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AmarilloRed
04-17-2008, 11:31 PM
From Fay:

Ch-Ch-Changes?

Dusty Baker talked a little bit about possible changes and then allowed this:

“It’s a very interesting situation,” Baker said.

How so?

"It's just interesting – the whole thing."

Here's some things I think you'll see:

--Josh Fogg will be out of the rotation. I don't know if he'll be off the team, but who starts is Baker's call. He's not big on Fogg. I'm told, in fact, that he didn't know the Reds were signing Foog until after the fact.

--Jerry Hairston Jr. or Jolbert Cabrera will be up here shortly. It's believed Hairston has an out in his contract after a month. He's hittting .429 with two home runs and 10 RBI with a .467 on-base and .785 slugging.

The Reds made no move Thursday.

“I’ve got to get home and talk to Wayne (Krivsky) first,” Baker said. “Wayne’s in Louisville now. We’ll talk on the phone or as soon as we get back.”

It was noted that starting pitchers and hitters are doing well in the minors. David Ross and Matt Belisle are due to come off the DL as well.

“Something’s got to shake out," Baker said. "And you’ve got some guys doing well down there. Guys we liked in spring training.”

posted by John Fay at 12:56 PM


We could see the following: Fogg out of the rotation and potentially off the roster, Hairston or Cabrera(or both) called up from the minor leagues, and Ross and Belisle both coming off the DL at about the same time. The only thing I think we can count on for sure is that there will be some considerable changes in the roster very soon.

Jack Burton
04-17-2008, 11:51 PM
Congrats to Fogg being out of the rotation. Give him a colorful suit and some face paint and he could work some birthday parties.

JBChance
04-18-2008, 12:09 AM
Not sure about Ross getting back on the squad right away. He's not exactly raking in his rehab at-bats: he's batting .167 (4-for-24) in nine Minor League games. :eek:

I did originally think we needed him back ASAP, but, dare I say it, Bako is playing well now.

No need to have Ross up swinging and missing right away. Let him get his groove back in AAA.

jnwohio
04-18-2008, 12:10 AM
Both in oppurtunity given and results produced, it seems safe to say that the torch was pretty clearly passed to Votto at first base in the Cubs series. What happens with Hatteburg may depend on some other situations. If Ross is ready to come back, it looks to me like the catchers are he and Bako which would mean either Javy or Hatte is the left handed bench bat and the other is gone.

I also think they make a choice between Hopper and Freel and bring up either Jolbert Cabrera or Jerry Hairston as the right handed bench bat to take the spot vacated by moving Hopper or Freel. Hopper looked to have the inside track; but Freel is more versatile in the field and has done better at the plate in the last week.

For better or worse, Castro looks safe to me until Gonzo is ready. You got to have a back up plan at short to cover until somebody could be brought up if there is an injury plus your SS needs a day off every couple of weeks. Dusty says Brandon Phillips is anchored at 2B. So that mean they have to carry a backup for SS. That's Castro.

On the pitching side, Fogg comes out of the rotation. I think for now at least, he sticks around as the long man. Belisle probably gets next shot at the #5 starter. DeCafe goes down to open the roster spot for Belisle. Which brings me to my possible sleeper move. Burton is throwing well but has been shaky in results because of mistake pitches. McBeth has been lights out at AAA. They might just flip those two to let Burton get the kinks worked out and to see what McBeth would do in the bigs.

jmac
04-18-2008, 12:22 AM
Congrats to Fogg being out of the rotation. Give him a colorful suit and some face paint and he could work some birthday parties.

Fogg isnt my choice for a rotation spot but as a person, I feel alittle sorry for him.
I mean the kid is what he is. He had a good contract offer with security and got bad advice, had to settle for much less and now my be looking at a release.
Also did anyone hear MB/JB after game last night talking about rotation help and MB asked Jeff who he would get and he said, Belisle.
Marty said "really ? I would like to see Homer "
Jeff repeated again Belisle and didnt say anything else about Homer.
I am beginning to think from his tone he used,Dougdirt may be right in that Jeff isnt too fond of Bailey.

JBChance
04-18-2008, 12:32 AM
Agree completely with Hatteberg. They are probably trying to move him. He is a good hitter/ pinch hitter/ day-off kind of guy. He just swings from the wrong side of the plate.

Ross may be coming, but I still think that's a little ways off

Between Hopper/Freel, I take Hopper because he's more of a lead-off guy for spot starts than Freel. However, my guess is that he would have to be traded rather than sent down. With his relatively big salary, not sure they can get teams to take a flyer (probably have been trying). So, especially if he continues to improve plate-wise, he'll stay and Hopper takes the bus.

I reluctantly agree about Castro. Late inning defensive replacement and spot-starter 'til (and if ever) Gonzo gets healthy.

Fogg may be a long relief guy, but I'm not sure. If his performance continues like it has, they may cut bait on him. He isn't making that much.

ChatterRed
04-18-2008, 02:33 AM
I thought Fogg was making one meal-yun dollars?

Hondo
04-18-2008, 02:36 PM
Fogg will probably catch on with St. Louis and win 16 Games while losing 1 for the Cards...

Then I will be upset.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2008, 03:33 PM
Which brings me to my possible sleeper move. Burton is throwing well but has been shaky in results because of mistake pitches. McBeth has been lights out at AAA. They might just flip those two to let Burton get the kinks worked out and to see what McBeth would do in the bigs.


Yeah, McBeth has been pretty good, but not better than Bray.

McBeth.... 4 games, 1-0, 2 saves, 4.1 ip, 1 hit, 3 bb, 3 k's, 0.00 era
Bray........ 5 games, 0-0, 1 save, 5.1 ip, 1 hit, 3 bb, 10 k's, 0.00 era

So I'd bring up Bray for Coffey....leave Burton where he is. He'll be fine. I'm trying to figure out who we send down to make room for Matt. To be honest, the pitcher I'm least impressed with out of the pen right now is Weathers. He's giving up more than a hit per inning worked and he's walked 6 while only striking out 1. He's simply put been ineffective. It might be close to the time to cut him loose. I'm sure there are some teams that will be willing to take him on.

kaldaniels
04-18-2008, 03:46 PM
Is there a time today that if a move is made we will hear about it...?

CySeymour
04-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Is there a time today that if a move is made we will hear about it...?

Not sure, but Wayne loves waiting later in the day to make most of his moves. It's like, if he announces things too early, he might actually have to answer questions about the move.

Mutaman
04-18-2008, 04:59 PM
I am a very patient man but how long does it take Wayne to get from Louisville To Cincinnati? Belisle (or Homer) should replace Coffey (with Fogg going to the bullpen) and Hairston should be called up. Why the delay?

Hey Meat
04-18-2008, 05:24 PM
Fogg will probably catch on with St. Louis and win 16 Games while losing 1 for the Cards...

Then I will be upset.

Then he would follow the trend set by Ryan Franklin and Kyle Lohse.

Hey Meat
04-18-2008, 05:25 PM
I am a very patient man but how long does it take Wayne to get from Louisville To Cincinnati? Belisle (or Homer) should replace Coffey (with Fogg going to the bullpen) and Hairston should be called up. Why the delay?


I think Castro has some good dirt on WK. Why is this guy still on the roster. Cut him loose

bgwilly31
04-18-2008, 06:02 PM
Isnt hairston JR a primary 2B. Im assuming he can play other positions rather well or we wouldnt even be thinking about it.

Bring up homer. Tie FOGG and Coffey up togther and drop them off a cliff.


Hopper is ok at best
Freel>I like his heart. But he's just not that good. OBP is terrible. He needs to be a lead off man. And hes not.

As for D.ROSS i guess i might be alone on this but IMO he's terrible. Most of his AB's he looks like a retard. Cant hit a curveball and every pitcher knows it. Apparently even AAA pitchers know it.

So i say keep J.Valentine for the moment. Or bring up somebody else to get some innings in. I cant imagine a new young kid doing much worse than valentine or ROSS.

CWRed
04-18-2008, 06:54 PM
From Rocko...

"Fogg isnt my choice for a rotation spot but as a person, I feel alittle sorry for him. I mean the kid is what he is."

And I thought he was what he was or is what he eats or flat out makes what he makes. I do know that he pitches what he pitches and hits what he hits.

The phrase, "Is what it is" should be thrown out with the garbage. Along with Cubs fans. :beerme:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I am what I am.

OldRed1966
04-18-2008, 10:40 PM
If Krivsky doesn't get some right handed bats with some pop up here after watching this inning tonight, then he needs to be fired. This is ridiculous.

Hondo
04-18-2008, 10:44 PM
Bases Loaded. Baker leaves Bako and Hatte in to strike out against a lefty?

This is BS. Somebody should be held responsible...

OldRed1966
04-18-2008, 11:00 PM
Bases Loaded. Baker leaves Bako and Hatte in to strike out against a lefty?

This is BS. Somebody should be held responsible...


Who else did he have?

malcontent
04-18-2008, 11:38 PM
Who else did he have?

Why not Valentin for Bako? If Yost brings in a RHP, Valentin hits lefty.

I know Javier is no great shakes as a RH hitter, but I think Baker had to make that move.

Why Hairston isn't in Cincy already, I have no idea.

forfreelin04
04-19-2008, 12:00 AM
Why not Valentin for Bako? If Yost brings in a RHP, Valentin hits lefty.

I know Javier is no great shakes as a RH hitter, but I think Baker had to make that move.

Why Hairston isn't in Cincy already, I have no idea.

I heard Hairson has an opt in his contract after month. If that is true, they'll have to make a decsion.

I disagree with putting alot of blame on Dusty. He may have actually helped his cause by leaving the lefties in. Maybe it would show Krivsky his true faults in being unable to fill out a 25 man roster.

A few notable examples:
1) As stated, no right handed even with decent pop off the bench. Castro is it! Freel and Hopper have Jason Romano type power.
2) Hopper/Freel-same strengths/same weaknesses
3) Hattberg/Votto-same strengths/same weaknesses. Although Votto seems to have the upper hand on hitting lefties. A platoon of exactly the same player is utterly ridiculous
4) Javy Valentin- not a good PH (see stats), not a good catcher (cant throw anyone out or call a good game, and is terrible from the right handed side of the plate
5) Todd Coffey<Bill Bray
6) Josh Fogg<Belisle, Bailey, Tom Shearn!

dougflynn23
04-19-2008, 11:37 AM
I'm not a Krivsky fan at all, but I think he tried to address the RH bench issue with Craig Wilson, who had he been healthy was the perfect component (RH, pop in his bat, RH 1B/LF/RF). I'd still like to see a "mercy trade" of Hatteberg to a place where he could play, give Votto 550 AB's and call up Andy Phillips of Jolbert Cabrera.

In an ideal world, you also had Keppinger on the bench as a RH bat.

jmac
04-19-2008, 01:12 PM
I'm not a Krivsky fan at all, but I think he tried to address the RH bench issue with Craig Wilson, who had he been healthy was the perfect component (RH, pop in his bat, RH 1B/LF/RF). I'd still like to see a "mercy trade" of Hatteberg to a place where he could play, give Votto 550 AB's and call up Andy Phillips of Jolbert Cabrera.

In an ideal world, you also had Keppinger on the bench as a RH bat.
Yes this Wilson situation showed just maybe WK realized there was a problem.
However once that fell thru, he should have done something else.
From his comments he made yesterday that was posted by someone on the ORG, he doesnt seem like a move is imminent in that regards.
Also I like having Hatt as a "sub" only though he hasnt exactly excelled at that lately.
Keppinger, he needs to start till "he" proves he shouldnt. That is whether AG is healthy or not.

757690
04-19-2008, 05:19 PM
Here's my fantasy moves that will not happen.

Trade Freel to anyone who will take his contract.
Send Hopper to AAA
Release Javy.
Release Weathers or DL him if possible
Send Coffey to AAA or DL him if possible


Bring up:

Colbert
Hairston
Bray

Activate Ross
Activate Belisle

I would love to trade Dunn and bring up Bruce in his place, but that is beyond a fantasy.

_Sir_Charles_
04-19-2008, 05:46 PM
So much for McBeth being "lights out" in Louisville. He got absolutely shelled last night. 2/3 of an inning, he gave up 5 hits, 7 runs, 2 bb & only 1 k. His era went from 0.00 to 12.60 all in one inning. Yikes.

Yeah, I'd say Bray's who should come up.

Stephenk29
04-19-2008, 05:51 PM
I don't know how you can justify releasing Wheathers. He hasn't started well but he's still one of the best options we have. Coffey is another story. The biggest roster changes we need are simple lineup changes. Keppenger should lead off, Votto, Dunn, Phillips, Griffey, Encarnacion, Patterson, Bako

757690
04-19-2008, 05:58 PM
I don't know how you can justify releasing Wheathers. He hasn't started well but he's still one of the best options we have. Coffey is another story. The biggest roster changes we need are simple lineup changes. Keppenger should lead off, Votto, Dunn, Phillips, Griffey, Encarnacion, Patterson, Bako

Agree about the lineup, but I would switch Votto and Dunn.

Concerning Weathers, my opinion of him is not based on his numbers but on seeing him pitch. He simply does not have the command nor movement of his pitches that he had last year. Maybe he is injured, which looks like the case today, but he has looked terrible in every appearance this season. At his age, chances are good that he is at the end of the line.

jmac
04-19-2008, 05:59 PM
From Rocko...

"Fogg isnt my choice for a rotation spot but as a person, I feel alittle sorry for him. I mean the kid is what he is."

And I thought he was what he was or is what he eats or flat out makes what he makes. I do know that he pitches what he pitches and hits what he hits.

The phrase, "Is what it is" should be thrown out with the garbage. Along with Cubs fans. :beerme:

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I am what I am.

Frankly sir,let me respond.
The comment I made was simply put this: no one signed him as cy young candidate and we all knew he wasnt a very good pitcher. He had a good contract offer which was better than a pitcher like him would normally get offered, got bad contract advice, passed it up and signed for a much much lesser contract and now is facing a possible release which could be done now without eating much of contract. Let me add this CW, I was speaking as far as him as a person.
When I say a person needs to be released etc, it is from a professional standpoint and not from any attack on a person's individual character. That is their job like we all have (most of us). Fogg as a pitcher isnt very or hasnt ever been very good. He had good long term security for his family but passed it up. that is what "feel alittle sorry" for refers to. It doesnt mean I wouldnt release or send down an individual that wasnt performing only that I would have a little sympathy when doing it.
Now back to your post:
That is also what "is what he is " refers to.
Did ya folllow?

Now thanks for adding a very stimulating input ! :rolleyes:

_Sir_Charles_
04-19-2008, 08:10 PM
I don't know how you can justify releasing Wheathers. He hasn't started well but he's still one of the best options we have.

I certainly wouldn't suggest releasing Weathers. But looking into possible trades for him would be a great idea.

I completely disagree with the opinion that he's still one of the best options out there. Heck, I didn't think he was good last year either. Everybody kept saying how good he was last year, but did any of these people actually watch him throw?!? The main reason people thought he was so good last year was because he was being compared to the rest of our attrocious bullpen from last year. Yes, he had a good number of saves (33). But people seemed to just look at that one number. He allowed 67 hits in only 77 innings. He gave up 27 walks. His era was 3.59. But when he was supposed to mow down the easy competition, he repeatedly failed to do so. The weak hitting Pirates lit him up last year for a whopping 11.81 era. The weak hitting Padres torched him for a 7.71 era. And last year was his GOOD year.

Look, I don't want to trash the guy, but he reminds me of Tom Hume. A firestarter...only last year he managed to put out his own blaze more often than not. He'd come in and immediately give up a hit or two and make everybody start worrying. Last year he managed to wiggle out of those jams he created. This year, he's not wiggling out. He's obviously nearing the end of his carreer and has absolutely no upside at this point. So we need to move him out of there and let some of the young power arms have a chance. Roenicke & Bray come to mind.

jaredbo
04-20-2008, 01:05 PM
Okay, if this team is going to win like they say they are dedicated to doing, something has to change. I am getting tired of hearing management say that "It is to early in the season to make a move". That is ridiculous, we are not quite 3 weeks into the season and the Reds are 5 games back, have been swept by Pirates, lost 2 of 3 to the Cubs, and could possibly be swept by the Brewers today. I think there have been some glaring weaknesses in the this lineup; Starting pitching (Arroyo and Fogg), Bullpen (Coffey, Weathers, Burton), Starting 8 (Patterson, Encarnacion). Here are the moves that I make to improve the team. Tell me what you think!

Weathers to the DL, Belisle up and to the bullpen
Release Fogg, Bailey up and into the starting rotation
Hopper to AAA or trade Freel/Hopper, Bruce up and starts in CF
trade Hatteberg, sign Frank Thomas

When Alex Gonzalez comes off the DL, release Castro
When David Ross comes off the DL, trade / release Bako

My starting lineup
SS Keppinger
1B Votto
2B Phillips
RF Griffey
LF Dunn
3B Encarnacion
CF Bruce
C Ross/Valentin/Bako

My starting rotation
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo
Volquez
Bailey

Bench
Freel/Hopper (whoever isn't traded)
Thomas
Patterson
Castro
Catcher

Bullpen
Cordero
Burton
Affeldt
Mercker
Belisle
Coffey
Lincoln

TN Red Fan
04-20-2008, 01:50 PM
We have one too many starting infielders when A-Gon comes back. There has to be a way we can pry Reggie Willits away from LA.

jaredbo
04-20-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't think A-Gon is a starter once he returns unless Keppinger is moved to 3B and Encarnacion is sent to AAA but I don't see that happening.

JBChance
04-20-2008, 03:53 PM
I don't think A-Gon is a starter once he returns unless Keppinger is moved to 3B and Encarnacion is sent to AAA but I don't see that happening.

I think they'll find a way to get him in the mix due the fact that he's a RHB. Unless they make some sort of move prior to that.

I do agree that Kepp should stay out on the field as a starter, once Gonzales comes back. Just not sure how they'll do it. With Votto getting hot, the platoon thing at 1B gets less likely. Although, it still makes sense sometimes. But, if Votto keeps raking, they'll have to keep him in as much as possible, due to our offensive struggling.

Maybe 3B is what happens. Depends on EdE. I still think that A-Gon's a ways off. Last report was about the same. He may not be healing as fast as they hoped.

Jack Burton
04-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Bench Dunn and Griffey.

JBChance
04-20-2008, 04:09 PM
Bench Dunn and Griffey.

:rolleyes:

gilpdawg
04-20-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't think A-Gon is a starter once he returns unless Keppinger is moved to 3B and Encarnacion is sent to AAA but I don't see that happening.
Edwin has a 10 game hitting streak now and appears to be much more comfortable in the field lately. He's not the problem! Jeez, people.:rolleyes:

BEETTLEBUG
04-20-2008, 04:22 PM
I keep Bako and trade or release Valantin. Bako is better catcher.

redhawk61
04-20-2008, 05:01 PM
We have one too many starting infielders when A-Gon comes back. There has to be a way we can pry Reggie Willits away from LA.

well he is in AAA caused they are log jammed up at ML club

Redeye fly
04-20-2008, 05:05 PM
I really think at this point Jimmy Haynes could come back and pitch 7 innings of 1 run baseball against this Reds lineup. It's like you're just waiting for something bad to happen and then know the offense won't pick the team up in any way afterward.

Redeye fly
04-20-2008, 05:10 PM
Then after I type that, back to back home runs. Does this offense start the game drunk or something? It's like they go through the motions early on and then try to do something late.

goreds2
04-22-2008, 06:23 AM
If Krivsky doesn't get some right handed bats with some pop up here after watching this inning tonight, then he needs to be fired. This is ridiculous.

On WLW last night, someone brought up an interesting idea of trading Dunn for right handed hitting Richie Sexson. I would even entertain Griffey for Sexson. Plus, Griffey would go back to Seattle.

Sexson will make 15 million plus this year though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5931

Prf15
04-22-2008, 08:22 AM
You want to stay far away from Sexson.

durl
04-22-2008, 09:42 AM
Where do the Reds get a RH hitter who will slam 40 HRs a season? And how much will it cost? THAT is the big question.

And I also don't believe Sexson is the answer. His last couple of seasons have been lackluster to say the least.

DTCromer
04-22-2008, 10:03 AM
Everyone wants a right-handed bat with pop, but no one wants to give anyone worth a damn to get it.

CySeymour
04-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Sexson plays first...what ya going to do with Votto? Plus, I don't think they Reds need an everyday right handed hitter. They need someone who can start sometimes and come off the bench.

UK Reds Fan
04-22-2008, 11:21 AM
Everyone wants a right-handed bat with pop, but no one wants to give anyone worth a damn to get it.

Wes Helms was DFAd by Phillies earlier this year. It was rumored he was offered straight up for Stanton....Krivsky sat by and kept Castro around instead.

Newman4
04-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Where do the Reds get a RH hitter who will slam 40 HRs a season? And how much will it cost? THAT is the big question.

Pat Burrell may not get 40HR, but fairly close. 60 million over 4 years probably would do it.

NorrisHopper30
04-22-2008, 12:04 PM
Trade Jay Bruce for Justin Upton.

Wyatt Earp
04-22-2008, 12:05 PM
I've always been a big fan of Pat Burrell and would love to get him.

Hondo
04-22-2008, 08:09 PM
Trade Jay Bruce for Justin Upton.

Why would either team do that?

Hondo
04-22-2008, 08:17 PM
I've always been a big fan of Pat Burrell and would love to get him.

I have really thought Highly of Pat Burrell but he is not going to produce the kind of numbers the team needs... Maybe he'll hit 35-40 Homers but he won't give you a High OB&#37;, and he will K way too often...

Personally I want to keep Adam Dunn so to have a Hitter like Burrell would be too close and I would rather have Dunn than Burrell...

This team needs a 3rd Baseman, ShortStop, or Catcher to be a right handed Cleanup Hitter...

Edwin has 5 Homers sure... Great but putting him in the 4 hole is going to cause regression.

I hate to say it but the best thing for the team is probably going to be when Griffey leaves so the Team can invest in a Right Handed Power hitting Outfielder that can play Center or Right Field...

This Board is going to Shoot me but I thought the Reds should have signed Andruw Jones last Offseason... If they were not going to call up Bruce...

Wasting 3 Million on Patterson was a joke if he is not going to play everyday, and one season with Griffey probably could have done Andruw Jones some Good... Plus no one could ever complain about the Centerfield Defense if Jones were here...

Krivisky just makes some really questionable decisions sometimes... For every Phillips and Volquez... There is a Long List of RE-TREADS that when you ADD up the Salarys... Doesn't make much sense... On the Field or Financially...

keeganbrick
04-22-2008, 09:04 PM
Id give about $25 mill a yr for Vlad Guerrero. We could probably get someone like Marcus Thames for cheap right now though.