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View Full Version : Edwin Encarnacion: NEEDS TO BE IN AAA



redsrule2500
04-17-2008, 04:25 PM
Does anyone agree. He looks terrible. It looks like a highschooler attempting to throw across the diamond...it's just gotten to the point of just plain TERRIBLE in my opinion.

It's obviously psychological too. He just doesn't have what it takes at this point.

redsfan30
04-17-2008, 04:47 PM
His offense is coming around and that's huge for this team. He's not going to win a Gold Glove anytime soon, but if he can get straightened around at the plate it will take a load off his shoulders defensively as well.

You've stuck with him this long and he's finally showing signs of life at the plate. He should not go to Triple A at this point.

VR
04-17-2008, 04:48 PM
He's now hit .400 over the last 8 games.

It seems he may be hitting...I may have agreed w/ you a week ago, but for now....put him out there.

dougdirt
04-17-2008, 04:52 PM
That throw was not going to make a difference. Heck, it wasn't even an error.

*BaseClogger*
04-17-2008, 04:53 PM
Weather gets warmer, EE begins hitting. Coincidence? BA up to .240 with an almost .400 OB%...

reds44
04-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Um, what? Did I miss something? Did a thread from a week ago get bumped up or something?

RedEye
04-17-2008, 04:55 PM
I really don't think demoting Edwin to AAA will do anything to help him at this point. It would only stagnate his development. He needs to work on ironing out the kinks at the ML level without looking over his shoulder all the time. He is only 24.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2008, 04:56 PM
He's finally starting to hit. He'll be fine IMO. That play you're referring to today was a very tough play for any third baseman.

reds44
04-17-2008, 04:57 PM
He has an eight game hitting streak, and two doubles today.

Not really the time to demote a guy.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2008, 04:59 PM
Does anyone agree. He looks terrible. It looks like a highschooler attempting to throw across the diamond...it's just gotten to the point of just plain TERRIBLE in my opinion.

It's obviously psychological too. He just doesn't have what it takes at this point.
No. He's beginning to come around offensively and he's about the only option we have a third, especially with Gonzo out probably for the season and Freel likely traded.

RedsManRick
04-17-2008, 05:01 PM
Nope, he needs time. I don't disagree that he looks a bit lost up there at times. I think that begs consistency of opportunity, not jerking him back to AAA every time he slumps.

TOBTTReds
04-17-2008, 05:12 PM
Um, what? Did I miss something? Did a thread from a week ago get bumped up or something?

That's what I thought. I immediately looked at the time/date of the first post. Thought it was a joke.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-17-2008, 05:15 PM
More appropriate thread title:

Edwin Encarnacion: Needs to be in infield practice.

His bat is starting to warm up, but he's still making bad throws in the field. Something he needs to work on for sure, but if he's hitting, he's going to be an asset to this team.

PuffyPig
04-17-2008, 05:16 PM
EE has a better OPS this season than most lifetime OPS's of the guys many posters want to replace him with.

Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint.

Beware the small sample size.

reds44
04-17-2008, 05:22 PM
More appropriate thread title:

Edwin Encarnacion: Needs to be in infield practice.

His bat is starting to warm up, but he's still making bad throws in the field. Something he needs to work on for sure, but if he's hitting, he's going to be an asset to this team.
With the potential of Dunn, Griffey, and Patterson all being gone next year, I wouldn't be surprised to see EE wind up in LF with Bruce in RF and maybe a guy like Rosales at 3rd.

guttle11
04-17-2008, 05:23 PM
He should throw it from his keister every time. Right on the money.

You have to let the kid sink or swim at this point. To me, he has all year...but you have to at least give him a couple of months.

Highlifeman21
04-17-2008, 05:23 PM
Does anyone agree. He looks terrible. It looks like a highschooler attempting to throw across the diamond...it's just gotten to the point of just plain TERRIBLE in my opinion.

It's obviously psychological too. He just doesn't have what it takes at this point.

So who replaces him from AAA?

redsrule2500
04-17-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm talking purely defensively.

reds44
04-17-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm talking purely defensively.
Well you can't send down his defense and keep his bat up here.

pahster
04-17-2008, 05:30 PM
It's obviously psychological too.

And how did you reach this diagnosis?

GAC
04-17-2008, 05:33 PM
I really don't think demoting Edwin to AAA will do anything to help him at this point. It would only stagnate his development. He needs to work on ironing out the kinks at the ML level without looking over his shoulder all the time. He is only 24.

Yep. Demoting isn't going to help him at this stage.

From observing this kid, I don't think his defense is going to get much better because they've worked and worked with this kid on his foot work, and he just ain't getting it.

But you hang with kid and give him the chance since Gonzo is out. Just keep Castro on the bench, unless it's as a late inning INF defensive replacement with the Reds up bunches (like today vs the Cubs).

RedEye
04-17-2008, 05:33 PM
Well you can't send down his defense and keep his bat up here.

That would be AWESOME though.

reds44
04-17-2008, 05:35 PM
That would be AWESOME though.
I think the Reds will be thinking position change for him in the offseason unless his defense improves drastically by the end of the season.

The 9th inning today was comical.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2008, 05:35 PM
That would be AWESOME though.

Maybe they can send him to Louisville to work on his defense and buy him a super long bat that stretches from Louisville to Cincinnati in order to keep his bat in the Reds lineup.

*BaseClogger*
04-17-2008, 05:48 PM
In 2009 we may see EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, Gonzalez at SS, and Bruce in RF...

reds44
04-17-2008, 05:49 PM
In 2009 we may see EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, Gonzalez at SS, and Bruce in RF...
Yeah, I definatley agree that something like that is very possible. Maybe somebody else instead of Gonzalez (who will be in the last year of his deal and coming off maybe missing an entire season), but I think you are onto something.

RedsManRick
04-17-2008, 05:49 PM
In 2009 we may see EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, Gonzalez at SS, and Bruce in RF...

Just trade Dunn and change to LA for Matt Kemp and stick him in CF in 2008 and I'd be a happy camper.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2008, 05:49 PM
In 2009 we may see EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, Gonzalez at SS, and Bruce in RF...

Not a bad idea. I'd like to pump up EdE's value a bit and trade him if possible. He's just untenable at 3rd.

*BaseClogger*
04-17-2008, 06:00 PM
It would be very beneficial for AGon to get healthy next year, as he could likely serve as a stopgap for some of the young middle-infielders. Could Todd Frazier be ready? Is he a SS? Krivsky would need to start making decisions on the youngsters...

WMR
04-17-2008, 06:06 PM
EE is going to have a great season. Beautiful web gem versus the Cubs this afternoon.

redsrule2500
04-17-2008, 07:45 PM
EE is going to have a great season. Beautiful web gem versus the Cubs this afternoon.

Web Gem??? Did I miss something?

Unless you mean the play that he should have gloved correctly to begin with, but bobbled and then recovered amazingly...?

Screwball
04-17-2008, 09:40 PM
Web Gem??? Did I miss something?

Unless you mean the play that he should have gloved correctly to begin with, but bobbled and then recovered amazingly...?

That ball was smashed and took a nasty hop right before it got to him. I thought EE showed excellent concentration and reflexes to stay with it and still get the out at first.

Hoosier Red
04-17-2008, 10:35 PM
And followed it up by falling on his keister, then making a throwing error on successive plays.

It was nice to see him start hitting with authority though.

KronoRed
04-18-2008, 01:22 AM
Um, what? Did I miss something? Did a thread from a week ago get bumped up or something?

Nah just an old drum being banged because we have to find negative to chat about.

OnBaseMachine
04-18-2008, 01:30 AM
FWIW, Edwin's 9th inning play was the 4th best web gem on Baseball Tonight.

Aronchis
04-18-2008, 01:55 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad. That said, EE has a tendency to play better D as the season progresses. The Reds need to boost Hatt's value and he can't do that with Votto hitting with power.

OnBaseMachine
04-18-2008, 01:59 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad. That said, EE has a tendency to play better D as the season progresses. The Reds need to boost Hatt's value and he can't do that with Votto hitting with power.

Considering Joey Votto leads the team with a .946 OPS, I'd say yes, sending him to AAA would be bad.

Redhook
04-18-2008, 08:11 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad. That said, EE has a tendency to play better D as the season progresses. The Reds need to boost Hatt's value and he can't do that with Votto hitting with power.

Send Votto to AAA? Just to boost Hatte's value? Hatteberg is a damn good player, but he's 38 and doesn't have much left in the tank. He wouldn't bring much in return if he was hitting .450 right now. Unless you can get someone good for him, which I don't see happening, I think they should hold onto him as long as possible because he's an asset to the team. And he's cheap.

Personally, I'm ecstatic that Votto is starting to hit for power. I don't see how any Reds fan can view this any other way than being great for the team.

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 08:34 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad.

I'll play this game.

We should send Harang and Cordero to AAA also.

No, to AA.

No, to A ball.

What do I win?

Chip R
04-18-2008, 09:01 AM
I'll play this game.

We should send Harang and Cordero to AAA also.

No, to AA.

No, to A ball.

What do I win?


http://allvintagestore.com/Toys%20Pics/TM6%20Troll%20Naked.jpg

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 09:11 AM
http://allvintagestore.com/Toys%20Pics/TM6%20Troll%20Naked.jpg


Now, why would I want a doll of myself?

TOBTTReds
04-18-2008, 09:18 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad.

WHAT?

klw
04-18-2008, 09:18 AM
double post o'snark

klw
04-18-2008, 09:23 AM
Sending EE and Votto to AAA wouldn't be that bad. .

I agree. They could get triptik's, insurance, renew their driver's licenses, and even apply for a home loan. AAA is important for any young driver to have in case of an auto emergency.

http://www.aaacincinnati.com/?zip=45140

nate
04-18-2008, 09:24 AM
I agree. They could get triptik's, insurance, renew their driver's licenses, and even apply for a home loan. AAA is important for any young driver to have in case of an auto emergency.

Heh, good one!

If the season continues to play out the way it has so far, some of us are gonna need to go to AA.

SMcGavin
04-18-2008, 10:37 AM
Heh, good one!

If the season continues to play out the way it has so far, some of us are gonna need to go to AA.

Well played! Now if only A was an acronym for something.

RedlegJake
04-18-2008, 10:49 AM
Well played! Now if only A was an acronym for something.

With -hole it is!

nate
04-18-2008, 11:21 AM
With -hole it is!

Heh. Touché!

WMR
04-20-2008, 02:39 PM
Beautiful barehanded web gem to rob Bill Hall of a base-hit followed shortly by his 3rd blast of the season. Keep doing your thang, EE.

Matt700wlw
04-20-2008, 02:40 PM
I guess he can stay...for now ;)

jojo
04-20-2008, 02:42 PM
Stick EE in the lineup and forget about him.

WMR
04-20-2008, 02:43 PM
Stick EE in the lineup and forget about him.

Exactly.

VR
04-20-2008, 03:02 PM
FWIW, Edwin's 9th inning play was the 4th best web gem on Baseball Tonight.

Making web gems comes easily to EE.

It's the one hoppers hit right at him with Barolo Colon running that cause problems.

reds44
04-20-2008, 03:23 PM
10 game hitting streak for Edwin.

Yeah, he's going to be fine.

Matt700wlw
04-20-2008, 03:27 PM
I never doubted him ;) :D

HumnHilghtFreel
04-20-2008, 03:57 PM
Making web gems comes easily to EE.

It's the one hoppers hit right at him with Barolo Colon running that cause problems.

How true it is.

Matt700wlw
04-20-2008, 03:58 PM
How we lookin' now?

reds44
04-20-2008, 03:59 PM
He can't play defense, this is nothing new.

Wouldn't have been in extras if it wasn't for him, however.

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 03:59 PM
He made a web gem earlier in the game but just now botched the easiest double play you can get.

Still, this one belongs on the offense.

reds44
04-20-2008, 04:05 PM
It was an awful play no doubt. It should have been a DP, but it's very hard to get upset at anything other than the offense.

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 04:07 PM
It was an awful play no doubt. It should have been a DP, but it's very hard to get upset at anything other tahn the offense.

Exactly.

Kc61
04-20-2008, 04:08 PM
He made a web gem earlier in the game but just now botched the easiest double play you can get.

Still, this one belongs on the offense.

EE has six errors this year, playing fewer than the Reds 19 games. Six errors. That one, like a number of others, was costly.

Tell me how this guy is a winning player at third base.

reds44
04-20-2008, 04:08 PM
And he homers again.

jojo
04-20-2008, 04:08 PM
It was an awful play no doubt. It should have been a DP, but it's very hard to get upset at anything other tahn the offense.

Well GABP will give them a boost when they get back home......uhhhh.....oops....

WVRedsFan
04-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Reds remind me of the Keystone Kops, the old comedy troupe. If something can go wrong it will. Dunn not sliding earlier was just as big of an error (though he might have been out anyway). When I saw that ball headed toward Edwin, I held my breath as I always do when ball are hit toward him.

Edwin makes that DP and we win. But the errors keep on coming (he has more than half the Reds total. There has to be an answer, but I don't know what it is.

reds44
04-20-2008, 04:09 PM
I think Mr. Encarnacion needs to give Mr. Bako a big hug when he gets in the dugout.

CTA513
04-20-2008, 04:10 PM
Does he have enough speed to play CF? or maybe one of the corner spots when Dunn or Griffey is gone?

reds44
04-20-2008, 04:11 PM
Does he have enough speed to play CF? or maybe one of the corner spots when Dunn or Griffey is gone?
He has decent speed, he could definatley handle LF or RF, IMO. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both Griffey and Dunn gone next year, with EE in left and Bruce in RF.

guttle11
04-20-2008, 04:13 PM
Who plays third in AAA?

Is their any way someone could physically drive his glove up to Edwin? Maybe that would work.

Kc61
04-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Does he have enough speed to play CF? or maybe one of the corner spots when Dunn or Griffey is gone?

Good thinking.

reds44
04-20-2008, 04:15 PM
Who plays third in AAA?

Is their any way someone could physically drive his glove up to Edwin? Maybe that would work.
Rosales.

I'm curious as to what happend to all the defense improvements we saw from him the 2nd half of last year.

membengal
04-20-2008, 04:34 PM
Hum tune as appropriate:

"You take the good, you take the bad, you put them together, and you have your third basemen, yes you have your third baseman."

Always Red
04-20-2008, 04:43 PM
If he continues to hit like he is right now- he can play a corner OF spot or 1B. And good for EE for not taking his defense up to the plate with him today. :)

However, I'm pretty convinced he will never be able to play a dependable 3B. Which is maddening- as noted above, he has good range and can make the great plays, but muffs the easy plays. To me, that's a lack of concentration, not a lack of talent.

Compare that to Keppinger, who is also not that great at SS- but Keppinger always makes the routine plays, and suffers from a lack of range. That is just a lack of talent.

That's why Edwin drives most of us so crazy.

Back to the point of this thread- Edwin in AAA? No way; that'd be a waste of everyone's time.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-20-2008, 05:03 PM
Edwin is one of the more enigmatic players I've seen. He might have his hitting going, but not the defense. The defense, but not the hitting. Or neither. I'd LOVE to see him put it all together, if even for only a few weeks at a time.

fearofpopvol1
04-20-2008, 06:03 PM
If the Reds would decide to move EdE to the outfield in favor of Dunn (which I don't advocate), I'd think they'd move Keppinger to 3B (where he'd probably be a good fit defensively) and then Gonzo would stay at SS.

BrooklynRedz
04-20-2008, 07:30 PM
He has decent speed, he could definatley handle LF or RF, IMO. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see both Griffey and Dunn gone next year, with EE in left and Bruce in RF.

After watching Dunn and Griff struggle in the corner spots, it's surprising people don't have a greater appreciation for the difficulty involved with playing a corner outfield spot. Griffey mentioned it last season in regard to learning to anticipate the spin off the bat. Votto has at least had some exposure out there. Move EE to first where he can flash that glove and let Votto roam LF if yr looking to move a corner outfielder (not that I'm supporting such a move).

reds44
04-20-2008, 07:47 PM
http://www.thelotd.com/ctrent/blog/2008/04/20/encarnacion_bounces_back


Edwin Encarnacion just wanted to forget his error. He knew he was coming up to lead off the bottom of the 10th, but it was hard to put behind his error that lead to a 3-1 Milwaukee lead headed into the last half-inning.

His teammates urged him on, knowing he's an important part of the team, and really the only reason they were able to get to extra innings, thanks to his game-tying solo home run in the fifth inning off of Brewers' starter.

"That's part of the game. Like Dusty (Baker) said, we've got to keep our heads up and not worry about things we do wrong," Encarnacion said. "I know when they got two runs, I just try to get on base because I was leading off and hoped someone could hit a homer to win the game."

Encarnacion didn’t wait for Paul Bako's homer -- although Bako would come through with a homer after Encarnacion -- hitting a 2-2 pitch from Brewers closer Eric Gagne into the seats in left field, for his second homer of the day and fourth of the season, setting up the Reds' 4-3 victory in 10 inning on Sunday and avaoiding the Milwaukee sweep.

"Bam, and he hit it off a tough guy, too. I couldn't have scripted it better than that. It was wonderful," Baker said.

Bako followed with his first homer of the season.

"They say lightening doesn't strike twice, but it struck twice today, in the rain and everything," Baker said. "Man, that's wonderful. I can sleep tonight. I haven't slept worth nothing."

Scott Hatteberg walked and then Gagne -- who was signed by the Brewers to replace Francisco Cordero, who signed with the Reds -- was pulled for Salomon Torres.

Torres struck out leadoff man Corey Patterson (extending his streak to 21 at-bats without a hit), but Brandon Phillips was able to beat out an infield single, to prolong the inning for Ken Griffey Jr.

Griffey fought off a couple of pitches before lining a shot to right just past rightfielder Corey Hart.

"You just go out there and keep swinging the bat and every now and then things will fall in," Griffey said. "A bloop and a blast. We were able to get the bloop in after the two blasts -- I call that a bloop."

Griffey's liner was anything but a bloop, and he was called on that -- "A bloop? Not even you believe that (b.s.)," I said.

"No, but it sounds good," Griffey said with a laugh.

More than anything, Griffey was excited for Encarnacion.

The young third baseman (although he's been the Reds everyday third baseman for the last two-and-a-half seasons, Encarnacion turned 25 in January) set up the Brewers' comeback in the 10th.

After Jared Burton struck out Reds killer Bill Hall, he walked Gabe Gross and gave up a single to Craig Counsell. The next batter, Jason Kendall, hit a grounder down the third base line. Encarnacion seemingly scooped it up and went toward the third base bag to try to get the quick inning-ending double play, but ended up dropping the ball.

"I tried to get to the base before I caught the ball and I forgot it," Encarnacion said.

Burton bounced a slider in front of the plate on the next pitch, allowing Gross to score from third and the Brewers to take the extra inning lead. After a Rickie Weeks strikeout, J.J. Hardy hit a hard grounder down the third base line that Encarnacion was able to knock down, but not make a play on. Despite saving a run (while another scored), boos fell down on Encarnacion.

Encarnacion, who extended his hitting streak to 10 games with his first home run, then heard boos as he lead off the bottom of the 10th.

He didn't hear them as he was rounding the bases.

"Eddie’s a great guy. There’s a lot of people who don't know, he works hard at everything," Griffey said. "He made a mistake and he was able to come up there and deliver his second home run of the game. That shows you he wants to go out there and not get down on himself and help this team in any way, shape or form and he was able to do it. Paulie came up after him and that set the tone and we were able to get a couple of hits when we needed them."

That's something the Reds haven't done much of this season, but did Sunday and it all worked out.

"We need that one so badly. Big time," Baker said. "Seeing St. Louis was losing. We're four (and a half) out. You want to keep everyone in sight until we're rolling. Hopefully that will jump start us big-time. That showed everyone that left, that with this team, the game's not over until that third out."

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 07:55 PM
Really, I would have no problem if Edwin rounded the bases while flipping the bird at the same time. To hear Reds fans boo and trash Dunn/Edwin/Griffey on talks shows is just sickening. They wouldn't know a good ballplayer if it hit them in the ass.

reds44
04-20-2008, 07:57 PM
Updated line:
.258/.379/.484/.862

Third on the team in OPS behind Keppinger and yes, Paul Bako.