case, they had already seen him twice for extended appearances this spring, and sure didn't have a much firmer grasp on his stuff this time around. For what it's worth.

That's true. Isn't there some prevailing theory, though, that the pitchers start out the season "ahead" of the hitters? I don't want to curb our enthusiasm about these guys, because I'm as enthused as anyone, but I just want to know at what point their contributions will be deemed legitimate enough to be considered reliable.

Another way of putting it would be: At what point do Cueto and Volquez's performances stop being simply a question of "small sample size" and more a question of repeatable dominance?

The Baumer
04-07-2008, 07:26 PM
Another way of putting it would be: At what point do Cueto and Volquez's performances stop being simply a question of "small sample size" and more a question of repeatable dominance?

At the end of the season when you're looking back at their 2008 stats.

Falls City Beer
04-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Nothing jumps right out at you about this team as being really bad. It's early yet, but that could be a hopeful sign.

WMR
04-07-2008, 07:51 PM
Nothing jumps right out at you about this team as being really bad. It's early yet, but that could be a hopeful sign.

Catching and corner outfield defense (with RF being especially poor compared on average to the rest of the majors).

RedEye
04-07-2008, 08:32 PM
At the end of the season when you're looking back at their 2008 stats.

I would think there would be an earlier point in the season where we could judge their staying power. Perhaps by the time they are facing the league the second time? I can't help remember Jack Armstrong's second half in 1990 every time I think about that sort of thing (boy, he didn't fool 'em the second time, did he?) Not that I think C and V will end up like him, but it's just really one of the only comparisons I have at this point.

PuffyPig
04-07-2008, 08:57 PM
I would think there would be an earlier point in the season where we could judge their staying power. Perhaps by the time they are facing the league the second time? I can't help remember Jack Armstrong's second half in 1990 every time I think about that sort of thing (boy, he didn't fool 'em the second time, did he?) Not that I think C and V will end up like him, but it's just really one of the only comparisons I have at this point.

I've always assumed that Armstrong had injury problems more than anything else.

Falls City Beer
04-07-2008, 08:59 PM
Catching and corner outfield defense (with RF being especially poor compared on average to the rest of the majors).

True. I meant overall, I guess.

RedEye
04-07-2008, 09:16 PM
I've always assumed that Armstrong had injury problems more than anything else.

Maybe a bad example.

Anyway, does anyone else have an idea about when we might be able to say, definitively, that these two pitchers are legit? At the all-star break? After the season? After two months? After a certain number of starts? After several years? Am I just crazy for asking this sort of question?

There has to be some sort of statistical or temporal wisdom we can use here, right?

bucksfan2
04-08-2008, 09:47 AM
Maybe a bad example.

Anyway, does anyone else have an idea about when we might be able to say, definitively, that these two pitchers are legit? At the all-star break? After the season? After two months? After a certain number of starts? After several years? Am I just crazy for asking this sort of question?

There has to be some sort of statistical or temporal wisdom we can use here, right?

When they both are voted into the HOF.

I think they both showed a lot in their first start, enough to prove that they can be legit pitchers day in day out in the bigs. What Volquez did was pretty amazing. He faced the Phillies, one of the best, if not the best lineup in the NL, three times over the span of a few weeks. They both will have bumps in the road, I think Cueto may have a few more because he has never pitched at the big league level. However there will also be days with they are ouright filthy and dominant.

RedlegJake
04-08-2008, 09:55 AM
I tend to think Cueto will have fewer bad days because his command is pretty consistent but I might be wrong.

Az Red
04-08-2008, 01:27 PM
After 7 games, the Reds' pitching staff has 62 strikeouts, and leads the Major Leagues. ...

WebScorpion
04-08-2008, 02:10 PM
After 7 games, the Reds' pitching staff has 62 strikeouts, and leads the Major Leagues. ...
...and Cueto pitches tonight. :D

nate
04-08-2008, 03:17 PM
After 7 games, the Reds' pitching staff has 62 strikeouts, and leads the Major Leagues. ...

Beat me to it. I just noticed that one myself. Nice to lead a "good" pitching category for a change.

Steve4192
04-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Catching and corner outfield defense

I agree about the corner OF defense, but catching is no more of a problem for the Reds than it is for just about everyone else. There are only so many McCann's, Martin's, and Mauer's to go around. Everyone else has to make due with scraps. Outside of the half-dozen or so teams with a standout catcher, everyone else is trotting out a bunch of journeymen.

While the Reds brand of journeyman might be at the bottom of the barrel, it's a pretty shallow barrel. The difference between the guys in the middle and the guys at the bottom is just a matter of degrees of suck. Sure, I wish the Reds catching sucked less, but it's not like there is a huge performance differential between them and the rest of the scrubs donning the tools of ignorance around the majors.

klw
04-16-2008, 10:56 AM
bump up in attempt to generate good karma

Tommyjohn25
04-16-2008, 11:20 AM
bump up in attempt to generate good karma

Good call. I was afraid when i saw this bumped that the reason was going to be to turn this into another gloom and despair thread. Phew.....

WVRedsFan
04-16-2008, 11:23 AM
bump up in attempt to generate good karma

Good move.

All we need is a win to get the good juices flowing again. Maybe today is the day.

KronoRed
04-16-2008, 01:46 PM
bump up in attempt to generate good karma

Bump? I think this thread is the reason for the slump, banish it!! ;)