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View Full Version : Why is Jay Bruce playing CF for Louisville if he is Griffey's heir apparent in RF?



WMR
04-07-2008, 06:57 PM
I don't get it.

Jay himself said earlier this year that he hasn't had much--if any--experience playing RF. You'd think the Reds would want him getting maximum exposure to the RF position right now considering that is logically where he will be placed next season?

reds44
04-07-2008, 07:01 PM
Sure, unless the Reds expect him to contribute this year.

WMR
04-07-2008, 07:03 PM
Sure, unless the Reds expect him to contribute this year.

2 things:

1) Even still, playing RF is much more difficult than CF. Does he really need more reps in CF?

2) What are the odds he'll be needed this season in RF to replace a brittle Griffey versus a plethora of CFers who the organization clearly likes (and with Patterson, I think really love).

dougdirt
04-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Maybe its to get Dickerson time in RF, who has played even less over there than Bruce who the team has to view as a bench player/4th/5th outfielder at this point?

Highlifeman21
04-07-2008, 07:53 PM
I guess I'm not reading too much into where in the OF Bruce plays in Louisville.

Now if he all of a sudden starts playing a lot of 1B, then I might lift an eyebrow with concern.

RedlegJake
04-08-2008, 08:00 AM
Well, the opinion seems to be that Bruce takes RF for Junior next year but could be the Reds are leaving all their options open. CP has a 1 year deal. Junior's deal can be opted in or out of. Jay may play some of both this year and get ready for whichever direction the Reds go.

princeton
04-08-2008, 09:55 AM
Junior's smacking the ball...

redhawk61
04-08-2008, 10:16 AM
O boy what now Bruce played LF last night......

SarasotaFan
04-08-2008, 02:24 PM
why must a guy be set to play only 1 outfield position ? if he's truly an athlete then he'll be able to make the adjustment, right ? miguel cabrera went to the big leagues from AA after playing 1 or 2 games in left field. granted he's back at 3rd now but i believe he held is own out there while Mike Lowell was at 3rd don't you ?? :)

LouisvilleCARDS
04-10-2008, 10:41 PM
As I understand it, you can either resign Griffey for like $8 mil, or buy him off for like $4 or $5 mil. So its a matter of if you will pay $3-$4 mil for Griffey another year, and I say yes! Even in the twilight of his career, he's worth that much.

Homer Bailey
04-10-2008, 10:45 PM
2 things:

1) Even still, playing RF is much more difficult than CF. Does he really need more reps in CF?

2) What are the odds he'll be needed this season in RF to replace a brittle Griffey versus a plethora of CFers who the organization clearly likes (and with Patterson, I think really love).

You really think its easier to play CF than RF? I'm sorry I completely disagree. I've played both. It is so hard to read a ball off the bat in centerfield. PS that is a respectful disagree.

RedlegJake
04-10-2008, 10:51 PM
As I understand it, you can either resign Griffey for like $8 mil, or buy him off for like $4 or $5 mil. So its a matter of if you will pay $3-$4 mil for Griffey another year, and I say yes! Even in the twilight of his career, he's worth that much.

His option is for $16.5 million with a $4 million buyout. You'll pay 12.5 million for another year of Junior. I love him but sayonara.

Screwball
04-10-2008, 10:53 PM
As I understand it, you can either resign Griffey for like $8 mil


I think Griffey's set to make $16.5 million next year.

RedlegJake
04-10-2008, 10:55 PM
You really think its easier to play CF than RF? I'm sorry I completely disagree. I've played both. It is so hard to read a ball off the bat in centerfield. PS that is a respectful disagree.

Really? I always loved CF and felt it was much easier to read fly balls. You just need to be able to cover more ground. When my HS coach put me in left from time to time I found it was much harder to read the ball. For one thing more balls have spin and slice on them in the corners. Maybe it's just that I played CF most of the time.

princeton
04-10-2008, 11:59 PM
His option is for $16.5 million with a $4 million buyout. You'll pay 12.5 million for another year of Junior. I love him but sayonara.

Reds might prefer that over Dunn for huge bucks over a long term. They can also offer Dunn arbitration, and earn two draft picks when he walks

redhawk61
04-11-2008, 12:09 AM
Reds might prefer that over Dunn for huge bucks over a long term. They can also offer Dunn arbitration, and earn two draft picks when he walks

I think we gotta let Dunn walk and find a LF option either in the system or outside. The draft picks we would get for him would be huge, just look what Kriv turned Rich Aureilla (sp?) into, the man goes by the name of Todd Frazier and last I checked he is a stud

redhawk61
04-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Really? I always loved CF and felt it was much easier to read fly balls. You just need to be able to cover more ground. When my HS coach put me in left from time to time I found it was much harder to read the ball. For one thing more balls have spin and slice on them in the corners. Maybe it's just that I played CF most of the time.

I found both equally as difficult

With CF it sometimes can be hard to read the "depth" of the ball since it is coming straight at you
While in the corners you have to read and react to the "slice" and "hook" of the ball.

Reading the ball I would say is harder in the corners, but chasing down the ball is harder in CF, so I would grade them equally.

LouisvilleCARDS
04-11-2008, 02:05 AM
Are you sure about this 16.5 mil figure? Bowden really made a crappy contract to get Junior here, even though he was the best player in the game at the time - offering him a 16.5 mil option 8 years down the line?!

I would like to see him stay, if they pay the buyout, I wonder if he would resign for like $5-$6 mil or so. That 16.5 mil option is insane though, what kind of crack was Bowden on?

camisadelgolf
04-11-2008, 08:59 AM
As stated, the option is for $16.5MM, and there is a $4MM buyout. For the past few years, Griffey has had a lot of his salary deferred (about half, iIrc), but I don't believe he hasn't agreed (yet?) to defer any more of it should he somehow stay with the Reds in 2009.

gonelong
04-11-2008, 09:09 AM
Reds might prefer that over Dunn for huge bucks over a long term. They can also offer Dunn arbitration, and earn two draft picks when he walks

I'm leaning towards this as the most likely outcome. I don't think they will sign Dunn, and I'm ok with that. The time for the Reds to build around Dunn was when he was undervalued. He will be fairly valued (or possibly over-valued) over the next 3-4 years.

Unless he is willing to sign a real decent 3 year contract, I think I let him walk.

GL

RedlegJake
04-11-2008, 01:51 PM
Reds might prefer that over Dunn for huge bucks over a long term. They can also offer Dunn arbitration, and earn two draft picks when he walks

Don't resign Junior. Let Dunn walk, grab the draft choices. CP in CF and Bruce in RF. Sign a RH bat for LF. Sacrilege? Well, you'd have 25 million or more depending on what Dunn's contract would cost. Depends on who is going to be available in FA and what they'd cost or who you could trade for to fill that other OF spot.

klw
04-11-2008, 02:48 PM
Don't resign Junior. Let Dunn walk, grab the draft choices. CP in CF and Bruce in RF. Sign a RH bat for LF. Sacrilege? Well, you'd have 25 million or more depending on what Dunn's contract would cost. Depends on who is going to be available in FA and what they'd cost or who you could trade for to fill that other OF spot.

Manny ramirez anyone?

princeton
04-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Don't resign Junior. Let Dunn walk, grab the draft choices. CP in CF and Bruce in RF.

since CPatt's trying to price himself out of Cincy (and best of luck to him), and is occupying a spot that Bruce or Stubbs can play, I suspect that he'll be going.

Dunn or Jr? I can't figure which, but suspect that Cast will want at least one back.

WMR
04-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Manny ramirez anyone?

Oh god no.

When he declines, it's not going to be pretty, not to mention he's even worse than Dunn in LF (playing in the smaller Fenway LF).

Stephenk29
04-11-2008, 03:39 PM
I always thought Right was far and above the hardest of the three, so I kinda agree that he should get some reps there if he hasn't played there much. I think the Reds might not be positive what they want to do with Griffey, hence time in Center, Right, and left for good measure.

Kingspoint
04-11-2008, 03:42 PM
Patterson's hot start only ensures that Bruce will remain in AAA through the All-Star break, as Dushy will be reluctant to remove Patterson until Patterson goes into at least a 6-week slump.

It's terrible to think that for "at least" the next 3 months the REDS will have a guy with an OBP under .300 leading off their games while a guy with an OBP of .400 will be rotting away in AAA, who plays the same position.

As far as answering the lead question of this thread,....CF is the only logical place for him to be playing if you're Management and you recognize the fact that Corey Patterson will have to eventually be replaced as the leadoff hitter. You can't win games with a leadoff hitter with an OBP of under .300. Bruce has to get to the Majors this summer, and it's either going to be in LF because Adam Dunn gets traded, and he doesn't need practice in LF, or it's CF, and it's there that he does need the practice. Who needs practice to play Right Field? It's Right Field.

dougdirt
04-11-2008, 03:46 PM
As far as answering the lead question of this thread,....CF is the only logical place for him to be playing if you're Management and you recognize the fact that Corey Patterson will have to eventually be replaced as the leadoff hitter. You can't win games with a leadoff hitter with an OBP of under .300. Bruce has to get to the Majors this summer, and it's either going to be in LF because Adam Dunn gets traded, and he doesn't need practice in LF, or it's CF, and it's there that he does need the practice. Who needs practice to play Right Field? It's Right Field.

Sure, but Jay Bruce should never bat leadoff. Its a waste of his skillset and a total mismanagement of it as well.

As for practicing the corners.... you need it, especially if you have never played there before. The ball does a lot of funny things in the corners that it won't do in CF. It tails, has different spins, you have to learn to deal with walls not just behind you but now on the side of you.

Kingspoint
04-11-2008, 04:06 PM
As for practicing the corners.... you need it, especially if you have never played there before. The ball does a lot of funny things in the corners that it won't do in CF. It tails, has different spins, you have to learn to deal with walls not just behind you but now on the side of you.

Back to the original point of, "What the heck is Corey Patterson doing on the team to begin with"?

The only way Bruce gets to practice playing defense in these corners and in the outfield is by having him play in the 15 ballparks that are in the National League, and the others in the AL through the interleague games. He needs Major League at-bats. Every at-bat by Corey Patterson is one that Bruce doesn't get and one that stunts his growth. Instead of going through the growth period now, he'll just be doing it later, but who knows when later will be? Who's going to sit? It also doesn't matter where Bruce hits in the lineup his rookie season. He's eventually going to land in the #3 spot and stay there for 10 years.

dougdirt
04-11-2008, 04:35 PM
Back to the original point of, "What the heck is Corey Patterson doing on the team to begin with"?

The only way Bruce gets to practice playing defense in these corners and in the outfield is by having him play in the 15 ballparks that are in the National League, and the others in the AL through the interleague games. He needs Major League at-bats. Every at-bat by Corey Patterson is one that Bruce doesn't get and one that stunts his growth. Instead of going through the growth period now, he'll just be doing it later, but who knows when later will be? Who's going to sit? It also doesn't matter where Bruce hits in the lineup his rookie season. He's eventually going to land in the #3 spot and stay there for 10 years.

Not exactly... Patterson is a fine addition to the team. Outside of his being misused, there isn't much I don't like about him on the team. He fills a role that no one else on the roster can fill, and its a legit CFer. He isn't taking away from Bruce, the Reds having Griffey and Dunn is. I think Bruce is the best prospect in baseball and he can play CF, but he is probably much better suited for a corner where he can be great defensively.

As for it doesn't matter were he hits in the lineup his rookie season... I can't disagree more. Batting him leadoff hurts the team. Batting him eighth hurts the team. Batting him leadoff hurts his game, because there are different things expected of a leadoff hitter than there are for most other guys. Expecting him to adjust to major leaguers and then at the same time to alter his plate approach is a big issue.

Kingspoint
04-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Not exactly... Patterson is a fine addition to the team. Outside of his being misused, there isn't much I don't like about him on the team. He fills a role that no one else on the roster can fill, and its a legit CFer. He isn't taking away from Bruce, the Reds having Griffey and Dunn is. I think Bruce is the best prospect in baseball and he can play CF, but he is probably much better suited for a corner where he can be great defensively.

As for it doesn't matter were he hits in the lineup his rookie season... I can't disagree more. Batting him leadoff hurts the team. Batting him eighth hurts the team. Batting him leadoff hurts his game, because there are different things expected of a leadoff hitter than there are for most other guys. Expecting him to adjust to major leaguers and then at the same time to alter his plate approach is a big issue.

In many respects you're right. Especially about who you put batting leadoff. I took over management of a team once after the season had already begun. (I'm talking about a real team, not computer/whatever). The team was 0-7, and I'm sitting on the sidelines watching the lineup being mismanaged, not being able to say anything. I knew the lineup just had to be changed a little to turn the team around as the talent was there. What I did was take the fastest player on the team and put him in the leadoff spot. I worked with him on his defense to improve his game at SS. (His range was poor because of poor legwork. He was trying to get to balls with his glove instead of his legs, and his motion from scooping up the ball to throwing to first wasn't fluid.) I took the player batting leadoff, and moved him to 6th. He was more of a Corey Patterson-type...a hacker with some power. The increased confidence of the SS at Defense along with being put in as the leadoff brought up that player's OBP (he had no power), and it gave the rest of the team a boost of confidence. The other player (who played RF) did fine in his new spot, and while initially some egos were bruised, winning made them get over it quickly, as they immediately went on an 8-game winning streak. In the end, we missed the playoffs by 1 game, but it does matter who bats leadoff. In my opinion, Bruce would be just fine batting leadoff for a while, and as manager I would ask him not to do anything differently from what he's been taught to do the last three years.

When your leadoff guy is getting out all the time it effects the confidence of the rest of the team mainly because they're wondering why he's getting so many at-bats.

LouisvilleCARDS
04-11-2008, 08:58 PM
I think the key is how good we do this year, to all our future signings. If the Reds are contenders, I think Castellini will put some more money into the team, and also the fans will come out in droves to see a contending Reds team, also contributing more revenue for signings. If Dunn AND Griffey are off the books, that leaves a ton of free money to make a big splash signing someone. But considering we could lose our entire starting outfield as of today, but do have Bruce out there - there's still two spots to be filled. There was some talk in spring training of converting Alex Gonzalez to outfielder, I'm not sure how his arm and length would be out there though, but it might be an option.

Anyone have a payroll site for the Reds that show all the contracts for the future?

Kingspoint
04-12-2008, 04:42 PM
Anyone have a payroll site for the Reds that show all the contracts for the future?

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

camisadelgolf
04-13-2008, 12:47 PM
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

Something tells me that a very interesting trade would need to happen for this link to be accurate. ;)