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WVRedsFan
04-20-2008, 11:50 PM
Is it just me or is this place really quiet and docile lately? The Reds won a game today in dramatic fashion and even while searching in the crevices of the board, I've found maybe 20 posts tops on the game. I don't know whether I'm just out of the loop or we're not supposed to do that anymore, but I found it strange. And someone with the real figures might be able to dispute this, it's just an observation.

My theory is game threads keep the conversation going, but I could be wrong about that too. Then again, maybe this is the intent.

RedsManRick
04-20-2008, 11:57 PM
It's a weird point in the season. It's early enough that we don't really know much about anything and aren't too anxious to start taking real action. However, it's past the early stages of hanging on every day as a sign of an impending breakthrough or doom. The reality of the 162 game season is upon us. It's a Sunday night in late April and everybody is waiting for things to start shaking out.

That said, I do think you're right about the role of game threads. They're like the CNN of RedsZone. They force a topic de jour even when there's not really anything new to talk about. Give it another week or so and I think we'll have a better sense of it.

AtomicDumpling
04-21-2008, 12:16 AM
I think it is a lack of fresh blood in the arena. When you have the same people here for a long period of time eventually you reach a point where everything has been said. Unless there is a regular infusion of fresh people then the conversations will become stale.

Aronchis
04-21-2008, 12:21 AM
It may get more interesting after Belisle's first start. I think he holds the Reds keys this year.

Spring~Fields
04-21-2008, 12:39 AM
The team has taken us on quite a roller coaster ride so far. There are a couple obvious moves but the team is stonewalling us on those, and seeing what results they might bring, so we are left to just ponder for the moment.

WVRedsFan
04-21-2008, 12:56 AM
I do think you're right about the role of game threads. They're like the CNN of RedsZone. They force a topic de jour even when there's not really anything new to talk about. Give it another week or so and I think we'll have a better sense of it.

Those were my thoughts. Regardless of how awful they might have become lately, they present ideas. One poster will propose that David Weathers is over the hill and a couple of threads in ORG spring up with theories. Conversation happens. There are so many knowledgeable people around here ane when they participate in the game threads, it makes me think. It's only been a few days, but I miss the game threads.

One more point. The game threads are a historical record of the attitudes of Reds fans from a point in time. I went back tonight and read the posts in game threads from early 2006 when things were really going good. then I read the same posters when things got bad. It's an amazing study in human nature.

Chip R
04-21-2008, 01:03 AM
I actually find it kind of refreshing - not only as a moderator but also as a fan. Without all the hyperbole from the game threads, it might be a nice change. But I think there's still plenty to talk about. If Belisle gives up more than 3-4 runs Monday night and the Reds can't get any offense going, people are going to be wanting to send him back to LOU.

WVRedsFan
04-21-2008, 01:11 AM
I actually find it kind of refreshing - not only as a moderator but also as a fan. Without all the hyperbole from the game threads, it might be a nice change. But I think there's still plenty to talk about. If Belisle gives up more than 3-4 runs Monday night and the Reds can't get any offense going, people are going to be wanting to send him back to LOU.

Thus my point that maybe it was by design. It makes it easier on the mods, but does it add to the conversation here? Does it improve the experience? Does it make it worth stopping by?

I can't answer those qustions intelligently, but I do know that after a tremdnous comeback by the Reds in a game everyone thought was lost, and the halting of another skid.

I think it's probably time for all of us to re-evaluate what RedsZone is. Is it the free flow of information about the Reds with those that step over the line being put out with the trash or is it a docile board where people lose interest but makes the job of running it easier?

Obviosuly, that's a little bit hyperbole and a little bit truth in my statements. Of course, the history of the game reeks with hyperbole, but let's not let that get in the way of conversation. What Belisle does is already known. He'll either have it or he won't. Trouble is, a lot of folks will just not tune in.

cumberlandreds
04-21-2008, 07:09 AM
IMO, the lack of a game thread has made it very quiet. Game threads often started consversations but since we don't have that anymore I think people are just sitting back, watching the games and keeping to themselves.

Ltlabner
04-21-2008, 07:28 AM
This will be very unpopular, but frankly Redszone has dropped from being the first website I check to down the laundry list of sites I visit. I'm sure people will rush to gush about how RZ is the best site on the internet, has the greatest people in the world, blah blah.

Maybe it's the natural progression of things, but after a while, there just isn't anything new or interesting being posted. Basically it's someone posting a thought, another poster taking issue with it, 8 more people jumping into the fray and the result is 15 pages of gibberish. Sure, there might be an interesting statement in there, but it's usually burried beneath the same general group of people arguing with each other about the same stuff. Serriously, how many times can we argue about the same old crap?

Like I said, maybe it's just the normal progession. Join, really dive in, spend hours a day and then gradually over time get bored. Maybe the board really hasn't changed, and it's all me. I mean, at first there were a lot of really new ways to think about baseball. But now I've pretty much absorbed a lot of the new philosphies (not saying I agree or understand them all) so what's there left to dicuss? Marty is a jerk? Send EE down? John Allen was a dork? The Reds will always suck? Yawnnnnn....

I don't know, there just seems to be far more important things in life than spending hours arguing on the internet with complete strangers. The interest in RZ was new information and ideas about baseball, the arguing frankly was fun, but secondary. Now that the "thrill" of arguing about the same old crap is done, it's laid bare that their really aren't any fresh conversations going on about baseball in these parts.

Some might argue that there are great threads and post a link or two to them. But frankly I just don't have the desire to sift through the junk threads to get to an interesting new metric, or a new idea on pitching utilization, or a historical study of XYZ.

I guess this is sort of a rambling catharsis about RZ. I'm sure there are many thinking, "thank god he isn't around much". Then again, there are also likely some devistated by the loss of my pithy commentary. Nate likely is.

membengal
04-21-2008, 08:17 AM
I know it wasn't meant to be this way, but the whole game thread thing has really chilled my desire to participate or start any threads in this forum.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 08:38 AM
I think I agree that the lack of game threads makes it less appealing to come in and talk about what happened in a game. Especially after some lineup threads got locked down.
Kind of a buzz kill. I was thinking on Sunday how fun it would've been to read and talk about Burton blowing the lead, followed by the come back.. But now, it's unclear if you're even allowed to talk about that, even hours later.

Like someone else said, if you can't talk about the games during the season, there's not much left to talk about.

redsmetz
04-21-2008, 09:07 AM
I think I agree that the lack of game threads makes it less appealing to come in and talk about what happened in a game. Especially after some lineup threads got locked down.
Kind of a buzz kill. I was thinking on Sunday how fun it would've been to read and talk about Burton blowing the lead, followed by the come back.. But now, it's unclear if you're even allowed to talk about that, even hours later.

Like someone else said, if you can't talk about the games during the season, there's not much left to talk about.

Actually Burton didn't "blow the lead", the game was tied at the time. EE's error allowed the Brewers to take the lead on his error on what in all likelihood would have been a double play. Of course, without that, the win lacks the requisite drama, don't you think?

klw
04-21-2008, 09:47 AM
We are also at that point in the season where the excitement of the start of the season has worn away and the team is not on fire. At the same time it is still too small of a sample size to make conclusions about how the team or an individual will do for the year or in a certain role. It is also a time when it is too early to make conclusions on how Dusty will pan out. Soon we can throw stats out there and not face the small sample size problems all of the time.

nate
04-21-2008, 09:58 AM
Then again, there are also likely some devistated by the loss of my pithy commentary. Nate likely is.

In chat, we poured one out for you.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 10:26 AM
Actually Burton didn't "blow the lead", the game was tied at the time. EE's error allowed the Brewers to take the lead on his error on what in all likelihood would have been a double play. Of course, without that, the win lacks the requisite drama, don't you think?

Burton put the runners on and didn't get out of the jam. He gave up two runs. EdE's error did not help, but Buirton put the go ahead runs on base before the error. Burton did not have a good outing, although EdE's error made it worse.

Edit: Ok, the game was tied, so he didn't blow the lead.. I should've said "appeared to blow the game"

redsmetz
04-21-2008, 10:53 AM
Burton put the runners on and didn't get out of the jam. He gave up two runs. EdE's error did not help, but Buirton put the go ahead runs on base before the error. Burton did not have a good outing, although EdE's error made it worse.

Edit: Ok, the game was tied, so he didn't blow the lead.. I should've said "appeared to blow the game"

Not to quibble, and you are right that he put the runners on, but he made the pitch that would have gotten out of the winning. While it's affects his WHIP and his baserunner stats, the fact is, he had pitched out of the jam. That's not blowing it (or appearing to blow it). That's effective pitching; albeit with some heart stopping. Was it his best outing, no? But he was getting out of the inning with the pitch if it's played right.

nate
04-21-2008, 11:02 AM
Not to quibble, and you are right that he put the runners on, but he made the pitch that would have gotten out of the winning. While it's affects his WHIP and his baserunner stats, the fact is, he had pitched out of the jam. That's not blowing it (or appearing to blow it). That's effective pitching; albeit with some heart stopping. Was it his best outing, no? But he was getting out of the inning with the pitch if it's played right.

Right. I don't think he even "appeared to blow the game"; neither run was "earned" and he struck out two. EE just misplayed the error ball but more than made up for it in the home half.

OnBaseMachine
04-21-2008, 11:06 AM
Burton put the runners on and didn't get out of the jam. He gave up two runs. EdE's error did not help, but Buirton put the go ahead runs on base before the error. Burton did not have a good outing, although EdE's error made it worse.

Edit: Ok, the game was tied, so he didn't blow the lead.. I should've said "appeared to blow the game"

Burton didn't pitch bad yesterday. You always seem to be taking shots at Burton despite him pitching well. In yesterday's outing he struckout Bill Hall, walked Gross after a couple close pitches went against him, he then made a nice pitch to Counsell who was able to line it to left. Even Thom mentioned it wasn't a bad pitch, just a solid piece of hitting. Kendall follows by hitting a would be inning ending routine doubleplay ball that EdE botched. That was hardly Jared Burton's fault. I can't believe some of the crap Burton takes on here - check out his career line so far: 53.2 IP, 38 H, 4 HR, 25 BB, 54 K, 3.02 ERA, .603 OPSA.

If he played for any other team Reds fans would be clamoring for Wayne to acquire him. I can only imagine what Reds fans would be saying about Wayne right now had the team behind the Reds selected Burton in the Rule-5 draft a couple years ago.

Falls City Beer
04-21-2008, 11:20 AM
My guess is that they won; misery brings out posting, in most cases.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 01:07 PM
Not to quibble, and you are right that he put the runners on, but he made the pitch that would have gotten out of the winning. While it's affects his WHIP and his baserunner stats, the fact is, he had pitched out of the jam. That's not blowing it (or appearing to blow it). That's effective pitching; albeit with some heart stopping. Was it his best outing, no? But he was getting out of the inning with the pitch if it's played right.

I'm not sold on Burton. His last inning did not inspire much confidence to me.

I think it was foolish for Wayne to assume that Burton would continue pitching as well as he did last year (likewise for Weathers).

Now I'm not saying we should DFA Burton, but there's no way I can be convinced that his Sunday appearance was "Good".

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 01:09 PM
Burton didn't pitch bad yesterday. You always seem to be taking shots at Burton despite him pitching well.

I'm not convinced that Burton is a setup-caliber reliever.

Even so, he has value on this team.

He hasn't been very impressive so far this season, but that's ok. It was reasonable to expect him to come back to earth this season.

OnBaseMachine
04-21-2008, 01:12 PM
It's only been 10.2 innings but Burton has an unbelievable 15.19 K/9 so far (18 strikeouts in 10.2 innings). That is Rob Dibble-esque. Now I don't expect him to keep striking batters out at that rate, but he is the type of pitcher the Reds need in the pen - a guy that can miss bats. Burton was a very, very good pickup by Wayne Krivsky.

princeton
04-21-2008, 01:12 PM
I think it was foolish for Wayne to assume that Burton would continue pitching as well as he did last year (likewise for Weathers).


agreed-- it's too bad that Wayne didn't go out and sign a closer last winter.

OnBaseMachine
04-21-2008, 01:13 PM
He hasn't been very impressive so far this season, but that's ok. It was reasonable to expect him to come back to earth this season.

.701 OPSA. 15.19 K/9. Yes he has. You need to stop letting your bias against Wayne Krivsky get in the way of facts.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 01:15 PM
It's only been 10.2 innings but Burton has an unbelievable 15.19 K/9 so far (18 strikeouts in 10.2 innings). That is Rob Dibble-esque. Now I don't expect him to keep striking batters out at that rate, but he is the type of pitcher the Reds need in the pen - a guy that can miss bats. Burton was a very, very good pickup by Wayne Krivsky.

I agree Burton was a good pickup. I'm not sure he's the reliable set up man this team needs. Maybe he's the best option available on the roster, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the best role he's suited for.

Again, not saying he sucks. I just think he's a bit overrated.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 01:18 PM
.701 OPSA. 15.19 K/9. Yes he has. You need to stop letting your bias against Wayne Krivsky get in the way of facts.

It has nothing to do with Wayne. He didn't have a good appearance yesterday. If you disagree, fine.

Hopefully I am wrong and he has a dominant season. I'm certainly not rooting for him to fail.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 01:20 PM
agreed-- it's too bad that Wayne didn't go out and sign a closer last winter.

The bullpen is better this year, but it was hard not to improve it.

All Wayne really had to do was release Stanton and push Maj to AAA.
Not too difficult to find two upgrades there.

But Wayne did not improve it enough. It's still a relative weakness on this team.

It takes more than Cordero to fix this pen. Although I am pleased that Dusty is willing to use Cordero in tie games. I think he did that twice in the Milwaukee series.

princeton
04-21-2008, 01:23 PM
It takes more than Cordero to fix this pen.

just admit it-- your original statement about WayneK's foolishness was quite foolish ;)

nate
04-21-2008, 01:50 PM
It's only been 10.2 innings but Burton has an unbelievable 15.19 K/9 so far (18 strikeouts in 10.2 innings). That is Rob Dibble-esque. Now I don't expect him to keep striking batters out at that rate, but he is the type of pitcher the Reds need in the pen - a guy that can miss bats. Burton was a very, very good pickup by Wayne Krivsky.

Not only that but only 3 walks...one of which was on a very questionable call yesterday.

redsrule2500
04-21-2008, 01:55 PM
honestly the lack of gamethreads has made me seek discussion elsewhere... :(

westofyou
04-21-2008, 02:05 PM
18K's -3 BB - 10.2 innings.

If that's overrated, I hope the Reds go out and get more of that nothing.

redsmetz
04-21-2008, 02:22 PM
18K's -3 BB - 10.2 innings.

If that's overrated, I hope the Reds go out and get more of that nothing.

WOY, the man was not perfect, so he's dreck. He's getting older by the minute and will fail - we shouldn't rely on him. Just awful.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 03:29 PM
just admit it-- your original statement about WayneK's foolishness was quite foolish ;)


Which statement are you talking about?

That it's foolish to count on Burton and Weathers being the setup men?
I stand by that one.

Everyone fell in love with Coffey in his rookie year, but now very few people even want him on the team. I'm one of the few that has hope for Coffey this year.

Heath
04-21-2008, 03:39 PM
My guess is that they won; misery brings out posting, in most cases.

So, let me guess, a winning game thread will have less posters?

pahster
04-21-2008, 03:41 PM
I agree Burton was a good pickup. I'm not sure he's the reliable set up man this team needs. Maybe he's the best option available on the roster, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's the best role he's suited for.

Again, not saying he sucks. I just think he's a bit overrated.

Burton has been dominant so far this season. What more must he do, strikeout every batter he faces?

remdog
04-21-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm a big fan of Burton's but I think I understand where Redread is coming from. Jared seems to have a load of talent but, after all, he's a rule five pickup with half a good season under his belt.

Whether you like him or not let's admit that many of us are holding our beath to see if he can perform long-term.

Rem

Falls City Beer
04-21-2008, 04:17 PM
So, let me guess, a winning game thread will have less posters?

That's not what I'm saying, exactly. A lot of things impact the length of game threads. What I mean is that folks don't "dwell" in the forum threads on a win the way they do on a tough loss, a single player, a losing streak etc. People like to "continue" game threads when the team is underperforming, just so they can grouse some more.

REDREAD
04-21-2008, 06:58 PM
Burton has been dominant so far this season. What more must he do, strikeout every batter he faces?

No.. not that it matters. I am not going to convince anyone, but let me state my case.

Last season, he was Jeckyl and Hide, finishing strong

He's had 9 appearances so far this season.. Small sample.

In those 9 appearances, he's given up runs in 5 of them. In fact, he's given up runs in 4 of his last 5 appearances.

In 10.2 IP, he's given up 2 HR.. hopefully that will improve, but
it's not exactly a great start.

And yes, I consider Sunday's blown tie to be largely his fault, as he gave up two runs, even though EdE's error did not help him. He certainly wasn't dominant yesterday.

Again, not saying he sucks, just saying that he's not exactly "money in the bank" and he may not be the long term set up man. I hope he does well, because that would really help the team out.