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View Full Version : Adam Dunn looks absolutely lost at the plate right now



captainmorgan07
04-12-2008, 10:19 PM
Dunn is absoutely lost at the plate right now. He's late on pitches including tonite the one where he swung after the ball was in the catcher glove. What happened to the Dunn that shortened up his swing and went the other way with the ball. Having him and edwin back to back in the order right now is almost 2 automatic outs.

Cicero
04-12-2008, 10:29 PM
Dunn doesn't concern me too much. It's the inability to get runners around the bases that is killing us.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2008, 10:38 PM
And you don't think Dunn doesn't affect our ability to get runners around?

He's had 30 ab's. 20 of those have been walks or k's. He's not even trying to be aggressive.

Right now we've got two players in our lineup that are simply KILLING us. Edwin and Adam. People have been complaining about Joey too, but the kid is hitting .320 now. I mean look at our averages from our starting lineup tonight.....

Patterson .268 but he's been the most clutch and had the most pop with 4 dingers
Kepp .340
Junior .300
Phillips .320
Votto .320

Dunn .167
Edwin .171

Javy's down to .260'ish
Bako .346

Hopper and Freel are also stinking it up. Hmmm....I wonder who we should sit?

Dunn, Edwin, Javy, Freel & Hopper need some time off....LOTS of time off. If you must play them...only play ONE of them at a time. Dunn followed up by Edwin is a rally killer.

big boy
04-12-2008, 11:12 PM
People have been complaining about Joey too, but the kid is hitting .320 now.

I hope Votto is in the starting lineup for a while. He has earned it.

mlbfan30
04-12-2008, 11:15 PM
And you don't think Dunn doesn't affect our ability to get runners around?

He's had 30 ab's. 20 of those have been walks or k's. He's not even trying to be aggressive.

Right now we've got two players in our lineup that are simply KILLING us. Edwin and Adam. People have been complaining about Joey too, but the kid is hitting .320 now. I mean look at our averages from our starting lineup tonight.....

Patterson .268 but he's been the most clutch and had the most pop with 4 dingers
Kepp .340
Junior .300
Phillips .320
Votto .320

Dunn .167
Edwin .171

Javy's down to .260'ish
Bako .346

Hopper and Freel are also stinking it up. Hmmm....I wonder who we should sit?

Dunn, Edwin, Javy, Freel & Hopper need some time off....LOTS of time off. If you must play them...only play ONE of them at a time. Dunn followed up by Edwin is a rally killer.

Switch EE and BP.

EE is a patient hitter and is probably feeling a lot of pressure on him. He'll get better pitches with Dunn behind him and he'll still get on base.
BP will now be in the spot where all these situations are happening, and he's a slugger. BP also has some speed and can get into scoring position for those singles hitters at the bottom of the order

TheOnlyRedsFan
04-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Hopper and Freel havent played everyday. So I wouldnt expect their averages to be "through the roof"

Jefferson24
04-13-2008, 12:28 AM
Dunn is killing us right now. We are wasting good pitching. The pitching wont last and then we'll be well below 500. This is a sad state of affairs. Show up Opening day ready to play!!!! If your not going to produce sit on the bench or start in AAA.

Jefferson24
04-13-2008, 12:31 AM
It seems like plenty of other teams are showing up ready to play. This is why the good teams are in great shape May 1st And the Reds seem to be reeling.

Maldez
04-13-2008, 12:32 AM
Dunn has looked just as lost off and on for his entire career. Every time I get ready to flame the guy he goes on a tear and hits 5 HRs in 10 games.

TheBigLebowski
04-13-2008, 12:37 AM
I know Dunn will eventually start to hit again to the tune of his career norm of .254 or whatever it is but I've watched his act for way too long and I've seen enough. I do not want to sign him to a LTC. He strikes out too much, he's way too inconsistent and he's not a good defensive player.

757690
04-13-2008, 02:57 AM
I know I am going to get killed for promoting this, but I think the Reds should trade Dunn in June when they can, or trade him now if he will waive his no trade clause.

First, it would be a huge mistake to sign him to a LTC. He would get around $15M+ over at least 4 years, and he simply is not worth it. For the Reds to pay someone that amount they have to be the most feared hitter in the lineup. The one hitter that pitchers never pitch to unless they have to.
Dunn is not that type of a hitter. Pitchers know that they can get him out if they pitch him right. Dunn is a great mistake hitter, but the guys who get $15M+ a year, are the ones that can hit any pitch, especially pitchers pitches. Think of the fear that Pujols, Ortiz, A-Rod, Howard, etc put in the minds of opposing pitchers. Dunn has no ability to do that. The evidence is that he is a terrible two strike hitter. His OPS with two strikes is .575. The average OPS for middle of the lineup hitters in the majors is .659. Pitcher know that once he gets two strikes on him, which is often since he is so patient, that they can get him out. And don’t even get me started on Dunn in crucial situations.

That’s why the Reds should trade him, and bring up Bruce. They should be able to get some good prospects for him. Look at what Texas got for Teixeira.
I know that next year, Griffey will probably be on another team or retired, but that would give the Reds plenty of money to go out replace both of them. With Stubbs, Dorn and now Szymanski coming up, the Reds only need to find one or two year replacements. Heck, if Dusty promises to never bat him leadoff ever again, I would say sign Patterson long term instead of Dunn.

elfmanvt07
04-13-2008, 07:03 AM
Dunn doesn't concern me too much. It's the inability to get runners around the bases that is killing us.

I couldn't agree more. We scored three runs on fourteen hits last night. That could say a lot of things: we lack speed, we lack clutch hitting, we lack power, the lineup is poor. I haven't been able to watch a game yet this year, but from what I understand, the problem is mostly the clutch problem.

REDblooded
04-13-2008, 07:33 AM
I couldn't agree more. We scored three runs on fourteen hits last night. That could say a lot of things: we lack speed, we lack clutch hitting, we lack power, the lineup is poor. I haven't been able to watch a game yet this year, but from what I understand, the problem is mostly the clutch problem.

If not hitting in the clutch concerns you, then Dunn concerns you.

Maldez
04-13-2008, 09:06 AM
I know Dunn will eventually start to hit again to the tune of his career norm of .254 or whatever it is but I've watched his act for way too long and I've seen enough. I do not want to sign him to a LTC. He strikes out too much, he's way too inconsistent and he's not a good defensive player.

I agree 100%. I was once the biggest Adam Dunn fan on the planet, but I've grown tired of his act. I find myself wincing when he comes to the plate in crucial situations because the man simply does not have the bat command that a good hitter has. You can almost smell his confusion.

Think of all the great young hitters out there (Ryan Braun, e,g,) and look at how they attack the ball with brutal confidence. Dunn's up there guessing and hoping.

The Reds can do so much more with that $13M a year. Come August it'll be Jay Bruce in left field and Adam Dunn playing DH in the American League.

Grande Donkey
04-13-2008, 09:15 AM
I agree 100%. I was once the biggest Adam Dunn fan on the planet, but I've grown tired of his act. I find myself wincing when he comes to the plate in crucial situations because the man simply does not have the bat command that a good hitter has. You can almost smell his confusion.

Think of all the great young hitters out there (Ryan Braun, e,g,) and look at how they attack the ball with brutal confidence. Dunn's up there guessing and hoping.

The Reds can do so much more with that $13M a year. Come August it'll be Jay Bruce in left field and Adam Dunn playing DH in the American League.

I'd hope it's Jr. in left with Bruce in right.

Big Hurt
04-13-2008, 12:29 PM
I think I'd rather have Dunn playing first base. He looks along the line of those big, old-time first basemen like Killebrew, Howard, and Powell. He won't be able to last in the OF and he's just barely making it defensively now. Send Votto down to shore up his skills in LF and let the move for Dunn to first begin. We are not certain that Votto is going to ever be a talented defensive first baseman. Even though it is early, he sure looked rough yesterday. I think his play would be better in the OF and we could keep his bat. Dunn is tall and a great target. I think he could dedevelop the skills needed and we could keep his big bat.

Chris Sabowned
04-13-2008, 12:56 PM
I think I'd rather have Dunn playing first base. He looks along the line of those big, old-time first basemen like Killebrew, Howard, and Powell. He won't be able to last in the OF and he's just barely making it defensively now. Send Votto down to shore up his skills in LF and let the move for Dunn to first begin. We are not certain that Votto is going to ever be a talented defensive first baseman. Even though it is early, he sure looked rough yesterday. I think his play would be better in the OF and we could keep his bat. Dunn is tall and a great target. I think he could dedevelop the skills needed and we could keep his big bat.


Why?

Dunn hasn't committed any errors this season. His OF play is greatly improved. And I think it would be an terrible idea to send Votto down now, just when he's starting to get it going.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Switch EE and BP.

EE is a patient hitter and is probably feeling a lot of pressure on him. He'll get better pitches with Dunn behind him and he'll still get on base.
BP will now be in the spot where all these situations are happening, and he's a slugger. BP also has some speed and can get into scoring position for those singles hitters at the bottom of the order

*puzzled*

So you want Edwin batting CLEANUP?!? Junior, Edwin, Dunn, Phillips? Yikes. Edwin needs to be taken OUT of the lineup...period. He's not hitting OR fielding. I don't care how much potential a player has, at some point in time he needs a slap in the face to get his attention. Send him to Louisville (or lower) to rebuild his confidence. Heck, single A might be a great idea for him right now. Look at the wonders it did for Edinson when he was with the Rangers.

The problem as I see it right now is that Dusty (and many others) want the Reds to go out there with a conventional line-up. And we simply don't have the players for a conventional line-up. Corey Patterson is NOT a leadoff hitter. Adam Dunn is not a clean-up hitter. Junior is not a clean up hitter. And Phillips sure as heck isn't one either. So dump the cleanup hitter concept and the traditional leadoff hitter concept. Batting order simply doesn't matter that much over the long haul. Having two struggling hitters swinging back-to-back DOES have an effect.

Now I know this will fly in the face that all "experts" would think, but how about this?

1-Adam Dunn LF (lefty)
2-Jeff Keppinger SS (righty)
3-Ken Griffey Jr RF (lefty)
4-Joey Votto 1B (lefty)
5-Brandon Phillips 2B (righty)
6-Corey Patterson CF (lefty)
7-Paul Bako C (lefty)
8-Edwin Encarnacion 3B (righty)
9-Pitcher

Dunn is a patient hitter who'll draw walks. A high on base percentage guy. Isn't that what you want to start an inning? It also forces the starting pitcher to pitch defensively right off the start. It keeps him from getting in a rhythm right from the outset. Not to mention the fact that you've got a great opportunity to get those leadoff homeruns that make things sooooo much easier on your starting pitchers mindset. Now if you're worried about him ending up with too many solo shots...try looking at his past history. He already had a plethora of those anyway. Also, leading off will mean his strikeouts won't be "rally killers". Just an out.

Kepp is a perfect #2 hitter in my opinion. He hits to all fields, he's patient and he produces. Let's give him the opportunity to do so with someone on base.

Junior gives us the pop in the middle of the lineup while still hitting for a nice average. #3 is nearly perfect for Ken. #5 is a posibility, but it makes it easier to pitch around him. This way we've got two solid hitters behind him to force the pitcher to throw to him.

Joey isn't your prototypical cleanup hitter, but this isn't your prototypical team either. He's a nice hitter for average with some pop. A much better option to back up Junior than Adam or Phillips or the blasphemous suggestion of Edwin. Now while he hasn't drawn a walk yet this year, he HAS been patient at the plate. They'll come. The main thing here is to make it clear to Joey that he's in the #4 hole but we're not expecting him to lead the league in HR's...just hit.

Brandon could succeed in nearly any position in the lineup I believe. Except for one. Clean up. He's not a homerun hitter. But putting him there will nudge him towards that mindset. Last year he hit a lot of dingers, but I don't want him to start TRYING to hit them. Given the opportunity, he'll hit for a nice average and then the HR's will come of their own accord. Putting him in the #4 hole is almost like pressuring him to hit the long ball.

Patterson and Bako will hit with enough average and pop to clean up any runners that the top half of the lineup put on. I considered splitting these two guys up with Edwin but the Pitchers nearly an automatic out anyway so why have 4 hitters in a row be taken out of the equation.

If Edwin is out of the lineup (and I hope he is soon), then whoever replaces him fits in nicely in the #8 hole. Rosales, Freel, Castro, whoever. The only exception would be one of the Louisville RH bats like Hairston or Cabrera. If it's one of those two filling the 3b duties (can either of them play third?!?) then I'd split Patterson & Bako with them.

I know it flys in the face of regular thinking, but I see it succeeding more than what we're doing now.

mlbfan30
04-13-2008, 01:32 PM
As Much as everyone wants EE to be sent to AAA for benched, here are some players who have a lower AVG right now than both EE and Dunn.....(going from lowest to highest)

*David Ortiz
Adam LaRoche
Andruw Jones
Jose Guillen
Casey Blake
Placido Polanco
Jim Thome
Troy Tulowitzki
*Russell Martin
**Miguel Cabrera

Should all these players be benched also? Ortiz is .070 with a .370 OPS right now.

Out of all those players, EE has the highest OPS. In fact if we use OPS here are some more names that are doing worse in addition to the names before.

Robinson Cano
Carl Crawford
Hunter Pence
*Jose Reyes
Freddy Sanchez
*Alfonso Soriano
Shane Victorino
Johnny Damon
Joe Mauer
Delmon Young
Khalil Greene
Edgar Renteria
*Garrett Atkins
**Mark Teixeira
**Prince Fielder
Adam Dunn
**Magglio Ordonez
Ryan Zimmerman
Troy Glaus
Corey Hart
Michael Young
**Ryan Braun
*Ichiro Suzuki
Dan Uggla

Now... EE has better stats than Every Player just mentioned. Should all of these players get benched? It's 2 weeks and the only thing I can say is SAMPLE SIZE

captainmorgan07
04-13-2008, 01:59 PM
Im sure those guys aren't playing as bad defensively as EE is right now. He's not only a liablity at the dish but with the leather to.

757690
04-13-2008, 02:11 PM
As Much as everyone wants EE to be sent to AAA for benched, here are some players who have a lower AVG right now than both EE and Dunn.....(going from lowest to highest)

*David Ortiz
Adam LaRoche
Andruw Jones
Jose Guillen
Casey Blake
Placido Polanco
Jim Thome
Troy Tulowitzki
*Russell Martin
**Miguel Cabrera

Should all these players be benched also? Ortiz is .070 with a .370 OPS right now.

Out of all those players, EE has the highest OPS. In fact if we use OPS here are some more names that are doing worse in addition to the names before.

Robinson Cano
Carl Crawford
Hunter Pence
*Jose Reyes
Freddy Sanchez
*Alfonso Soriano
Shane Victorino
Johnny Damon
Joe Mauer
Delmon Young
Khalil Greene
Edgar Renteria
*Garrett Atkins
**Mark Teixeira
**Prince Fielder
Adam Dunn
**Magglio Ordonez
Ryan Zimmerman
Troy Glaus
Corey Hart
Michael Young
**Ryan Braun
*Ichiro Suzuki
Dan Uggla

Now... EE has better stats than Every Player just mentioned. Should all of these players get benched? It's 2 weeks and the only thing I can say is SAMPLE SIZE

I completely agree that EE should not be sent down, I think he should be moved to 1B to be the RH part of a platoon with Votto. But that is just for he defense.

However, there is a huge difference between EE and all the players in the first list except Tulowiski, and all the players in the second list other than Hunter Pence, Robinson Cano and Ryan Braun. All those other players have had a long history of success, of putting up all-star type numbers. EE has had two decent, but not by any means outstanding years in the majors. This was supposed to be his breakout year, and the fact that he is struggling, after struggling all spring is a bad sign.

There really is no need to wait on a guy to get out of his slump so he can get back to hitting .270 with 15 homers and 70 RBI's. I know he gets a good share of walks, and is pretty good in the clutch, but if all he does is repeat his numbers from the last two years, then he will be a disappointment.

I think the frustration on everybody's mind is that he was supposed to get better this year, and so far, he had been much worse.

Newman4
04-13-2008, 02:22 PM
I know I am going to get killed for promoting this, but I think the Reds should trade Dunn in June when they can, or trade him now if he will waive his no trade clause.

First, it would be a huge mistake to sign him to a LTC. He would get around $15M+ over at least 4 years, and he simply is not worth it. For the Reds to pay someone that amount they have to be the most feared hitter in the lineup. The one hitter that pitchers never pitch to unless they have to.
Dunn is not that type of a hitter. Pitchers know that they can get him out if they pitch him right. Dunn is a great mistake hitter, but the guys who get $15M+ a year, are the ones that can hit any pitch, especially pitchers pitches. Think of the fear that Pujols, Ortiz, A-Rod, Howard, etc put in the minds of opposing pitchers. Dunn has no ability to do that. The evidence is that he is a terrible two strike hitter. His OPS with two strikes is .575. The average OPS for middle of the lineup hitters in the majors is .659. Pitcher know that once he gets two strikes on him, which is often since he is so patient, that they can get him out. And donít even get me started on Dunn in crucial situations.

Thatís why the Reds should trade him, and bring up Bruce. They should be able to get some good prospects for him. Look at what Texas got for Teixeira.
I know that next year, Griffey will probably be on another team or retired, but that would give the Reds plenty of money to go out replace both of them. With Stubbs, Dorn and now Szymanski coming up, the Reds only need to find one or two year replacements. Heck, if Dusty promises to never bat him leadoff ever again, I would say sign Patterson long term instead of Dunn.

I agree. The FA pitching market is pretty decent in 09. To some, Dunn is worth the $$$ and that's fine. I'd rather spend mine elsewhere.

Oxblood
04-13-2008, 02:44 PM
Should have traded dunn last year when his stock was up.

AdamDunn
04-13-2008, 03:56 PM
Should have traded dunn last year when his stock was up.

Question is who wanted him and what they were willing to give up. I think Dunn could be traded this year since he only has one year left on his contract.

redsfanmia
04-13-2008, 06:34 PM
Should have traded dunn last year when his stock was up.

We should have traded Dunn 4 years ago when his stock was up and he was cheap.

Hondo
04-13-2008, 07:23 PM
Woah!

Adam Dunn is going to end the Season with a .270-40-100 Season.

That is a Given. If he had some sort of protection, he might be getting pitches to hit.

This team has No Right Handed Power Bat... This team gets zero to none production out of 3rd and 1st Base... 2 Positions who are supposed to have Productive Power Bats...

This team doesn't need Ryan Spillouboroughs, or however u spell his name, doesn't need Johnny Gomes, doens't need Sammy Sosa...

Or any other Right handed Bat that I have read Suggested...

The only thought I can think of is hitting Edwin in front of Griffey and move Keppinger down, but then I feel, Kepp is getting Good pitches to hit because he is in front of Griffey...

So I don't know what to do... This team needs some Right Handed Punch...

I am going to make 1 Suggestion. Not a great one, but I think that This Player could be had for Little to Nothing...

Brandon Inge...

When Granderson gets back, this guy should be available...

Maybe package Freel in there to counter some of the Money INGE is owed...

The Tigers were trying to move Inge and will be again soon. I'd like to see him playing Third base. I bet he could smack 30-35 Homers at GAB...

Of course he is going to Strike Out 130 times too...

Nasty_Boy
04-13-2008, 08:07 PM
I love how Dunn is getting the blame for the offensive troubles. Marte owned him last night, but what other situation has Dunn failed in? Dunn has also walked more than he's K'd. Phillips failed twice in the Pitt series to drive in a runner from 3rd in the 1st inning, he has more K's than Dunn, has got on base less, and has the same number of HRs and RBIs. Why not trade him? It's early and guys are struggling but players like Dunn don't lose it over night. Dunn hit the ball hard in Milwaukee but made some outs. He drilled a liner right at the 2nd baseman in Pitt with runners on 1st and 2nd. He lined one of the pitcher against Philly with runners on that shoulda been a hit. If those 4 balls find the hole he's hitting .277. Everyone needs to relax just a little.

_Sir_Charles_
04-14-2008, 03:58 PM
I don't think Dunn is getting "blamed" for the offensive problems. But he is PART of the problem. Yes, he's walked more than he's K'd. But he's done both at such a high rate it's fairly obvious that he's extremely passive at the plate right now. He's getting pitches to hit...he's just watching them sail on past. I've seen many AB's where he hasn't even taken the stick off his shoulder. I'm not suggesting that he needs to swing at bad pitches. Just that he needs to go up there with an aggressive mind-set...and he doesn't have that right now.

The biggest problem with the offense right now is the 1-2 combination of Dunn and Edwin back to back. That's an instant rally killer. As for Brandon Phillips...his biggest problem right now is that he's looking to hit homers being misplaced in the cleanup slot. Brandon is NOT a #4 hitter. Trying to make him one is only going to ruin his swing and approach at the plate.

SarasotaFan
04-14-2008, 04:29 PM
I think he looks more lost in the batter's box....