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View Full Version : Finally have the pitching and now we have no hitting.....



ChatterRed
04-12-2008, 11:37 PM
Figures. :rolleyes:

Mutaman
04-13-2008, 12:16 AM
It's called baseball. But after 7 years of having the worst pitching in the league, i'll take what we've got now. But tonight, Votto's error really hurt. And both Bronson and Lincoln gave up two out run producing hits. Lincoln was pretty disappointing after his sterling efffort in Milwaukee. But he's still a big improvement over what we had last year. Right now the problem is we're not hitting with men on base, and Dunn, EE and the entire bench are't hitting at all.


"He who gets the most two-out hits wins," Dusty Baker said. "They did and we didn't."


I still think this is at least a .500 team

Jefferson24
04-13-2008, 01:21 AM
This team seems like they are searching for a way to lose. Good pitching = poor hitting. Good hitting = only seen it one game so far. Its a real shame the Reds will likely end this road trip with a loosing record. It's all down road from here. Gosh I hope I'm wrong but its been so long since this team has actually been decent. Go ahead prove me wrong!!!!

redsman344
04-13-2008, 01:39 AM
I think they will be alright. It's very early. The bats should come around. As long as the pitching continues to be good over the summer I think we should at least be in the running in the fall.

Big Hurt
04-13-2008, 11:02 AM
IMO a couple of issues that could dampen our season (and the reason for so many LOBs) is that we have so many left handed hitters, no true high BA player to consistantly knock them in, and little speed on the base paths to stretch hits into extra bases and steal a few from time to time. The pitching has been pretty good so far but I'm not liking the identity of our offense. Kepp may be our only high BA guy who can consistantly drive someone home. We tend to count on HRs too much to plate runs. I've noticed in this early year the inability to steal bases thus making sacrifices to home and third more valuable. When you look around this is really a slow team on the base paths with the exception of Patterson and Phillips. Finally, it seems that mediocre left handers give our left handed laden lineup fits. Teams are stacing their rotations early in the season to see if we can adjust to lefties. So far no dice.

CarolinaRedleg
04-13-2008, 11:11 AM
The bats will warm.

And after years of trying and failing with a power offense, I'm more than willing to try it with vastly improved pitching.

jmac
04-13-2008, 12:21 PM
I liked last night how Baker had Coffey warming up but then sat him down and got Lincoln up. It seems he isnt one to just go with guys because of roles. Coffey seems to have taken the mop-up type role till Belilse comes back then we will probably see Coffey go south.
I think we could soon see Burton replace Weathers as 8th inning guy.
I am really interested in seeing if there will any major difference in lineups or Dusty's approach today facing another lefty. Though with current roster, not alot you can do.

Jr's Boy
04-13-2008, 07:35 PM
This seems like a holdover from last year.I don't have the stats from then but it seems the Reds still can't move runners in scoring position.It's downright ugly the numbers of stranded runners the season so far.

Hondo
04-13-2008, 07:43 PM
Maybe Cueto should have been taken out after 5...

Also, Why is Todd Coffey on this Team?

redsupport
04-13-2008, 07:45 PM
ask JUan Castro that question

jmac
04-13-2008, 07:50 PM
Maybe Cueto should have been taken out after 5...

Also, Why is Todd Coffey on this Team?
Cueto gave up 5 hits. 2 probably should have been caught.
Still 5 hits / 5 er .
If this is a "bad" outing then he will be fine.
As far as coffey, I will be really surprised if he is on team much longer. Alot of people go back to what he did 2 years ago but he didnt resemble that guy in the slightest last year. This year, he has a good ST and then bell rings, and it's back to same.
To me, he has had his chance ( with the reds)

redsupport
04-13-2008, 09:10 PM
griffey in right field could not catch a cold

Jr's Boy
04-14-2008, 12:19 AM
griffey in right field could not catch a cold


Well at least Junior's hitting.


2008 CIN 12 40 8 12 3 0 1 6 8 7 0 0 .300 .420 .450 .870

757690
04-14-2008, 12:42 AM
When did the Reds ever really have the hitting. Considering that they play in the most hitter friendly park, they should have numbers like the Rockies did before the humidor.
Since 2001, the Reds have ranked 10th or lower in runs scored 5 times, seventh once, and in an anomaly, in 2005 were ranked 1st. (So I guess that answers my question, they had the hitting once, in 2005).

Playing half their games in GABP, they should be in the top 5 every year. The fact that they are not, is a sign that they need to restructure their offense. The offensive talent they have now, (and have had for quite some time) is not good enough, not by a long shot.

dougflynn23
04-14-2008, 03:06 AM
When did the Reds ever really have the hitting. Considering that they play in the most hitter friendly park, they should have numbers like the Rockies did before the humidor.
Since 2001, the Reds have ranked 10th or lower in runs scored 5 times, seventh once, and in an anomaly, in 2005 were ranked 1st. (So I guess that answers my question, they had the hitting once, in 2005).

Playing half their games in GABP, they should be in the top 5 every year. The fact that they are not, is a sign that they need to restructure their offense. The offensive talent they have now, (and have had for quite some time) is not good enough, not by a long shot.
Thank you. That needed to be said. The Reds are a mediocre hitting team at best.

krm1580
04-14-2008, 05:56 PM
The way the Reds roster has been put together I think they are going to be very inconsistent scoring runs all year. They seem to have too many of the same type guys playing the same postions that really limits the lineup combinations they can put out on the field.

With that being said I was trying to pull together a lineup where I think guys would fit in ideally and we definitely have problems.

#1. ?????????? - There not one guy on this team that remotely fits this. Freel or Hooper would be the closest but putting them in the lineup means Patterson is on the bench and I think most people would agree Patterson down in the lineup is much better than either of these two guys anywhere in the lineup. RATING - Below league average

#2. Keppinger - I know a lot of people talk about him hitting leadoff but his skillset is really ideally suited for #2 in the order. He can work the count, rarely strikes out, has some power and most importantly he seems to have a plan for every at bat like hitting to the right side with a runner on 2nd or aiming for the hole with a guy being held on at first. RATING - Above league average

#3. Griffey - He certainly is in decline and not the ideal #3 guy but I think he is the closest thing we have right now. The good news is Bruce eventually will take this spot and I believe will produce well above league average. For right now RATING - League average

#4. ??????????? - We need a classic right hand basher with 35-40 HR power or 45-50 in the steroid era. Nobody on this team comes remotely close. We stick EE and BP there but realistically both of them are 20-25 HR guys and don't fit the profile. RATING Below league average

#5. Adam Dunn - Without the pressure of being the main slugger in the lineup and with some protection behind him he can be very productive basing this on his career numbers more than his first 13 games this season. RATING Above league average

#6. Brandon Phillips - A righty to follow the lefty. His production out of the 6 hole would be well above league average and hitting this far down in the order would make the flaws in his offensive approach more tolerable. Rating Above league average

#7. Corey Patterson - I think everyone here would agree that Patterson is a productive player, just not a leadoff guy. Putting him in the 7th spot gets you above average productivity and again make his offensive approach more tolerable. Rating Above league average

#8. Insert whatever non-hitting catcher you would like here. (Sorry Paul Bako I am assuming you won't hit .367 all year. RATING Average to below average.

Ok so assume we put
LF Dunn
CF Patterson
RF Griffey
2B Phllips
3B or SS Keppinger
C Bako

So where do you go from here? I honestly don't know.

redlegsmustache
04-15-2008, 12:43 AM
See I dislike when people say "wait till they get the bats warmed up" or "give them a chance to get back into the swings of things."

I'm sorry but we are in the regular season in the race of 162 games for the world series win, or at least the playoffs. Getting back into the swing of things, or getting your timing down is for the 32 games played in early spring.


Players have skill. However coaches, and managers tell them how to use their skill. "play small ball, swing away" etc. They're to worried about playing small ball. Nothing wrong with small ball. However, were paying two outfields $30 million who are known for hitting the ball out of the park. Yet the management would rather have them play small ball. Its out of their element in a sense. They are used to crushing the ball, and getting runners in. But no they're told to find the gap, or go opposite field. Thats why the look so uncomfortable up there, and can't hit the ball. They have their timing, and they know how to hit a ball. But hitting a ball to a certain spot in the field, and with a certain amount of power is extremely difficult. Heck hitting the ball is difficult thats why the best hitter in the game ever only hit the ball at most 28%-33% of the time.

Hondo
04-15-2008, 05:53 PM
The way the Reds roster has been put together I think they are going to be very inconsistent scoring runs all year. They seem to have too many of the same type guys playing the same postions that really limits the lineup combinations they can put out on the field.

With that being said I was trying to pull together a lineup where I think guys would fit in ideally and we definitely have problems.

#1. ?????????? - There not one guy on this team that remotely fits this. Freel or Hooper would be the closest but putting them in the lineup means Patterson is on the bench and I think most people would agree Patterson down in the lineup is much better than either of these two guys anywhere in the lineup. RATING - Below league average

#2. Keppinger - I know a lot of people talk about him hitting leadoff but his skillset is really ideally suited for #2 in the order. He can work the count, rarely strikes out, has some power and most importantly he seems to have a plan for every at bat like hitting to the right side with a runner on 2nd or aiming for the hole with a guy being held on at first. RATING - Above league average

#3. Griffey - He certainly is in decline and not the ideal #3 guy but I think he is the closest thing we have right now. The good news is Bruce eventually will take this spot and I believe will produce well above league average. For right now RATING - League average

#4. ??????????? - We need a classic right hand basher with 35-40 HR power or 45-50 in the steroid era. Nobody on this team comes remotely close. We stick EE and BP there but realistically both of them are 20-25 HR guys and don't fit the profile. RATING Below league average

#5. Adam Dunn - Without the pressure of being the main slugger in the lineup and with some protection behind him he can be very productive basing this on his career numbers more than his first 13 games this season. RATING Above league average

#6. Brandon Phillips - A righty to follow the lefty. His production out of the 6 hole would be well above league average and hitting this far down in the order would make the flaws in his offensive approach more tolerable. Rating Above league average

#7. Corey Patterson - I think everyone here would agree that Patterson is a productive player, just not a leadoff guy. Putting him in the 7th spot gets you above average productivity and again make his offensive approach more tolerable. Rating Above league average

#8. Insert whatever non-hitting catcher you would like here. (Sorry Paul Bako I am assuming you won't hit .367 all year. RATING Average to below average.

Ok so assume we put
LF Dunn
CF Patterson
RF Griffey
2B Phllips
3B or SS Keppinger
C Bako

So where do you go from here? I honestly don't know.



#4 Hitter - Right Handed

Thats been a Problem for this team a long long time... 15 years maybe...

NeilHamburger
04-15-2008, 06:46 PM
The one year we hand that power right-handed bat for the middle of the order was...you guessed it 99 with Greg Vaughn. I'm not saying he was the reason we played well, but having that big righty bat to balance things out helps a lot.