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View Full Version : Users try to save Windows XP



Chip R
04-14-2008, 06:09 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080414/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_save_xp

KronoRed
04-14-2008, 06:22 PM
I hope they are successful, but MS rarely likes to admit defeat

Highlifeman21
04-14-2008, 07:15 PM
XP should be saved.

Vista is teh suck.

SirFelixCat
04-14-2008, 08:13 PM
XP should be saved.

Vista is teh suck.

I could not disagree more. I have used Vista 64-bit since November and I absolutely love it. Zero issues...why do you hate it?

KittyDuran
04-14-2008, 08:14 PM
I want to buy a Dell laptop - but most of their Home and Home Business lines only come with the Vista option. If you go with with the Small Business line you get a choice of using Windows XP. Actually, that's fine but most of Dell's specials via the mail are for Inspiron which (from what I could find) only carries Vista. So I'll probably end up with a Vostro - which still isn't bad.

GoReds33
04-14-2008, 08:31 PM
I could not disagree more. I have used Vista 64-bit since November and I absolutely love it. Zero issues...why do you hate it?Vista can bog down your computer, give you stupid popups, and stuff like that. I think MS wanted Vista to be perfect, and they overshot it. They need something simple to use.

KittyDuran
04-14-2008, 08:47 PM
Doesn't Vista need more memory than Windows XP to really run well? I knew of some people who got the "bargins" on Black Friday with only standard memory with Vista and the computers were sluggish and they ended up having to buy more memory - so the "bargin" wasn't a bargin anymore.

SirFelixCat
04-14-2008, 08:52 PM
Vista can bog down your computer, give you stupid popups, and stuff like that. I think MS wanted Vista to be perfect, and they overshot it. They need something simple to use.

The bogging down I'll address below. The stupid popups are UAC and that can be turned off easily. I love Vista. :shrug:


Doesn't Vista need more memory than Windows XP to really run well? I knew of some people who got the "bargins" on Black Friday with only standard memory with Vista and the computers were sluggish and they ended up having to buy more memory - so the "bargin" wasn't a bargin anymore.

Yes, this is very much true, Kitty. This is one of the reasons that if you're going to go w/ Vista, it behooves you to go with the 64-bit version as opposed the the 'normal' 32-bit version. The 64-bit does not limit the amount of RAM that your computer can use/see. The standard 32-bit operating system (whether it be Vista or XP) caps the amount of RAM it can use at @ 2.5Gig.

The 64-bit versions have no cap, for instance, I'm using 8Gig of RAM. While yes, it's overkill for the average user, RAM is dirt cheap right now and why now? :)

GoReds33
04-14-2008, 08:58 PM
The bogging down I'll address below. The stupid popups are UAC and that can be turned off easily. I love Vista. :shrug:



Yes, this is very much true, Kitty. This is one of the reasons that if you're going to go w/ Vista, it behooves you to go with the 64-bit version as opposed the the 'normal' 32-bit version. The 64-bit does not limit the amount of RAM that your computer can use/see. The standard 32-bit operating system (whether it be Vista or XP) caps the amount of RAM it can use at @ 2.5Gig.

The 64-bit versions have no cap, for instance, I'm using 8Gig of RAM. While yes, it's overkill for the average user, RAM is dirt cheap right now and why now? :)I see what you're saying, but why not sell both? There are so many people/companies that can't support Vista. They would rather stick with something that is simple, and that requires less memory. Why can't they just sell both until 2010?

pahster
04-14-2008, 09:37 PM
I want to buy a Dell laptop - but most of their Home and Home Business lines only come with the Vista option. If you go with with the Small Business line you get a choice of using Windows XP. Actually, that's fine but most of Dell's specials via the mail are for Inspiron which (from what I could find) only carries Vista. So I'll probably end up with a Vostro - which still isn't bad.

I've got a Vostro. It's fairly nice.

Vista's a huge memory hog. No thanks.

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2008, 01:11 AM
A good friend of mine has been using Vista since well before the consumer edition was initially offered. I didn't like it the first time I used it, still don't like it now.

I agree with most of the opinions on here -- Vista is the epitome of bloatware. Worse yet -- it continues to be buggy when interacting with various bits of legacy technology and software.

I've already decided, my tax refund money is going towards a new Macbook Pro to replace my aging Inspiron.

KronoRed
04-15-2008, 02:13 AM
I like XP 64bit felix, works just fine, can have as much memory as I want and consumes a LOT less resources then Vista.

MS actually got it right with XP, there's a reason it lasted 6 years and Vista's successor is due in half that time.

LoganBuck
04-15-2008, 07:30 AM
XP rules. My wife is taking online courses this summer for continuing education. They recommend that we update to Vista before using some of the software she needs for the class. I will not upgrade so that she can use a program for two weeks. My brother runs a Vista machine, and while he likes it he preferred the XP. My wife will use his computer.

Highlifeman21
04-15-2008, 11:39 AM
I could not disagree more. I have used Vista 64-bit since November and I absolutely love it. Zero issues...why do you hate it?

I don't think I've used the 64-bit Vista, I think I've only used a 32-bit version.

We weren't able to use any of our tournament software with Vista, we had print driver issues, and the Dell support we had on our systems couldn't fix it. We also initially had problems with our Point of Sale programs, and our credit card server.

Basically, none of the programs worked with Vista, even after we requested Vista versions from the software vendors.

westofyou
04-15-2008, 11:57 AM
XP is ok... firm on my system... Ubuntu is free though.

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 12:01 PM
I have two computers running XP without any problems, and I have a laptop running Vista without any problems.

If you buy a modern computer today you shouldn't have any problems with Vista. Most of the people that are having problems with Vista are using older, less powerful computers that can't handle the more advanced operating system.

Vista is more secure, has a few neat bells and whistles, and can handle some of the latest hardware components that XP can't. Other than those things there really is very little difference between Vista and XP from the user's perspective. There is no need to buy an upgrade from XP to Vista. Just stick with XP until you get a new computer.

When you are ready for a new computer, the best thing to do is buy the computer components and assemble them yourself. You will get a much better computer for a much lower price. It is very easy to do because even I have done it many times myself.

:thumbup:

OldRightHander
04-15-2008, 12:48 PM
When you are ready for a new computer, the best thing to do is buy a Mac. You will get a much better computer for your money. It is very easy to do because even I have done it many times myself.
:thumbup:

Fixed that for you. ;)

pedro
04-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Fixed that for you. ;)

Not a big fan of the Mac myself.

westofyou
04-15-2008, 12:57 PM
Not a big fan of the Mac myself.

I like the way computers work... Mac doesn't allow me to play with them, and they cost an arm and a leg too.

KronoRed
04-15-2008, 01:07 PM
But...they are shiny! ;)

Best of both worlds is an altered version of OSx to play around with on any computer.

pedro
04-15-2008, 01:17 PM
I don't want to have to learn/use two operating systems and Mac's are not used in the business world outside of a few niche markets.

HBP
04-15-2008, 01:29 PM
But...they are shiny! ;)

Best of both worlds is an altered version of OSx to play around with on any computer.

Or run Boot Camp for Windows on the Mac. I've never owned an Apple computer but I'm considering it because of Vista.

*BaseClogger*
04-15-2008, 01:32 PM
So... Vista is fine as long as you bought a new computer, right?

KronoRed
04-15-2008, 01:34 PM
So... Vista is fine as long as you bought a new computer, right?

Maybe, but the laptop I bought that is "Vista ready" with 1gig of ram begs to differ.

westofyou
04-15-2008, 01:42 PM
Or run Boot Camp for Windows on the Mac. I've never owned an Apple computer but I'm considering it because of Vista.

Then consider Ubuntu... it's free.. that's F-R-E-E

Can't game on it though.

WMR
04-15-2008, 02:04 PM
Question for MAC users: How well do Macs run XP and windows-based software? How much software/games can they actually run? I'd like to own a mac, but I'd still like my pc-related stuff...

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 02:18 PM
Underneath the hood a Mac and a PC are identical.

The only differences between a PC and a Mac are the shiny case, the trendy marketing tactics and the price tag.

If you are happy paying extra for a computer that only runs about 15% of the available software then buy a Mac.

After you buy that Mac you can buy a Boze Wave radio, a Dyson Cyclone vacuum cleaner, a Sharper Image Ionic Breeze air purifier and whatever other overpriced, overhyped gimmick gadgets you can get your hands on. There are always people lining up to pay extra for an inferior product.

HBP
04-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Question for MAC users: How well do Macs run XP and windows-based software? How much software/games can they actually run? I'd like to own a mac, but I'd still like my pc-related stuff...

From my understanding, with Boot Camp Xp would run on it just like it would on a Dell, HP, whatever. In fact, search around and you'll see some reviews of Windows programs on Macs.

HBP
04-15-2008, 02:47 PM
Then consider Ubuntu... it's free.. that's F-R-E-E

Can't game on it though.

I tried it a year ago and there were some things I liked. After I spent hours just to get my wireless to work and for it to display a widescreen resolution, I ditched it. It's probably better now and I like how they have an upgrade cycle of six months.

Honestly though (not that I condone or promote it), it's not that hard to get any software free through a torrent. Being a student also helps as I bought at least three legit versions of XP and Office for about $15 each.

westofyou
04-15-2008, 03:06 PM
I tried it a year ago and there were some things I liked. After I spent hours just to get my wireless to work and for it to display a widescreen resolution, I ditched it. It's probably better now and I like how they have an upgrade cycle of six months.

Honestly though (not that I condone or promote it), it's not that hard to get any software free through a torrent. Being a student also helps as I bought at least three legit versions of XP and Office for about $15 each.
It's a bit better this term than last from what I can tell (and have heard).. I agree about the discounts, as a developer I'm married to MS.. but I do like to know what else is out there business wise.. fact is not much in the mac world and nothing that I can't get elsewhere.

My real gripe is with Jobs and his approach to the product as an cultural icon/image first over being a functional tool for the proletariat.

Plus I lived in the rise and the fall of Apple and I know more crap about them than I care to.

vaticanplum
04-15-2008, 03:11 PM
From an editing standpoint Vista is fantastico, the Word program is so nifty once you get used to it. Word causes us so many problems at work, some people have automatic updates from it and some don't, so a document will literally vary from computer to computer which makes my job a living hell. Of course we're all still on Word 2003 so I doubt we're going to make the leap to Vista anytime soon.

Dracodave
04-15-2008, 03:21 PM
Personal, I would be glad if they kept XP alive. I've had both working experience (Fixing Two botched Vista machines) and personal experience on Vista. Theres really no middle road with it, it either is running fine or it's a horrid piece of junk. Most people don't understand the "tech jargin" of the RAM and why its almost nessacary to get well over the recommandations. I've got a XP running 512mb, runs beautifully...I'll upgrade that to 1 gig later if not more.

The only thing I really dislike about Vista is they hide the few things I use frequentally (My Computer, Run etc) on the Home version...which is fine, I use the keycommands for both anyhow (For those that dont know the Windows Key+R = Run. WK+E= Explorer). That was upsetting when fixing a Vista machine trying to obtain a IP address from a network, when the Home box CAN NOT join Domains.

SirFelixCat
04-15-2008, 03:51 PM
So... Vista is fine as long as you bought a new computer, right?

The general consensus is that you should have a minimum of 2Gig of RAM using Vista. Other than that, yes, Vista is the way to go imo.

*BaseClogger*
04-15-2008, 04:29 PM
2046 MB = 2.046 Gig of RAM, correct?

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 04:33 PM
The general consensus is that you should have a minimum of 2Gig of RAM using Vista. Other than that, yes, Vista is the way to go imo.

RAM is so dirt cheap right now it just doesn't make sense not to get 4GB or more. Windows can't really use all of it right now but some other programs can.

2GB of premium DDR2 RAM is only $45. It is so easy to install even my dad can do it. :rolleyes:

OldRightHander
04-15-2008, 05:36 PM
RAM is so dirt cheap right now it just doesn't make sense not to get 4GB or more. Windows can't really use all of it right now but some other programs can.

2GB of premium DDR2 RAM is only $45. It is so easy to install even my dad can do it. :rolleyes:

It doesn't seem like that long ago when 256 mb cost more than that. Of course that was when 256 was a lot of RAM.

For the record, I'm pretty much a Mac person, but I do own both. My computer at home is a Mac and I have a cheap PC laptop that I take on the road just for very basic stuff, bidding on internet load boards and using efax. The PC runs Vista but I only use it for web browsing, email, and faxing. I haven't noticed any glaring problems, other than the usual things that irritate me about Windows in general. I have 1.5 gb and it seems to do fine with what I use it for. The OS does seem to hog more memory than the Mac OS though. When I was doing office work I used XP and that was three years ago. That was the last time I had used a PC, so when I picked this one up a couple months ago, there was a definite adjustment. But from my experience, Vista seems to work ok for basic things. I haven't tried any really complicated programs on it and I'm probably not going to either since I'm about one run to Texas away from getting a new Macbook and giving this one to a relative.

ochre
04-15-2008, 05:37 PM
ubuntu ftw!

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2008, 06:31 PM
When you are ready for a new computer, the best thing to do is buy the computer components and assemble them yourself. You will get a much better computer for a much lower price. It is very easy to do because even I have done it many times myself.

I can safely say that there are few things that I'd find LESS enjoyable than attempting to assemble a computer myself.

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 07:08 PM
I can safely say that there are few things that I'd find LESS enjoyable than attempting to assemble a computer myself.

Thanks for the information. I am not surprised though.

HBP
04-15-2008, 07:09 PM
My real gripe is with Jobs and his approach to the product as an cultural icon/image first over being a functional tool for the proletariat.


I see your point. One thing that irks me is that they don't upgrade their hardware near as fast as other manufacturers so that means less cost for them while the consumer buys older hardware.

dougdirt
04-15-2008, 07:40 PM
RAM is so dirt cheap right now it just doesn't make sense not to get 4GB or more. Windows can't really use all of it right now but some other programs can.

2GB of premium DDR2 RAM is only $45. It is so easy to install even my dad can do it. :rolleyes:

Where are you finding that deal at?

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 07:56 PM
Where are you finding that deal at?

Patriot Dual Channel 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 1024MB) for $39.99 at Tiger Direct.

dougdirt
04-15-2008, 07:59 PM
Patriot Dual Channel 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 1024MB) for $39.99 at Tiger Direct.

Should have looked there first, they are generally where I buy all of my computer stuff at... Thanks.

OldRightHander
04-15-2008, 08:55 PM
From my understanding, with Boot Camp Xp would run on it just like it would on a Dell, HP, whatever. In fact, search around and you'll see some reviews of Windows programs on Macs.

It does run pretty much as well as it does on a PC. I was running XP on Boot Camp for a while, but eventually I got rid of it so I could have more hard drive space for some new Mac software I got.

Anyway, to each his own, but I just prefer the Mac OS to Windows, and I'm familiar enough with both.

KronoRed
04-15-2008, 09:53 PM
I can safely say that there are few things that I'd find LESS enjoyable than attempting to assemble a computer myself.

Wow, I love doing it, nothing better IMO then to build it yourself, it's zen like :D

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the information. I am not surprised though.

Hey, if that's your thing, more power to you. I don't enjoy anything with the words "some assembly required."

Plus, in this era of wireless-everything, I don't see the point to owning a desktop system unless you have a serious need for computational power. For most casual and business use, the ability to move beyond the confines of your desk/office outweighs any other considerations IMO.

AtomicDumpling
04-15-2008, 10:51 PM
Hey, if that's your thing, more power to you. I don't enjoy anything with the words "some assembly required."

Plus, in this era of wireless-everything, I don't see the point to owning a desktop system unless you have a serious need for computational power. For most casual and business use, the ability to move beyond the confines of your desk/office outweighs any other considerations IMO.

Yeah, it would be hard to live without a laptop. I use mine all the time to run my websites and check the Internet a hundred times a day.

But I love my desktop too. When I am doing some serious database work I need my giant monitor and some desk space to spread out my papers while I work. I don't play games that much lately, but a desktop kicks the crap out of a laptop for gaming.

I guess laptops are great for casual computing, but you need a powerful desktop for the serious stuff. It all depends on what you use the computer for.

KronoRed
04-15-2008, 10:57 PM
Any laptop that can do decent gaming is going to be power hungry and hence you will not be so mobile.

Reds4Life
04-16-2008, 06:06 PM
My current laptop has Vista, and I haven't had any issues. I do have 2GB of ram in it though. I looked at Mac's before I purchased my current laptop, after I looked at the prices they wanted I laughed and walked away.

redsrule2500
04-16-2008, 07:25 PM
If you have a machine that can run it, Vista is fine.

Macs never have these kind of problems because they specifically build their machines for their operating systems. Microsoft doesn't. They build their OS for any computer in the world.

TeamBoone
04-17-2008, 01:02 PM
The 64-bit versions have no cap, for instance, I'm using 8Gig of RAM. While yes, it's overkill for the average user, RAM is dirt cheap right now and why now? :)

If you were buying a new laptop, how much memory would you want (minimum)?

Thx.

pahster
04-17-2008, 01:23 PM
If you were buying a new laptop, how much memory would you want (minimum)?

Thx.

4.

One thing to consider is that, so long as the laptop's motherboard is capable of taking more, you might buy the minimum that you can and then buy more separately. This would most likely save you an awful lot of money. You'd have to either pop open your lappy yourself or have the new RAM installed by someone else, though. It'd likely be worth it.

*BaseClogger*
04-17-2008, 06:16 PM
while we are asking for suggestions about laptops, what do the people think of the HP Compaq 8510p? It's got a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB of memory, a 160 GB hard drive, and Windows Vista Ultimate. Thanks.

Reds4Life
04-17-2008, 07:17 PM
while we are asking for suggestions about laptops, what do the people think of the HP Compaq 8510p? It's got a 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB of memory, a 160 GB hard drive, and Windows Vista Ultimate. Thanks.

The last HP I owned got so hot you could cook a steak on it.

KronoRed
04-18-2008, 01:28 AM
I have an HP and it does get pretty hot, works fine otherwise, and I've dropped it a few times

*BaseClogger*
04-18-2008, 10:17 AM
Thanks guys. Is the temperature gonna matter besides making my hands even sweatier? :)

KronoRed
04-18-2008, 10:51 AM
It'll get loud as the fan kicks on

TeamBoone
04-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Thanks for the answer to my question.

Re Compaq: My first computer was a Gateway which after about 5 years was killed by a virus. Very good computer and I'm still using the monitor. My second and current computer is a Compaq. I've had it for about 5 yrs as well and it's been great so far.

I have never had the problem of it getting hot. The only time the fan got loud is because I hadn't opened up and cleaned out all the gunk/dirty dust that accumulates over time. Since doing that, I don't even hear the fan.

Clean your internal CPU's regularly (at least every 6 months) folks. It makes a world of difference.

As for a Compaq laptop, I have no idea. But I really want a laptop (I wouldn't give up my desktop though). I'm greedy; I want both.

GIK
04-18-2008, 11:19 PM
I have a Compaq (designed by HP) and it's been rock-solid reliable. But the fan is loud and it gets pretty darn hot.

It's getting close to upgrade time and I've heard a lot of negativity around Vista, so I'm not sure. I haven't really used it (my home and work PC's run XP). Less is more, IMO, re: an operating system. We'll see...maybe I'll try a Mac this time.

AtomicDumpling
04-19-2008, 12:02 AM
Generally speaking, more powerful computers are going to run hotter than less powerful computers. The three components that generate the most heat are the CPU, the video card and the power supply. If your computer does not have a stand-alone video card it will run cooler. Of course computers without stand-alone video cards won't perform very well either.

When buying a computer the brand name is not very important. None of the top brand-name computer "manufacturers" actually manufacture anything. They just buy components from the actual manufacturers (like Western Digital, Intel, Gigabyte, Kingston, AMD etc) and plug them together in a case. Then they stick their own logo on the case. If you were to open up a Dell, Gateway, HP, Acer, Apple, Compaq or whatever brand of computer you would see they are all the same inside. If you compare computers of different brands that have the same specifications for CPU speed, hard drive size, amount of memory etc. you will find the included components are identical in most cases.

The rest is just marketing. Some people are willing to pay extra for certain brands, but they aren't really getting anything better for their money.

If you have the time and desire you can buy those exact same parts and plug them together yourself -- and save several hundred dollars for your trouble. You would end up with the same computer as you would by buying a Dell, HP, Apple etc. In fact you can easily make a better computer and still save lots of money.

Go down to Best Buy and open the side panel of one of the computers. Write down all the parts inside. Then go to the parts section of the store and add up the prices of all the components. You will be amazed at how low the cost of the components will be. If you look up those prices on the Internet you can save even more money.

The only downside is you don't get any tech support should something malfunction down the road. But you shouldn't need any tech support because building your own computer will teach you all you need to know to fix it yourself.

You can't really build your own laptop/notebook computer however. Building a desktop is easy. Building a laptop is possible, but it is much harder to find the components and you won't really save any money.

Computer companies make more profit from the optional extended warranty and all the advertisements, trial software and other crap they install on your computer than they do from selling you the actual computer itself.

As far as XP versus Vista, my opinion is that most of the time it doesn't matter. XP is perfectly adequate 95% of the time. If you have a cutting edge computer with 64 bit quad-core processor and are running two SLI-based video cards you would have to use Vista. Vista is more secure and has more gadgets and bells & whistles, but you can download most of them as add-ons to XP if you want them.

I can't think of a single good reason to buy a Mac. They cost more money and are inferior computers compared to PCs with the same specs. They aren't upgradeable and they won't run 85% of the software on the market unless you pay $100+ extra for a copy of Windows. Apple products always cost more and underperform their leading competitors. Ipods aren't as good as MP3 players from Creative Labs and others. Iphones aren't as good as the latest Blackberries. Try them out head to head and I am sure you will agree. Apple is all about trendy marketing, sleek design and peer pressure.

redsrule2500
04-19-2008, 12:57 AM
Generally speaking, more powerful computers are going to run hotter than less powerful computers. The three components that generate the most heat are the CPU, the video card and the power supply. If your computer does not have a stand-alone video card it will run cooler. Of course computers without stand-alone video cards won't perform very well either.



You are somewhat correct, although many users often buy computers by certain brands because of the software bundled with the computer. Advanced users will obviously just install their own operating system and whatnot, but many people are lured to a computer because of the software packaging - and the different brands are quite different in this respect. There are higher quality parts used by certain companies as well, but I agree that more or less they are the same computer hardware wise.

HBP
04-21-2008, 09:41 PM
I can't think of a single good reason to buy a Mac. They cost more money and are inferior computers compared to PCs with the same specs. They aren't upgradeable and they won't run 85% of the software on the market unless you pay $100+ extra for a copy of Windows. Apple products always cost more and underperform their leading competitors. Ipods aren't as good as MP3 players from Creative Labs and others. Iphones aren't as good as the latest Blackberries. Try them out head to head and I am sure you will agree. Apple is all about trendy marketing, sleek design and peer pressure.

As a consumer, I think it's great that Apple is beginning to sell more in the market. This will create a more competitive market and spurn innovation, lower prices, all that crap. It's the same reason I wish AMD would make a comeback as I feel Intel might be the only major player here in a year or so.

OldRightHander
04-22-2008, 04:41 PM
As a consumer, I think it's great that Apple is beginning to sell more in the market. This will create a more competitive market and spurn innovation, lower prices, all that crap. It's the same reason I wish AMD would make a comeback as I feel Intel might be the only major player here in a year or so.

I was thinking the same thing when they started putting Intel chips in Macs. I don't like anybody having a monopoly on something. I've been a Mac person for years and I've noticed that regarding software availability, things are better now than they've ever been. Every piece of software I've wanted recently has a Mac version and there is some software that is frankly better than its counterpart for Windows. One thing I can't get anymore is IE, but who wants that piece of junk anyway.