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View Full Version : Time to move EE to 1B or OF?



Will M
04-18-2008, 12:32 PM
I know there have been a lot of posts on EE this year but I want to specifically address his defense. IMO EE isn't going to be adequate defensively at 3B. He isn't improving at all over the last couple of years.
I think it is time for the Reds front office to face facts and move him off 3B.

I think that he belongs at 1B or in the outfield.
His throws are the issue at 3B so I think he would be fine at 1B.
Whether he can play the OF I don't know but I suspect he could at least play LF.

flyer85
04-18-2008, 12:34 PM
since there isn't an open position in either place the answer is no.

Benihana
04-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Leave him at 3B. He'll be fine.

*BaseClogger*
04-18-2008, 12:36 PM
I imagine his range and arm strength would play well in LF...

*BaseClogger*
04-18-2008, 12:37 PM
since there isn't an open position in either place the answer is no.

Somebody has to play the OF next year. Dunn ain't re-signed yet...

RedsManRick
04-18-2008, 12:38 PM
If Dunn is not a Red next year and we don't trade for one, I think EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, and Gonzalez at SS is a very real possibility. But I don't think a move is necessary. Let him continue to work it out.

Benihana
04-18-2008, 12:39 PM
If Dunn is not a Red next year and we don't trade for one, I think EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, and Gonzalez at SS is a very real possibility. But I don't think a move is necessary. Let him continue to work it out.

Agreed. If Dunn is gone then maybe EE moves to LF, but I hope that Dunn won't be gone.

flyer85
04-18-2008, 12:47 PM
I imagine his range and arm strength would play well in LF...but his bat wouldn't

Will M
04-18-2008, 12:58 PM
If Dunn is not a Red next year and we don't trade for one, I think EE in LF, Keppinger at 3B, and Gonzalez at SS is a very real possibility. But I don't think a move is necessary. Let him continue to work it out.

1. I think Kep doesn't have the range to be an everyday major league SS. His natural position is 2B or 3B.

2. Gonzo is a major league average defensive SS.

3. So Keppinger at 3B and Gonzalez at SS works for me. EE can play LF, EE can play 1B with Votto in LF or EE can be traded. I think that we likely need EE's RH bat to balance out ( along with Phillips ) Bruce and Votto's LH bats.
In this scenario for 2009 both Dunn and Jr are gone!

4. I disagree with you on the 'let him work it out' part. I don't think he ever will work it out.

RedlegJake
04-18-2008, 01:00 PM
but his bat wouldn't

Right on. EE's bat is decent for third base but unless he really cranks it up he'd be one of the least productive LFers in the game. Maybe the pressure would be off defensively though and his bat would get better.

Add Kepp, good hitter but not a power bat at third and you then have 2 guys in power positions who aren't prototypical.

That's fine by me -you just have to replace that power somewhere else. Where? Bruce will be an upgrade over Junior defensively but I'll be tickled if he just matches Junior's bat. Votto will be a good hitter but more the .300/25 HR/402B kind of guy than a true power bomber. I'll bet my bank acount BP doesn't see 30 HR again. SS and C sure aren't going to be sluggers with AGon and Ross/Bako or whoever.

EE in left, Bruce in CF and a power hitting RFer in a trade might be the ticket, though.

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 01:01 PM
since there isn't an open position in either place the answer is no.


This is such an obvious, easy answer to a question that has no other possible answer.

klw
04-18-2008, 01:49 PM
Why not, after this season, move him to second and shift Phillips to short? Keppinger keeps 3rd occupied until Frazier or one of the other prospects claims it.

BRM
04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
I don't think the Reds have any desire at all to move BP to SS.

Falls City Beer
04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Why not, after this season, move him to second and shift Phillips to short?

I don't think so.

Will M
04-18-2008, 02:08 PM
This is such an obvious, easy answer to a question that has no other possible answer.

No it isn't obvious. IMO the Reds need to realize EE isn't going to get it done at 3B therefore come up with a PLAN for what to do with him. In the short term he'll stay at 3B but if the longer term plan is to resign Dunn and keep EE at 3B then that is a mistake.

Will M
04-18-2008, 02:11 PM
Right on. EE's bat is decent for third base but unless he really cranks it up he'd be one of the least productive LFers in the game. Maybe the pressure would be off defensively though and his bat would get better.

Add Kepp, good hitter but not a power bat at third and you then have 2 guys in power positions who aren't prototypical.

That's fine by me -you just have to replace that power somewhere else. Where? Bruce will be an upgrade over Junior defensively but I'll be tickled if he just matches Junior's bat. Votto will be a good hitter but more the .300/25 HR/402B kind of guy than a true power bomber. I'll bet my bank acount BP doesn't see 30 HR again. SS and C sure aren't going to be sluggers with AGon and Ross/Bako or whoever.

EE in left, Bruce in CF and a power hitting RFer in a trade might be the ticket, though.

Will M
04-18-2008, 02:11 PM
Right on. EE's bat is decent for third base but unless he really cranks it up he'd be one of the least productive LFers in the game. Maybe the pressure would be off defensively though and his bat would get better.

Add Kepp, good hitter but not a power bat at third and you then have 2 guys in power positions who aren't prototypical.

That's fine by me -you just have to replace that power somewhere else. Where? Bruce will be an upgrade over Junior defensively but I'll be tickled if he just matches Junior's bat. Votto will be a good hitter but more the .300/25 HR/402B kind of guy than a true power bomber. I'll bet my bank acount BP doesn't see 30 HR again. SS and C sure aren't going to be sluggers with AGon and Ross/Bako or whoever.

EE in left, Bruce in CF and a power hitting RFer in a trade might be the ticket, though.


Pretty much agree with all of this.

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 02:18 PM
No it isn't obvious. IMO the Reds need to realize EE isn't going to get it done at 3B therefore come up with a PLAN for what to do with him. In the short term he'll stay at 3B but if the longer term plan is to resign Dunn and keep EE at 3B then that is a mistake.


The question was whether to move EE off third today.

The answer to that is obvious.

And eventually giving up on EE at third is a long way off in any event.

Far East
04-18-2008, 02:19 PM
...EE in left, Bruce in CF and a power hitting RFer in a trade might be the ticket, though.

Or would the RH bats of Ross, Keppinger, Gonzalez, Encarnacion, and Phillips be sufficient to balance the LH bats of Bruce, Votto, and Patterson (assuming Cory stays as a platoon CFer, sharing time with a righty --Freel, or whoever)? (Ross most probably also would share PT with one of the catchers who hits from the left side.)

Assuming less of a need for a power righty than in the '08 lineup that includes both Dunn and Griffey.

Not to mention, the improved defense.

MikeS21
04-18-2008, 02:38 PM
EE in left, Bruce in CF and a power hitting RFer in a trade might be the ticket, though.
Unfortunately, your power hitting RF is playing CF for Texas Rangers now.

I know ... we need Volquez, but I really suspect that Krivsky could have landed Volquez for a lot less, and still kept Hamilton and all the other crown jewels. Drew Stubbs was, and is, a very popular baseball figure in Texas, and a deal of Stubbs and Maloney, would have probably landed Volquez. In fact I am much more unhappy with the Hamilton/Volquez trade than I was when the trade that sent Kerns to Washington went down. Don't get me wrong. I think Volquez is a great aquisition. I just think the Reds fell victim to some "logjam in the OF" mentalitiy (as were many fans), and they overpaid. And I think Krivsky was given a free pass by most of us because we assumed that by trading Hamilton, it was a clear signal that the Reds were convinced that Jay Bruce was ready to take over in CF. Well, Bruce is in Louisville, and I think an incredible amount of short-sightedness by the Reds' brass has been exposed, considering there is probably a 95% chance Junior will be gone and a better than 50% chance Dunn will be gone. The OF defense would have been fine this year with Hamilton in CF, before you moved him to a corner position next year. And Patterson still could have been signed as a 4th OF and late inning defensive replacement (moving Hamilton to LF).

Can you imagine a 2009 outfield with Bruce and Hamilton as your corner OF and Patterson as your CF? That would have become probably the best OF defense in the major leagues. And Hamilton/Bruce would eventually replace 90% of the offense you'd get from Dunn/Griffey. Their defense would more than make up for any drop off in offense.

How good would Cueto, Volquez, and Bailey be with that OF?

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 02:44 PM
Unfortunately, your power hitting RF is playing CF for Texas Rangers now.

I know ... we need Volquez, but I really suspect that Krivsky could have landed Volquez for a lot less, and still kept Hamilton and all the other crown jewels. Drew Stubbs was, and is, a very popular baseball figure in Texas, and a deal of Stubbs and Maloney, would have probably landed Volquez.

Your whole post was predicated upon us being able to obtain Volquez for spare parts and junk.

That's not likely anywhere close to accurate.

Texas probaly needed Volquez more than we do. They weren't looking to trade him. They were enticed to give him up because they really wanted Hamilton.


Reports had them very reluctant to move him, but did so to obtain Hamilton.

MikeS21
04-18-2008, 02:59 PM
Your whole post was predicated upon us being able to obtain Volquez for spare parts and junk.

That's not likely anywhere close to accurate.

Texas probaly needed Volquez more than we do. They weren't looking to trade him. They were enticed to give him up because they really wanted Hamilton.


Reports had them very reluctant to move him, but did so to obtain Hamilton.
Intresting, because some of the talk from BA was that some in the Rangers' organization felt Volquez had reached a plateau as a relief pitcher because of his inconsistency at getting the ball over the plate, plus the fact that he was primarily a two pitch pitcher.

That is the main reason the trade didn't sit well with me because the scouting reports weren't all that impressive on Volquez.

RedlegJake
04-18-2008, 03:02 PM
Your whole post was predicated upon us being able to obtain Volquez for spare parts and junk.

That's not likely anywhere close to accurate.

Texas probaly needed Volquez more than we do. They weren't looking to trade him. They were enticed to give him up because they really wanted Hamilton.


Reports had them very reluctant to move him, but did so to obtain Hamilton.

Absolutely agree. The idea the Rangers would give up Volquez for a package like Stubbs and Maloney is bunk.

PuffyPig
04-18-2008, 03:21 PM
Intresting, because some of the talk from BA was that some in the Rangers' organization felt Volquez had reached a plateau as a relief pitcher because of his inconsistency at getting the ball over the plate, plus the fact that he was primarily a two pitch pitcher.

That is the main reason the trade didn't sit well with me because the scouting reports weren't all that impressive on Volquez.

Volquez pitched 6 starts at the end of 2007 for Texas, and pitched pretty well.

No one was giving up on him. His value, at the time of the trade, was never higher.

He was a major league ready starter who had dominated AAA in 2007, with a fairly good 6 starts at the end of the year.

mth123
04-18-2008, 10:06 PM
EE was the guy to trade for pitching this off-season. Much like Freel was the guy to deal for pen help in the spring of '07. I'd be looking to move EE to Oakland, SF or Balt for help on the mound or behind the plate (or maybe a little of both).

IslandRed
04-18-2008, 11:02 PM
Volquez pitched 6 starts at the end of 2007 for Texas, and pitched pretty well.

No one was giving up on him. His value, at the time of the trade, was never higher.

He was a major league ready starter who had dominated AAA in 2007, with a fairly good 6 starts at the end of the year.

Yep. Beware of old scouting reports for young pitchers. Volquez did pretty much everything the Rangers could have asked in 2007.

But, people being people, I'm sure many in the Rangers organization were not immune to being disappointed by unfulfilled hype; after Volquez failed in his first couple of attempts after being rushed to the show, I'm sure some of them figured he'd never make it, despite his age and his improvement in 2007. This is where it's worth pointing out that the Rangers are not a club that has a long and proud history of being right about pitchers.

MikeS21
04-19-2008, 10:10 AM
Yep. Beware of old scouting reports for young pitchers. Volquez did pretty much everything the Rangers could have asked in 2007.

But, people being people, I'm sure many in the Rangers organization were not immune to being disappointed by unfulfilled hype; after Volquez failed in his first couple of attempts after being rushed to the show, I'm sure some of them figured he'd never make it, despite his age and his improvement in 2007. This is where it's worth pointing out that the Rangers are not a club that has a long and proud history of being right about pitchers.
And that's exactly my point. From what I read, some folks in the Rangers' organization might have soured slightly on Volquez, much the same way some folks in the Reds' organization may have soured slightly on Homer Bailey. Whether it was deserved or not isn't the point.

I absolutely love Edinson Volquez. Probably you all are right. The Rangers may not have accepted less in return. But I am not convinced that he couldn't have been acquired for less.

RedlegJake
04-19-2008, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=MikeS21;1608057]And that's exactly my point. From what I read, some folks in the Rangers' organization might have soured slightly on Volquez, much the same way some folks in the Reds' organization may have soured slightly on Homer Bailey. Whether it was deserved or not isn't the point. QUOTE]


Mike I do see your point, but let me ask you this. Yes, the Reds have soured on Homer but do you think they'd trade him for a high A outfielder with no bat and a AA-AAA pitcher with no fastball? Because that (Stubbs and Maloney) is the kind of package you think the Rangers would have taken. Now, would I trade Bailey to LA for Matt Kemp? Yep. But not for 2 prospects ranked in the bottom end of their top 20 list. Not for 2 prospects in the top 10 even. For Bailey I'd want something tangible and good in return.

AtomicDumpling
04-20-2008, 03:06 AM
Why not, after this season, move him to second and shift Phillips to short? Keppinger keeps 3rd occupied until Frazier or one of the other prospects claims it.

I think this is the best solution given the Reds' current personel. Phillips is definitely good enough with the glove to play shortstop. Keppinger is below average at short due to limited range, but would do nicely at 3B. Encarnacion has good enough range to play second, and his poor throwing footwork would not be nearly as problematic at 2B due to the extra time and shorter throws.

The only problem with shifting the players to those positions is that it takes time to learn and adjust. It would be an adventure to make the moves on the fly during the season. I think it might be worth it, especially if Gonzalez is going to be out for a long time (which would not surprise me a bit).

With all that being said, I am not convinced that Encarnacion will not become a good defensive third baseman eventually. I would be more skeptical if the problem was his arm strength, his fielding or his range. He is fine there. The problem is the footwork on his throws. That is not caused by a lack of talent or coordination. The problem is one that can be fixed with good coaching and lots of practice. I think a lot of it is mental too.

I would try to get him to take more time to set his feet properly. He is rushing things too much. I would rather he take the time to make a good throw even if it means he will be too late to get the out at first. A late throw is less harmful than a wild throw. A late throw will also likely go in the books as a base hit rather than an error.

Mike Schmidt and Buddy Bell were atrocious defensively early in their careers yet they ended up being very good.

Here is an odd bit of information:
Mike Schmidt averaged 20 errors per season in his 17 year career, won 10 Gold Glove awards and had a league-wide reputation as a great third baseman. Edwin Encarnacion averages 20 errors at the start of his career and everyone thinks he is awful with no hope of ever being a good third baseman.

Third base is a difficult position. You are very close to the plate. The ball will reach you in half the time it takes to reach a shortstop or second baseman. You often have to charge weak grounders and bunts and field them barehanded. You have to field the ball crisply and cleanly and then make a hurried throw all the way across the infield. Errors are going to happen -- even to the best of 'em.

Will M
06-23-2008, 10:09 PM
The more I see of EE the more I'd like to see him at 1B.
His defensive strengths are his quickness and range. These play just as well at 1B as 3B. His defensive weaknesses are his throwing and his charging of weak grounders ( and then throw to 1B ). These weaknesses are a non issue at 1B.

IF Dunn goes what about Votto to LF and EE to 1B?
Votto has made some nice plays at 1B but also a lot of errors.
He has played some LF in the minors. Also LF is the easiest defensive position to play. Kep could play 3B with Gonzo ( or an acquisition ) at SS.
I suspect Gonzo isn't tradable with his contract so we might as well get some use out of him. I also like trying to land Hank Blalock for 3B if/when the Rangers decline his 2009 option. He hits righties very well ( lefties not so much ). He could 'platoon' with Gonzo with Kep playing SS vs RHP and 3B vs LHP.

Then Walt can focus on finding a catcher and centerfielder.

OnBaseMachine
06-23-2008, 10:14 PM
The more I see of EE the more I'd like to see him at 1B.
His defensive strengths are his quickness and range. These play just as well at 1B as 3B. His defensive weaknesses are his throwing and his charging of weak grounders ( and then throw to 1B ). These weaknesses are a non issue at 1B.


Really? Man. I've always considered that a strength of his. Many times I've seen him come in and barehand and a slow roller and make a nice throw to first. I remember witnessing him make a play like that against the Indians back in mid-May when the Indians had a rally going and EdE charged in on a slow roller and nipped the runner at first to potentially save a big inning and the game. I would hate to see the Reds waste his great range by moving him to first base especially when Joey Votto is already over there and Yonder Alonso on the way.

Will M
06-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Really? Man. I've always considered that a strength of his. Many times I've seen him come in and barehand and a slow roller and make a nice throw to first. I remember witnessing him make a play like that against the Indians back in mid-May when the Indians had a rally going and EdE charged in on a slow roller and nipped the runner at first to potentially save a big inning and the game. I would hate to see the Reds waste his great range by moving him to first base especially when Joey Votto is already over there and Yonder Alonso on the way.

I've seen him several times glove the slow roller then have to transfer the ball to his right hand to throw, this gives the runner 1&1/2 steps.

Alonso hasn't played one game with a wooden bat so I think the Reds would be a bit foolish to be pencilling him in for anything. just my opinion.

OnBaseMachine
06-23-2008, 10:32 PM
I've seen him several times glove the slow roller then have to transfer the ball to his right hand to throw, this gives the runner 1&1/2 steps.

Every third baseman has to field the ball and then transfer it to their right hand to throw.



Alonso hasn't played one game with a wooden bat so I think the Reds would be a bit foolish to be pencilling him in for anything. just my opinion.

Not on the professional level but Alonso hit .338/.468/.497 - .965 OPS with a wooden bat in the Cape Cod league last summer.

Will M
06-23-2008, 10:36 PM
Every third baseman has to field the ball and then transfer it to their right hand to throw.

you barehand the slow roller and throw to first in one motion. i am talking bunts and very weakly hit balls



Not on the professional level but Alonso hit .338/.468/.497 - .965 OPS with a wooden bat in the Cape Cod league last summer.

good.

OnBaseMachine
06-23-2008, 10:39 PM
you barehand the slow roller and throw to first in one motion. i am talking bunts and very weakly hit balls


I've gotta disagree with ya. I've been impressed with EdE's defense on slow rollers. I've seen him make plenty of good plays on slow rollers that most major leaguers don't make. Plus his range is some of the best I've seen from a 3B in a while.

boognish
06-23-2008, 10:41 PM
I think "EE is bad at third and will continue to be" is a false premise, and further disagree with the notion that he has not improved.

However, time is ticking on him. I'd give him until the middle of next season to start mashing line drives and return to the doubles machine he showed he could be when he first came up; otherwise the Reds will be overpaying for league average or slightly below offensive production at 3B due to escalating arbitration salaries (end of 2009). His bat does not play further down the defensive spectrum.

As PP and flyer stated, the answer to the question is an easy "no."

flyer85
06-23-2008, 10:42 PM
EEs bat likely doesn't play well at 1b of LF.

Spring~Fields
06-23-2008, 10:59 PM
I would just like to see the errors reduced at 1B and 3B.

WVRed
06-23-2008, 11:08 PM
Long term, id rather have Votto in LF. We have Alonso at 1B, hopefully.

VR
06-23-2008, 11:09 PM
I've gotta disagree with ya. I've been impressed with EdE's defense on slow rollers. I've seen him make plenty of good plays on slow rollers that most major leaguers don't make. Plus his range is some of the best I've seen from a 3B in a while.

I see it like you OBM. Very very good range.....just has a little Saxitis on those Sunday hoppers in which he has all day to throw. I really think maturity will be a major friend to EE, allowing him to not overthink things.

Spring~Fields
06-23-2008, 11:20 PM
Since many agree that Encarcion has good 3rd baseman skills quickness, range and fielding would he be a better first baseman than Votto?

If Jocketty moves Dunn, would Votto be just as good a left fielder as Dunn or better?

Who plays third if EE was moved?

Must be me, but it seems like a chunk of something is missing here.

Spitball
06-23-2008, 11:27 PM
I've never seen Votto in left field, but perhaps he is better suited to that position. He has some speed and might develop if he were to work at the position. As a first baseman, he flubs plays he should make. Those appear to be basic reactionary skills and those sometimes just can't be improved to an acceptable level.

Encarnacion, on the otherhand, has great reactionary abilities but poor footwork. Every throwing error I've seen the guy make has been a result of poor footwork. That can be improved. I once worked with a third baseman on his footwork by slowly rolling balls baseballs to different locations, having him set his feet, and throw. After several hundred rolls and throws, he had the rote muscle memory required to make the throws.

I'd try Votto in left before I'd move EE. If Encarnacion could put up better offensive numbers, he'd make a great first baseman. However, I haven't given up on his chances at third.

Spring~Fields
06-23-2008, 11:29 PM
The only problem with shifting the players to those positions is that it takes time to learn and adjust. It would be an adventure to make the moves on the fly during the season. I think it might be worth it, especially if Gonzalez is going to be out for a long time (which would not surprise me a bit).



I understand under the norms, but the Reds are basically playing extended spring training now as far as competing for the wildcard or division and Baker like many managers, positions his various players at different positions on a need be basis now. You did not say or imply this, but I donít see how it would be a devastating experiment if they tried some personnel at different positions now.

Ron Madden
06-24-2008, 03:59 AM
It isn't easy to find guys to play the hot corner with Edwins quikness and range. Let's hope the footwork improves with time and experience.

Most of us forget just how young and inexperienced EE was when he was brought up. He's still young and still learning. I believe Edwin will be a very good all around player.

GAC
06-24-2008, 07:52 AM
Long term, id rather have Votto in LF. We have Alonso at 1B, hopefully.

And I think some are over looking Alonso simply because there is no guarantee he'll even make it. And there is some truth there. There is always that chance with any prospect.

But IMO, that's why they drafted this college-level kid.... possibly a quicker leap to the ML level. And then again.... it could be, if he becomes a top prospect within the organization, that Walt could use either Alonzo or Votto as trade bait in whatever his scheme (direction) is.

And I still say the best SS on this team is Phillips. I understand the apprehension, due to him excelling at 2B, of wanting to move him. But I think this kid is so athletic and has such great range, he'd excel at SS.

And 2B is Kepp's natural position.

But unless this FO can trade Gonzo (which is doubtful because no one wants this guy), then he will be our starting SS for Dusty in '09.

If EE continues to struggle offensively, then Kepp will be given the shot at 3B because they have to find a spot for his bat on this team.

I look for Walt going for an OFer either at the trading deadline or in the off-season. And I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't dangle Harang and/or Arroyo to get it.

blumj
06-24-2008, 09:23 AM
But unless this FO can trade Gonzo (which is doubtful because no one wants this guy), then he will be our starting SS for Dusty in '09.
Will he be healthy enough, for long enough, to get in the way? I think the Reds might be best served by thinking of him as permanently unavailable to play until he proves he is available to play.

bucksfan2
06-24-2008, 09:30 AM
I've never seen Votto in left field, but perhaps he is better suited to that position. He has some speed and might develop if he were to work at the position. As a first baseman, he flubs plays he should make. Those appear to be basic reactionary skills and those sometimes just can't be improved to an acceptable level.

Encarnacion, on the otherhand, has great reactionary abilities but poor footwork. Every throwing error I've seen the guy make has been a result of poor footwork. That can be improved. I once worked with a third baseman on his footwork by slowly rolling balls baseballs to different locations, having him set his feet, and throw. After several hundred rolls and throws, he had the rote muscle memory required to make the throws.

I'd try Votto in left before I'd move EE. If Encarnacion could put up better offensive numbers, he'd make a great first baseman. However, I haven't given up on his chances at third.

IMO Votto's problem is more of footwork than anything. He is somewhat new to 1b and I expect to see him improve over there. He may be too athletic to play 1b but then again I think he has the upside to be one of the best defensive 1b in the game.

I don't think EE is the long term answer at 3b. He makes the spectacular play with relative ease but he is lazy on the routine plays. Im not really concerned with how Edwin would rank vs 3b or LF or 1b I want the reds to have the ability to put the best 8 positions players on the field.

IMO Edwin is in a tough spot. He has a better player playing 1b, the Reds just drafted a college 1b who was considered the best bat in the draft. The Reds two best position prospects are LF, 3b, 2b types in Fraizer and Valakia. I wonder if Jocketty hopes he gets hot then moves him?

GAC
06-24-2008, 09:47 AM
Will he be healthy enough, for long enough, to get in the way? I think the Reds might be best served by thinking of him as permanently unavailable to play until he proves he is available to play.

For the remainder of this season I agree. But he'll be healthy for next year, and I guarantee you that he'll be Dusty's starting SS unless Walt makes some moves. If not Phillips, there really is no answer in-house for the SS position other then Keppinger who has very limited range at that position. he's capable; but is he our long term answer at SS?

Will M
06-24-2008, 09:48 AM
Will he be healthy enough, for long enough, to get in the way? I think the Reds might be best served by thinking of him as permanently unavailable to play until he proves he is available to play.

that makes sense. hopefully he comes back before the end of the year and gets some playing time so we can see what we can expect of him in 2009

Krusty
06-24-2008, 01:10 PM
Could Edwin be the second coming of Tony Perez? Tony started at third and was shifted to lst base when Lee May was dealt.

Now, could the Reds actually upgrade their defense with Encarnacion at lst, Keppinger at third and Votto in LF? Alot of Encarnacion's errors has been on throws and his range would be an upgrade at lst. Keppinger's knock on defense is his range at shortstop but shift him to third and he is a defensive upgrade. Votto in LF would be interesting, especially to see if he is an upgrade defensively over Dunn.

If that happen, do you go with Gonzalez at shortstop in the final year of his contract mainly for his defensive purposes? The way I see it, the Reds would need to go out and get a top flight centerfielder to go with Votto and Bruce in the outfield. If Jockerty could get that top flight centerfielder and upgrade the catching position with a definite upgrade to the bench, this team could be interesting.

TRF
06-24-2008, 02:03 PM
However, time is ticking on him. I'd give him until the middle of next season to start mashing line drives and return to the doubles machine he showed he could be when he first came up; otherwise the Reds will be overpaying for league average or slightly below offensive production at 3B due to escalating arbitration salaries (end of 2009). His bat does not play further down the defensive spectrum.

As PP and flyer stated, the answer to the question is an easy "no."

He is that LD hitter right now. and his HR power has improved as well. I think he needs to stop pulling the ball so much


If EE continues to struggle offensively, then Kepp will be given the shot at 3B because they have to find a spot for his bat on this team.

He's not struggling. He was last month (an awful month for a lot of the Reds regulars) but he's OPSing .945 in June, .940 in April. I hope he struggles like that all the time.

camisadelgolf
06-24-2008, 02:06 PM
How old is he? 25? 26? Man, it's a shame he was called up prematurely. I'd give him time. I think he'll be an average defensive third baseman when it's all said and done.

Reds1
06-24-2008, 02:21 PM
EE is actually looking good at 3B. I wouldn't move him now. Now Dunn to 1B is an option and Votto to OF