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REDREAD
04-19-2008, 11:44 PM
I was glad to see Cueto have another good outing.

I was really pleased to see Coffey have a nice outing yesterday. While I'm sad to see Weathers hurt, I did fear that Coffey would be sent down. I really want the Reds to keep him up all year and give him a shot to rebound back.
Keep putting him in low pressure situations and give him a chance to figure things out (Much like they did with Burton last year). This guy clearly has talent and I'd like the Reds to have patience with him this year, particularly with the relative dearth of young relievers in the organization.

It's great to see Votto hitting well, particularly that HR vs the LH reliever today. EdE is starting to improve a little bit to, so perhaps the offense can get back on track.

Bullpen is still very shaky, IMO, but hopefully things settle down. Lincoln looks to be a good find so far. Hopefully he can take over Weathers' role.

Hopefully Harang can break the losing streak tommorrow.

Any other thoughts on the first two games?

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 12:09 AM
The offense just can't seem to get it going. That's twice in less than two weeks that Jeff Suppan, who is a very average pitcher, has shut them down. The Reds have scored three runs in 13.2 innings against him this season. Not good. The offense needs help. I'd be getting Jay Bruce up here pronto. Do you realize the Reds have already lost five games this season in which the pitching staff allowed four runs or less in nine innings? With just a little offense in those games then we could be looking at a 12-6 or 11-7 or even 10-8 record. Poor Cueto - they've scored a combined 10 runs in his four starts. He's pitched well enough to be 3-1 as opposed to 1-1. They have especially looked bad in this series hacking at just awful, awful pitches. Last night in the 9th Valentin swung at a 3-2 pitch that bounced in front of the plate that would have loaded the bases. Bako followed him by swinging at a 3-1 pitch shoulder height. And Griffey today, I was baffled by what he did in the 9th inning. He was ahead 3-0 on Mota and swung at a 3-0 pitch in the dirt. I was stunned by that.

On the bright side, Johnny Cueto and Joey Votto have been brilliant. Votto is hitting .500 against lefties. Cueto has a Pedro Martinez-esque 3 BB/29 K ratio in 26.1 innings. Very, very impressive.

WVRedsFan
04-20-2008, 12:11 AM
I was glad to see Cueto have another good outing...Any other thoughts on the first two games?

Yes. The hitting. It still is apalling. I haven't given up the thought that maybe we've faced some exceptional pitchers, and tht surely was the case with Sheets on Friday night, but during the 8-game slide, we've faced:

Maholm - who has pitched 10 inings with a 8.10 ERA
Snell - who has an ERA of over 5
Gorzelanny - who has allowed 10 runs in 8 innings against everyone else.
Dempster - having a good year
Zambrano - good pitcher who was on that day
Lilly - took care of him in our only win
Suppan - this guy has pitched 10.1 innings agains the rest of the league
and has allowed 15 hits and 8 runs for a 7.20 ERA and yet he
looked llike Cy Young against us.
Sheets - good pitcher who is having a whale of a season

We should have hit Maholm Snell, Gorzelanny, Lilly, and Suppan. We only hit Lilly.

Cueto pitched well today after a rough couple of innings, but Cordero, though he did the job, looked shaky and Weathers is just so hittable. HE's meant so much to this team the last two years, but he really isn't pitching well (and I hope he's OK).

Lots of problems and no answers yet. Maybe it has to do with Dusty's philosophy of always swinging at the first pitch "if it's a good one." I don't know but to see Dunn, Encarnacion, and others just doing nothing makes me want to pull my hair out.

marcshoe
04-20-2008, 12:21 AM
On the bright side, Johnny Cueto and Joey Votto have been brilliant. Votto is hitting .500 against lefties. Cueto has a Pedro Martinez-esque 3 BB/29 K ratio in 26.1 innings. Very, very impressive.

On the radio today, Brantley made up a little for his pre-EE home run comments a week or so ago. When Votto came up against Shouse, he said that some may be asking why the Reds didn't send up a RH bat to pinch hit, and the answer was that Votto didn't hit lefties bad at all. On cue, Votto hit his home run.

It's time to find another home for Hatteberg (trade him to someone who has more use for him; don't expect a return), but the problem with finding a right-handed bat to platoon with Votto at first base is that this isn't the position where the Reds need to switch out. Votto hits LH pitching too well. It would be ideal if they could find a decent-hitting righthanded centerfielder, but I got nothin'.

WVRedsFan
04-20-2008, 12:38 AM
It's time to find another home for Hatteberg (trade him to someone who has more use for him; don't expect a return), but the problem with finding a right-handed bat to platoon with Votto at first base is that this isn't the position where the Reds need to switch out. Votto hits LH pitching too well. It would be ideal if they could find a decent-hitting righthanded centerfielder, but I got nothin'.

tixe, I think the problem is that no one wants him or his contract. Sad to say, but the market for 38+ year old first basemen who are slow and can't hit left-handers is pretty non-existant. One of the problems with this team picking up his final year was that it seems he was retained because he is a nice guy and was a good clubhouse guy. No matter, he'll finish out the year with us and then retire.

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 01:47 AM
One other thing about the offense - at one point today Jeff Suppan retired five batters in a row on a total of 12 pitches. That is awful and should never happen. Votto led off the inning and swung at the first pitch and smoked it but Fielder leaped and robbed him of a double. I have no problem with a guy like Votto swinging at the first pitch because he's got the power to drive it out of the park. But then Bako followed him with a first pitch flyout. Why Paul? Take a pitch or two in that situation.

Tony Cloninger
04-20-2008, 01:53 AM
Team is 2nd in NL in walks.....even if Dunn has 20 of them they still are not being any less patient with Dusty as the manager. They just have everyone slumping at the same time...and a really bad bench.

WMR
04-20-2008, 02:04 AM
I continue to absolutely detest Dusty's batting order construction.

redsrule2500
04-20-2008, 02:12 AM
Our offense is bad. Not sure what it is because on paper we seem decent.

guttle11
04-20-2008, 04:26 PM
If that 10th inning doesn't get this team going...I don't think anything will.

Great effort from Harang. 8IP, 4 H, 8K, 0BB, ND. The guy has the worst luck of any starter in the league, I'd guess. If the pen isn't blowing his leads, the opposing pitcher is locking down the offense.

Big ups to Edwin. Yeah, his defense is bad at times but he never lets it effect him outwardly. He just keeps working and today it paid off greatly.

Matt700wlw
04-20-2008, 04:27 PM
It's time for Jay Bruce.

jesusfan
04-20-2008, 04:27 PM
okay... 8-11 is a whole lot better than 7-12! We need to start heating up now!

WMR
04-20-2008, 04:29 PM
It's time for Jay Bruce.

If that's what it's going to take to get Corey Patterson out of the lead-off spot I'm all for it.

Razor Shines
04-20-2008, 04:34 PM
If that's what it's going to take to get Corey Patterson out of the lead-off spot I'm all for it.

What you don't like CP1for23?

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2008, 04:35 PM
I continue to absolutely detest Dusty's batting order construction.

Keppinger
Votto
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Bako
Patterson
P

It isn't rocket science, folks.

guttle11
04-20-2008, 04:39 PM
What you don't like CP1for23?

I like it.

I like CP0for3 better.

Razor Shines
04-20-2008, 04:43 PM
I like it.

I like CP0for3 better.

That's good too. I was just trying to work his uni number into it, but either one makes an outstanding nickname for him.

Mario-Rijo
04-20-2008, 04:44 PM
Keppinger
Votto
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Bako
Patterson
P

It isn't rocket science, folks.

Agreed but it may very well be political science. Baker just like those before him will not place Griffey where he needs to be in any lineup, and that is keeping us from putting others where they need to be. I hope they buy him out and don't try to re-sign him. Sure he's a great guy but his days of being anything more than a complimentary (DH) bat are over.

Razor Shines
04-20-2008, 04:48 PM
Agreed but it may very well be political science. Baker just like those before him will not place Griffey where he needs to be in any lineup, and that is keeping us from putting others where they need to be. I hope they buy him out and don't try to re-sign him. Sure he's a great guy but his days of being anything more than a complimentary (DH) bat are over.

Griffey being in the 3rd spot is by far not the biggest problem with the current line up. Besides he should hit 4th and Phillips should hit 5th. Griffey still gets on base at a nice clip, BP doesn't.

Honestly if Baker would make the other needed changes to the line up I'd be fine with Jr. 3rd and Dunn 4th.

I am somewhat worried that Votto still hasn't taken a walk this season. I wonder if it's just a coincidence or if Dusty's hitting method has gotten to him. Sure he's hitting well right now, but if he goes into a slump and still isn't taking walks he's really going to kill the offense. It's early and he's been a patient hitter his entire career hopefully he'll be fine.

Mario-Rijo
04-20-2008, 05:03 PM
Griffey being in the 3rd spot is by far not the biggest problem with the current line up. Besides he should hit 4th and Phillips should hit 5th. Griffey still gets on base at a nice clip, BP doesn't.

Honestly if Baker would make the other needed changes to the line up I'd be fine with Jr. 3rd and Dunn 4th.

We'll see if you feel that way at the end of the season. I'm not saying you are wrong but I don't feel the same. I am of the opinion that when the pitching get's better (typically June) this offense will look even worse as long as Jr is hitting in the top 4. And by the end of the season the majority might be saying what I have been thinking since late last season Jr.'s days as an above avg bat are gone.

But I hope I am wrong.

There is alot of other problems with this offense but most of it is due to politics. The best lineup always gives each individual a chance to succeed but when one or 2 pieces are out of place it effects everyone which is what you have here the domino effect.

Spring~Fields
04-20-2008, 05:05 PM
I loved todays outcome, totally surprised me, what beautiful day for baseball.

Always Red
04-20-2008, 05:13 PM
There is alot of other problems with this offense but most of it is due to politics.

How so, Mario?

Are you referring to a Dusty favorite, Patterson, leading off and playing CF? I agree there are a lot of problems with the O, just wondering your take on how most of them are political?

Not being snarky, just asking. I have no problem with CP playing CF (he's the best the Reds have had out there in years, IMO- on defense). I agree with nearly everyone here who has a problem with him leading off, and most of us had that problem from day one.

RFS62
04-20-2008, 05:29 PM
If we're going to keep him in the lineup, Dusty needs to tell him he's been inspired by his buddies LaGenius and Yost and we're moving him to the most important spot in the lineup - ninth.

Dusty needs to tell him something like "Look what it's done for Kendall. It's still like hitting leadoff, Corey. It's double secret leadoff..... much better.

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Very nice win. Hopefully this is one of those wins that sparks the club and they go on to win about seven or eight of 10. Aaron Harang pitched another gem, too bad the offense wasted that great start. As well as Cueto and Harang pitched, the Reds should have won two of three.

Tom Servo
04-20-2008, 05:32 PM
I turned the game off in disgust after the first run for the Brewers in the 10th. Thrilled to hear the losers didn't lose. :beerme:

BCubb2003
04-20-2008, 05:53 PM
Eric: Gone. Yay.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2008, 05:55 PM
Eric: Gone. Yay.

Good to know another team can occasionally fork out a bad contract.

Big Klu
04-20-2008, 06:06 PM
Keppinger
Votto
Dunn
Phillips
Griffey
Encarnacion
Bako
Patterson
P

It isn't rocket science, folks.


Agreed but it may very well be political science. Baker just like those before him will not place Griffey where he needs to be in any lineup, and that is keeping us from putting others where they need to be. I hope they buy him out and don't try to re-sign him. Sure he's a great guy but his days of being anything more than a complimentary (DH) bat are over.

As Mario-Rijo said, it may be political science. So allow me to present a variation on your theme:

Votto 1b
Keppinger ss
Dunn lf
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Encarnacion 3b
Patterson cf
Bako c
<pitcher>


Votto and Keppinger are getting on base, and Keppinger in the #2 spot means that there aren't three consecutive lefties in the order. (Votto also has the better speed of the two, IMO.)

Dunn benefits from Griffey's protection, and Griffey saves face by still hitting in a prime (#4) position.

Phillips is ideally suited for the #5 spot in the order. Encarnacion would currently be in the #6 spot, but could move up to #2 or #5 later in the year, if needed.

Corey Patterson might thrive in the #7 spot, like Brandon Phillips did two years ago--he has a good blend of power and speed, but he doesn't get on base at a high clip. Bako's offense so far at #8 is a bonus--leave him there even when he cools off, or until David Ross returns.

MrCinatit
04-20-2008, 06:08 PM
Eric: Gone. Yay.

Is it just me, or is he looking a bit heavy? I know he has always been big - but that middle spread seems to be taking up some uniform.

Big Klu
04-20-2008, 06:10 PM
Good to know another team can occasionally fork out a bad contract.

That's called, "Hitting the panic button after losing Francisco Cordero, and realizing that all you have left is Derrick Turnbow."

Always Red
04-20-2008, 06:10 PM
Is it just me, or is he looking a bit heavy? I know he has always been big - but that middle spread seems to be taking up some uniform.

Nah, I think the post-steroid era version of Gone Yeah is smaller than the one who used to pitch for the Dodgers. He was friggin huge back then.

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2008, 06:12 PM
That's called, "Hitting the panic button after losing Francisco Cordero, and realizing that all you have left is Derrick Turnbow."

Eric Gagne -- baseball's equivalent of picking a girl up on the rebound.

Big Klu
04-20-2008, 06:13 PM
Is it just me, or is he looking a bit heavy? I know he has always been big - but that middle spread seems to be taking up some uniform.

I thought he looked like a slob Saturday aftenoon. He came into the game with his shirt tail nearly out--the tag sewn onto the bottom of the shirt tail was clearly visible. And you couldn't see his belt, either.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 09:14 AM
tixe, I think the problem is that no one wants him or his contract. Sad to say, but the market for 38+ year old first basemen who are slow and can't hit left-handers is pretty non-existant. One of the problems with this team picking up his final year was that it seems he was retained because he is a nice guy and was a good clubhouse guy. No matter, he'll finish out the year with us and then retire.


That's true. It's easy to forget that Hat was unemployed 2 or 3 years ago when the Reds signed him.

Since many teams carry 11 or 12 man pitching staffs, there's not a whole lot of room for a guy like Hat that can only play 1b.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 09:16 AM
PAtterson even had two walks on Sunday, IIRC :lol: