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View Full Version : Encarnacion and Coffey



BoCcc2832
04-17-2008, 06:36 PM
First off, I want to agree with some of the responses in the Ol' Red Guard with regards to Encarnacion. He made some foolish plays today (sliding on his butt, throwing wide to Castro, and almost booting the grounder which he ended up making a fabulous play on), but he did get another couple of hits. Edwin now has a seven game hitting streak and has been hitting .296 over those seven games. So to send him down to Louisville would likely be a mistake. I would've said that in the Ol' Red Guard, but I don't have those privileges.

Now with regards to Coffey, it was obvious to me that Dusty Baker was giving Mr. Todd another shot at maintaining his spot with the club before a decision was made after the road trip was completed. Well, he did his job (1 IP, 1 H, and 1 K, 28 pitches). Two things I noticed. One: Coffey throws his tailing fastball way too frequently and consecutively. This needs to stop. Two: Coffey apparently just needs to be relied upon depending on the situation (we were winning by seven). So maybe Coffey doesn't work well under pressure. And now I can hear some of you say he shouldn't be at the Show, which is true. Who knows, we're not the manager, thank God. But maybe Todd Coffey shows he can be better than he normally shows. Not great, like we thought in 2006, but good.

UK Reds Fan
04-17-2008, 06:46 PM
Bottomline...EE is a bit better than any reasonable option at 3b, with Kepp entrenched at SS with Gonzo's injury.

Freel, Rosales or anyone you could get on the dump (Wes Helms, etc..) isn't an upgrade. Just making a move because some are pissed is no reason to make a move.

I'm resigned to living with EE for 2 more years and when he starts to cost in the 1-2Million range, trade him or dump him and go with a young kid. (Rosales, Frazier, Waring, Francisco).

bgwilly31
04-17-2008, 06:50 PM
Bottomline...EE is a bit better than any reasonable option at 3b, with Kepp entrenched at SS with Gonzo's injury.

Freel, Rosales or anyone you could get on the dump (Wes Helms, etc..) isn't an upgrade. Just making a move because some are pissed is no reason to make a move.

I'm resigned to living with EE for 2 more years and when he starts to cost in the 1-2Million range, trade him or dump him and go with a young kid. (Rosales, Frazier, Waring, Francisco).

I can agree with this up till you say trade him. Of course that depends on how good he gets.

As for coffey. Forget it. Dump him now. :thumbdown

Hondo
04-17-2008, 06:51 PM
But when is enough enough? Edwin has to be more than a .280-15-75 guy at a Premier Power position... Atleast batting .280-25-100 every year... There would probably be a lot less pressure on him if there was a legit Right Handed Power Threat hitting in the 4 hole... That way Phillips could go to the 2 hole and Keppinger could bat 7th...

Now on to Todd Coffey... 28 pitches in 1 inning? He has been horrible horrible horrible...

Throwing 28 pitches in not significant Improvement... Even if No runs were allowed...

He has to go before too many Games are lost in the 7-8 Innings...

UK Reds Fan
04-17-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't know when enough is enough...but you get a solid, not spectacular 3rd basemen making peanuts. For the Reds, we ain't moving off of that until he starts to cost more.

By this time though, we'll have a few young guys ready to go hopefully. (Frazier, Waring, Francisco, or Rosales). Why pay EE a ton of money, when he probably won't improve much more than his current state of play.

Carolina Red
04-17-2008, 09:11 PM
Get what you can get out of Coffey now or release him. There are better options (put Belisle back in the rotation and Fogg in the pen). EE will have to do until Wayne can swing a deal and bring in a real 3rd baseman, one who can actually field and throw. Unfortunately I don't think he's going anywhere this year.

SarasotaFan
04-17-2008, 09:20 PM
agree - 28 pitches in one inning ?? c'mon. 13 max with 0 hits, with 1 hit, i'd go as high as 16....

jnwohio
04-18-2008, 12:31 AM
agree - 28 pitches in one inning ?? c'mon. 13 max with 0 hits, with 1 hit, i'd go as high as 16....;


I am no defender of DeCafe: but, it was a 5 "out" inning.

One ball that should have been an out was misplayed into an infield single. There was an error to allow another man to reach.

Also, Cowboy seemed to think DeCafe got shorted on some calls that ran up some counts too. And, a couple of the Cubs fouled off numerous pitches before putting he ball into play or striking out.

gedred69
04-18-2008, 12:45 AM
I have a sense that EE is at 3rd----as long as he keeps up something similar to the last few games. There is a plethera of prospects one of which will most likely displace him in a year or so. Coffey? Well he did okay today with a big lead. In tight situations he gets ahead and chokes, starts aiming his pitches, runs the count up, and ends up serving up a fat one. Too bad, as he has the stuff to be a lights out closer, but I think his mind is broken. Bring on Bray, who is apparently way too good for AAA. Then move up Thompson from AA. He is likewise way too good for AA. Isn't this a wonderful dilemna? The relievers in the system are stacked up one behind the other!

BigJohn
04-18-2008, 10:14 AM
Can he play first? Can Votto play 3rd?

bgwilly31
04-18-2008, 01:33 PM
You know ticks me off about EE. IS BUNTING!

Seriously learn how to bunt or dont play baseball.

Just one of the many reasons the reds cant win signifacant games. They do not focus on the fundamentals, the little things, that win you ball games.

Hondo
04-18-2008, 01:38 PM
Yeah, pitchers like Josh Fogg are dyslexic...

They go 2IP, 9ER instead of 9IP, 2ER

Those are the little things that would help the team win mor games

UC_Ken
04-18-2008, 05:47 PM
Seriously learn how to bunt or dont play baseball.

I couldn't agree more. I understand stars (Dunn, Griffey) getting a pass but if you're not a star player you'd better be ready to put down a bunt if the situation calls for it.

bgwilly31
04-18-2008, 06:03 PM
I couldn't agree more. I understand stars (Dunn, Griffey) getting a pass but if you're not a star player you'd better be ready to put down a bunt if the situation calls for it.


AMEN:thumbup:

Orenda
04-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Ok if your really going to get mad about EE's failed bunt then your missing the larger picture. EE didn't have a single sacrifice bunt in his career yet he was asked to bunt in that situation. To me it was an example of Dusty not knowing the strengths and weaknesses of his players, (and I actually am a Dusty fan) another example is Corey Patterson leading off, I'm sorry but it will never make sense to me.

And why do stars get passes? Last I checked those two haven't carried us to the postseason, what the reds organization needs in my opinion, is an atmoshpere where everybody knows their individual roles but are able to adapt in different situations. You can't have an atmosphere where certain players are put on a higher platform then the team if you want to win consistently. (without breaking the bank.)

CWRed
04-18-2008, 06:45 PM
First off about EE being a bad bunter. Good Lord. Get real. Bunting is the most overrated aspect of baseball. Giving the other team outs? That's great. Really. Dusty is to blame for that bonehead move before EE bailed him out.

Second, "Foolish play" by EE "sliding on his butt." Um, he slipped. If it had happened to Jr, then you'd say, "Oh man, it's the fields' fault" or "what a great try by Junior." Everyone get off EE's back. If he were where BP or Jr. were hitting in the lineup he'd be hitting .350. He produces at the bottom of the lineup being followed by a catcher, pitcher, and NorFreel Patterson. And for God's sake, when will Dunn move up except for one day? Dusty Dusty Dusty.:confused:

UC_Ken
04-18-2008, 06:54 PM
Ok if your really going to get mad about EE's failed bunt then your missing the larger picture. EE didn't have a single sacrifice bunt in his career yet he was asked to bunt in that situation. To me it was an example of Dusty not knowing the strengths and weaknesses of his players, (and I actually am a Dusty fan) another example is Corey Patterson leading off, I'm sorry but it will never make sense to me.

And why do stars get passes? Last I checked those two haven't carried us to the postseason, what the reds organization needs in my opinion, is an atmoshpere where everybody knows their individual roles but are able to adapt in different situations. You can't have an atmosphere where certain players are put on a higher platform then the team if you want to win consistently. (without breaking the bank.)

I agree with the first part. I'm not blaming EE for his failure to get down a bunt earlier in the year, it was Dusty's fault. But they should have been working on this with all their players not named Griffey or Dunn and probably had him practice doing it in game situations during spring training.

As far as the stars getting passes its just the way things are. I saw that Frank Thomas just set a record for most AB without a sacrifice bunt or was close to it. Managers believe, and I agree with them, that star hitters too dangerous to waste by bunting.

bgwilly31
04-18-2008, 07:25 PM
Ok i just dont understand how people that claim to know baseball can say things like BUNTING is one of the dumbest things in baseball.

I just dont understand.

How can you say that? This really deserves its own thread but since i cant post a new thread i have to respond here.

I almost feel stupid even trying to justify the bunt. I dont feel i should have to. Its almost like justifing using soap on your hands to wash them. Of course its useful.

Now you could make the argument that bunting in "Younger baseball" isnt as useful. Main reasons there are higher AVG's and higher error possibility.

But in the majors even great HITTERS get a hit 35% of the time. Most hitters less 30% of the time. Multiple base hit which could result in more than what a bunt would accomplish are even lower numbers. Now were talking 10-15% of the time or less.

Bunting SHOULD almost guaruntee RISP. 75%+

Not to mention the possibility of double play ground balls.

EE should know how to bunt. I dont blame dusty one bit. Humiliation is a great tool to get someone like EE to work on bunting. Unfortunately it back fired when he let him swing away and hit a walk-off hr.
Now im sure EE feels like he shouldnt bunt ever again.
How can you argue with a guy telling his player that is batting ehhhh somewhere around .083 at the time, not only the AVG but had been looking terrible at the plate?