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Chip R
04-07-2008, 03:12 PM
The Masters is coming up on Thursday and this could be the first step on Tiger's way to the Grand Slam. Augusta National is his kind of track so I ask you good people out there if you could bet on either Tiger Woods winning this tournament - and getting odds - or anyone else in the field winning it, what's your choice?

WMR
04-07-2008, 03:20 PM
I'm going Tiger. I've never seen a golfer as dialed in--EVER!--as Tiger is right now.

I think he'll win by 8 strokes.

Ukosumu
04-07-2008, 03:22 PM
As they say you always take the field. Tiger looks unbeatable and he likes the course but these others guys are pretty good as well.

Joseph
04-07-2008, 04:10 PM
If I'm betting, I bet the field.

If I'm predicting, I'm predicting Tiger.

MWM
04-07-2008, 04:14 PM
If I'm betting, I bet the field.

If I'm predicting, I'm predicting Tiger.

What he said.

Highlifeman21
04-07-2008, 05:53 PM
Barring injury, I firmly believe Tiger will win.

GoReds33
04-07-2008, 06:53 PM
How can't you pick Tiger? He's the greatest golfer ever, and he always finds a way to win.

Redhook
04-08-2008, 07:26 AM
I'm going Tiger. I've never seen an athlete as dialed in--EVER!--as Tiger is right now.

A valid argument can be made that he's the best ever not only in golf, but any sport.

I believe he'll win the Masters too. By a lot.

texasdave
04-08-2008, 08:26 AM
My choice is Vijay Singh with Tiger and Phil close behind.

bucksfan2
04-08-2008, 08:32 AM
I take the field. Tiger is great but there are many other golfers who can play a great 4 days of golf. Tiger wins if he can avoid that mediocre round that seems to plague him during the majors. I think this is the year a young gun wins a major. Look for Luke Donald, Adam Scott, or a guy like Charles Howell to win a major this year.

RFS62
04-08-2008, 08:52 AM
How can you possibly bet against Tiger in a major?

SunDeck
04-08-2008, 09:51 AM
How can you possibly bet against Tiger in a major?

Odds, my friend, odds.

MWM
04-08-2008, 09:59 AM
Odds, my friend, odds.

Yep, Tiger will easily have twice the odds of winning than any other player. But even as great as he's been, he still doesn't win about 70% of the tournaments he's entered as a pro. You ALWAYS take the field.

texasdave
04-08-2008, 10:00 AM
How can you possibly bet against Tiger in a major?

Tiger won his first Masters in 1997. If we use that as a starting point he has entered 44 majors and won 13 of them. (~30%) If we fast forward to the year 2000, when Tiger was so dominant, he has won 11 of 32 majors. (~35%)

If we simply look at the Masters he has won 4 of 11 since 1997. (~36%) And he has donned the Green Jacket 3 of 8 times since 2000. (~38%).

If we look at just the past three seasons Tiger has done better 5 of 12. (~42%) Better, but still not 50%.

If you are a betting man you take the field. The numbers back that up.

I don't recall Tiger missing a major.

I am in no way belittling or dismissing Tiger's accomplishments. On the PGA he is without question the best player out there.

RFS62
04-08-2008, 10:25 AM
Odds, my friend, odds.


Yep, Tiger will easily have twice the odds of winning than any other player. But even as great as he's been, he still doesn't win about 70% of the tournaments he's entered as a pro. You ALWAYS take the field.




Sorry, I missed that you were talking about against the field. You should put something in the title that asks a question, and stuff!!!! Oh, wait....

Chip R
04-08-2008, 10:36 AM
Sorry, I missed that you were talking about against the field. You should put something in the title that asks a question, and stuff!!!! Oh, wait....


Senility. It's not just for breakfast anymore.

Chip R
04-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I got this today in my e-mail. Looks very cool.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4550060&CMP=EMC-MQ-OM&ATT=120-70-080409final&m=

Highlifeman21
04-09-2008, 04:49 PM
I got this today in my e-mail. Looks very cool.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4550060&CMP=EMC-MQ-OM&ATT=120-70-080409final&m=

That's like a special golf porn channel. All the Masters you could ever want, and more.

Chip R
04-09-2008, 04:58 PM
That's like a special golf porn channel. All the Masters you could ever want, and more.


"Oh, Tiger, you're lean, mean, and I bet you're not too far in between are ya."


http://www.putting-greens.com/pics/billm.jpg

Redhook
04-09-2008, 07:46 PM
It's Masters Eve and I'm excited. I can't wait to watch this tournament. I love everything about it.

Highlifeman21
04-09-2008, 08:08 PM
It's Masters Eve and I'm excited. I can't wait to watch this tournament. I love everything about it.

Are your azaleas blooming?

MWM
04-09-2008, 08:49 PM
Easily my most favorite golf event to watch each year.

improbus
04-09-2008, 09:19 PM
The Masters is like Kryptonite for middle to upper class white people. It is pretentious, stuffy, horribly elitist, and we can't get enough of it.

Also:
Masters = Jim Nantz = Muting the TV

Razor Shines
04-10-2008, 01:00 AM
The Masters is like Kryptonite for middle to upper class white people. It is pretentious, stuffy, horribly elitist, and we can't get enough of it.

Also:
Masters = Jim Nantz = Muting the TV

I'm not really following the Kryptonite comparison. For that analysis to be true wouldn't it mean that Superman "couldn't get enough of Kryptonite"?

Either way I like the Masters. I guess it's elitist because all of the best golfers are there. I like that though.

Screwball
04-10-2008, 01:07 AM
I'm not really following the Kryptonite comparison. For that analysis to be true wouldn't it mean that Superman "couldn't get enough of Kryptonite"?

Either way I like the Masters. I guess it's elitist because all of the best golfers are there. I like that though.

Yeah I didn't really understand the kryptonite analogy either, but as for elitist I think he was referring to Augusta National's membership policy.

Oh, and in 2008 I'm taking Tiger over the field in every event. He's that much better than everybody else right now.

Razor Shines
04-10-2008, 01:18 AM
Yeah I didn't really understand the kryptonite analogy either, but as for elitist I think he was referring to Augusta National's membership policy.


Yeah I know, but he's kinda making it out as if their "elitist" membership policy is why we are drawn to watch the Masters. I'm pretty sure I don't say "Oh, I've got to watch the Masters. Augusta National doesn't have any women members!"

Highlifeman21
04-10-2008, 09:08 AM
As a Private club, Augusta National can have whomever they damn well please as membership.

Augusta National being elitist has no bearing on my enjoyment of their tournament annually.

Cyclone792
04-10-2008, 09:16 AM
This is easily my favorite golf tourney of the year.

I'll go with what Joseph went with earlier: if I'm betting, I take the field. If I'm predicting, I take Tiger.

Highlifeman21
04-10-2008, 11:21 AM
I think he has zero chance of winning, and probably even cracking the Top 5, but I'm pulling for Brett Wetterich to make the Top 10 by the end of the weekend to make sure we see him in plenty of Masters to come.

Dude's got the game, as long as he stays sober.

bucksfan2
04-10-2008, 11:41 AM
I think he has zero chance of winning, and probably even cracking the Top 5, but I'm pulling for Brett Wetterich to make the Top 10 by the end of the weekend to make sure we see him in plenty of Masters to come.

Dude's got the game, as long as he stays sober.

I will root for Wetterich because he is a local guy but he may be one of the dumbest players on tour. I remember hearing an interview with him after he had the lead in day two of the masters and blew up trying to hit a miracle shot. He was asked if he would play that same way again and said something to the extent of "Yes thats how I play the game." You don't win majors playing that way. You win majors by limiting the damage when you get into trouble.

Chip R
04-10-2008, 11:42 AM
I will root for Wetterich because he is a local guy but he may be one of the dumbest players on tour. I remember hearing an interview with him after he had the lead in day two of the masters and blew up trying to hit a miracle shot. He was asked if he would play that same way again and said something to the extent of "Yes thats how I play the game." You don't win majors playing that way. You win majors by limiting the damage when you get into trouble.

:lol: Tin Cup

BTW, ESPN's website is showing Amen Corner coverage now.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 11:43 AM
I will root for Wetterich because he is a local guy but he may be one of the dumbest players on tour. I remember hearing an interview with him after he had the lead in day two of the masters and blew up trying to hit a miracle shot. He was asked if he would play that same way again and said something to the extent of "Yes thats how I play the game." You don't win majors playing that way. You win majors by limiting the damage when you get into trouble.

Phil says hello.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 11:45 AM
BTW, ESPN's website is showing Amen Corner coverage now.

That's it- I'm pretty much done for the day...

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 11:58 AM
I think he has zero chance of winning, and probably even cracking the Top 5, but I'm pulling for Brett Wetterich to make the Top 10 by the end of the weekend to make sure we see him in plenty of Masters to come.

Dude's got the game, as long as he stays sober.

I had never heard that about him. It would be surprising since his brother was killed by a drunk driver.

Chip R
04-10-2008, 12:00 PM
That's it- I'm pretty much done for the day...


They are showing holes 15 & 16 starting in about an hour.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Always a treat to see the caddies decked out in their Tyvek wear.

http://www.tyvek-coverall.com/images/products/coveralls1.jpg

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 12:45 PM
Gary Player = Jack LaLanne

Chip R
04-10-2008, 12:48 PM
This video coverage was pretty good when it started but now it's getting choppy.

bucksfan2
04-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Phil says hello.

A slight difference with Phil. Phil is a much better overall player. And besides Phil's supid decision cost him an open and probably a year of mental issues with his game. Brett is probably in the second tier of pro golfers behind the likes of Tiger, Phil, VJ, Erine, etc. When you want to beat a better golfer you can't make mental mistakes, you can't play stupid.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 03:22 PM
You don't win majors playing that way. You win majors by limiting the damage when you get into trouble.

That's the part I was responding to.
Phil has three majors, two of which came at Augusta.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Unless your Phil Mickelson you don't win majors playing that way. You win majors by limiting the damage when you get into trouble.

Anyway, maybe this is the way to put it then. I'd agree with that...except for the occasional gigantic flame outs. :)

Highlifeman21
04-10-2008, 03:40 PM
I had never heard that about him. It would be surprising since his brother was killed by a drunk driver.

His brother Matt (IIRC) was killed by a drunk driver, and Brett has his brother's initials on his staff bag, and I believe the back of his tour hat.

I know for a fact Brett drank heavily while on the Nationwide Tour, and his drinking resulted in him missing cuts b/c he'd celebrate a great 1st round, only to be hungover or sometimes still drunk during round 2, and then miss the cut.

He's gotten better with his drinking, and I would assume his brother's unfortunate death would be a direct cause of that, but it's no secret that Brett is one of the bigger post-round partiers on Tour. He's not in Daly's class, but there was a time in his life when he wasn't far behind.

SunDeck
04-10-2008, 05:13 PM
His brother Matt (IIRC) was killed by a drunk driver, and Brett has his brother's initials on his staff bag, and I believe the back of his tour hat.

I know for a fact Brett drank heavily while on the Nationwide Tour, and his drinking resulted in him missing cuts b/c he'd celebrate a great 1st round, only to be hungover or sometimes still drunk during round 2, and then miss the cut.

He's gotten better with his drinking, and I would assume his brother's unfortunate death would be a direct cause of that, but it's no secret that Brett is one of the bigger post-round partiers on Tour. He's not in Daly's class, but there was a time in his life when he wasn't far behind.

Yes, Matt was killed by a drunk driver. Then there was another death in the family right after that, like his sister's mother in law, or maybe his mother in law. Can't remember exactly. He lived right down the street from me when we were kids; his sister is my age, but I only remember him as a little squirt who was a golf phenom.
Anyway, you can take the boy out of Delhi but you can't take the Delhi out of the boy, I guess- there was a quarter barrel in every garage refrigerator when we were kids.

dabvu2498
04-11-2008, 12:20 PM
There's a really neat Master's blog that I've been reading.


Tom Shaw, Vanderbilt's Head Men's Golf Coach, is caddying for Michael Thompson at the 2008 Masters. Thompson played for Shaw at Tulane before transferring to the University of Alabama prior to last season. He earned a spot in this week's event by finishing second at the 2007 U.S. Amateur. Shaw will be contributing exclusive content from Augusta to vucommodores.com all week.

http://vucommodores.cstv.com/sports/m-golf/spec-rel/041008aab.html

It's a pretty good read and from a different perspective. The Wednesday piece about the par 3 tournament and all the older guys who make the young guys feel welcome is really good stuff too.

MWM
04-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Looks like taking the field was a good bet. Guess there won't be any grand slam for Tiger this year.

Highlifeman21
04-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Looks like taking the field was a good bet. Guess there won't be any grand slam for Tiger this year.

36 holes left. A lot of golf to be played.

But you could be absolutely right. From what I've seen of Tiger, it seems like he's trying not to make bogeys, rather than playing his normal game.

Tentative Tiger won't win this Masters.

bucksfan2
04-12-2008, 08:47 AM
36 holes left. A lot of golf to be played.

But you could be absolutely right. From what I've seen of Tiger, it seems like he's trying not to make bogeys, rather than playing his normal game.

Tentative Tiger won't win this Masters.

The problem with Tiger is that he didn't play a bad first two days in a major. -1 heading into saturday isn't all that bad but there are so many people in between Tiger and the leader at -8 it will be a daunting task for him to come back.

SunDeck
04-12-2008, 09:03 AM
Mickelson is in a good spot right now, and I'd like it if Flesch made a little noise. Is the course soft? It seems like guys are being pretty aggressive.

I get a little tired of all the coverage (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GLF_MASTERS?SITE=OHCIN&SECTION=AMERICAS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) focusing first on where Tiger is rather than who is leading. I'd rather see good golf than him not playing well. Don't get me wrong- he can be mesmerizing, but I don't really need to see three snips in a row of him chunking the ball or hitting a drive into the pine straw when there have been some truly astounding shots made by other guys.

But I guess the golf industry has hitched it's cart to the cult of Tiger and is going to milk it for all it's worth.

GoReds33
04-12-2008, 09:58 AM
I still think he can win, but I'm having my doubts. It's hard enough for him to shoot the rounds he needs to to get back into contention, but that's still no guarantee that the current leader isn't going to have teh same rounds.

Highlifeman21
04-12-2008, 09:58 AM
The problem with Tiger is that he didn't play a bad first two days in a major. -1 heading into saturday isn't all that bad but there are so many people in between Tiger and the leader at -8 it will be a daunting task for him to come back.

I wish Tiger played the par 5s smarter so far. Many players this week have had a lot of under-par success by laying up and sticking their 3rd shot tight to give them a better chance at birdie, rather than bombing it twice and hoping you're close to the green. This is a case where Tiger's length is actually hurting him. He's so long that he's assuming it's a green light to go at every par 5 in two. Over the next 2 days, I hope he plays the 5s better, b/c he could easily make up 8 shots.

Augusta always has been, and always will be about placement and distance control. Tiger knows that, probably better than anyone, but it looks like his distance control is "just off". Augusta's such a tough track, that when your distance control is "just off", you're finding places on the course you'd never wanna be.

MWM
04-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Tiger's also not making any putts. He missed 2 yesterday inside 6 feet. Sinking those two alon and he's be at -3.

I just think 7 strokes is too many especially when you look at the quality of the players in front of him. He could prove me wrong, but I hear the weather conditions are going to be tough over the weekend making it hard to make any birdies.

bucksfan2
04-12-2008, 10:52 AM
I wish Tiger played the par 5s smarter so far. Many players this week have had a lot of under-par success by laying up and sticking their 3rd shot tight to give them a better chance at birdie, rather than bombing it twice and hoping you're close to the green. This is a case where Tiger's length is actually hurting him. He's so long that he's assuming it's a green light to go at every par 5 in two. Over the next 2 days, I hope he plays the 5s better, b/c he could easily make up 8 shots.

Augusta always has been, and always will be about placement and distance control. Tiger knows that, probably better than anyone, but it looks like his distance control is "just off". Augusta's such a tough track, that when your distance control is "just off", you're finding places on the course you'd never wanna be.

I figured you would appreciate this. My uncle was down at Augusta for the wednesday practice round. The first par 5 on the back #13 he watched Zack Johnson play. He hit his drive and unlike most players who hit a couple of shots at the green he layed up. When he got to the layup spot his caddy went ahead to each day's hole maker (marked with something resembling a tee) and shot a lazer to a sprinkler head that Johnson was standing on. I remember last year when he won the tourney he didn't go after the par 5's in 2 but layed up and attacked them with a wedge. I guess last year it worked out and this year not so much but I thought it was an interesting story none the less.

On a side note he said august had a drainage system under each green that allowed the greens keeper to draw as much water out of the green to make them hard and fast. I have a feeling that the greens today and tomorrow will be rock hard because the directors want the score to come back to par.

Highlifeman21
04-12-2008, 08:47 PM
I figured you would appreciate this. My uncle was down at Augusta for the wednesday practice round. The first par 5 on the back #13 he watched Zack Johnson play. He hit his drive and unlike most players who hit a couple of shots at the green he layed up. When he got to the layup spot his caddy went ahead to each day's hole maker (marked with something resembling a tee) and shot a lazer to a sprinkler head that Johnson was standing on. I remember last year when he won the tourney he didn't go after the par 5's in 2 but layed up and attacked them with a wedge. I guess last year it worked out and this year not so much but I thought it was an interesting story none the less.

On a side note he said august had a drainage system under each green that allowed the greens keeper to draw as much water out of the green to make them hard and fast. I have a feeling that the greens today and tomorrow will be rock hard because the directors want the score to come back to par.

You are correct.

Last year, Johnson layed up on every Par 5 each day. Looks like it worked for him!

You're also correct about Augusta's drainage system. The Super can control how much moisture is in the ground all over the course, and the reason the azaleas are already blooming is b/c there are heating coils under each bed. Augusta National is a very technology saavy agriculture experiment.

After each round at The Masters, the tournament and greens committee at Augusta National get together with the Super in an attempt to dictate play and a target score for the field. Nothing brings them greater satisfaction than a winning score of par or worse.

SunDeck
04-12-2008, 09:15 PM
You are correct.

The Super can control how much moisture is in the ground all over the course, and the reason the azaleas are already blooming is b/c there are heating coils under each bed.

The Greens, yes, but I think somebody's taking the rest of that one a little far.
The azaleas bloom this time throughout the South, sans heaters. In fact, I just talked to my mom this morning- the Carolinas are awash in azaleas right now.

MWM
04-13-2008, 12:27 AM
Man, Immelman has a great swing. I always knew he was good, but he has one of the best swings on tour. He's so solid, and i'd be surprised if doesn't hang on tomorrow.

Boy did lefty melt down in Mickelson fashion today after that ball hit the pin on that par 5. He went from probably a tap in birdie to a 3 putt bogey. He then proceeded to go on tilt and totally fall apart.

I agree with whoever said that Tiger should just stop being stubborn and be more willing to lay up on some of the par 5s. He's such a great wedge player (see #17 today) that I don't understand why he didn't just do that on #15 instead of trying to hit that extreme fade that wound up in the bunker.

If he was within 4, I might think he had a chance, but I think 6 is too much with 4 guys in front of him. I think it's going to be Immelman or Casey.

Redhook
04-13-2008, 07:35 AM
Man, Immelman has a great swing. I always knew he was good, but he has one of the best swings on tour. He's so solid, and i'd be surprised if doesn't hang on tomorrow.

It's technically the best swing I've seen and I've seen a lot. I've been touting his swing for a couple of years now. His swing is damn near perfect. I love watching it. At impact and post-impact, the only player just as good that I've seen is Nick Price.


Boy did lefty melt down in Mickelson fashion today after that ball hit the pin on that par 5. He went from probably a tap in birdie to a 3 putt bogey. He then proceeded to go on tilt and totally fall apart.

I agree with whoever said that Tiger should just stop being stubborn and be more willing to lay up on some of the par 5s. He's such a great wedge player (see #17 today) that I don't understand why he didn't just do that on #15 instead of trying to hit that extreme fade that wound up in the bunker.

If he was within 4, I might think he had a chance, but I think 6 is too much with 4 guys in front of him. I think it's going to be Immelman or Casey.

It could be a crazy day with the weather. Without inclement weather I don't think Tiger would have a chance. It's still a long-shot, but with him you never know. He's due to comeback and win a major. He's yet to do it, will today be the first? We'll see.

Immelman will be tough to beat today. His putter could hold him back. But his ball-striking is good enough to hit a lot of fairways and greens in bad weather. I'm hoping for an exciting finish with Trevor winning. What a great story that would be! He had a tumor a few months ago and now he's leading the Masters. Outstanding stuff right there.

MWM
04-13-2008, 11:03 AM
It's technically the best swing I've seen and I've seen a lot. I've been touting his swing for a couple of years now. His swing is damn near perfect. I love watching it. At impact and post-impact, the only player just as good that I've seen is Nick Price.



It could be a crazy day with the weather. Without inclement weather I don't think Tiger would have a chance. It's still a long-shot, but with him you never know. He's due to comeback and win a major. He's yet to do it, will today be the first? We'll see.

Immelman will be tough to beat today. His putter could hold him back. But his ball-striking is good enough to hit a lot of fairways and greens in bad weather. I'm hoping for an exciting finish with Trevor winning. What a great story that would be! He had a tumor a few months ago and now he's leading the Masters. Outstanding stuff right there.

If it was 4 strokes or less, I'd give Tiger a chance, but 6 is a such a tough number without Greg Norman being the one in the lead. :D

Yeah, Immelman's swing looks technically flawless and even a total amateur like myself can see that. He's money off the tee. I've also really liked what I've seen of him in interviews and such. He's definitely a guy I wouldn't mind seeing emerge as a consistent contender in majors. And Ogilvy looks ready to really break out as well. I just want there to be more competition at the top so we can see some rivalries emerge and have a lot of exciting Sunday golf at the big tournaments.

Redhook, I'd love to play a round with you when I'm back in town. :)

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 12:31 PM
Immelman will be tough to beat today. His putter could hold him back. But his ball-striking is good enough to hit a lot of fairways and greens in bad weather. I'm hoping for an exciting finish with Trevor winning. What a great story that would be! He had a tumor a few months ago and now he's leading the Masters. Outstanding stuff right there.

That is a great story and there are a lot of nice stories out there this year, but the biggest and most Cinderella type story is one that I really haven't heard much about. 8 months ago Owen Wilson tried to kill himself and he had a jacked up nose. Now look at him. He's out of the hospital doing much better by all accounts, he's gotten his nose fixed and he's 2 shots back from the lead at the Masters, ON SUNDAY no less. I really hope he wins, but just him being out there is a victory in my book.

MWM
04-13-2008, 12:42 PM
Owen Wilson? Did you mean Snedeker? He's the only guy two shots back.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Owen Wilson? Did you mean Snedeker? He's the only guy two shots back.

Who?

MWM
04-13-2008, 01:09 PM
That is a great story and there are a lot of nice stories out there this year, but the biggest and most Cinderella type story is one that I really haven't heard much about. 8 months ago Owen Wilson tried to kill himself and he had a jacked up nose. Now look at him. He's out of the hospital doing much better by all accounts, he's gotten his nose fixed and he's 2 shots back from the lead at the Masters, ON SUNDAY no less. I really hope he wins, but just him being out there is a victory in my book.

This is what I was referencing.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 01:14 PM
This is what I was referencing.

Never mind. It was a small attempt at humor on my part that has gone very wrong. Obviously not funny. Sometimes you swing and miss.

MWM
04-13-2008, 01:24 PM
Sorry. I completely missed it. I don't get the reference at all. My guess is it's a movie I haven't seen.

MWM
04-13-2008, 02:03 PM
Also, I REALLY love the whole 3D looks at the holes that CBS has added this year. Many times the gimmicks networks add to sports telecasts just detract from the watching pleasure (see Fox and baseball coverage). But this really helps the viewers to appreciate what the players are looking at while playing Augusta.

SunDeck
04-13-2008, 02:09 PM
I was just thinking the opposite- perhaps my lack of imagination is getting in the way, but the 3D shots didn't do much for me.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 02:23 PM
Sorry. I completely missed it. I don't get the reference at all. My guess is it's a movie I haven't seen.

Brandt
http://img.timeinc.net/golf/i/tours/2007/08/aug19_snedeker_299x396.jpg
Owen
http://www.celebrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/owen-wilson-suicide-8-29-07.jpg

SunDeck
04-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Flashback- watching the '78 Masters on CBS- I can remember my dad yelling at the TV, "Just hit the ball for Chrissakes, Hubert!"

I had forgotten how he would labor over those short shots; it was agonizing to watch him. But man, I don't remember anyone who could get up and down like he could.

And how about those Sans-a-belt slacks? Awful.

RawOwl UK
04-13-2008, 02:38 PM
Fingers crossed Paul Casey can mount a challenge today. Also nice if Poulter can finish top 5 to win me a little money :)

MWM
04-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Flashback- watching the '78 Masters on CBS- I can remember my dad yelling at the TV, "Just hit the ball for Chrissakes, Hubert!"

I had forgotten how he would labor over those short shots; it was agonizing to watch him. But man, I don't remember anyone who could get up and down like he could.

And how about those Sans-a-belt slacks? Awful.


Yeah, I really enjoyed the look back at the '78 Masters. 64 on Sunday. That's awesome. And I enjoyed the interview with Player. I'm a big fan of his.

And I didn't know a whole lot about that Masters, so I didn't realize Green missed a near tap in to lose it. You could tell by his body language he didn't have much chance. He really talked himself out of it. I can't imagine the games that would play with your mind knowing you just needed to knock in a 3 footer to go into a playoff for the Masters. Scott Hoch's is still the biggest choke I've ever seen.

SunDeck
04-13-2008, 02:47 PM
I do remember there being some talk about him backing off the shot because someone clicked their camera. Just think of the reaction these days if that would happen to Tiger. Green didn't seem to be too upset about it, but it had to throw him off. Nevertheless, he should have made it.

SunDeck
04-13-2008, 02:53 PM
I like Immelman's swing, but I like Snedeker's even more because he is the epitome of tempo, rhythm and swinging easy to hit it long. I hope these two guys don't fold; it would be fun to watch them both play well today.

MWM
04-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Brilliant eagle by Snedeker on #2. Only the second one of the week. He looks comfortable. Doesn't look like Tiger's day. He just missed a 4 footer on #4 for par. I think he's done. His putter never got going this week. He's missed more inside 10 feet this week when than I've seen him miss in a long time.

SunDeck
04-13-2008, 03:19 PM
Circus putt! Through the windmill and under the dinosaur. Tiger looks tight- I get bored with their discussing it. Cut back to the leaders.

MWM
04-13-2008, 04:17 PM
Well, this is turning into a snoozer. Snedeker has fallen apart, which I didn't think would happen, and Immelman has hit two straight approach shots within 5 feet. He missed the second one, but still has a 4 shot lead.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 05:20 PM
Tiger with a 70 footer on 11, but has another long putt for birdie on 12.

Edit: Chip not putt.

Redhook
04-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Tiger's a little more stuck today with his swing than he has been the last few days. He's starting his 3-wood and irons way right. He's just a bit off today. Plus, for some reason, he's a little tentative on the greens. Very rare. I hope he makes an eagle to make the finish exciting.

paintmered
04-13-2008, 05:39 PM
Immelman is staring at bogey as he starts through Amen Corner.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Somehow he dropped that putt.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 05:46 PM
Apparently Tiger wants to make it easy on Trevor.

MWM
04-13-2008, 05:47 PM
Immelman pulled that par out of his rear on 11 and Tiger misses another 5 footer. And his miss wasn't even close. It never had a chance. I've not seen Tiger miss shorts one like this before. If he would have just made the puts 6 feet and in the last two days, he'd be -9 or -10 right now.

Redhook
04-13-2008, 05:48 PM
Tiger never misses putts under 5 feet in majors on Sunday. Yet, he's missed two today. It's not his day.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 05:49 PM
I thought that silly shot out of the pine straw would have gotten Tiger back on track.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 05:51 PM
If Immelman makes par out of this then he's got some sort of evil on his side.

Matt700wlw
04-13-2008, 06:07 PM
Evidentally, if you chose "the field," you would be the winner.

MWM
04-13-2008, 06:19 PM
Tiger never misses putts under 5 feet in majors on Sunday. Yet, he's missed two today. It's not his day.

He missed at least 2 yesterday as well. If you extend it out to about 8 feet, he's missed probably 6 in the last 2 rounds. It feel really weird saying this, but I think one of the announcers was right in saying that Tiger rarely lets his frustrations get to him on the course, but today he did. It sure did look like he wasn't in his normal mental state today. Maybe that's a result of him just knowing he didn't have it, but it didn't look like the same guy.

Matt700wlw
04-13-2008, 07:27 PM
Other golfers don't beat Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods just doesn't always win.

:)

MWM
04-13-2008, 07:32 PM
Well, I'm happy how things turned out. Immelman was clearly the best golfer this week at Augusta. And not that the attention should be on Tiger, but it's still amazing to me that he was obviously out of sync all week never putting together a single strong round and he still finished in second place just 3 shots out of the lead. It took a great golfer like Immelman playing some of the best golf he's ever played to beat him.

Highlifeman21
04-13-2008, 09:16 PM
Tiger's a little more stuck today with his swing than he has been the last few days. He's starting his 3-wood and irons way right. He's just a bit off today. Plus, for some reason, he's a little tentative on the greens. Very rare. I hope he makes an eagle to make the finish exciting.

I DVR'd all the Masters coverage, to use as a way to train my eye to elements of the golf swing. It looked to me that Tiger had 4 swings today.

1. Driver swing
2. Fairway metal swing
3. Long irons swing (2 thru 6)
4. Other (7 thru wedges, and punch shots)

Tiger seemed very un-Tiger today. For such a technical player, it almost seemed like he was trying to play by feel today, and it wasn't a recipe for success. Instead of dancing with the girl he brought to the dance, Tiger ditched everything he'd done in the first 3 rounds, and attempted to try something almost drastically new. It's a shame he couldn't bring his 3rd round game to Augusta National today.


As for other players, it seemed the Immelman had exceptional tempo in every round. Flesch seemed very herky-jerky today, as opposed to being very smooth and crisp the first 3 rounds. Cink's tempo also was very inconsistent, especially with his scoring clubs (8 thru wedges, putter). I felt horrible for Snedtker today, since he wasn't playing his game or the course, but rather attempted to play Immelman. Snedtker started off bogey eagle bogey, IIRC, and it was a rollercoaster ride. He knew he had to make shots, and IMO attempted to hit shots he just didn't have.

But ultimately, kudos to Immelman. He seemed very Retief Goosen-esque out there. Calm, cool, collected, and when he was given strokes back to the field, it didn't phase him. Of all the Masters winning moments I can remember seeing, Immelman easily had to have the most "ho hum" reaction ever. It wasn't until he embraced his caddie that he actually showed some emotion and some satisfaction over the moment.

MWM
04-13-2008, 09:29 PM
Goosen is exactly who I was thinking he reminded me of today.

kaldaniels
04-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Don't get me wrong...Tiger is on his way to becoming the best golfer ever, but you just don't go off spouting how you could win the Grand Slam this year. The minute he did that I was rooting for the field. Congrats to Trevor. :thumbup:

MWM
04-13-2008, 10:19 PM
Don't get me wrong...Tiger is on his way to becoming the best golfer ever, but you just don't go off spouting how you could win the Grand Slam this year. The minute he did that I was rooting for the field. Congrats to Trevor. :thumbup:

That's not exactly how it happened and he didn't go "spouting off" about it. And he's spent a lot of energy explaining what he meant. But what happens is people read a sound bite without the context and jump to conclusions.

The way it was asked at the time is whether or not he thinks it's "possible". And his response was basically that:

1 - He had won 4 in row already, so winning 4 in a row is possible.
2 - He's won more than four tournaments in most of the years he's played, so it's just a matter of winning the right ones.

Because of these two things he's thinks it's possible to win the grand slam. He didn't volunteer that he thought he could win it this year. He was asked a question, and he answered it reasonably.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 10:30 PM
That's not exactly how it happened and he didn't go "spouting off" about it. And he's spent a lot of energy explaining what he meant. But what happens is people read a sound bite without the context and jump to conclusions.

The way it was asked at the time is whether or not he thinks it's "possible". And his response was basically that:

1 - He had won 4 in row already, so winning 4 in a row is possible.
2 - He's won more than four tournaments in most of the years he's played, so it's just a matter of winning the right ones.

Because of these two things he's thinks it's possible to win the grand slam. He didn't volunteer that he thought he could win it this year. He was asked a question, and he answered it reasonably.

FWIW that is also how I remember it.

kaldaniels
04-13-2008, 10:56 PM
That's not exactly how it happened and he didn't go "spouting off" about it. And he's spent a lot of energy explaining what he meant. But what happens is people read a sound bite without the context and jump to conclusions.

The way it was asked at the time is whether or not he thinks it's "possible". And his response was basically that:

1 - He had won 4 in row already, so winning 4 in a row is possible.
2 - He's won more than four tournaments in most of the years he's played, so it's just a matter of winning the right ones.

Because of these two things he's thinks it's possible to win the grand slam. He didn't volunteer that he thought he could win it this year. He was asked a question, and he answered it reasonably.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22789745/

First came a comment toward the bottom of a story on his Web site earlier this month when he was asked about the possibility of winning the Grand Slam in a calendar year.
“I think it’s easily within reason,” he said.


Now, "spouting off" was a harsh term, but thats what I get for getting my info from PTI. However...I wish he would have chose his words more carefully considering he was talking about an accomplishment that has, well, never been accomplished.

Lets say Tony Gwynn hit over .400 over a single 162 game (but not calender) stretch in his career (and hey, maybe he did?)...it still wouldn't look good in spring training one year if he said hitting .400 was "easily within reason". Am I comparing apples and oranges to illustrate my point, yes...because a .400 season has been accomplished on multiple occasions. :D

Taken out of context or not...I wish Tiger would have choose his words a little more carefully regarding a never-has-been accomplished feat. Again, that said, he is on his way to becoming the greatest golfer ever.

Razor Shines
04-13-2008, 11:19 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22789745/

First came a comment toward the bottom of a story on his Web site earlier this month when he was asked about the possibility of winning the Grand Slam in a calendar year.
I think its easily within reason, he said.


Now, "spouting off" was a harsh term, but thats what I get for getting my info from PTI. However...I wish he would have chose his words more carefully considering he was talking about an accomplishment that has, well, never been accomplished.

Lets say Tony Gwynn hit over .400 over a single 162 game (but not calender) stretch in his career (and hey, maybe he did?)...it still wouldn't look good in spring training one year if he said hitting .400 was "easily within reason". Am I comparing apples and oranges to illustrate my point, yes...because a .400 season has been accomplished on multiple occasions. :D

Taken out of context or not...I wish Tiger would have choose his words a little more carefully regarding a never-has-been accomplished feat. Again, that said, he is on his way to becoming the greatest golfer ever.

I've discussed this before and IMO almost all great athletes have that type of confidence. The kind of confidence that almost (in fact to some it does) comes off as arrogance. I think it takes that kind of belief in yourself and your abilities to be the best of the best. Maybe some of the greats won't express their belief, but I can almost guarantee you that that type of confidence, the kind that Tiger displays, is there.

MWM
04-13-2008, 11:32 PM
I love what I've seen from Immelman this week both on and off the course. I'm going to go on record as saying that he's going to win at least 2 more majors in the next 2-3 years. I think he's going to emerge as one of the top 5 players in the world. I think him and Geoff Ogilvy are going to consisently challenge Tiger in a way we were all hoping Mickelson, Sergio, Vijay, Goosen, etc... would. Tiger's still going to win the most, but I think we're going to see a few players emerge who can run with Tiger. At least that's what I'm hoping. And I didn't say this about Zach Johnson or Angel Cabrera, or Padraig Harrington. Immelman seems different. I think this is just the beginning for him.

MWM
04-13-2008, 11:34 PM
Also, Tony Gwynn was quoted on numerous occasions that he thought hitting .400 was possible. And he even said he thought he "would have" hit .400 had the strike not happened in 1994. I have no problem with Tiger saying what he did. And he's explained numerous time why he said it.

kaldaniels
04-14-2008, 12:06 AM
Also, Tony Gwynn was quoted on numerous occasions that he thought hitting .400 was possible. And he even said he thought he "would have" hit .400 had the strike not happened in 1994. I have no problem with Tiger saying what he did. And he's explained numerous time why he said it.

Look, stirring people up was the last thing I intended to do. I was just stating the minute Tiger said winning the Grand Slam in a calendar year was "easily within reason" was the minute I rooted for the field.

Again...apples and oranges compared to Gwynn's statement http://www.wesh.com/sports/13770507/detail.html
...when the strike occured he was hitting .394 in August...which would be like the PGA championship being canceled while Tiger (having won the Master,Us and Brit Open) was on the 10th hole down by a stroke. Gwynn's statement looks rather foolish if you ask me....but again, at least his season was 70 percent down before he said such a thing.

Help me help myself...what exactly did Tiger say to clarify his remark...maybe that will help me realize what he meant. Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned but winning the golf Grand Slam is unheard of...

Another example...I loathe the New England Patriots...but one thing I will give them is they know how to answer questions appropriately. They totally (which they should have, since it was unprecedented) dissed any talk of 17-0 until mid-late season when subtle references to it came out.

Sorry to offend.

MWM
04-14-2008, 12:06 AM
I just looked it up and Tiger has finished 1st or 2nd in 6 of the last 7 majors. I remember hearing some criticism of him in recent years that he didn't compare to Jack because didn't just have 18 majors he also finished second 19 times.

He's finished 1st or 2nd in 9 of the last 13, and in that stretch he also finished 3rd once and 4th one as well. So he's finihsed in the top 4 in 11 of 13 majors. One of the times he didn't was when he missed the cut after his dad's death. The other time he finihsed 12th.

MWM
04-14-2008, 12:13 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/masters08/columns/story?columnist=harig_bob&id=3336284

"And he did not back off from the biggest topic of discussion that has surrounded him this year.

"You have to understand why I said that," Woods said, referring to a post on his own Web site in December that suggested he would win the Grand Slam. "I've done it before; I've won all four in a row. The majority of my career, this is 12th or 13th season out here, and nine of those years I've won five or more tournaments. So just got to win the right four. That's what it boils down to."

Look, i hate cockiness in athletes as much as anyone. I'm so tired of NFL receivers it's sickening. But equating what Tiger said in answer to a specific question with other cocky athletes is missing the mark, IMO. I'm not offended, I just think his comments have been misunderstood by some people without understanding his rationale or the context in which he made the comments. Tiger Woods has always been confident and he believes he's going to win every time he steps out on the course. But he's always been fairly humble and a great ambassador to the game, IMO. I mean, what's he supposed to say, "no, I don't think it's possible and I'll never do it." I don't think he could say that, especially considering he won 4 in a row before. If he's done it already, how is doing it in one calendar year any more difficult. 4 in a row is 4 in a row. So i think he would have been disingenious had he try to act like it wasn't possible.

kaldaniels
04-14-2008, 12:24 AM
Number of players (including Tiger) with a score at or better than his.

2007 Masters 4
2007 Us Open 3
2007 British Open 18
2007 PGA 1 (tiger)

From a strictly all things are equal standpoint...which they aren't of course. But looking at it hypothetically...

Lets just say anyone of the players with a score equal or better to Tiger has equal odds of winning each of the above tournaments. How do I come to that...I'm just assuming at the Masters 4 players played as well as Tiger, 3 at the Us Open, etc....

That makes Tigers odds of winning each tourney...

Masters 25%
Us 33%
British ~7% (rounding in favor of Tiger)
PGA 100%

Statistical permutations puts Tigers odds of winning all of those tourneys in 2007 at...
6 out of every 1000 golf seasons. (rounding in Tiger's favor)

Statistically speaking...for every 4 Tiger slams he would win...he would only win 1 calendar Grand Slam.

There is no greater opponent than "the field".

kaldaniels
04-14-2008, 12:54 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/masters08/columns/story?columnist=harig_bob&id=3336284

"And he did not back off from the biggest topic of discussion that has surrounded him this year.

"You have to understand why I said that," Woods said, referring to a post on his own Web site in December that suggested he would win the Grand Slam. "I've done it before; I've won all four in a row. The majority of my career, this is 12th or 13th season out here, and nine of those years I've won five or more tournaments. So just got to win the right four. That's what it boils down to."

Look, i hate cockiness in athletes as much as anyone. I'm so tired of NFL receivers it's sickening. But equating what Tiger said in answer to a specific question with other cocky athletes is missing the mark, IMO. I'm not offended, I just think his comments have been misunderstood by some people without understanding his rationale or the context in which he made the comments. Tiger Woods has always been confident and he believes he's going to win every time he steps out on the course. But he's always been fairly humble and a great ambassador to the game, IMO. I mean, what's he supposed to say, "no, I don't think it's possible and I'll never do it." I don't think he could say that, especially considering he won 4 in a row before. If he's done it already, how is doing it in one calendar year any more difficult. 4 in a row is 4 in a row. So i think he would have been disingenious had he try to act like it wasn't possible.

MWM...I do understand what you are saying don't get me wrong....
He wasn't being cocky or arrogant to the extent of your typical brash athlete. I find it hard to explain in words, but I'd put it along the lines of he wasn't being respectful enough of one of sports true unreachable (to this point) milestones. I get the fact he has won 4 in a row. Thats awesome. But it is a whole new ballgame when you say he is going to win the right 4 majors in a row...and I think Tiger knew that based on the link you provided.

But 2 things rub me wrong here.
1)The calendar slam has never been done
2)The odds for a player as good as Tiger to win the calendar slam are still slim to none.

So please...until it has been done Tiger, be humble regarding it.

Again statistically lets look at his odds starting at the 2008 season to win the calendar Slam. And I am looking for the best scenario/best set of data in Tiger's favor.

His 2005-2007 seasons was his best stretch since his Tiger slam. He won 5 of 12 majors during that time. That gave him a 42 percent chance of winning a given major he enters. Which would give him a 3.1 percent chance of winning the calendar slam this year. And that is using his best stretch/data field since the Tiger Slam. If you throw in his 2004 (no major) season...the percent drops to less than 1 percent. Did I mention his major-winless 2003 season? You want the more recent data set (just 2007, where he one 1 in 4 majors)...less than 1/3 of 1 percent.

The Grand Slam comes down to one thing...do you win the tourney...2nd place doesn't count.

Check out his wiki page for a quick look at his major finishes...if there is a better way to statistically rate his chances at the slam let me know.

Best golfer ever? Probably.
Would I take the field against him every time? You bet.

Redhook
04-14-2008, 08:18 AM
I DVR'd all the Masters coverage, to use as a way to train my eye to elements of the golf swing. It looked to me that Tiger had 4 swings today.

1. Driver swing
2. Fairway metal swing
3. Long irons swing (2 thru 6)
4. Other (7 thru wedges, and punch shots)

Tiger seemed very un-Tiger today.

It's a shame that we was off because it could've been one heck of a finish. Somedays you just don't have it no matter what the situation. Usually, Tiger rises to the occasion on Sundays, but he was just off yesterday.

His driver swing was actually decent yesterday and this week. He gets into trouble when his feet are aimed down the right side of the fairway and his shoulders are aimed down the left. That's when he hits those low pulls and high rights. When he's square he drives it much better.

There were some key swings/shots that got him yesterday. And this isn't counting is shody putting. Here are 3 that stick out to me:

#8: He had a 60 yard wedge shot and was planning to drive it low and skip it back there. My favorite wedge shot. Then, he seemed to change his mind and added a little extra finish while cupping his follow-thru...which equals a lot more spin. Well, wouldn't you know, he left the shot 25-feet short. And the shot was into the wind. I have no idea why he added the extra spin to that shot. For him, a bad shot there should've been about 10 feet away. Parring that hole really seemed to take some momentum away from him.

#10: His 3 wood off the tee was in the fairway, but very short. His shoulders were slightly open at address; therefore, he was stuck and started the ball about 15 yards right of his line. The shot was weak and didn't get any roll. Hence, he had 216 from a steep downslope which led to bogey. A decent swing there and he probably would've made a par.

#13: Dido. Same swing as #10 which caused him to drive it through the fairway instead of turning it around the corner. Yes, he should've still made birdie, but I guarantee you if he hit the green in 2 he would've made a birdie.

Those 3 shots weren't the reason Tiger didn't win, but they sure didn't help. He just made a lot more errors than he normally makes and his putting was absolutely putrid. I haven't seen Tiger putt that poorly in a long, long time.

What's amazing is Tiger played pretty bad for his standards, and still came in second.

I'm very happy Trevor won. I've been telling people for a couple of years that he has my favorite, and IMO the best, swing on tour. I'm glad he's getting some recognition now. If he stays healthy, and I really hope he does, he'll be a very good player for years to come.

MWM
04-14-2008, 09:16 AM
Winning 4 in one calendar year is no more statistically improbable than winning 4 in a row spanning two years. Your statistical methodology above could be applied to 4 in a row starting with any o the 4 majors. So yes, it has been done. 4 in a row is 4 in a row. I've always said it will never happen, but that doesn't mean it's not within reason that it COULD happen. I don't think any of his fellow golfers had any problem with what he said either and I doubt any of them thought it was an insult. If you haven't sat and watched his explanation (other than on PTI), than you're doing Tiger a real disservice.

kaldaniels
04-14-2008, 09:44 AM
Winning 4 in one calendar year is no more statistically improbable than winning 4 in a row spanning two years. Your statistical methodology above could be applied to 4 in a row starting with any o the 4 majors. So yes, it has been done. 4 in a row is 4 in a row. I've always said it will never happen, but that doesn't mean it's not within reason that it COULD happen. I don't think any of his fellow golfers had any problem with what he said either and I doubt any of them thought it was an insult. If you haven't sat and watched his explanation (other than on PTI), than you're doing Tiger a real disservice.

I have looked into this explanation and I'm not satisfied...sorry.

Again...winning the Calendar slam is 75 percent less likely than winning the Tiger Slam if a given player is going to win 4 majors in a row. I don't know if you got my point on that one given your opening sentence. Think of it this way...as said the odds are slim enough that Tiger will win another 4 majors in a row. Now, if one concedes that he will win 4 in a row...it is still only a 25 percent chance that the streak begins at Augusta...which makes the calendar slam more of a milestone than simply a 4-major winning streak.

Final illustration and I'm done...obviously I can't change your mind, but I'd just like to you understand my opinion. The New England Patriots had a 20 game winning streak around 2004. Now what would have been more impressive...19-0 this past year or the 20 game streak back then. I would assume and hope most people would say 19-0. Of course there are a different set of variables with team sports...but I hope that illustrates my point about the diffuculty/magnitude of a "calendar" event vs. a random streak.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I just wish Tiger had taken the "Tom-Brady" route and answered the question by saying "I'm just going to worry about the Masters right now" and for a lack of a better term poo-pooed the question.

"Easily within reason" is not what I want to hear about the never-been accomplished Grand Slam of golf. That's all I got.

elfmanvt07
04-14-2008, 10:02 AM
2007 British Open 18

British ~7% (rounding in favor of Tiger)


The stats may suggest otherwise, but I would take the 20% at The Open. He's just as good in the wind on the links as he is anywhere else.

kaldaniels
04-14-2008, 10:26 AM
The stats may suggest otherwise, but I would take the 20% at The Open. He's just as good in the wind on the links as he is anywhere else.

And thats fine. I was just illustrating that despite how good Tiger was last year...at the British Open there were 18 golfers that were equal to or in most cases, better than him.

Also realize I gave him a 100 percent chance of winning the PGA Championship which of all my numbers is the most unreasonable.

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 11:39 AM
I love what I've seen from Immelman this week both on and off the course. I'm going to go on record as saying that he's going to win at least 2 more majors in the next 2-3 years. I think he's going to emerge as one of the top 5 players in the world. I think him and Geoff Ogilvy are going to consisently challenge Tiger in a way we were all hoping Mickelson, Sergio, Vijay, Goosen, etc... would. Tiger's still going to win the most, but I think we're going to see a few players emerge who can run with Tiger. At least that's what I'm hoping. And I didn't say this about Zach Johnson or Angel Cabrera, or Padraig Harrington. Immelman seems different. I think this is just the beginning for him.

I'm not so sure about Trevor Immelman consistently challenging Tiger within the next 2-3 years.

Yesterday Immelman actually said one of the reasons he didn't take one peek at the leaderboard during the final round was b/c he was "deathly afraid of Tiger". He didn't want to see if Tiger was making a move. He didn't want to know how many strokes he had on the field. A golfer admitting they have a large fear of the best player in the world doesn't easily equate to "will consistently Tiger" IMO. I hope Immelman does. Hell, I hope anyone does, b/c it would be great for Tiger to have a consistent competitive rival, but if Immelman is afraid of Tiger, I don't like Immelman's odds to be that rival.

flyer85
04-14-2008, 11:42 AM
Trevor is a solid player with a great swing ... having said that it is really hard to win majors. Great players like Els, Singh and Mickelson have only three. Tiger just makes it look too easy at times.

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 11:44 AM
It's a shame that we was off because it could've been one heck of a finish. Somedays you just don't have it no matter what the situation. Usually, Tiger rises to the occasion on Sundays, but he was just off yesterday.

His driver swing was actually decent yesterday and this week. He gets into trouble when his feet are aimed down the right side of the fairway and his shoulders are aimed down the left. That's when he hits those low pulls and high rights. When he's square he drives it much better.

There were some key swings/shots that got him yesterday. And this isn't counting is shody putting. Here are 3 that stick out to me:

#8: He had a 60 yard wedge shot and was planning to drive it low and skip it back there. My favorite wedge shot. Then, he seemed to change his mind and added a little extra finish while cupping his follow-thru...which equals a lot more spin. Well, wouldn't you know, he left the shot 25-feet short. And the shot was into the wind. I have no idea why he added the extra spin to that shot. For him, a bad shot there should've been about 10 feet away. Parring that hole really seemed to take some momentum away from him.

#10: His 3 wood off the tee was in the fairway, but very short. His shoulders were slightly open at address; therefore, he was stuck and started the ball about 15 yards right of his line. The shot was weak and didn't get any roll. Hence, he had 216 from a steep downslope which led to bogey. A decent swing there and he probably would've made a par.

#13: Dido. Same swing as #10 which caused him to drive it through the fairway instead of turning it around the corner. Yes, he should've still made birdie, but I guarantee you if he hit the green in 2 he would've made a birdie.

Those 3 shots weren't the reason Tiger didn't win, but they sure didn't help. He just made a lot more errors than he normally makes and his putting was absolutely putrid. I haven't seen Tiger putt that poorly in a long, long time.

What's amazing is Tiger played pretty bad for his standards, and still came in second.

I'm very happy Trevor won. I've been telling people for a couple of years that he has my favorite, and IMO the best, swing on tour. I'm glad he's getting some recognition now. If he stays healthy, and I really hope he does, he'll be a very good player for years to come.

Off the top of my head, it seemed Tiger hit his 3 metal like garbage all week. You're absolutely right that he hit his driver very well this week, and I'm surprised he didn't hit more stinger drives, or bunt drives. With his length, and him struggling with the 3 metal, I would have thought he might have kept the 3 metal in the bag and shortened up on the driver. But he didn't.

I was also surprised by his seemingly erratic distance and spin control with his wedges. Tiger knows Augusta National probably the best since Jack, and he looked like a younger version of himself who lacked consistent distance control with his scoring clubs.