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Benihana
04-14-2008, 03:15 PM
Braves Hurting For Pitching

With Tom Glavine ailing and the fifth starter spot an open audition, the Braves are facing a starting pitching shortage. The bullpen could use a hand as well, but one thing at a time.

Healthy, possibly available free agent starters include Roger Clemens, Russ Ortiz, Horacio Ramirez, Jeff Weaver, and David Wells. Obviously they all have warts - age, baggage, ineffectiveness. But if one of them can eat innings at a 4.50 ERA, it might make sense.

How about acquiring a starter via trade? Here are some names to ponder: Daniel Cabrera, Joe Blanton, Jason Marquis, Matt Morris, Dave Bush, Matt Belisle, Vicente Padilla, Robinson Tejeda, Jeremy Sowers, Kei Igawa, Kyle Snyder, and Kevin Correia. This list works for other clubs light on pitching, the Tigers for example.


www.mlbtraderumors.com
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I wouldn't mind revisiting the Bronson Arroyo idea with them. Arroyo, Alex Gonzalez and Juan Francisco for JoJo Reyes and Yunel Escobar? Done and done.

Replace Arroyo with Belisle in the rotation and I don't think you would lose all that much, while gaining a considerable amount of payflex. Replace Fogg with Reyes in the rotation and I think you gain a lot, especially for the long term.

Meanwhile, Escobar would solve the Reds problem at SS for the long term. Keppinger could then play 1B against lefties and play 3B against righties, at least until EdE straightens himself out. That would solve the Reds problems against lefties. Additionally, Keppinger now provides a long term insurance plan in case Edwin never gets himself straightened out.

Finally, shedding the Arroyo and Gonzalez contracts puts the Reds over the top in terms of payflex so that they can sign Adam Dunn to a four year, $60 million contract. It might even leave enough so that they could keep Corey Patterson for another couple of years if he maintains his current production level.

The Bravos get a guy they've liked for a while at a position where they are currently in great need. They get Gonzalez to play SS in Escobar's place, and they get a nice prospect in Francisco who is having an impressive start in Sarasota.

OnBaseMachine
04-14-2008, 03:16 PM
No way they trade Escobar now that Renteria is gone.

Matt700wlw
04-14-2008, 03:17 PM
What would they give the Reds to take Belisle back?

*BaseClogger*
04-14-2008, 03:17 PM
Except Escobar is now their starting SS. I don't believe the Braves really have anything in excess to give up, so I don't think they fit as a trading partner for Bronson...

Benihana
04-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Except Escobar is now their starting SS. I don't believe the Braves really have anything in excess to give up, so I don't think they fit as a trading partner for Bronson...

So include Gonzalez in the deal. Pay his salary if you have to.

flyer85
04-14-2008, 03:33 PM
I'd send them Arroyo for Reyes and Lillibridge, they could throw in Pena as well.

REDREAD
04-14-2008, 03:39 PM
I don't know if the Braves are really going for it this year or not. I don't follow them that much. I will assume they are.

Perhaps it might be a little more realistic to target Reyes alone, since as others said Escobar is the starting shortstop, and I really doubt they'll want to downgrade SS with Gonzo.

Would the Braves do Arroyo for Reyes straight up? If they were willing to sacrifice a little bit of the future for now, I think that is reasonable from their point of view.
Does it make sense for the Reds? I'm not so sure. We can trumpet the payflex all we want but would the Reds use it wisely. Is it smart to trade Arroyo for a prospect that might have a ceiling of Arroyo? I don't know a whole lot about Reyes, other than he is a lefty with a good K rate that is projected as a #3 starter by some. If the Reds' timeline for contention is next year, it might be wiser to hold on to Arroyo.

Of course, the Braves might not want to take on Arroyo's salary over the next two years. They've become much more fiscally conservative.

Spitball
04-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Why trade away starting pitching? Depth at that position is a blessing. Youthful inexperience, injuries, ineffectiveness...depth can become a desperate need in a blink.

Benihana
04-14-2008, 03:46 PM
Why trade away starting pitching? Depth at that position is a blessing. Youthful inexperience, injuries, ineffectiveness...depth can become a desperate need in a blink.

Because this team has other big holes to fill as well.

Because at least in my proposed deal (whether Atlanta would do it or not is another story) you get starting pitching back, as well as a great young ML-ready SS for the next five years.

JoJo Reyes is a major league ready lefty who could immediately replace Fogg in the rotation. I honestly believe replacing Arroyo with Belisle would be a virtual wash at this point, but the youth factor and money saved would make it a big win.

Phhhl
04-14-2008, 03:46 PM
Isn't Brent Lillibridge one of the better shortstop prospects in all of baseball? I could see the Braves willing to part with Escobar for the right arm. Probably not for this deal, though.

flyer85
04-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Isn't Brent Lillibridge one of the better shortstop prospects in all of baseball? I could see the Braves willing to part with Escobar for the right arm. Probably not for this deal, though.I think the Braves like Escobar better at SS, there was talk of moving Lillibridge to CF although with his lack of power and good OBP skills his bat would play much better at SS.

Benihana
04-14-2008, 03:50 PM
I'd send them Arroyo for Reyes and Lillibridge, they could throw in Pena as well.

I don't know how much I love Lillibridge and his Stubbs-esque .750 OPS last year in AA/AAA at age 23. Maybe the Braves do however, and maybe that would make them more likely to move Escobar. Gonzalez could man SS for them until the kid is ready.

15fan
04-14-2008, 03:53 PM
I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to trade away pitching.

And the Braves should have to pay a premium for anything they get via trade. A big premium.

Just because they're the Braves.

Benihana
04-14-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm just saying, this would leave us with a rotation of:

Harang R
Cueto R
Volquez R
Belisle R
Reyes L

and we would have Fogg as a spot starter/long relief guy, with Bailey and Maloney still toiling away at AAA. I still think that would be a nice amount of depth for the rotation.

RedsManRick
04-14-2008, 04:58 PM
I'd take Brent Lillibridge.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/brent-lillibridge.shtml

Jpup
04-14-2008, 05:04 PM
At this point, while I like Arroyo, I would trade him ASAP. He should have been traded before he signed that new deal. Hind sight is 20/20.

Reds1
04-14-2008, 05:38 PM
Not sure I agree with folks. i wouldn't trade away Arroyo now. Then you'd have Harang 2 rookies, Fogg, and maybe another young prospect. You know what you get with Arroyo. Innings eater that keeps you in games.

cincrazy
04-14-2008, 05:43 PM
I'd trade Arroyo in a heartbeat for Yunel Escobar. But there's no way on this earth the Braves will ever trade that kid. He's going to be a superstar.

Spitball
04-14-2008, 11:07 PM
Because this team has other big holes to fill as well.

Because at least in my proposed deal (whether Atlanta would do it or not is another story) you get starting pitching back, as well as a great young ML-ready SS for the next five years.

JoJo Reyes is a major league ready lefty who could immediately replace Fogg in the rotation. I honestly believe replacing Arroyo with Belisle would be a virtual wash at this point, but the youth factor and money saved would make it a big win.

Jo Jo Reyes has a chance to be a bottom of the rotation pitcher. I'm talking about just a chance. He is probably going to wash out as a middle reliever. It is hard to develop starting pitchers and there are no promises with this guy. Arroyo is for certain a number four and possibly a number three. After years of observing way too many starting prospects fail, I think it is pure foolishness to give up a 200 inning/4.50 ERA pitcher for the promise of someone who might, at best, achieve the same status. In all likelyhood, anyone advocating trading Arroyo for a JoJo Reyes is just reacting in frustration to his slow start. That is probably a poor strategy for building a winning team.

cincyinco
04-15-2008, 12:24 AM
Would it be worth it from a D standpoint? Getting EE off the field until he gets his head straight. Or try him as the righty portion of the platoon for 1B.. I dunno. Is Kepp's bat enough for 3rd? I don't know. Does Yunel help us up the middle? I think its pretty damn impressive to have him, Phillips, and Patterson up the middle on Defense. I don't know if Yunel is really as good as his debut or his start this season, but I'm sure his bat would play up a bit in GAB.

Would the braves value Homer Bailey more instead of Arroyo? Less contract for them to take on? More control over a younger player? I dont know, not familiar with their new GM, Wren(isn't it? formerly of BAL). Could they use Hatte at all(I know they got Tex)?

Benihana
04-15-2008, 09:48 AM
Jo Jo Reyes has a chance to be a bottom of the rotation pitcher. I'm talking about just a chance. He is probably going to wash out as a middle reliever. It is hard to develop starting pitchers and there are no promises with this guy. Arroyo is for certain a number four and possibly a number three. After years of observing way too many starting prospects fail, I think it is pure foolishness to give up a 200 inning/4.50 ERA pitcher for the promise of someone who might, at best, achieve the same status. In all likelyhood, anyone advocating trading Arroyo for a JoJo Reyes is just reacting in frustration to his slow start. That is probably a poor strategy for building a winning team.

You may be the only person on the board that wouldn't trade Arroyo for Reyes and Escobar. However, I wouldn't do it straight up for Reyes either.

bucksfan2
04-15-2008, 10:11 AM
I'd trade Arroyo in a heartbeat for Yunel Escobar. But there's no way on this earth the Braves will ever trade that kid. He's going to be a superstar.

I actually think the reds balked at that trade at the trade deadline last season.

I think we often underestimate the demand and the value of legit starting pitching. Arroyo isn't great but he is every bit as good and probably better than Joe Blanton and Beane held out for a kings ransom for him this offseason.