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View Full Version : Why do the Reds' writers just roll over?



Wheelhouse
04-13-2008, 11:34 PM
The Reds have a third baseman and left fielder who are going into their sixth week of looking terrible at the plate, if you include their terrible springs. They are 1-3 against lefties, a completely forseeable trend that is carrying over from last year. They just dropped three games to a bad team after playing good ball against some top tier clubs. This is a trend over the last seven years-- not having the follow through to beat the bad teams. Yet, in the recaps, no questions about changes to the team, even with some RH bats hitting well in AAA that have ML experience. In New York the manager and especially the GM, would be answering tough questions. Dusty has gotten some soft tosses and of course Krivsky is nowhere to be found. And again these are repeating trends that are older than this two week season. Is it just the nature of the Midwestern press? Have the beats become so accustomed to losing that they have become losers as journalists themselves? Is there an unwritten rule that if you ask tough questions you'll be punished by restricted access to the team or something of the like? It's just really disturbing as a fan--and it looks like complacency.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2008, 11:38 PM
The Reds have a third baseman and left fielder who are going into their sixth week of looking terrible at the plate, if you include their terrible springs. They are 1-3 against lefties, a completely forseeable trend that is carrying over from last year. They just dropped three games to a bad team after playing good ball against some top tier clubs. This is a trend over the last seven years-- not having the follow through to beat the bad teams. Yet, in the recaps, no questions about changes to the team, even with some RH bats hitting well that have ML experience. In New York the manager and especially the GM, would be answering tough questions. Dusty has gotten some soft tosses and of course Krivsky is nowhere to be found. And again these are repeating trends that are older than this two week season. Is it just the nature of the Midwestern press? Have the beats become so accustomed to losing that they have become losers as journalists themselves? Is there an unwritten rule that if you ask tough questions you'll be punished by restricted access to the team or something of the like? It's just really disturbing as a fan--and it looks like complacency.

Come on. This isn't a question of effort or guts. Seriously--I don't know what you're asking for, really, but I know that in the end this is just a ill-proportioned and overall bad team, no different from the last eight years. No amount of hectoring from the press is going to change that.

reds44
04-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Come on. This isn't a question of effort or guts. Seriously--I don't know what you're asking for, really, but I know that in the end this is just a ill-proportioned and overall bad team, no different from the last eight years. No amount of hectoring from the press is going to change that.
The majority of the press doesn't feel the same way you do, and if they do they didn't write it before the season. Everything was about the much improved Reds with the young pitching.

Unassisted
04-13-2008, 11:42 PM
Is there an unwritten rule that if you ask tough questions you'll be punished by restricted access to the team or something of the like?
If I had to guess, I'd picture the unwritten rule to be more like this: If your work endlessly questions the manager's decisions and the GM's decisions, you'll be the reporter that reads about personnel decisions in news releases, rather than the one who gets hints dropped about them before they happen. ;)

Falls City Beer
04-13-2008, 11:46 PM
The majority of the press doesn't feel the same way you do, and if they do they didn't write it before the season. Everything was about the much improved Reds with the young pitching.

The national press wants a feel good story, and, well, the young arms provided a glimpse in spring training. Boom--there's a story. But the national press will dump the Reds quicker than a bucket of batcrap if they have a losing record in April. And local press will throw up its hands. I just think counting on any press to change how things are done in a small market is pointless. It's not going to happen.

Wheelhouse
04-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Come on. This isn't a question of effort or guts. Seriously--I don't know what you're asking for, really, but I know that in the end this is just a ill-proportioned and overall bad team, no different from the last eight years. No amount of hectoring from the press is going to change that.

I'm not asking the press to "hector" (heckle?) them. I'm asking why basic questions are not asked, that are asked to other teams by their beats, particularly those of winning clubs.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2008, 11:51 PM
I'm not asking the press to "hector" (heckle?) them. I'm asking why basic questions are not asked, that are asked to other teams by their beats, particularly those of winning clubs.

The word is "hector." And you're just seeing in other clubs' press what you want to see.

dougdirt
04-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Probably because even the guys that write in Cincinnati know that we are talking about less than 2 weeks worth of games here.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2008, 11:54 PM
Probably because even the guys that write in Cincinnati know that we are talking about less than 2 weeks worth of games here.

To be fair, Cincy writers suck even when they're 20 games out in the middle of July. I just think there's a cause-and-effect relationship Wheelhouse is claiming for the press toward a team that largely doesn't exist.

Wheelhouse
04-14-2008, 12:08 AM
The word is "hector." And you're just seeing in other clubs' press what you want to see.

There you go again with the dime-store psychoanalysis of the poster... Come on, I'm imagining the tough questioning the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Orioles, Red Sox,and other teams face when playing badly? Don't think so...

WVRedsFan
04-14-2008, 12:39 AM
If I had to guess, I'd picture the unwritten rule to be more like this: If your work endlessly questions the manager's decisions and the GM's decisions, you'll be the reporter that reads about personnel decisions in news releases, rather than the one who gets hints dropped about them before they happen. ;)

Bingo! You win the prize.

True story. A reporter I know who shall not be named has been notorious for being critical of NASCAR. A couple of years ago, he found he couldn't even get a peep from anyone official. He was just shut off. He finally got back in the good graces, but it was a lesson well learned. You have to have the tools to do your job. Of course, the Cincy press is the other extreme. They haven't really held the Reds' feet to the fire in a long time.

Jpup
04-14-2008, 12:43 AM
Come on. This isn't a question of effort or guts. Seriously--I don't know what you're asking for, really, but I know that in the end this is just a ill-proportioned and overall bad team, no different from the last eight years. No amount of hectoring from the press is going to change that.

What is Boston's record? 7-6? I guess they are a bad team too. The Yankees are 6-7, the Dodgers and Rockies are 5-7, Cleveland is 5-7.

The sky is falling.:confused:

AtomicDumpling
04-14-2008, 01:15 AM
The job of the reporters is to report the news. They don't have the slightest effect on how the team is operated.

I don't think any team in any sport makes their decisions because of input from the reporters covering the team.

Wayne Krivsky is not going to demote Encarnacion because John Fay confronted him with a tough question about EE's lack of production. Pressure from the reporters is not going to cause the Reds to make a move they otherwise wouldn't make.

I know people are mad and would like some changes to make them feel better. I don't think getting swept by the Pirates in a 3 game series in April means it is time to overreact and make major moves. Heck, three days ago we were all feeling pretty good about the Reds. Now some people want to start throwing players under the bus already.

Chip R
04-14-2008, 01:24 AM
There you go again with the dime-store psychoanalysis of the poster... Come on, I'm imagining the tough questioning the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Orioles, Red Sox,and other teams face when playing badly? Don't think so...


Give us some examples on how tougher the Eastern media is on their teams than ours are on the Reds. It shouldn't be too difficult to find since the Orioles have stunk for the past several years and the Yankees have had stretches over the past several years where they have played poorly. Of course the NY media isn't a very good comparison since there's several newspapers, radio stations and TV stations all competing against one another for stories. Just limit it to Baltimore and Philly. Let's see how their media handles tough stretches by the Orioles and Phillies.

jmcclain19
04-14-2008, 02:24 AM
The Cincy media was downright criminal in how little information they had about what was going on with the ownership change. Your telling me with all the radio, tv stations & two newspapers in town not one single person sniffed out who was going to be the new owner (or who could have been) until the official announcement was made?

I could name off five groups right now of potential Cubs buyers. And I haven't even been following the story.

I would have been embarrassed to be a part of the Cincy media with that nonsense. But its a microcosm of how bad the market is overall. It's a stepping stone market and anyone with any talent moves on rather quickly.

Wheelhouse
04-14-2008, 02:50 AM
Give us some examples on how tougher the Eastern media is on their teams than ours are on the Reds. It shouldn't be too difficult to find since the Orioles have stunk for the past several years and the Yankees have had stretches over the past several years where they have played poorly. Of course the NY media isn't a very good comparison since there's several newspapers, radio stations and TV stations all competing against one another for stories. Just limit it to Baltimore and Philly. Let's see how their media handles tough stretches by the Orioles and Phillies.

I mean, how many do you want? This is on the Yankees page of the NY Post: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04132008/sports/yankees/joe_blew_it__106375.htm

David Wright's fielding: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04132008/sports/mets/wrights_wrong_in_the_field_106368.htm

That's just the New York Post tomorrow and there were two more articles in the same paper that questioned teams. I'm not saying I go for the New York hysteria, but in a way I prefer it to NO challenges, NO questions when performance is poor.

WVRedsFan
04-14-2008, 03:00 AM
The Cincy media was downright criminal in how little information they had about what was going on with the ownership change. Your telling me with all the radio, tv stations & two newspapers in town not one single person sniffed out who was going to be the new owner (or who could have been) until the official announcement was made?

I could name off five groups right now of potential Cubs buyers. And I haven't even been following the story.

I would have been embarrassed to be a part of the Cincy media with that nonsense. But its a microcosm of how bad the market is overall. It's a stepping stone market and anyone with any talent moves on rather quickly.

One thing that has to be taken into consideration is the conservative nature of the city where our beloved team resides. Reporter that are too nosey probaby don't get much information. And, like on this board, any criticism or negativity toward the Reds is considered blasphemy. Unfortunately, in a conservative society (and I'm pretty conservative myself), the third estate is looked upon as a boil on the behind and anyone who tries to "bring out the dirt," whether it's dirty or not, is considered either a malcontent or just sticking their nose in where it does not belong.

Yep, it's not just in Cincy, but I get the feeling that these guys who work here worry more about what ownership thinks than reporting what is going on. That's really sad. The press, with all the attacks from those in power, is a paper tiger these days and that's not only sad, but unfortunate.

lollipopcurve
04-14-2008, 07:10 AM
like on this board, any criticism or negativity toward the Reds is considered blasphemy.

You are talking about Redszone?

Don't forget about that blasphemer, M. Brennaman, still blaspheming away.

Like sports fans anywhere when their team is losing, Reds fans are a miserable lot.

Hap
04-14-2008, 09:25 AM
If I were a Reds writer, I would at least point out how Phillips dropping the pivot and not turning the double play opened the door for four runs.

Falls City Beer
04-14-2008, 09:38 AM
The Cincy media could be rabid as a craphouse bat; it's not going to impact the team, either the players or the FO.

Chip R
04-14-2008, 10:01 AM
I mean, how many do you want? This is on the Yankees page of the NY Post: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04132008/sports/yankees/joe_blew_it__106375.htm

David Wright's fielding: http://www.nypost.com/seven/04132008/sports/mets/wrights_wrong_in_the_field_106368.htm

That's just the New York Post tomorrow and there were two more articles in the same paper that questioned teams. I'm not saying I go for the New York hysteria, but in a way I prefer it to NO challenges, NO questions when performance is poor.


Besides the NY media. As I said, that's a different animal.

Team Clark
04-14-2008, 10:02 AM
The Cincy media could be rabid as a craphouse bat; it's not going to impact the team, either the players or the FO.

I agree. The "team" is not playing to make the media happy. IMO, there are only two players who are highly sensitive to media scrutiny and they seem to end up with good numbers every year.

wheels
04-14-2008, 10:04 AM
The Cincy media could be rabid as a craphouse bat; it's not going to impact the team, either the players or the FO.

Lots of bats and crap this morning.....

What happened to you over the weekend?:lol:

flyer85
04-14-2008, 10:22 AM
MLB is such an easy game ... these guys could all be really good if they just wanted it bad enough.

REDREAD
04-14-2008, 10:35 AM
Is there an unwritten rule that if you ask tough questions you'll be punished by restricted access to the team or something of the like? It's just really disturbing as a fan--and it looks like complacency.


Well, I listened to most of the Pirate series on the radio this weekend, and Marty is in mid-season form, asking the tough questions. :lol:

I really cracked up near the end of game two when Marty was talking about what to do in game 3 to "Fix" things. Marty suggested benching Patterson, EdE, and Dunn. He said put Hopper in CF and Freel at 3b.. Brantley then asked him who would play LF.. That actually got a moment of silence from Marty before he realized that his "plan" was flawed. :lol:

In all seriousness, the writers really need to be rosy in the early part of the year, because most fans want to have hope now. Look at the reception some of the "pessemists" got in the game threads.

I have to agree with Falls City that this team, while improved from last year, still has plenty of holes. I think they end up slightly below 500, unless changes are made.

The overall offense and defense is very weak. The bullpen is starting to show some weakness as well. We have to expect that the young pitchers will have outings like Ceuto had yesterday where he gives up a big inning. That's just part of the learning process.

If we don't win the Harang-Dempster matchup vs the Cubs, I think we stand a good chance of getting swept by the Cubs, as the other other matchups do not favor us at all (Zambrano, and a Lefty starter)..

westofyou
04-14-2008, 11:25 AM
MLB is such an easy game ... these guys could all be really good if they just wanted it bad enough.

And they'll only want it enough if you embarrass them in a public forum (the press) otherwise they'll never know if they are experiencing a bad stretch, because off the field they never think about baseball or their performance at all.

flyer85
04-14-2008, 11:27 AM
because off the field they never think about baseball or their performance at all.... they just drink beer and play video games.

westofyou
04-14-2008, 11:31 AM
... they just drink beer and play video games.

And seek advice from the bench jockeys yelling "Yoooze Stink....."

blumj
04-14-2008, 11:33 AM
You have to boo them, too. That always helps.

Chip R
04-14-2008, 12:22 PM
You have to boo them, too. That always helps.


But that makes them feel small.

flyer85
04-14-2008, 12:24 PM
But that makes them feel small.not if they return the proper salute.

Wheelhouse
04-14-2008, 01:16 PM
I agree. The "team" is not playing to make the media happy. IMO, there are only two players who are highly sensitive to media scrutiny and they seem to end up with good numbers every year.

It's not about the team playing to make the media happy. The NY media at least creates a level of intensity where if you go into Pittsburgh, and it's raining with 5 people in the stadium, you will be called out in public as a team if you serve up three stinkers the way the Reds did. I like that as a fan. That type of heavy scrutiny is good. Also, it's the only form of entertainment when the team fails to provide any. And at the bottom of all this, a baseball team must entertain. It may be my New York point-of-view, but there it is.

BCubb2003
04-14-2008, 01:54 PM
I agree with all of you. Heh. The New York and Boston media have been goading their teams since DiMaggio and Williams. The back-of-the-tabloid frenzy is notorious, and Steinbrenner used to play to that, and play his favorite writers off against players who were in his doghouse. I'm not sure Cincinnati wants newspaper reporters to go all Bill Cunningham on the team, or to make Adam Dunn's mother cry, but an independent streak would be healthy, especially if it's thoughtful and well-researched, like John Erardi's work. C. Trent has an independent mind and a goofy, doesn't-take-himself-seriously approach that I like. The beat reporters by the nature of their jobs are going to want to get along with the people they see each day, and the veteran columnists are going to have a back-in-the-day approach to things. It would be good to have an independent voice asking well-founded challenging questions.

gm
04-14-2008, 06:34 PM
I really cracked up near the end of game two when Marty was talking about what to do in game 3 to "Fix" things. Marty suggested benching Patterson, EdE, and Dunn. He said put Hopper in CF and Freel at 3b.. Brantley then asked him who would play LF.. That actually got a moment of silence from Marty before he realized that his "plan" was flawed. :lol:

<psssst> "hey Marty, how about Joey Votto?"

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 07:04 PM
There you go again with the dime-store psychoanalysis of the poster... Come on, I'm imagining the tough questioning the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Orioles, Red Sox,and other teams face when playing badly? Don't think so...

What tough questions could possibly be asked in Baltimore?

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 07:14 PM
Give us some examples on how tougher the Eastern media is on their teams than ours are on the Reds. It shouldn't be too difficult to find since the Orioles have stunk for the past several years and the Yankees have had stretches over the past several years where they have played poorly. Of course the NY media isn't a very good comparison since there's several newspapers, radio stations and TV stations all competing against one another for stories. Just limit it to Baltimore and Philly. Let's see how their media handles tough stretches by the Orioles and Phillies.

The Phillies are, and always will be, bums in the view of the Philly media. Doesn't matter if they are winning or losing, they are always bums. Having lived in that town for 2+ years, I was amazed at how brutal the Philly media and the Philly fans were for all their sports teams especially when the team(s) were winning. Ryan Howard hit 58 HR 2 years ago, yet he was criticized for not hitting 60 or 61. Jimmy Rollins won the MVP last year, and the Philly media said he was at best the 3rd best player on the team. Why Brad Lidge would want anything to do with Philly I'll never know, but he's now their closer, and I fully expect him to be institutionalized when he blows saves and the Phillies Phans want to crucify him.

This July 30th will be the 2 year anniversary of the Phillies Phans and media running Bobby Abreu out of town, and getting absolutely nothing of value in return. Just think of what the Phillies could have been last year or this year with Bobby Abreu. I fully expect the Philles Phans and media to run Chase Utley and Ryan Howard out of town within the next 5 years, b/c it would be such a Philly thing to do.

They ran Abreu out of town. Then ran Iverson out of town. They're in the process of running McNabb out of town. And I'm sure there's some hockey player they've either run out of town recently, or are in the process of running out of town.

westofyou
04-14-2008, 07:22 PM
And I'm sure there's some hockey player they've either run out of town recently, or are in the process of running out of town.
http://www.phillymag.com/blogs/philly/wp-content/uploads/Philly/1107DailyExaminer/lindros.jpg

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 07:32 PM
http://www.phillymag.com/blogs/philly/wp-content/uploads/Philly/1107DailyExaminer/lindros.jpg

I wouldn't consider Lindros recent.

But yeah, they did a number on him, too.



The best example I can think of is the fact they hated the best 3B to ever play, Michael Jack Schmidt. Absolutely hated him, and still hate him. To a lesser extent, it's exactly how we treat Dunn and Griffey in Cincinnati.