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View Full Version : An example of how putrid the Reds' offense is.



killuminati35
04-19-2008, 04:05 PM
I was watching the Cubs game today and they knocked out the Pirates pitcher, Gorzelanny, after 2.2 innings. He allowed 7 earned runs. Several weeks earlier the Cubs faced the same pitcher and knocked him out in 2.1 innings. He also allowed 7 earned runs. The Cubs have scored 14 runs off Gorzelanny in 5 innings.

What did the Reds do against Gorzelanny? They scored 1 run off four hits in 6.1 innings.

I'm glad I'm not a starting pitcher for the Reds...

Redeye fly
04-19-2008, 04:09 PM
Joey Votto is coming to get you.:p:

But yes, one home run does not an offense make.

redsupport
04-19-2008, 04:11 PM
who needs walks lets swing at the first pitch baker is the man statisticians are idiots

BamaRed
04-19-2008, 04:14 PM
who needs walks lets swing at the first pitch baker is the man statisticians are idiots

Ever hear of the concept of punctuation?

mlbfan30
04-19-2008, 04:20 PM
So now that EE is hitting better than BP, does that mean BP should go on the bench when Agone returns?

Redeye fly
04-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Off topic, but Mike Lincoln was fairly nasty last half inning.

jmac
04-19-2008, 04:59 PM
I was watching the Cubs game today and they knocked out the Pirates pitcher, Gorzelanny, after 2.2 innings. He allowed 7 earned runs. Several weeks earlier the Cubs faced the same pitcher and knocked him out in 2.1 innings. He also allowed 7 earned runs. The Cubs have scored 14 runs off Gorzelanny in 5 innings.

What did the Reds do against Gorzelanny? They scored 1 run off four hits in 6.1 innings.

I'm glad I'm not a starting pitcher for the Reds...

He is a lefty as is Maholm, Grabow, etc. Thanks to Votto they did do damage vs Lilly.
However I do agree with you to a another angle. I would love to know what the opponents ERA is vs reds as starters & relievers.
It seems like for the last couple of years, the reds do not do much to speak of till late in game. Therefore our starters do not get the amount of wins they could from an offense that starts early.
Alot of times our offense gets started against good quality relievers so it doesnt always appear to be the relievers are just bad.
BTW I may add I am not saying they score enough "when" they get started.
Example last night 2 runs and Saturday 2 in the 7th.

jhiller21
04-20-2008, 04:04 AM
So are Dusty's lineups really hurting us this bad? They can't be. Lineups are meaningless, after all ;)

I'm not even concerned with what Brook Jacoby does anymore, I'm wondering what Dusty's done to turn all of our hitters into judys who ground out on the first or second pitch of every at-bat.

It seems like every time the Reds bat in an inning there are 2 outs before you can even look up. There are serious patience issues here, and Dusty's "aggressive" approach might be part of the problem.

This team hasn't had pitching in 8 years, but we have had hitters who could wait on a good pitch and show some patience at the plate. Now that we have a little pitching we're swinging at garbage and throwing some really good outings away.

I understand the lack of a true RH power hitter, and RH pop off the bench, but even the lefties are hacking away as of late.

captainmorgan07
04-20-2008, 11:06 AM
Even before Baker got here this offense was always up and down. We've always had guys who were impatient and struck out alot. Jacoby must take the fall for some of these guys. What is he doing with these guys for crying outloud.

AdamDunn
04-20-2008, 12:39 PM
just a thought... the last year Dusty was with the Cubs, they had one of the worst (maybe even the worst) offenses in the league and had the worst OBP.

TN Red Fan
04-20-2008, 01:45 PM
I think hot and cold streaks just happen in baseball.

Plus, we replaced Josh Hamilton and his .926 OPS with Corey Patterson and his .746 OPS. That's no small thing.

Kingspoint
04-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Patterson gets a lot of credit today for getting two walks.

Baker has Kepp and Votto batting directly behind Dunn today. Phillips and his speed is in the #2 hole. It was a great lineup. It's sad that after 9 innings there was only 1 run.

They are now, I believe, 9-2 when they score more than 3 runs in a game.

Kingspoint
04-20-2008, 06:04 PM
I think they're now 9-2 when scoring more than 3 runs in a game.

The record will improve once they start scoring.

And it's not a question of "if" Dunn will hit.

He'll explode when he does and carry this team.

bubbachunk
04-20-2008, 09:10 PM
With the players on the big league roster Dusty is doing his best to find a mix that works he cant hit for everyone

keeganbrick
04-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Yea, this has been going on for a couple of years now. A lot of our hitters have been swinging at the first pitch.

mroby85
04-21-2008, 01:39 AM
i swear people will find a reason to blame dusty no matter what! he is putting the right guys in the right spots, and they simply just aren't producing right now. it's a slump that will end, and this team will be fine! we're going to be playing in october this year!

AmarilloRed
04-21-2008, 01:54 AM
I think hot and cold streaks just happen in baseball.

Plus, we replaced Josh Hamilton and his .926 OPS with Corey Patterson and his .746 OPS. That's no small thing.

A good point. I have always been one who supported the Hamilton trade, as we seem to have gotten a quality starting pitcher for him. However, we seem to have some quality starting pitchers in the minors with Belisle and Bailey and others; I am not sure whether the trade was necessary at this point. Hamilton is absolutely tearing it up for Texas right now; we clearly miss him in our lineup.

757690
04-21-2008, 02:07 AM
A good point. I have always been one who supported the Hamilton trade, as we seem to have gotten a quality starting pitcher for him. However, we seem to have some quality starting pitchers in the minors with Belisle and Bailey and others; I am not sure whether the trade was necessary at this point. Hamilton is absolutely tearing it up for Texas right now; we clearly miss him in our lineup.

I was thinking the same thing, but then I remembered that the Reds have Jay Bruce. I think the offense will take off once Bruce is up and in the lineup everyday, which should be soon.
Last year Braun had the same effect on the Brewers.

mlbfan30
04-21-2008, 02:37 AM
I was thinking the same thing, but then I remembered that the Reds have Jay Bruce. I think the offense will take off once Bruce is up and in the lineup everyday, which should be soon.
Last year Braun had the same effect on the Brewers.

But Brauns main reason staying down was to work on his defense. He wasn't really blocked by anyone.

In this case Bruce is blocked by Patterson, a Dusty favorite. It also doesn't help that Dusty thinks of Bruce as a RF.

I have a feeling it might take longer than most people think before Bruce gets called up. I'd say June is the earliest, and probably July.

Kingspoint
04-21-2008, 03:54 AM
I was thinking the same thing, but then I remembered that the Reds have Jay Bruce. I think the offense will take off once Bruce is up and in the lineup everyday, which should be soon.
Last year Braun had the same effect on the Brewers.


If you look throughout the REDS' organization, they don't have a "true" Centerfielder that's going to have an OPS of .800 or an OBP of .380 at the Major League level over the next 5 years unless they draft one out of College this year, but that will still take at least 3 years.

So, Dusty's going to have to accept the fact that we'll be putting Left Fielders and Right Fielders in Center Field for a few years. Take Bruce and his superior bat and go with it. In a year or two the defense in RF or LF or both is going to be better anyway.

jhiller21
04-21-2008, 04:23 AM
It may help the team's offense come to life, but there's not a whole lot, Baker said, that can be done about getting Dunn another good pitch in an at-bat.

"He's not going to see many," Baker said. "He has to be ready for that one. What's happening, he's getting the pitch, but he's fouling it straight back. That tells me he's on the pitch, but he's just under it."

Dunn is hovering at the Mendoza line, with a .200 batting average (10-for-50) entering Sunday's series finale against the Brewers. He has just two homers. But the silver lining is that Dunn leads the Majors with 20 walks, which have pushed his on-base percentage to .423.

"The batting average doesn't match the on-base percentage," Baker said. "We're having some good at-bats, man. That's why I'm so positive we're on the brink of getting hot."

But Baker also knows the big dog's got to eat. Bonds made a living by feasting on that one pitch and stayed disciplined enough at the plate to keep his walk totals up. Sluggers live for knocking the ball out of the park, and although Dunn's hungry, Baker said the Texan hasn't gotten frustrated.

"You don't want to get frustrated, and neither one of those guys get frustrated about it," Baker said. "But you don't want to be lulled to sleep either when that pitch [you can hit] comes."

Any reason why Dunn's OBP doesn't match up with his batting AVG? Maybe there's no reason for pitchers to give him anything to hit, Dusty.

BLEEDS
04-21-2008, 12:13 PM
Patterson gets a lot of credit today for getting two walks.

Baker has Kepp and Votto batting directly behind Dunn today. Phillips and his speed is in the #2 hole. It was a great lineup. It's sad that after 9 innings there was only 1 run.

They are now, I believe, 9-2 when they score more than 3 runs in a game.

I really liked that lineup as well.

I would prefer to swap Kepp and BP. Kepp is your prototypical #2 hitter. BP is the antithesis. BP at #5 gives you the NON-OBP RBI hacker to give pitchers hesitancy to put AD on the bases via the walk just a tad more. Votto behind him gives you another real hitter to worry about.

7th seems about the best spot for EE right now, until perhaps August when he usually seems to put things together.

CP continues to be black hole of SUCK in the #1 spot unfortunately.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
04-21-2008, 12:16 PM
I was thinking the same thing, but then I remembered that the Reds have Jay Bruce. I think the offense will take off once Bruce is up and in the lineup everyday, which should be soon.




In this case Bruce is blocked by Patterson, a Dusty favorite. It also doesn't help that Dusty thinks of Bruce as a RF.

I have a feeling it might take longer than most people think before Bruce gets called up. I'd say June is the earliest, and probably July.

Soon = 2009

Everything else is just banter.

PEACE

-BLEEDS