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View Full Version : What do you do with Todd Coffey?



bucksfan2
04-16-2008, 12:28 PM
What do you do with this guy? He has stuff, dont get me wrong, but he gets shelled about every time he takes the mound. It seems that he is always missing in the wrong spot and getting hit hard. Every pitcher is going to have their bad outings, Burton yesterday, but Coffey seems like he is more inclined to have more bad outings. The problem is that its the same old thing with him. He has a good spring, a good few games early in the season and then goes south quickly there afterwards.

Do you send him to AAA?

Do you trade him to give him a fresh start somewhere else?

How long do you hold onto him when it seems like he is fools gold every year?

RedsManRick
04-16-2008, 12:32 PM
I've defended him in the past, but I just don't know what to make of him. His HR rate is ridiculous. I almost have to believe that he's tipping his pitches or something. He just gets hit so freaking hard when he's in the zone...

RedlegJake
04-16-2008, 12:32 PM
I like Todd but maybe it's time to move him - perhaps a trade for a similar guy who needs a "fresh" start.

Screwball
04-16-2008, 12:35 PM
His outrageous HR/FB% continues (27.3%, up from an absurd 26.1% in '07). I think jojo, cedric and others nailed it when saying that it wasn't due to simple bad luck and random variances, but that he's in serious decline. I was really hoping he'd have a big bounce-back year, but sadly he just gives up way too many HRs for that to happen.

Red in Chicago
04-16-2008, 12:39 PM
i think he needs a change of scenery...potential seems to be there, but maybe it's just not meant to be...can he play outfield like ankiel;)

schroomytunes
04-16-2008, 12:59 PM
I agree maybe we need to move him for a low minor leaguer, we have Bray, Belisle that are ready to move up. He simply gets shelled every time he pitches, we need to move on!

OldXOhio
04-16-2008, 01:25 PM
I don't see you getting much in return for him. Not sure what his contract situation is, but I think you have to send him to AAA until such time either his performance (value) improves or he becomes worthy of a release.

Spring~Fields
04-16-2008, 01:40 PM
What do you do with this guy? He has stuff, dont get me wrong, but he gets shelled about every time he takes the mound.

Do you send him to AAA?

Do you trade him to give him a fresh start somewhere else?

How long do you hold onto him when it seems like he is fools gold every year?

I donít know because the guy confounds and puzzles me as he appears to have it and then again he doesnít.

Coffey is kind of to pitching like Edwin Encarcion is to hitting and fielding.

If the Reds were to trade or DFA him I would hope that someone like Duncan at St. Louis doesnít get him so that he could come back and hurt the Reds.

Maybe Coffey would be better off used to face just one batter and build on those successes until he is ready to do an entire inning or two, maybe he needs to go to AAA, maybe he needs to pitch more often, I donít know.

flyer85
04-16-2008, 01:45 PM
Coffey has little command in the zone. He has constantly made mistakes up and over the plate.

REDREAD
04-16-2008, 02:00 PM
I say you keep Coffey on the team all year. We have a 12 man pitching staff, so it's not too hard to limit him to games where the team is behind until he finds himself.

Sending him to AAA does no good. Like EdE, he needs to figure himself out.
This is the perfect year to let guys like Burton, Coffey, and EdE play and see if they are worth keeping. I'll throw Bray in there too. He needs to come up at some point and get a final audition if he's healthy.

I'd be much more inclined to try to wait until July to trade a Lincoln/Weathers type guy if he is pitching well.

Kc61
04-16-2008, 02:04 PM
Coffey will be gone because the Reds need room for Belisle and Bray.

Reds need two spots. Coffey is a relatively easy call. Not sure who the other one is; wait for an injury I guess.

Agree that Coffey isn't hurting since he is pitching mop up. But he hasn't been effective; Belisle and Bray could be.

*BaseClogger*
04-16-2008, 02:06 PM
Sending him to AAA does no good. Like EdE, he needs to figure himself out.
This is the perfect year to let guys like Burton, Coffey, and EdE play and see if they are worth keeping. I'll throw Bray in there too. He needs to come up at some point and get a final audition if he's healthy.

and... Joey Votto ;)

mth123
04-16-2008, 05:05 PM
If he's got any value. time for a deal. I'd call Detroit and try to work something out for Marcus Thames. Maybe they'd want him and Freel. They are desperate for bullpen. Give 'em McBeth too if necessary.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-16-2008, 05:44 PM
I see no reason to keep Coffey around if Salmon wasn't considered worthy enough to keep around.

Highlifeman21
04-16-2008, 05:46 PM
I continue to root for Todd Coffey.

Something about him, I always find myself pulling for the guy, but right now I'd like to see nothing more than him in Louisville. He's just not helping the big club, right now.

Hopefully that changes down the road, but right now I honestly believe we have better options in AAA.

Matt700wlw
04-16-2008, 05:49 PM
Todd Coffey's pitching problems go back further than 14 games in 2008.

He stunk it up last year, too....

I'm beginning to wonder if he's not much more than a AAAA guy.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-16-2008, 06:01 PM
I continue to root for Todd Coffey.

Something about him, I always find myself pulling for the guy, but right now I'd like to see nothing more than him in Louisville. He's just not helping the big club, right now.


Drafted in the 41st round (1220th overall) out of HS in 1998 with the longest tenure in the organization (other than Adam Dunn) might be the reason some feel this way.

I love the underdog as much as the next guy, but it was time to move on during the off-season. We throw the likes of Guevara, Salmon, and Medlock to the trash and keep giving guys like Coffey and Majewski chances and it befuddles me.

REDREAD
04-16-2008, 06:03 PM
and... Joey Votto ;)

Good point.. Votto needs to play every day as well.

WVRedsFan
04-16-2008, 06:43 PM
Coffey appears to have good stuff. it's his head that isn't on straight. He constantly leaves pitches up and over the plate--just ripe for the long ball or to get hit hard.

He's jhad enough time to mature. It's not going to happen. Trade him or DFA him.

Will M
04-16-2008, 06:44 PM
If he's got any value. time for a deal. I'd call Detroit and try to work something out for Marcus Thames. Maybe they'd want him and Freel. They are desperate for bullpen. Give 'em McBeth too if necessary.

Marcus Thames is a RH hitter with some power who hits lefties well ( but not righties ). He would be perfect for the Reds.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 01:37 AM
Can anyone explain the total mess that is Todd Coffey?

Can anyone tell me why we continue to march him out there?

Good Grief.

Tommyjohn25
04-27-2008, 01:39 AM
I would bet my Plasma TV that he's gone on Monday. And I love my Plasma TV.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2008, 01:41 AM
Must be between his ears, I don't understand what happened to him.

SMcGavin
04-27-2008, 01:42 AM
Bill Bray in Louisville: 8.2 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 14 K, 3 BB

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 01:47 AM
I would bet my Plasma TV that he's gone on Monday. And I love my Plasma TV.

Got one too and I love it as much as you love yours. I'm willing to put it at risk :).

Oh well, 10-15, and bringing in Coffey nearly cost us that win. Why does a guy with so much stuff have to be so pitiful? He needs a change of scenery to the American League in case some pitching coach can correct his problems if they are mechanical. My fear is that his problems are mental.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 01:50 AM
Bill Bray in Louisville: 8.2 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 14 K, 3 BB


Only one caveat. AAA ain't MLB. He's been here before with similar results to Mr. Coffey's 6.91 ERA. But, send Todd down and bring up Bill. It can't be any worse.

Kc61
04-27-2008, 01:53 AM
Coffey threw the ball well in a couple of outings recently. I don't blame Dusty for using him up five runs tonight.

Todd didn't look very good tonight. I would agree that Bray up and Coffey down will happen soon.

SMcGavin
04-27-2008, 01:55 AM
Only one caveat. AAA ain't MLB. He's been here before with similar results to Mr. Coffey's 6.91 ERA. But, send Todd down and bring up Bill. It can't be any worse.

I have to disagree. Bray was never this bad. He has pretty impressive K:BB with the Reds (close to 3:1), and doesn't have the extreme HR rate that Coffey does. I know people get tired of the "bad luck" explanation but Bray has only pitched 42 MLB innings for the Reds, and I think if he comes back up you're going to see a much better ERA than the 5.00 or so he had over those 42 innings.

dougdirt
04-27-2008, 01:55 AM
Only one caveat. AAA ain't MLB. He's been here before with similar results to Mr. Coffey's 6.91 ERA. But, send Todd down and bring up Bill. It can't be any worse.

Bray is also fully healthy at this point too.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2008, 01:58 AM
I wish we had the St. Louis pitching coach, I don't have any faith in ours anymore.

Lohse and Franklin are even pitching better since leaving here and getting with Duncan in St.
Louis.

I am uncomfortable with some of these pitchers just being tossed aside when pitching is such a valuable resource in baseball today. I guess since Pole can’t get Coffey straightened out that AAA would be the best option and bring Bray up.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 02:03 AM
I wish we had the St. Louis pitching coach, I don't any faith in ours anymore.

Lohse and Franklin are even pitching better since leaving here and getting with Duncan in St. Louis.

Of the pitching coaches we've had over the last 7 years, only the late Verne Ruhle seemed to make a difference. I don't expect to see a change anytime soon since Duty and Dick seem to have a long-time relationship.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2008, 02:16 AM
Of the pitching coaches we've had over the last 7 years, only the late Verne Ruhle seemed to make a difference. I don't expect to see a change anytime soon since Duty and Dick seem to have a long-time relationship.

I have to agree with you. Sometimes I wonder what the value of a pitching coach is anymore with the exception of organizing workouts etc, they don't seem to help or really make a difference for the Reds pitchers.

You would think that baseball would take a different look at pitching coaches and instructors today since pitching is in such demand and is so hard to come by. I mean something more than the pitching and bullpen coach, almost a team of instructors and coaches working with them. Spend more on the teams coaching and instructing staff at the major league level to help these guys, it's hard to believe that so many are so bad at times. Young strong healthy guys can't pitch, and the coach can't fix em. :confused:

MrCinatit
04-27-2008, 03:05 AM
Must be between his ears, I don't understand what happened to him.

This is only a hunch, but that is my feeling. I would love to see a number breakdown comparing his performances in pressure situations versus non-pressure situations.

Tony Cloninger
04-27-2008, 11:50 AM
I look at it as.....Cueto and Volquez look pretty sharp and they seem to be working out under DP watch.....so just beacuse Coffey has turned into Ed Sprauge circa 1973...or Ben Hayes circa 1983.....means to me that Todd just is not very good and it's time to move on and see if that helps him...it will surely help us.

PuffyPig
04-27-2008, 12:03 PM
Lohse and Franklin are even pitching better since leaving here and getting with Duncan in St.Louis.



DIPS says otherwise.

Franklin, in the second half last year, showed his true colors.

Give them time.

lollipopcurve
04-27-2008, 12:15 PM
Why does a guy with so much stuff have to be so pitiful?

He has less stuff than Mike Lincoln. Coffey has a fastball at 93-94 tops, it's very hittable, and he has no secondary pitch of value. Not a stuff guy. He has to be able to spot his fastball with precision to be effective, and he has shown with alarming consistency that he can't do that. People were enamored of some gaudy minor league numbers, but it's clear that in his case the jump to the majors was quite steep.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2008, 12:20 PM
Coffey needs to go. The Reds have too much talent in the system to be waiting on some paradigm shift in his approach that may never come.

Sea Ray
04-27-2008, 12:25 PM
When Todd Coffey first came up he was throwing moving cutters ala Mariano Rivera. They don't seem to have that same late movement anymore. I wonder how many 2seem FBs he's throwing now.

I think we as a team have to move on. Bring in Bray to replace him and try to get him a fresh start somewhere else.

BCubb2003
04-27-2008, 12:45 PM
I'm rooting for him to turn it around but I think he's always been kind of misplaced. He was not a highly touted prospect and basically came from nowhere in late 2005. He was average, with a 4.50 ERA, but the bullpen was melting down at that point and he was a breath of fresh air in comparison.

The next year he improved, with a 3.58 ERA. That's still not really top setup or closer territory, but people saw the big guy charging in from the bullpen and thought of Nasty Boy Jr. He's always been the kind of reliever who gets himself into trouble before he gets himself out of it, and that kind of thing eventually dooms you.

One of the odd things is that in spite of his troubles, he was sixth in the NL in appearances last year and he's fourth this year.

It's probably best if he goes down to Louisville and starts putting himself back together step by step. If he can do that, he might still have a decent career.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2008, 01:00 PM
AAA....and leave him there.

AA....A....I don't care. Anywhere but here.

Tom Servo
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
I am someone who keeps holding out hope that 07 was just an anomoly and he'll return to form, but jeez it's just not happening. Send him to AAA for now and trade him if some team is willing to give up an interesting piece for him.

Oh and I have no doubt that as soon as we trade him he becomes a sub 4.00 era reliever.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 01:45 PM
It's time to cut him loose.

When you give a guy every chance--one of the most used relievers in the league--and you fail time after time, he shouldn't be surprised that AAA is his venue of choice--for the teams.

Last night, the Cowboy said it best. The straight fastball down the middle. It's Coffey's worst enemy and yet he does it time after time. "you just don't throw that pitch," Jeff said. And yet Coffey did and the predicted happened. His problem is between his ears and you cannot coach that, according to many experts (of whom I am not one).

Dilly-Dallying with him any longer will be a repeat of last night's disaster over and over (with the 1 inning, 2 hits, 1 walk, and 1 run outings that will give everyone false hope once in awhile).

Nope. Time to say goodbye.

mbgrayson
04-27-2008, 02:27 PM
Even his secondary numbers are off this year.

He has only struck out 3.14 batters per 9 innings, down from 7.59/9 last year. His walk rate is up from 3.35/9 to 3.77 per 9 innings.

Amazingly his BABIP (Batting average on balls in play), which some take as a measure of the pitcher's amount of bad luck, is down from .365 in 2007, to .298 this year. In other words, Coffey is doing this poorly even though he has not had 'bad luck' this year.

The biggest problem with Coffey is that his HR/FB rate rose from 8-10% in 2005 and 2006, up to 25-26% in 2007 and 2008. You just can't give up one HR out of every 4 fly balls and survive in MLB. Maybe he would do better in San Diego, where a much smaller # of fly balls turn into HRs.

Coffey is only 27, and I always liked the guy. I am not sure what is wrong, but certainly part of it is mental. I expect that Coffey is sent down or DFA'd on Monday, and Bill Bray is called up.

jojo
04-27-2008, 03:31 PM
I'd inquire about trading Coffey for Chase Utley and then the Reds could move Phillips to short....

Tommyjohn25
04-27-2008, 03:37 PM
I'd inquire about trading Coffey for Chase Utley and then the Reds could move Phillips to short....

It's so obvious! Why can we see it and the Reds FO doesn't!! :cool:

Benihana
04-27-2008, 06:27 PM
Replace him with Bill Bray. Where he goes, I don't care.

VR
04-27-2008, 07:28 PM
Replace him with Bill Bray. Where he goes, I don't care.

If that move doesn't happen between now and StL, I'd be stunned.

red-in-la
04-27-2008, 07:54 PM
See if you can get your money back.....:dunno:

TOBTTReds
04-27-2008, 08:12 PM
Replace him with Bill Bray. Where he goes, I don't care.

I agree. The Reds would be eating another 900k if that is the case (although I know TC would be in aaa and not released).

bucksfan2
04-27-2008, 08:29 PM
I don't know. How many chances do you give him before you say good bye. Maybe a change of scenery would do wonders for Coffey but as of right now he doesn't belong on the major league bullpen.

OldRightHander
04-27-2008, 09:44 PM
I don't know what to think about Coffey. I am extremely disappointed in the way he's been pitching and I do think that his spot on the roster might be better taken up by someone who can be more consistent. But that's as far as I can go. For some reason I really can't put a finger on, I've always kind of liked him. He's one of the non superstar players I always find myself rooting for, usually because that player's success would be a good story and I like good stories.

With all that said, I do believe that maybe the time has come for the Reds to cut him loose, but I don't say that with the exuberant glee that some have expressed. I'm not going to say, as I've seen others say, that I hope he never plays ball again, etc. I don't wish that on any player, with the exception of the juicers and the last time I checked they're all retired. So yes, I do believe that it is in the Reds' best interests to either send him down or let him go, but I still wish the best for him and hope that he can find a home with another (non NL Central) team where he can settle down and have a nice career. It's the same way I felt when Juan Castro was let go. It's the right thing to do for the team but I'm not going to be jubilant about it. Whenever player moves like this happen, I always find myself thinking about the player and wishing the best for him.

Tommyjohn25
04-27-2008, 09:48 PM
I don't know what to think about Coffey. I am extremely disappointed in the way he's been pitching and I do think that his spot on the roster might be better taken up by someone who can be more consistent. But that's as far as I can go. For some reason I really can't put a finger on, I've always kind of liked him. He's one of the non superstar players I always find myself rooting for, usually because that player's success would be a good story and I like good stories.

With all that said, I do believe that maybe the time has come for the Reds to cut him loose, but I don't say that with the exuberant glee that some have expressed. I'm not going to say, as I've seen others say, that I hope he never plays ball again, etc. I don't wish that on any player, with the exception of the juicers and the last time I checked they're all retired. So yes, I do believe that it is in the Reds' best interests to either send him down or let him go, but I still wish the best for him and hope that he can find a home with another (non NL Central) team where he can settle down and have a nice career. It's the same way I felt when Juan Castro was let go. It's the right thing to do for the team but I'm not going to be jubilant about it. Whenever player moves like this happen, I always find myself thinking about the player and wishing the best for him.

Good post ORH. I actually agree with every word of it, although sometimes I catch myself being "happy" or "jubilant" when certain players get let go, I really don't mean it...at least I SHOULDN'T mean it.

MartyFan
04-27-2008, 09:49 PM
He needs to go to AAA...put his head and his stones together.

fearofpopvol1
09-17-2008, 10:26 PM
I must have missed it if someone had posted it, but I just turned on the Brewers/Cubs game and low and behold, Todd Coffey is on the mound for the Brewers.