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View Full Version : Tonight's lineup (4/22)



Reds Fanatic
04-22-2008, 05:01 PM
Hairston starts in center and per Dusty tradition leads off


Reds

Jerry Hairston Jr. cf
Jeff Keppinger ss
Ken Griffey Jr. rf
Brandon Phillips 2b
Adam Dunn lf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Paul Bako c
Edinson Volquez p

membengal
04-22-2008, 05:03 PM
Must be a lefty going for LA.

redsrule2500
04-22-2008, 05:03 PM
It said RHP though!?

edit: Appears dodgers switched to a LHP last minute. Wow.

*BaseClogger*
04-22-2008, 05:04 PM
Kuo? He's a lefty...

westofyou
04-22-2008, 05:04 PM
Must be a lefty going for LA.

Yes... Hong-Chih Kuo

RedsManRick
04-22-2008, 05:05 PM
I really wish I knew why Brandon Phillips hits cleanup. If he didn't do it last year, would it even have crossed Dusty's mind? What does EE have to do before he gets moved up?

BRM
04-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Why not stick to what hasn't worked?

Reds Fanatic
04-22-2008, 05:09 PM
I really wish I knew why Brandon Phillips hits cleanup. If he didn't do it last year, would it even have crossed Dusty's mind? What does EE have to do before he gets moved up?
I especially don't understand why you would keep him cleanup when he is struggling so much. Right now he is not hitting line drives around the field like last year. Most of the ABs lately he pops out to right field.

flyer85
04-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Must be a lefty going for LA.
Kuo is pitching, he has very questionable command. Hopefully Hairston and the rest will be patient and let him pitch himself into trouble.

WMR
04-22-2008, 05:12 PM
Why not stick to what hasn't worked?

:thumbup:

Reds Fanatic
04-22-2008, 05:14 PM
According to Trent's blog David Ross is at the park today. So he could be activated any time as soon as they make a roster move. I know they were going to do it tomorrow if he is already there I am not sure why they would not activate him today.

Matt700wlw
04-22-2008, 05:15 PM
He was there yesterday, too.

RedsManRick
04-22-2008, 05:16 PM
I especially don't understand why you would keep him cleanup when he is struggling so much. Right now he is not hitting line drives around the field like last year. Most of the ABs lately he pops out to right field.

I guess grounders to 2B are better than pop ups to RF.....

Edwin Encarnacion: .273/.385/.545
Brandon Phillips: .250/.305/.368

Which guy do you want cleaning up?

Versus lefties Phillips higher in the order does make some sense, I admit. But the rest of the time, not even close. Brandon Phillips is a very exciting player who I love to watch and am glad is on the Reds. But Edwin Encarnacion is more productive hitter. You're right, EE has hit ridiculously few line drives this year -- and he's still out-producing Phillips. What happens when he starts roping the ball?

oneupper
04-22-2008, 05:19 PM
Hairston is a lifetime .673 OPS vs lefties and .685 vs. Righties.

So it probably doesn't matter who pitches.

In any case, LA has Loaiza to finish up if Kuo falters.

PuffyPig
04-22-2008, 06:53 PM
It said RHP though!?

edit: Appears dodgers switched to a LHP last minute. Wow.

The LH has been scheduled all week, to my knowledge.

Reds Freak
04-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Phillips will be fine. I would assume Dusty or Jacoby or somebody has addressed his recent tendency to put his front shoulder in the opponent's dugout by the time the ball gets to the plate. If not, they're crazy because it's crystal clear even on TV. This is what he was doing last year when he was a HR away from 30. He's best when he's hitting those line drives into right center field and that's where he got a lot of his HRs last year at GABP...

jojo
04-22-2008, 08:42 PM
Phillips will be fine. I would assume Dusty or Jacoby or somebody has addressed his recent tendency to put his front shoulder in the opponent's dugout by the time the ball gets to the plate. If not, they're crazy because it's crystal clear even on TV. This is what he was doing last year when he was a HR away from 30. He's best when he's hitting those line drives into right center field and that's where he got a lot of his HRs last year at GABP...


IMHO, Phillips really isn't a great hitter.

Going into the season the Reds shouldve anticipated regression from their middle infield.

OnBaseMachine
04-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Jerry Hairston is not a centerfielder. He just proved that.

reds44
04-22-2008, 08:48 PM
Yeah, Patterson would have caught that.

Stormy
04-22-2008, 08:49 PM
Hairston has already shown some of his failings as a CF, taking terrible routes on balls lined into the LCF gap. The search for a legitimate leadoff hitter, who can also play a legitimate CF, will continue.

RedsManRick
04-22-2008, 09:05 PM
Phillips wasn't as productive as advertised. Don't get me wrong, he was very productive, especially for a 2B. He was 5th among NL 2B in OPS (behind Utley, Kent, Kelly Johnson, Orlando Hudson). But comparisons to Chase Utley, for example, were completely unfounded. The speed is nice but added a few runs worth of production, at most. He's a solid-average, solid-power, low OBP guy. He reminds me a bit of Aaron Boone with a little more contact.

He destroyed left handed pitching in 222 plate appearances (.341/.378/.606) on the strength of some huge power numbers. However, in his other 480 PA, against right handers, he was a very pedestrian .262/.310/.428 -- comparable to Alex Gonzalez. His 26 GIDP depressed his production as well, likely offsetting the contributions of his SB and more. His counting stats belied the fact that he was just pretty darn good, not great.

Phillips' increased production from 2006 to 2007 can be explained almost entirely by a jump in his HR/FB rate. Those extra flyballs which became HR would likely have been outs (as flyballs are want to do) in 2006. Add that to the fact that Phillips led the league in "just enough" HR last year (http://www.hittrackeronline.com/index.php) and you have a recipe for a career year in terms of power.

That he's a fixture hitting cleanup regardless of performance, particularly against righties, is an indictment of a manager who seems to design lineups based on convention and stereotype rather than maximizing production. I think being "the cleanup hitter", as opposed to just batting clean up situationally, has made Phillips think of himself as a power hitter, an "RBI guy" in Dusty parlance, and the effect of that shows in his approach.

Joseph
04-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Don't let this turn into a game thread. Discuss the line up, not the events of the game. We'll have the GT situation sorted out sooner or later.

jojo
04-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Phillips wasn't as productive as advertised. Don't get me wrong, he was very productive, especially for a 2B. He was 5th among NL 2B in OPS (behind Utley, Kent, Kelly Johnson, Orlando Hudson). But comparisons to Chase Utley, for example, were completely unfounded. The speed is nice but added a few runs worth of production, at most. He's a solid-average, solid-power, low OBP guy. He reminds me a bit of Aaron Boone with a little more contact.

He destroyed left handed pitching in 222 plate appearances (.341/.378/.606) on the strength of some huge power numbers. However, in his other 480 PA, against right handers, he was a very pedestrian .262/.310/.428 -- comparable to Alex Gonzalez. His 26 GIDP depressed his production as well, likely offsetting the contributions of his SB and more. His counting stats belied the fact that he was just pretty darn good, not great.

Phillips' increased production from 2006 to 2007 can be explained almost entirely by a jump in his HR/FB rate. Those extra flyballs which became HR would likely have been outs (as flyballs are want to do) in 2006. Add that to the fact that Phillips led the league in "just enough" HR last year (http://www.hittrackeronline.com/index.php) and you have a recipe for a career year in terms of power.

That he's a fixture hitting cleanup regardless of performance, particularly against righties, is an indictment of a manager who seems to design lineups based on convention and stereotype rather than maximizing production. I think being "the cleanup hitter", as opposed to just batting clean up situationally, has made Phillips think of himself as a power hitter, an "RBI guy" in Dusty parlance, and the effect of that shows in his approach.

While I agree pretty much with your assessment of Phillips as a hitter, I think the fact he's batting fourth probably has a lot to due with him being a righty in a lefty-laden lineup.

Joseph
04-22-2008, 09:13 PM
While I agree pretty much with your assessment of Phillips as a hitter, I think the fact he's batting fourth probably has a lot to due with him being a righty in a lefty-laden lineup.

I think it has everything to do with that. EE and Kepp aren't really currently middle of the line up hitters, so someone has to do it.

Spring~Fields
04-22-2008, 10:08 PM
That he's a fixture hitting cleanup regardless of performance, particularly against righties, is an indictment of a manager who seems to design lineups based on convention and stereotype rather than maximizing production. I think being "the cleanup hitter", as opposed to just batting clean up situationally, has made Phillips think of himself as a power hitter, an "RBI guy" in Dusty parlance, and the effect of that shows in his approach.

Well said.

There was a point where I thought that he was improving, then he discovered the HR again, even though he is my favorite, I don't think the HR or batting fourth helps his growth potential.

I don't think they are doing Phillips any favors, of course he can adjust, hopefully.

Big Klu
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Adam Dunn - 241
7. Eric Davis - 203
8. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

SteelSD
04-23-2008, 12:02 AM
Hairston has already shown some of his failings as a CF, taking terrible routes on balls lined into the LCF gap. The search for a legitimate leadoff hitter, who can also play a legitimate CF, will continue.

The problem is that Baker keeps looking for a CF who can hit leadoff rather than a baseball player who can hit leadoff regardless of whether or not they play Center Field. The grand irony is that tonight Baker slotted a CF who can't actually play CF into the leadoff slot. Square peg...round hole...PUSH...uhhhhh....

It's great that Baker's blindfolded dart throw worked tonight, but it still is what it is.

Spring~Fields
04-23-2008, 12:57 AM
The problem is that Baker keeps looking for a CF who can hit leadoff rather than a baseball player who can hit leadoff regardless of whether or not they play Center Field.

:clap: :notworthy:notworthy:clap:

Spring~Fields
04-23-2008, 01:05 AM
What do you guys think of Votto who is quietly going about his business?


Joey Votto 19 54 10 18 4 0 4 34 12 1 10 0 0 .333 .345 .630 .975

*BaseClogger*
04-23-2008, 01:08 AM
What do you guys think of Votto who is quietly going about his business?

Surprised by the power and lack of walks. I thought it would be the other way around. I guess they even out to not being surpised that he has been successful... :cool:

reds44
04-23-2008, 01:09 AM
Edwin, Kepppinger, Votto, and Bako are all kidding the ball. You think with 4 guys hitting like they are right now, we'd be scoring more runs.

Spring~Fields
04-23-2008, 01:11 AM
Edwin, Kepppinger, Votto, and Bako are all kidding the ball. You think with 4 guys hitting like they are right now, we'd be scoring more runs.

I think that we will start seeing more run support.

Remember the days not to long ago when that lower part of the order was basically auto outs?

reds44
04-23-2008, 01:16 AM
I think that we will start seeing more run support.

Remember the days not to long ago when that lower part of the order was basically auto outs?
Now it's the top of the order.

:lol: ;)

gm
04-23-2008, 02:04 AM
What do you guys think of Votto who is quietly going about his business?


Joey Votto 19 54 10 18 4 0 4 34 12 1 10 0 0 .333 .345 .630 .975

I'd like to see Joey batting fifth...but then, I would've liked to have seen Dunn batting higher in the order for a few years now...

WVRedsFan
04-23-2008, 02:10 AM
Edwin, Kepppinger, Votto, and Bako are all kidding the ball. You think with 4 guys hitting like they are right now, we'd be scoring more runs.

the key hs been and always will be the leadoff spot. Tonight Jerry set the table, put pressrue on the pitch, and things happened. It didn't hurt that we had a pitcher or pitchers who weren't Ben Sheets or Brad Penny.

As soon as Dusty figures out that the better hitter needs to lead off, the sooner we will score runs. Give Adam some protection and go from there.

And volquez was fantastic. But leadoof is key and that doesn't mean the CF always bats first.

RedlegJake
04-23-2008, 02:11 AM
Edwin, Kepppinger, Votto, and Bako are all kidding the ball. You think with 4 guys hitting like they are right now, we'd be scoring more runs.

And if they'd just quit kidding the darn thing and give it a good smack...

:cool:

Had to. Sorry reds44

Spring~Fields
04-23-2008, 11:35 AM
are all kidding the ball.

You been hanging out with Farney again? :)