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View Full Version : Why doesn't Phillips bunt?



Chip R
04-20-2008, 06:27 PM
I thought Dusty was Mr. Small Ball. I've seen him sacrifice with every player except Jr. and Dunn but not with Brandon. It's not that I'm advocating it nor am I putting this on Brandon. Today in the 1st and 10th innings the Reds had a speedy runner on 1st with no outs and runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out respectively and Dusty doesn't even have Brandon square around. Do 30 HR hitters not have to sacrifice?

KronoRed
04-20-2008, 07:08 PM
He was keeping the brewers off guard ;)

Spring~Fields
04-20-2008, 10:48 PM
This doesn't answer why Phillips didn't bunt today.

I have been wondering where the rest of his hitting game is and if it is going to improve.

When Phillips came we were given a picture of a young ss or second baseman with skills but a love for the homerun suggesting that it was hurting his development at the plate. I am wondering if Phillips hitting 30 last year and being put in the cleanup spot this year might be hindering his over all ability to grow into a more productive hitter, getting on base via walks, bat control, hitting to various fields in the different situations that come up along with power numbers and yes bunting taking advantage of his speed when merited.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2008, 11:20 PM
Phillips needs to stop sucking posthaste.

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Phillips needs to stop sucking posthaste.

The way he's swinging every time, it looks like he's got 40-40 on the brain. Someone needs to smack him in the back of the head and remind him that doubles and singles are his friend, posthaste.

reds44
04-20-2008, 11:47 PM
Phillips needs to stop sucking posthaste.
So does Adam Dunn.

RedsManRick
04-21-2008, 12:10 AM
Dunn: .200/.423/.360 (.783 OPS)
Phillips: .269/.329/.403 (.733 OPS)

Both guys need to step it up for sure. Nobody is really lighting it up. Of the expected contributors, only Votto, Keppinger, and EE are really pulling their weight. Just for reference...



Player AB+BB OPS Career OPS
Keppinger 82 .873 .811
Bako 54 .868 .624
Encarnacion 74 .862 .796
Votto 47 .851 .915
Griffey 77 .777 .927
Dunn 74 .753 .898
Patterson 65 .732 .712
Phillips 78 .709 .725
Freel 31 .581 .733
Hopper 27 .561 .760
Valentin 25 .541 .707
Hatteberg 32 .533 .773

Chip R
04-21-2008, 12:15 AM
You can't blame Brandon for going for the long ball. 30/30 got him a multi-year big money deal here.

reds44
04-21-2008, 12:24 AM
Corey Patterson is OPSing better than his career average.

Now there is a scary thought.

Spring~Fields
04-21-2008, 12:27 AM
You can't blame Brandon for going for the long ball. 30/30 got him a multi-year big money deal here.

No but are they doing what is best for his development and the team? I thought that he might have superstar written in his future "if".

Spring~Fields
04-21-2008, 12:31 AM
The way he's swinging every time, it looks like he's got 40-40 on the brain. Someone needs to smack him in the back of the head and remind him that doubles and singles are his friend, posthaste.

I agree.
I thought that if he was gettnig those singles and doubles that homeruns would follow when he is swinging the bat well.

Chip R
04-21-2008, 12:53 AM
No but are they doing what is best for his development and the team? I thought that he might have superstar written in his future "if".


"The team" gave him a multi year deal for hitting 30 HRs and stealing 30 bases, playing great defense and being a good ambassador to the fans. If he'd done all that but only hit 10 HRs last year, he'd be going to arbitration with the Reds instead of getting that multi-year deal. They are paying him to hit those HRs so why should he do any different?

That is one of the paradoxes of professional sports. What's good for the player may not be good for the team and vice versa.

Spring~Fields
04-21-2008, 12:56 AM
Good points. It will all work out.

WVRedsFan
04-21-2008, 01:01 AM
Brandon reminds me of a not so pleasant player from the past. If you remember one Pokey Reece. Pokey hit a few dingers and it went to his head. He swing for the fences on every at-bat. It finally became his downfall.

Watching Phillips the last 10 games, he's swinging harder than normal and trying to hit the ball out. Surely someone else has noticed this that matters and will work with him.

Oc course this may be much ado about nothing. He's a streak hitter and he's not in a strak right now. I just hope he comes around.

reds44
04-21-2008, 01:11 AM
Brandon reminds me of a not so pleasant player from the past. If you remember one Pokey Reece. Pokey hit a few dingers and it went to his head. He swing for the fences on every at-bat. It finally became his downfall.

Watching Phillips the last 10 games, he's swinging harder than normal and trying to hit the ball out. Surely someone else has noticed this that matters and will work with him.

Oc course this may be much ado about nothing. He's a streak hitter and he's not in a strak right now. I just hope he comes around.
With the offense struggling, he could be trying to do too much as well. Trying to get 8 runs with every AB.

Far East
04-21-2008, 08:55 AM
Player AB+BB OPS Career OPS
Keppinger 82 .873 .811
Bako 54 .868 .624
Encarnacion 74 .862 .796
Votto 47 .851 .915
Griffey 77 .777 .927
Dunn 74 .753 .898
Patterson 65 .732 .712
Phillips 78 .709 .725
Freel 31 .581 .733
Hopper 27 .561 .760
Valentin 25 .541 .707
Hatteberg 32 .533 .773

Has it been tried, that is, a lineup consisting of the best OPS guys at the top of the order followed by lower and lower OPS guys in descending order?

Keppinger .873
Bako .868
Encarnacion .862
Votto .851
Griffey .777
Dunn .753
Patterson .732
Pitcher .???
Phillips .709

BTW, in this lineup, the sac bunting pitcher follows a good base runner, and a speedy Phillips precedes the top of the order. But it does not break up the LH hitters.

When/if the numbers change, for example, if Bako's OPS and Dunn's interchange, then so would their positions in the lineup.

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 09:47 AM
I thought Dusty was Mr. Small Ball. I've seen him sacrifice with every player except Jr. and Dunn but not with Brandon. It's not that I'm advocating it nor am I putting this on Brandon. Today in the 1st and 10th innings the Reds had a speedy runner on 1st with no outs and runners on 1st and 2nd with 1 out respectively and Dusty doesn't even have Brandon square around. Do 30 HR hitters not have to sacrifice?

Other than the pitcher, no one should ever bunt with one out and runners on first and second. Actually, anytime there is one out, a player shouldn't be bunting unless he is trying for a basehit or the suicide squeeze.

Chip R
04-21-2008, 09:57 AM
Other than the pitcher, no one should ever bunt with one out and runners on first and second. Actually, anytime there is one out, a player shouldn't be bunting unless he is trying for a basehit or the suicide squeeze.


I agree but Dusty's done it before with other players. Why not with Brandon?

RedsManRick
04-21-2008, 10:22 AM
It's hard to bunt from your heels, so BP has to stick to swinging.

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 10:27 AM
I agree but Dusty's done it before with other players. Why not with Brandon?



Dusty has not bunted anyone with one out, except the pitcher.

dabvu2498
04-21-2008, 10:27 AM
It's hard to bunt from your heels, so BP has to stick to swinging.

To me, it looked like Phillips made pretty decent contact all weekend. Hit a couple "attem" balls and just missed one or two others.

I'll confess I didn't see either game in Chicago, so I don't have the slightest idea what his issue was there.

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 10:28 AM
Has it been tried, that is, a lineup consisting of the best OPS guys at the top of the order followed by lower and lower OPS guys in descending order?

Keppinger .873
Bako .868
Encarnacion .862
Votto .851
Griffey .777
Dunn .753
Patterson .732
Pitcher .???
Phillips .709

BTW, in this lineup, the sac bunting pitcher follows a good base runner, and a speedy Phillips precedes the top of the order. But it does not break up the LH hitters.

When/if the numbers change, for example, if Bako's OPS and Dunn's interchange, then so would their positions in the lineup.

Assuming that Bako is a better hitter than Dunn and Griffey, based on a small sample size, and constructing the lineup accordingly, would be a very poor idea.

BRM
04-21-2008, 10:31 AM
It's hard to bunt from your heels, so BP has to stick to swinging.

:laugh:

No doubt. It would be funny to see it tried though.

RedsManRick
04-21-2008, 10:42 AM
Has it been tried, that is, a lineup consisting of the best OPS guys at the top of the order followed by lower and lower OPS guys in descending order?

Keppinger .873
Bako .868
Encarnacion .862
Votto .851
Griffey .777
Dunn .753
Patterson .732
Pitcher .???
Phillips .709

BTW, in this lineup, the sac bunting pitcher follows a good base runner, and a speedy Phillips precedes the top of the order. But it does not break up the LH hitters.

When/if the numbers change, for example, if Bako's OPS and Dunn's interchange, then so would their positions in the lineup.

That's a bit of a stretch but the general point is right. Aside from choosing the right guys in the first place (something Dusty has actually done pretty well), the #1 rule of building a productive lineup is giving the most at bats to the best hitters. With acknowledgment that EE and Votto have surged quite recently, there's every reason to believe that they will be 2 of the 4 more productive Reds this season. I'd think the best compromise lineup in terms of managing egos and whatnot while maximizing production looks like:

Keppinger
Dunn
Griffey
EE
Votto
Phillips
Patterson
Bako

I really like EE cleanup because in the first pass of the lineup he's either batting with men on base in the first or he's leading off in the 2nd. Either way, it takes good advantage of his skill set.

Or you could go a more conventional EE 2nd, Dunn 3rd, Junior 4th. One of the advantages there is that both EE and Dunn are flyball hitters, leading to fewer double plays. That would also take a bit more advantage of Dunn's power, while maintaining the MOB in the 1st or leadoff the 2nd scenario.

Chip R
04-21-2008, 10:45 AM
Dusty has not bunted anyone with one out, except the pitcher.


O.K., what about the 1st inning where nobody was out and Patterson was on 1st?

Far East
04-21-2008, 02:34 PM
Assuming that Bako is a better hitter than Dunn and Griffey, based on a small sample size, and constructing the lineup accordingly, would be a very poor idea.

While Bako is over-achieving, perhaps he should bat ahead of Dunn, until when/if his regression begins.

Same could be said about any other two hitters: as soon as Phillips is out-hitting Patterson, they flip-flop.

RedsManRick
04-21-2008, 02:37 PM
While Bako is over-achieving, perhaps he should bat ahead of Dunn, until when/if his regression begins.

Same could be said about any other two hitters: as soon as Phillips is out-hitting Patterson, they flip-flop.

The regression should be expected to happen as early as their next at bats. Bako has done well and Dunn has struggled, but that has very little bearing on how well they're likely to do over their next at bat, 10 at bats, 100 at bats.

Streaks happen -- but they are retrospective only. You can't project them forward with any accuracy.

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 03:05 PM
While Bako is over-achieving, perhaps he should bat ahead of Dunn, until when/if his regression begins.



You'd be changing the batting order every day based on that theory.

Dunn has a better chance of doing better than Bako starting his next AB. I don't care what has happened to date.

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 03:07 PM
O.K., what about the 1st inning where nobody was out and Patterson was on 1st?

You want Phillips to bunt then, after a leadoff walk?

I wouldn't do it, and there would be a scream heard half way around Redszone if he had.

Chip R
04-21-2008, 03:13 PM
You want Phillips to bunt then, after a leadoff walk?

I wouldn't do it, and there would be a scream heard half way around Redszone if he had.


I wouldn't do it either but I'm just curious, as I said in my original post, why Dusty didn't since he's the champion of small ball.

dabvu2498
04-21-2008, 03:23 PM
I wouldn't do it either but I'm just curious, as I said in my original post, why Dusty didn't since he's the champion of small ball.

Even the biggest proponents of smallball (usually) don't order up the sacrifice in the first.

Highlifeman21
04-21-2008, 04:44 PM
The way he's swinging every time, it looks like he's got 40-40 on the brain. Someone needs to smack him in the back of the head and remind him that doubles and singles are his friend, posthaste.

That was the number in mind when I wondered if Phillips could BB 40 times, and GIDP 40 times, all due to the fact that he probably considers himself to have 40 HR power. I see no reason Phillips can't SB 40, but in terms of his swing, I see something eerily similar between his swing and Justin Upton's swing of late. Long swings, not looking to just put the ball in play...

PuffyPig
04-21-2008, 04:49 PM
I wouldn't do it either but I'm just curious, as I said in my original post, why Dusty didn't since he's the champion of small ball.

Based on my observations this year, that reputation is unwarrented.