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Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:09 PM
I just caught wind of this.

Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky his been fired less that three years after taking over the position several sources have confirmed to the Enquirer's Paul Daugherty.

Krivsky is still in a three-year contract that runs through the 2008 season.

Krivsky was hired on Feb. 9, 2006, replacing Dan O達rien as the Reds general manager. He was the first general manager to be hired under the Reds ownership group led by Bob Castellini.
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Krivsky previously had served as an assistant general manager with the Minnesota Twins, and almost named Reds general manager in 2003, when O達rien got the nod instead.

The move comes 21 days into the 2008 season. The Reds are currently 9-12, and 5 ス games out of first place in the National League Central.

DTCromer
04-23-2008, 12:10 PM
Wow. I'm stunned. . .I think it's a bit unfair IMO.

I'm assuming Jocketty will step in.

Wow. . I'll say it again. . .I'm stunned.

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:11 PM
I'm not positive yet...notice the question mark.

DTCromer
04-23-2008, 12:12 PM
It's been confirmed in the ORG.

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:12 PM
If this is true could he (Krivsky) gotten tired of having eyes constantly looking over his shoulder (Jocketty)?

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:12 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080423/SPT04/304230046

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:13 PM
Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky his been fired less that three years after taking over the position several sources have confirmed to the Enquirer's Paul Daugherty.

Krivsky is still in a three-year contract that runs through the 2008 season.

Krivsky was hired on Feb. 9, 2006, replacing Dan O達rien as the Reds general manager. He was the first general manager to be hired under the Reds ownership group led by Bob Castellini.
ADVERTISEMENT

Krivsky previously had served as an assistant general manager with the Minnesota Twins, and almost named Reds general manager in 2003, when O達rien got the nod instead.

The move comes 21 days into the 2008 season. The Reds are currently 9-12, and 5 ス games out of first place in the National League Central.

smoke6
04-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Kriv has made some decent moves IMO. I don't know what to say exept, Welcome Mr. Jockety.

CySeymour
04-23-2008, 12:16 PM
I have to be honest, I am flat shocked. Not that I was that big of a fan, but I sure didn't think he needed to be fired this early on.

Mitri
04-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Krivsky made some good moves, a few great ones even, but never seemed to understand managing a roster as a whole. He seemed to stumble with little things that most GM's can do in their sleep. Most of his big risks proved to be worth the risk.
Bring on Jocketty. I'm happy this is happening now, as this season is still very young and a few moves here or there could push this squad into a winning one. Walt is the man for the job in Cincinnati right now.

HeatherC1212
04-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Wow, I did not see that one coming at all. I guess he's taking the blame for everything whether that thing is his fault or not. :eek:

smoke6
04-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Anybody have a complete list of deals WK made? I'd like to see it. They couldn't fire Dusty this soon, so WK was next in line.

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm not really that surprised. This team is >.< close to being a contender...someone needs to get us over the hump. Wayne didn't/couldn't do it.

dsmith421
04-23-2008, 12:22 PM
The more I think about it, the more I strongly doubt that the Reds' slow start (and 9-12 is not really that disastrous) had much to do with it.

It sounds to me like there were big philosophical and personality differences between Krivsky and the new Castellini regime.

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:23 PM
Man I feel for Krivsky. He did a really nice job rebuilding. He left us as a franchise in much better shape than he was handed it.

CySeymour
04-23-2008, 12:24 PM
I think BCast is looking too closely at the big league team. I really don't see anything in Jocketty's resume that lets me believe he is a strong player development guy, and I think WK was a better fit in that regard. Be careful what you wish for, BCast.

Mitri
04-23-2008, 12:25 PM
Yeah, I think the slow start was just a good excuse to push this regime change into action sooner rather than later. I'm fine with it.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 12:29 PM
I have to be honest, I am flat shocked. Not that I was that big of a fan, but I sure didn't think he needed to be fired this early on.

I'm with you on that one. I'm stunned, gobsmacked and all around surprised.

IowaRed
04-23-2008, 12:29 PM
I wonder if there is any chance that Jocketty would fire the current manager :pray:

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:31 PM
Anybody have a complete list of deals WK made? I'd like to see it. They couldn't fire Dusty this soon, so WK was next in line.

Cast would have to admit he screwed up. Cast be doing everyone a favor if he canned Dusty and got anyone who understood how to build an everyday lineup and maximizing the assets you got.

CySeymour
04-23-2008, 12:32 PM
I wonder if there is any chance that Jocketty would fire the current manager :pray:

What has Dusty done that has been so bad? Baker is not the reason this team has been so bad so far. The roster has really hamstrung him, IMO.

mlbfan30
04-23-2008, 12:33 PM
I wonder how different the minor leagues and drafting philosophy will change.

The Reds roster of core players is basically set.
BP/EE/Votto/Kepp/Bruce/Cordero/Harang/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey

These guys won't be going anywhere hopefully. A new GM's biggest impact this year is just finding those role players that will help. Then the minor league development and drafting.

Even though Krivsky didn't draft some of the top talent, he still has done a very solid job. The biggest thing might be player development in the minor leagues.

Walt has historically had a pretty bad minor league system, and the few decent players he's traded away.

I'm guessing there was some type of huge conflict. My guess.... The Front Office wanted Bailey up, and Krivsky wouldn't allow it. We'll see how soon Bailey gets called up now.

hebroncougar
04-23-2008, 12:33 PM
Big Bob must be tired of eating contracts that are horrific that Krivsky handed out. Can't say as I blame him.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 12:34 PM
I wonder if there is any chance that Jocketty would fire the current manager :pray:

Fire Baker for whom? Who would you put in there?

CySeymour
04-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Big Bob must be tired of eating contracts that are horrific that Krivsky handed out. Can't say as I blame him.

I think you are right, and it gets back to roster management, which really has been WK's shortcoming. You look at the contracts of Stanton, Castro and Hatteberg, and they really have dug the team into a big hole. If Cast wants to hold anything against Krivsky, I think it's that.

IowaRed
04-23-2008, 12:35 PM
What has Dusty done that has been so bad? Baker is not the reason this team has been so bad so far. The roster has really hamstrung him, IMO.

see Slyder's post above, it is exactly about maximizing assets which isn't Baker's strong point. He routinely puts the wrong players in the wrong positions in a variety of ways, I'm talking about the ones on the current roster

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:36 PM
You know dang well that Baker isn't going anywhere.

dsmith421
04-23-2008, 12:37 PM
A new GM's biggest impact this year is just finding those role players that will help.

If true, this bodes well. Jocketty was awesome in St. Louis at finding the spare parts to fit in around Pujols, Rolen, and Edmonds during their long run of division crowns.

CySeymour
04-23-2008, 12:37 PM
see Slyder's post above, it is exactly about maximizing assets which isn't Baker's strong point. He routinely puts the wrong players in the wrong positions in a variety of ways, I'm talking about the ones on the current roster

And I will get back to my previous point, and that is he hasn't really had a roster to where he can do that. Give him a better layed out group of players, then see what he does with what he has.

ChatterRed
04-23-2008, 12:38 PM
I am shocked.

Krivsky has made as many good moves as bad ones in my opinion.

Degenerate39
04-23-2008, 12:39 PM
I was blind sided by this one. I didn't think he would be fired for a while now. I really liked Wayne but let's hope Jocketty can do a better job at fielding a winner.

mroby85
04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
I really just wish everyone would shutup about Dusty. Get off your soapbox and give the guy a chance. I realize you were all spoiled with proven winners like Bob Boone, Jerry Narron, and Pete Mackanin, but back off!

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
And I will get back to my previous point, and that is he hasn't really had a roster to where he can do that. Give him a better layed out group of players, then see what he does with what he has.

Corey Patterson with a sub 275 obp leading off.. almost everyday.

Batting Dunn 5th with little protection if any to make teams pitch to him.

Patterson playing almost everyday, while Freel has seen a handful of starts and is 6-15 in his last 3 starts.

Thats far from maximizing assets.

Dusty has always had superior talent to make up for such gaffs. He's almost like Art Shell and had teams won inspite of him.

steig
04-23-2008, 12:45 PM
I think Krivsky should have been allowed to work the rest of the year and prove his worth, but i think management got tired of eating contracts. he may have wanted to release a couple more players and BCast got tired of signing checks. Krivsky did do a decent job with the minors, i'm worried Jocketty may trade Bruce and kill the future of this team.

ChatterRed
04-23-2008, 12:46 PM
So I guess the Matt Holiday trade is off then? :D

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:47 PM
Jocketty knows what to do when rebuilding. He inherited a dreadful St Louis organization that stunk and took like 5-6 seasons to get competitive. I'm not overly worried that Jocketty will push things faster than needs to be done.

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 12:50 PM
Jocketty knows what to do when rebuilding. He inherited a dreadful St Louis organization that stunk and took like 5-6 seasons to get competitive. I'm not overly worried that Jocketty will push things faster than needs to be done.


I don't think I (or any fan) wants to wait 5-6 years. I'm hoping to see Joey Votto in the lineup every day...and Bruce in the majors manning CF by mid-May!

Slyder
04-23-2008, 12:50 PM
I don't think I (or any fan) wants to wait 5-6 years. I'm hoping to see Joey Votto in the lineup every day...and Bruce in the majors manning CF by mid-May!

What I meant was I'm sure he realizes we arent quite there yet and isnt going to mortgage the farm for one flash in the pan.

IowaRed
04-23-2008, 12:54 PM
Fire Baker for whom? Who would you put in there?

well, Pete MacKanin but he wasn't a big enough name for ownership so how about any non-OBP challenged manager with a little experience and who doesn't have a history of whining to the press and making excuses for things that go wrong

mlbfan30
04-23-2008, 12:58 PM
I think Krivsky should have been allowed to work the rest of the year and prove his worth, but i think management got tired of eating contracts. he may have wanted to release a couple more players and BCast got tired of signing checks. Krivsky did do a decent job with the minors, i'm worried Jocketty may trade Bruce and kill the future of this team.

I'm not sure if he'll trade Bruce, but this team just got a lot worse for the next 5 or so years in terms of producing minor league prospects. Krivsky was able to gather a strong core of young pitching, and a strong core young hitting.

Cueto/Volquez/Bailey - he might not have signed all these players, but the system developed them.
Arroyo - the trade
Harang - signed LTC
Thompson - turning out to be the best Reds prospect when Bruce/Bailey go up.
Bruce/Votto - developed by the Reds
BP/Kepp - brought in for nothing

He's gathered a very solid foundation for winning.... the only problem were trading for, or signing players that shouldn't have been acquired. Players like Castro/Conine/Cormier/Stanton/Sarlos/the whole Rule V thing/etc.
The biggest FA signings he had were Agone, which was somewhat reasonable at the time. And Cordero, which I still think was a good move.

Walt might be better at getting better surrounding players, but he can't match Krivsky in development and acquisition of star players.

Walt has a history of traded too much talent for mediocre players, and Even though I doubt Bruce will be traded, EE/Bailey are players that might not be Reds in 3 months.

dunner13
04-23-2008, 01:17 PM
i think dunn might have been a big part of krivsky getting fired. It seemed like castenilli wanted to keep dunn here long term and krivsky didnt. im betting within 3 weeks dunn is signed to a long term contract.

IowaRed
04-23-2008, 01:20 PM
I really just wish everyone would shutup about Dusty. Get off your soapbox and give the guy a chance. I realize you were all spoiled with proven winners like Bob Boone, Jerry Narron, and Pete Mackanin, but back off!

once again, pot meets kettle

eastkyred
04-23-2008, 01:23 PM
I expect his first big move will be to put Jay Bruce in CF. I can't understand him not being here now. I think Krivski has done a decent job, and I'm a little suprised by this move so early. I suspect that Cast just has a lot more faith in Jockety and I seriously doubt that Krivski and Jockety were meshing real well in their current roles. Hopefully Jockety will fix the current configuration of our 25 man. We have 4 center fielders with similar strengths and weaknesses, no righthanded power on the bench, possibly 3 catchers today with Ross coming back, our best cf is in Louisville, our best bullpen lefty is in Louisville, and our #5 starter (should be) is in Louisville.

HeatherC1212
04-23-2008, 01:25 PM
Has this been confirmed by anyone besides Daugherty yet? Not that I don't believe it but it seems like awfully big news to not have any information on any other Cincy news outlet yet.

And as I type that paragraph out, an article goes up on wcpo.com.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=85349ccf-91a9-42db-8e52-aa84dbabcd49

AmarilloRed
04-23-2008, 01:26 PM
He made some bad moves in signing bench players and relievers to multiple-year deals(Stanton, Castro, Freel); otherwise he was a good GM. He hasn't really made a bad trade since the Kearns trade, and he got some good players out of that. I am as shocked as everyone else, and I hope Jocketty does as good a job as Wayne Krivsky has.

tommycash
04-23-2008, 01:27 PM
Hold on to your seats as this season will be a roller coaster ride for sure. I thought they would give Wayne at least until the All-Star Break to keep or lose his job. I guess too many contracts were eaten to keep Krivsky in his spot.

AmarilloRed
04-23-2008, 01:28 PM
Has this been confirmed by anyone besides Daugherty yet? Not that I don't believe it but it seems like awfully big news to not have any information on any other Cincy news outlet yet.

And as I type that paragraph out, an article goes up on wcpo.com.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=85349ccf-91a9-42db-8e52-aa84dbabcd49

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080423&content_id=2573847&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin


It's on the Reds website, it is official.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 01:30 PM
well, Pete MacKanin but he wasn't a big enough name for ownership so how about any non-OBP challenged manager with a little experience and who doesn't have a history of whining to the press and making excuses for things that go wrong
Seriously. You want this team to win and your first suggestion is MacKannin? And your second choice is some unnamed candidate?

And the OBP problem isn't Baker's problem. It's the players. Dusty can only do so much before and during the game but he can't hit, pitch or field. If anything, why not blame Jacoby for the OBP? That's supposed to be his expertise.

I just can't believe there are people willing to scream about Baker being the problem. People need to stop listening to ESPN and sports blogs because DB isn't the problem with this organization.

Scott Botkins
04-23-2008, 01:33 PM
I wasn't expecting to see Wayne fired this early in the season, I thought he had done an okay job with the cards he was dealt. I was worried about the Hamilton trade but this Volquez guy is a stud. But this was bound to happen because Bob didn't hire BFF Jocketty for nothing, at least this owner doesn't accept anything below a .500 winning percentage like the previous owners.

eastkyred
04-23-2008, 01:34 PM
There is no chance that Dusty Baker is going anywhere anytime soon. No chance.

RSNtransplant
04-23-2008, 01:39 PM
Why put off the inevitable. The day Castellini hired Jocketty(previous ties in St Louis), Krivsky should have been working on his resume. Best of luck to him, I'd say he did the Reds right and himself with what he accomplished here. I'm sure when hiring Dusty, everyone knew Baker would have to work with Jocketty in some capacity, so this changes nothing for Baker.

IowaRed
04-23-2008, 01:48 PM
Seriously. You want this team to win and your first suggestion is MacKannin? And your second choice is some unnamed candidate?

And the OBP problem isn't Baker's problem. It's the players. Dusty can only do so much before and during the game but he can't hit, pitch or field. If anything, why not blame Jacoby for the OBP? That's supposed to be his expertise.

I just can't believe there are people willing to scream about Baker being the problem. People need to stop listening to ESPN and sports blogs because DB isn't the problem with this organization.

MacKannin was just the first person off the top of my head but yes I would choose him 1000 times before Baker. I don't have a list of available candidates but I would take almost anybody that fit my description above. Dusty Baker is not the main problem with this team, never claimed he was. However, he is A problem. Putting Corey Patterson as the leadoff hitter should tell you a lot. By the way, I wasn't talking about the player's ability to get on base, I was talking about what a manager can control which is putting guys who can't get on base either in the lineup or in the worst possible places in the lineup.

BLEEDS
04-23-2008, 01:48 PM
Big Bob must be tired of eating contracts that are horrific that Krivsky handed out. Can't say as I blame him.


He made some bad moves in signing bench players and relievers to multiple-year deals(Stanton, Castro, Freel); otherwise he was a good GM.

I think that is your answer(s).

TOO Many DFA's for the owner's liking. Castro was the final straw. HOW in the world ANYONE can logically defend the signing of this guy to a MULTI-YEAR DEAL is beyond me, LET ALONE if the guy actually PLAYED FOR YOUR PREVIOUS ORGANIZATION (the Twinkies). SHEESH!!

Stanton was a HUGE reach and a HUGE overpay. Freel and Coffey are examples of WAY overpaying for guys who have shown NOTHING in their careers to date, and rewarding 1 year of anamolatic (yes, my new invented word) play with a multi-year, multi-MILLION dollar deal.

You can throw ROSS into that mix too. This guy is making $2.5M this year in the 2nd year of a $4.5M deal with a $3.5m option next year. REALLY?!?! For a 30 year old catcher who played over 70 games in a season ONCE and hit .255. WELL, he DID hit 21 homers in 90 games (over half in GABP).

It's okay to pick off the scrap heap in search of a reclimation project. It's NOT okay to pay the guy multi-millions after ONE Glimmer of promise, that's more likely to turn into a BLIP than a trend...

MAYBE, just MAYBE let a guy give you a couple years of consistency before you back up the Brinks, mmmKay??!?!

I SURE hope Walt and BCast give the go-ahead on a Dunn contract. Time to SEPARATE ourselves from the Minnesota thought processes and quit crying Small Market woes. NO REASON IN THE WORLD we can't compete with St. Louis in regards to payroll and players and personna. WE CAN PUT BUTTS IN THE SEATS LIKE NOBODIES BUSINESS - IFF we can show we can $PEND and WIN. But you need the EGG before the Chicken in this instance.

Let's hope this is the start of something SPECIAL.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

TStuck
04-23-2008, 02:02 PM
I've never been a Krivsky hater, but I think this was a classic case of you reap what you sow. This was a combination of bad deals and bad blood.

Besides the multiyear, multimillion dollar contracts for Freel, Stanton, Castro, Coffey, and Ross, you don't pay Corey Patterson 3 million dollars. Here's a guy who's serviceable, but teams weren't exactly lining up to get him in camp - no way you throw 3 million at him. He went into the offseason with a glaring need for RH hitting and did.......zip.

For the bad blood part of it, he ran off Johnny Almarez, who was anything but dead wood in this organization and, from most reports, was EXTREMELY territorial and "my way or the highway" in his approach.

Kriv did some good things (some REALLY good), but unfortunately really watered those down by the bad things he did.

Natty Redlocks
04-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Why put off the inevitable. The day Castellini hired Jocketty(previous ties in St Louis), Krivsky should have been working on his resume. Best of luck to him, I'd say he did the Reds right and himself with what he accomplished here. I'm sure when hiring Dusty, everyone knew Baker would have to work with Jocketty in some capacity, so this changes nothing for Baker.

I agree with this. In fact, if you think about it, it's pretty obvious Castellini wanted Jocketty from the start, "settled" for Krivsky, and when Jocketty became available he scooped him up. Krivsky has been a lame duck and the poor start gave Castellini the excuse he's been waiting for. Duh. I can't believe we're all so surprised -- I bet Wayne knew the second Jocketty was fired in St. Louis that his days were numbered.

AdamDunn
04-23-2008, 02:11 PM
I hate the Reds... stupid move. We're moving in the right direction and now we get the guy who traded away Haren for Mulder and other stupid moves. I'd expand, but I don't have time... this is a bad idea

DeadRedinCT
04-23-2008, 02:13 PM
A case can be made that Krivsky should be fired (as many have already eloquently written on this board). A case can also be made that Krivsky should not have been fired (as others have also eloquently written). What concerns me, as a Reds fan, is the timing and the "knee-jerk" feel to the move that gives me doubts about Castellini as an owner. Living in the middle of the Yankees - Red Sox battleground, I see one franchise has had more recent success than the other. One franchise has an owner that spouts off to the press on a moments notice, the other has an owner who stays out of the limelight and established a clear-cut chain of command. Let's hope that Castellini is establishing such a chain of command with Jocketty. I'm getting tired of regime change - this 5 GMs in the span of 6 seasons. No wonder the Reds haven't won with any regularity.

Dunn44
04-23-2008, 02:17 PM
Should we take this as saying Castellini will do whatever it takes to win? I really dont care how our problems are solved as long as they are solved. JMHO

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Dusty Baker is not the main problem with this team, never claimed he was. However, he is A problem. Putting Corey Patterson as the leadoff hitter should tell you a lot. By the way, I wasn't talking about the player's ability to get on base, I was talking about what a manager can control which is putting guys who can't get on base either in the lineup or in the worst possible places in the lineup.
Sure, but looking at CP's stats, he's .297 OBP and OPS .713. The potential was there to be a leadoff hitter and, with his speed, the potential for stolen bases. Did DB stick with him too long? Probably. You can guess how a player will perform based on statistics but sometimes, the numbers don't tell the wholes story.

mroby85
04-23-2008, 02:20 PM
will the press conference be televised on fsn or espn news?

tommycash
04-23-2008, 02:20 PM
A case can be made that Krivsky should be fired (as many have already eloquently written on this board). A case can also be made that Krivsky should not have been fired (as others have also eloquently written). What concerns me, as a Reds fan, is the timing and the "knee-jerk" feel to the move that gives me doubts about Castellini as an owner. Living in the middle of the Yankees - Red Sox battleground, I see one franchise has had more recent success than the other. One franchise has an owner that spouts off to the press on a moments notice, the other has an owner who stays out of the limelight and established a clear-cut chain of command. Let's hope that Castellini is establishing such a chain of command with Jocketty. I'm getting tired of regime change - this 5 GMs in the span of 6 seasons. No wonder the Reds haven't won with any regularity.

I agree for the most part. But lets not forget that after winning their first title in however many years, Theo Epstein was not given an extension and waited a long time before he came back. I think we mostly agree that we all would love to spend the type of Red Sox or Yankee money. And we all would agree that we knew that when Jocketty was hired, he would eventually replace Wayne. I just think that we were all mostly shocked by the timing of it all.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 02:22 PM
I agree with this. In fact, if you think about it, it's pretty obvious Castellini wanted Jocketty from the start, "settled" for Krivsky, and when Jocketty became available he scooped him up. Krivsky has been a lame duck and the poor start gave Castellini the excuse he's been waiting for. Duh. I can't believe we're all so surprised -- I bet Wayne knew the second Jocketty was fired in St. Louis that his days were numbered.
But do you ever stop to consider that the reason WK became a lame duck was because of the Reds' record, not to mention contracts?

Everyone but the dumbest fans knew that Jocketty would get the GM position with the Reds. Cast hired WK, for pete's sake.

WK's record, contracts and, lastly, people skills were his downfalls.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 02:29 PM
I'm getting tired of regime change - this 5 GMs in the span of 6 seasons.
Where did you that number? Bowden, O'Brien, Krivsky, now Jocketty.

BLEEDS
04-23-2008, 02:30 PM
Corey Patterson with a sub 275 obp leading off.. almost everyday.

Batting Dunn 5th with little protection if any to make teams pitch to him.

Patterson playing almost everyday, while Freel has seen a handful of starts and is 6-15 in his last 3 starts.

Thats far from maximizing assets.



How about needing RH-ed pop on the team/bench, to counter our RIDONKULOUS trouble versus Loogy Pitching, and ending up with:

Corey Patterson - Lefty CF-er
Hatteberg - Lefty 1B-man (which we already had)
Bako - Lefty Catcher
Valentin - Lefty Catcher (hitting right he SUCKS versus lefties)

Hopper - CRAP SLAPPY Rh-er
Freel - CRAP SLAPPY Rh-er #2
Juan F. Castro - worthless in any and all capacities

I guess "Needing Right Handed Hitters translated to: What this team needs is more lefty catchers and 1B-men" apparently.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Natty Redlocks
04-23-2008, 02:35 PM
But do you ever stop to consider that the reason WK became a lame duck was because of the Reds' record, not to mention contracts?

Everyone but the dumbest fans knew that Jocketty would get the GM position with the Reds. Cast hired WK, for pete's sake.

WK's record, contracts and, lastly, people skills were his downfalls.

I'm just saying in retrospect it should have been more obvious what a woody Castellini had for Jocketty, and anything resembling a bad start would spell the end for Krivsky, even if he did do a whole lot of things right, which he did.

Cardinal_Fan
04-23-2008, 02:37 PM
Jocketty could be good for you guys. Obviously, given the current state of our minors I would fear him decimating your prospects. But he did get us Scott Rolen (who was extremely worthwhile for a period of time) and Jim Edmonds who was also good for a long period of time. Now, Mark Mulder...that trade we seriously got the shaft on. Also, the Will Clark trade wasn't as solid either.

Nevertheless, he might be able to push you guys over the edge if the right players are available. However, he does tend to still like washed up players. But then again, maybe he learned from Mark Mulder.

OldRed1966
04-23-2008, 02:45 PM
I knew it was going to happen. It was just two months later than I expected. For those of you who are calling for Dusty's head. Don't you realize that Dusty was Bob C's man, and that WK wanted to keep Pety Mac ?

_Sir_Charles_
04-23-2008, 02:46 PM
This was a bad move IMO. I agree with several people here that Krivsky didn't know how to manage a roster very well, but he was supurb at acquiring talent. If the roster was his weak point, then give that assignment over to Jocketty and keep Krivsky on to do what he does best.

But either way, the timing of this move is what shocked me. Is Castellini really deluded enough to think this team is a CONTENDER...THIS year? This team is built to win for a sustained period of time starting NEXT year. The rooks need SOME time to get major league experience before you plant the burden of winning completely on their shoulders.

mroby85
04-23-2008, 02:51 PM
This was a bad move IMO. I agree with several people here that Krivsky didn't know how to manage a roster very well, but he was supurb at acquiring talent. If the roster was his weak point, then give that assignment over to Jocketty and keep Krivsky on to do what he does best.

But either way, the timing of this move is what shocked me. Is Castellini really deluded enough to think this team is a CONTENDER...THIS year? This team is built to win for a sustained period of time starting NEXT year. The rooks need SOME time to get major league experience before you plant the burden of winning completely on their shoulders.

if he's deluded, than count me in, because i think they can contend this year as well!

BLEEDS
04-23-2008, 02:54 PM
from ORG (RedsManRick)
Courtesty of www.mlbtraderumors.com
Notable moves during Krivsky's tenure:

* 2-12-06: Scott Hatteberg signed to a one-year, $750K deal.
* 2-13-06: Adam Dunn signed to two-year, $18.5MM extension.
* 3-20-06: Acquired Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena.
* 3-21-06: Acquired David Ross for Bobby Basham.
* 4-7-06: Acquired Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens.
* 5-26-06: Traded Cody Ross to Marlins for a player to be named later.
* June '06: Selected Drew Stubbs eighth overall in draft.
* 7-6-06: Acquired Eddie Guardado for Travis Chick.
* 7-13-06: Acquired Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, Brendan Harris, and Daryl Thompson for Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.
* 7-26-06: Signed Hatteberg to a one-year, $1.65MM extension.
* 7-31-06: Acquired Rheal Cormier for Justin Germano.
* 7-31-06: Acquired Kyle Lohse for Zach Ward.
* 8-7-06: Acquired Ryan Franklin for a player to be named later.
* 8-16-06: Acquired Scott Schoeneweis for a player to be named later.
* 8-28-06: Signed Javier Valentin to a one-year, $1.325MM extension.
* 9-25-06: Signed Juan Castro to a two-year, $2MM extension.
* 11-20-06: Signed Alex Gonzalez to a three-year, $14MM contract.
* 11-20-06: Signed Mike Stanton to a two-year, $5.5MM contract.
* 11-20-06: Traded Jason LaRue to the Royals for a player to be named later.
* 12-7-06: Acquired Josh Hamilton for cash.
* 12-7-06: Selected Jared Burton in Rule 5 draft.
* 12-12-06: Signed David Weathers to a two-year, $5MM contract.
* 1-2-07: Traded Brendan Harris to Rays for cash.
* 1-10-07: Acquired Jeff Keppinger for Russ Haltiwanger.
* 2-6-07: Signed Aaron Harang to a four-year, $36.5MM extension.
* 2-8-07: Signed Bronson Arroyo to a two-year, $25MM extension.
* 4-16-07: Signed Ryan Freel to a two-year, $7MM extension.
* 4-27-07: Traded Chris Denorfia to A's for Marcus McBeth and another player.
* 5-9-07: Released Rheal Cormier.
* June '07: Selected Devin Mesoraco 15th overall in draft.
* 10-31-07: Exercised '08 options on Hatteberg, Dunn, and Valentin.
* 11-28-07: Signed Francisco Cordero to a four-year, $46MM contract.
* 12-21-07: Acquired Edinson Volquez and Danny Herrera for Josh Hamilton.
* 1-23-08: Signed Jeremy Affeldt to a one-year, $3MM contract.
* 2-15-08: Signed Brandon Phillips to a four-year, $27MM extension.
* 2-21-08: Signed Josh Fogg to a one-year, $1MM contract.
* 3-3-08: Signed Corey Patterson to a one-year, $3MM contract.
* 4-8-08: Released Mike Stanton

757690
04-23-2008, 02:55 PM
I think this was more of a personal move than an organizational move, meaning that I think nobody liked working with Krivsky. He has a terrible relationship with the media, and most of his scouting staff quit because they couldn't work with him.

Read McCoy's blog, Krivsky his own Worst Enemy, here

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

This was written by a friend, very telling.

Reports from all reporters are that Krivsky and Jocketty were not getting along either.

Basically, while I think Krivsky did a great job of finding talent, he was poor in other, equally important functions, like media relations, contracts, and building a balanced roster. Those are all skills that Jocketty excels at, which combined equate to having a solid overall plan for the future and sticking to it, something that Krivsky never had.

Jocketty has been a great judge of talent over the years, (Mulder for Haren, the one glaring exception). Look at his transactions. They are full of trading marginal prospects for solid major leaguers who had fallen out of favor, then signing them to cheap long term contracts once the excel. A very solid business plan.
Yes, the Cardinal farm system is dry, but that is after 14 seasons of championship baseball nearly every year. Seven playoff appearances, two World Series appearances, and one ring. I will gladly take that, even if it means an empty farm system after 14 years.

I see a complete re-working of the roster. I think he will sit down with Dusty and they will get the guys they want on the team and get rid of some others. This could have been the tipping point. Dusty, Walt and Cast all wanting to shake up the roster, and Krivsky refusing. At least things will get interesting.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm just saying in retrospect it should have been more obvious what a woody Castellini had for Jocketty, and anything resembling a bad start would spell the end for Krivsky, even if he did do a whole lot of things right, which he did.
He did some good things, yes. I agree. But he can't be credited with saving the farm system. That was O'Brien (El Capitano Rebuildo), Alvarez and a few others. WK, to his benefit, didn't mortgage the future (except Denorfia) to improve it. And the other negs on WK have already been stated.

But, honestly, if Krivsky knew that Jocketty would be his replacement, he should've made himself irreplaceable.

_Sir_Charles_
04-23-2008, 02:58 PM
Quote from MRoby85: "if he's deluded, than count me in, because i think they can contend this year as well!"


No, Cueto and Volquez will both have their struggles. You know that at some time we'll be bringing up Bruce and Bailey and they'll both have their struggles as well. This year was designed to be the 'learning curve' year for the kids. Affeldt & Fogg were brought in as stop-gaps for Cueto, Volquez, Bailey & Belisle. Griffey & Dunn (one if not both) come off the books next year to open up spots for Bruce and it frees up money for a FA outfielder (if we dump both).

Don't get me wrong, we'll be improved this year I think. But not enough to top the Brewers/Cubs...not yet.

smoke6
04-23-2008, 03:03 PM
from ORG (RedsManRick)
Courtesty of www.mlbtraderumors.com
Notable moves during Krivsky's tenure:

* 2-12-06: Scott Hatteberg signed to a one-year, $750K deal.
* 2-13-06: Adam Dunn signed to two-year, $18.5MM extension.
* 3-20-06: Acquired Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena.
* 3-21-06: Acquired David Ross for Bobby Basham.
* 4-7-06: Acquired Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens.
* 5-26-06: Traded Cody Ross to Marlins for a player to be named later.
* June '06: Selected Drew Stubbs eighth overall in draft.
* 7-6-06: Acquired Eddie Guardado for Travis Chick.
* 7-13-06: Acquired Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, Brendan Harris, and Daryl Thompson for Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.
* 7-26-06: Signed Hatteberg to a one-year, $1.65MM extension.
* 7-31-06: Acquired Rheal Cormier for Justin Germano.
* 7-31-06: Acquired Kyle Lohse for Zach Ward.
* 8-7-06: Acquired Ryan Franklin for a player to be named later.
* 8-16-06: Acquired Scott Schoeneweis for a player to be named later.
* 8-28-06: Signed Javier Valentin to a one-year, $1.325MM extension.
* 9-25-06: Signed Juan Castro to a two-year, $2MM extension.
* 11-20-06: Signed Alex Gonzalez to a three-year, $14MM contract.
* 11-20-06: Signed Mike Stanton to a two-year, $5.5MM contract.
* 11-20-06: Traded Jason LaRue to the Royals for a player to be named later.
* 12-7-06: Acquired Josh Hamilton for cash.
* 12-7-06: Selected Jared Burton in Rule 5 draft.
* 12-12-06: Signed David Weathers to a two-year, $5MM contract.
* 1-2-07: Traded Brendan Harris to Rays for cash.
* 1-10-07: Acquired Jeff Keppinger for Russ Haltiwanger.
* 2-6-07: Signed Aaron Harang to a four-year, $36.5MM extension.
* 2-8-07: Signed Bronson Arroyo to a two-year, $25MM extension.
* 4-16-07: Signed Ryan Freel to a two-year, $7MM extension.
* 4-27-07: Traded Chris Denorfia to A's for Marcus McBeth and another player.
* 5-9-07: Released Rheal Cormier.
* June '07: Selected Devin Mesoraco 15th overall in draft.
* 10-31-07: Exercised '08 options on Hatteberg, Dunn, and Valentin.
* 11-28-07: Signed Francisco Cordero to a four-year, $46MM contract.
* 12-21-07: Acquired Edinson Volquez and Danny Herrera for Josh Hamilton.
* 1-23-08: Signed Jeremy Affeldt to a one-year, $3MM contract.
* 2-15-08: Signed Brandon Phillips to a four-year, $27MM extension.
* 2-21-08: Signed Josh Fogg to a one-year, $1MM contract.
* 3-3-08: Signed Corey Patterson to a one-year, $3MM contract.
* 4-8-08: Released Mike Stanton

These are the deals I have issues with.

mroby85
04-23-2008, 03:06 PM
Quote from MRoby85: "if he's deluded, than count me in, because i think they can contend this year as well!"


No, Cueto and Volquez will both have their struggles. You know that at some time we'll be bringing up Bruce and Bailey and they'll both have their struggles as well. This year was designed to be the 'learning curve' year for the kids. Affeldt & Fogg were brought in as stop-gaps for Cueto, Volquez, Bailey & Belisle. Griffey & Dunn (one if not both) come off the books next year to open up spots for Bruce and it frees up money for a FA outfielder (if we dump both).

Don't get me wrong, we'll be improved this year I think. But not enough to top the Brewers/Cubs...not yet.

You may be right, but the florida marlins have had some great seasons when they were a very young team. we'll just have to let things play out, but i definitely wouldn't give up on this team being a contender.

BLEEDS
04-23-2008, 03:13 PM
from ORG (RedsManRick)
Courtesty of www.mlbtraderumors.com
Notable moves during Krivsky's tenure:

+ * 2-12-06: Scott Hatteberg signed to a one-year, $750K deal.
+ * 2-13-06: Adam Dunn signed to two-year, $18.5MM extension.
+ * 3-20-06: Acquired Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena.
+ * 3-21-06: Acquired David Ross for Bobby Basham.
+ * 4-7-06: Acquired Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens.
- * 5-26-06: Traded Cody Ross to Marlins for a player to be named later.
- * June '06: Selected Drew Stubbs eighth overall in draft.
+ * 7-6-06: Acquired Eddie Guardado for Travis Chick.
+ * 7-13-06: Acquired Gary Majewski, Bill Bray, Royce Clayton, Brendan Harris, and Daryl Thompson for Austin Kearns, Felipe Lopez, and Ryan Wagner.
+ * 7-26-06: Signed Hatteberg to a one-year, $1.65MM extension.
- * 7-31-06: Acquired Rheal Cormier for Justin Germano.
+ * 7-31-06: Acquired Kyle Lohse for Zach Ward.
o * 8-7-06: Acquired Ryan Franklin for a player to be named later.
- * 8-16-06: Acquired Scott Schoeneweis for a player to be named later.
+ * 8-28-06: Signed Javier Valentin to a one-year, $1.325MM extension.
- * 9-25-06: Signed Juan Castro to a two-year, $2MM extension.
+ * 11-20-06: Signed Alex Gonzalez to a three-year, $14MM contract.
--- * 11-20-06: Signed Mike Stanton to a two-year, $5.5MM contract.
- * 11-20-06: Traded Jason LaRue to the Royals for a player to be named later.
+ * 12-7-06: Acquired Josh Hamilton for cash.
+ * 12-7-06: Selected Jared Burton in Rule 5 draft.
+ * 12-12-06: Signed David Weathers to a two-year, $5MM contract.
o * 1-2-07: Traded Brendan Harris to Rays for cash.
+ * 1-10-07: Acquired Jeff Keppinger for Russ Haltiwanger.
+ * 2-6-07: Signed Aaron Harang to a four-year, $36.5MM extension.
+ * 2-8-07: Signed Bronson Arroyo to a two-year, $25MM extension.
-- * 4-16-07: Signed Ryan Freel to a two-year, $7MM extension.
o * 4-27-07: Traded Chris Denorfia to A's for Marcus McBeth and another player.
- * 5-9-07: Released Rheal Cormier.
o * June '07: Selected Devin Mesoraco 15th overall in draft.
+ * 10-31-07: Exercised '08 options on Hatteberg, Dunn, and Valentin.
+ * 11-28-07: Signed Francisco Cordero to a four-year, $46MM contract.
+ * 12-21-07: Acquired Edinson Volquez and Danny Herrera for Josh Hamilton.
o * 1-23-08: Signed Jeremy Affeldt to a one-year, $3MM contract.
+ * 2-15-08: Signed Brandon Phillips to a four-year, $27MM extension.
o * 2-21-08: Signed Josh Fogg to a one-year, $1MM contract.
o * 3-3-08: Signed Corey Patterson to a one-year, $3MM contract.
--- * 4-8-08: Released Mike Stanton
--- * 4-21-08: Released Juan Castro

added that last one...

otherwise, just added my Positive (+) and Negatives (-), IMO of course along with some "WHO CARES or TOO EARLY TO REALLY TELL" (o).

is intereting though. He made a lot of decent moves IMO, but the signings - and subsequent releases for some - really HAMSTRUNG this current roster we see today.

Patterson was a risk, and you can share that risk with Dusty. If they had their heads on straight, they would have offered that Major League contract to Kenny Lofton, instead they fiddle-faddles with the Jay Bruce mirage and had to overpay for Patterson. He may end up surprising, but it was a HUGE risk, especially as related to a Lofton IMO.

Interested to hear y'all's thoughts...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

redsfanmia
04-23-2008, 03:18 PM
I want to go on record and say that this is a terrible move.

Grounds_Crew
04-23-2008, 03:27 PM
From John Fay:

I just spoke briefly to Reds CEO Bob Castellini. I asked him why they made the move with Wayne Krivsky now.

"We're not winning. We haven't started well. It was time."

He said the move was a difficult one.

"He gave it his all. He's a good guy."

Castellini will have more to say at the 4 p.m. press conference.

I think the thing that did Krivsky in was contracts. Mike Stanton, Rheal Cormier, Juan Castro. I've also heard that he and Walt Jocketty were not getting along great.

Krivsky and I had our differences. But I liked the guy. He'll land on his feet.

redsfanmia
04-23-2008, 03:29 PM
When will the dismantling of Reds farm system start?

AccordinglyReds
04-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Wow. I couldn't believe it when I found out. I think Wayne did a pretty good job, and the fact that he handled the farm system pretty well made me like him even more. Though I liked Krivsky, I think he did do a rough job on the situation of the contracts in regards to money. The fact that they have to eat so many contracts didn't help him keep his job. I just hope Jocketty doesn't mess around with the young talent. Trade Valentin, Hatteberg if necessary, but not the youth.

DeadRedinCT
04-23-2008, 03:38 PM
Where did you that number? Bowden, O'Brien, Krivsky, now Jocketty.

I guess I'm including the two-headed GM monster, that included Kullman and the other guy who's name I'm forgetting, that operated between Bowden and O'Brien for half the season. Yeah, not much of regime, but they did acquire Harang during that brief period.

BurgervilleBuck
04-23-2008, 03:45 PM
I wouldn't count on the interim GMs since I doubt they had much influence beyond "don't let the building catch on fire".

Degenerate39
04-23-2008, 03:49 PM
What time is the press conference and is it on ESPN or FSN?

DeadRedinCT
04-23-2008, 03:51 PM
I agree for the most part. But lets not forget that after winning their first title in however many years, Theo Epstein was not given an extension and waited a long time before he came back. I think we mostly agree that we all would love to spend the type of Red Sox or Yankee money. And we all would agree that we knew that when Jocketty was hired, he would eventually replace Wayne. I just think that we were all mostly shocked by the timing of it all.

Epstein was out for all of a couple of weeks, during the offseason. John Henry, principal owner, came to his senses and put Larry Lucchino in his place, restoring the chain of command. Red Sox go on to more success.

And it's not about money. Yankees spend more than the Red Sox and are less successful and have Baby Steinbrenner calling out his GM for not trading for Santana, putting chinks into the Yankees' management hierarchy. I guess I'd like the Reds to emulate the A's (owner --> Billy Beane ---> everyone else), albeit with the infusion of cash that Cast has given.

Ultimately, I don't see how 21 games into the 2008 season is enough to alter one's perception of Krivsky either way. It feels to me that Castellini didn't have any confidence in Krivsky going into the season and, based on that, he should have fired him in the offseason so that his successor would have had time to make changes to MLB roster before the season started. But he didn't, and that's what concerns me. Unfortunately, we as fans can't fire the owner or trade him away.

HeatherC1212
04-23-2008, 04:16 PM
What time is the press conference and is it on ESPN or FSN?

The press conference is scheduled for 4 PM EST and I know for sure that reds.com is carrying it live because I got an email telling me that about an hour ago. ;) I bet a few other local news stations will be carrying it too but I have no clue about FSN or ESPN (although I bet ESPN puts it on the air if they aren't in the middle of something else).

UK Reds Fan
04-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Good list Bleeds.

Krivs negatives.
1. Freel, Castro, Stanton, Cormier, Patterson, Ross, Fogg, Gonzo, etc..wastes of money for no reason.
2. Trading for Cantu only to release him for nothing and we still have a hole at RH batter
3. Stubbs and Merasco drafts give me no appreciation he is a farm system builder. Most of the minor league glamor are Dan O guys today.
4. Never was great with managing 25 man roster.
5. Denorfia for McBeth...what was that all about.

Positives:
1. Phillips
2. Arroyo - Pena
3. Hamilton
4. Jared Burton

Neutrals:
1. The Trade
2. Hamilton - Volquez
3. Dusty Baker

Degenerate39
04-23-2008, 04:43 PM
Good list Bleeds.

Krivs negatives.
1. Freel, Castro, Stanton, Cormier, Patterson, Ross, Fogg, Gonzo, etc..wastes of money for no reason.
2. Trading for Cantu only to release him for nothing and we still have a hole at RH batter
3. Stubbs and Merasco drafts give me no appreciation he is a farm system builder. Most of the minor league glamor are Dan O guys today.
4. Never was great with managing 25 man roster.
5. Denorfia for McBeth...what was that all about.

Positives:
1. Phillips
2. Arroyo - Pena
3. Hamilton
4. Jared Burton
5. Jeff Keppinger
6. Fransisco Cordero

Neutrals:
1. The Trade
2. Hamilton - Volquez
3. Dusty Baker

I had to add those two on the positives.

Degenerate39
04-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Nevermind

AmarilloRed
04-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Here is a pretty telling quote from Castellini:

Castellini said it wasn't absorbing contracts that got Krivsky dismissed.

"Frankly, I blame it on my own impatience," Castellini said. "I wouldn't say that it was a particular thing. We're not going to bat 1.000 [on acquisitions]. The results were not there."

Castellini said Jocketty was signed through the 2011 season.

Jocketty spent the previous 13 seasons as the Cardinals GM. They went to the postseason seven times and won the 2006 World Series during that time. Jocketty was named Major League Baseball's executive of the year by The Sporting News in 2000 and 2004 and by Baseball America in 2000.

In October, Jocketty and St. Louis mutually decided to part ways after a tumultuous 78-win season. He maintained a personal friendship with Castellini, who used to be a minority shareholder of the Cardinals.

On January 11, Jocketty was hired to be a special advisor who reported directly to Castellini. Although he made overtures that he wasn't interested in being a GM again right away, that's just what ended up happening on Wednesday.




So it was not the contracts Krivsky handed out that were the reason he was fired; it was simply that the Reds did not play winning baseball under his tenure. Jocketty seems to have a good resume, let's see if he can do as well for the Reds as he did the Cardinals.

BLEEDS
04-23-2008, 05:09 PM
Another scathing indictment:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Krivsky his own enemy

By Hal McCoy | Wednesday, April 23, 2008, 12:48 PM
What do you think?

Bob Castellini is a businessman, the nation’s leading fruit and vegetable magnate, and if the price of lettuce and tomatoes has soared the last couple of years, it might be traced back to Wayne Krivsky.

Castellini, CEO of the Cincinnati Reds, fired general manager Krivsky today, replacing him with Walt Jocketty.

During Krivsky’s regime, the team has had to eat more dollar bills than the number of heads of lettuce Castellini sells.

Some questionable contracts that forced the team to pay money to players no longer playing for the Reds didn’t help Krivsky’s cause.

It started with when he signed pitcher Rheal Cormier to a two-year contract. When the team released him it had to pay him something like $3 million NOT to pitch.

When the Reds released pitcher Mike Stanton this spring, it forced them to pay him $3.5 million this year NOT to pitch.

And there is that curious contract he gave outfielder Corey Patterson, who was sitting at home doing nothing during spring training, pursued by no other teams. Krivsky signed him for $3 million when Patterson probably would have taken $500,000 and paid his own way to camp.

He gave utility player Ryan Freel a deal that pays him $3 million this year and $4 million next year and couldn’t trade him unless the team absorbed some of that money.

He gave pitcher Josh Fogg a $1.5 million deal mid-spring training when no other teams were pursuing him, a panic move when Krivsky wasn’t certain how good Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez would be.

The $46 million, three-deal for closer Francisco Cordero looked good at the time, but so far, after 21 games, he has had only two save opportunities. That contract may pan out, but right now one wonders.

All this could be overlooked by Castellini if the team showed a propensity for winning, which it hasn’t during Krivsky’s tenure. After all, Castellini signed off on all those deals, taking Krivsky’s advice. Castellini wants to win and he wants to win now.

He and Jocketty worked together in St. Louis when Jocketty helped piece together a team that was not contending to one that contended for more than a decade.

Krivsky and I were friends long before he was named Reds GM. When he worked for the Minnesota Twins, he traveled the country scouting other teams and I encountered him often. We had many lunches together and talked often.

His ambition, of course, was to be a GM and he would say, “If I’d get the Reds job, there are a lot of things I would do and we’d have a lot of fun.”

It wasn’t fun. Krivsky remained my friend, but he changed. He was not forthcoming with information to the media, not even on the most menial things. He was guarded, overly guarded.

Two years ago during the winter meetings in Orlando, I took him aside in his suite after another unproductive media meeting in which he divulged nothing about what the team was doing or trying to do.

I said, “Wayne, remember when we had lunches and chatted about your future and how much fun we’d have together with the Reds?”

“Yes,” he said.

“Well, I’m not having fun,” I said. “Remember when I told you how difficult it was sometimes getting information from your predecessor, Dan O’Brien? Well, you’re worse.”

Krivsky seemed to think about it, but nothing changed. And nothing changed with the Reds.

Nobody likes to see anybody lose his job, especially a friend. But Krivsky cut his own throat.

Jocketty is a good man, too, and a solid baseball man. Things should change, and much for the better.

Dracodave
04-23-2008, 05:14 PM
I like the fact that Walt says we need positive people and WINNING mindsets, Thats amazing. Someone SPOTTED that this team is too HAPPY to lose.

redsfanmia
04-23-2008, 05:26 PM
I like the fact that Walt says we need positive people and WINNING mindsets, Thats amazing. Someone SPOTTED that this team is too HAPPY to lose.

Adam Dunn says hello.

HeatherC1212
04-23-2008, 05:31 PM
Press Conference Comments per John Fay:

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2008/04/press-conference-comments.asp


"I will at some point (address the team). I've discussed that with the staff a little bit today. ... We may wait until we get on the road to do it."

"At some point we may have to change the personnel but right now we're going to stay with the guys we have."

In other words, "Team...a lot of you are playing for your jobs right now. Play well and you stick around but play crappy and you're outta here." :)

GoReds33
04-23-2008, 06:23 PM
I like the move, but it may have been early. Krivsky built up the organization. We are a year from breaking out, and they get rid of him.

I don't know if this was asked yet, but what effect on Dunn's future with the team will this make?

Va Red Fan
04-23-2008, 06:24 PM
WK was good at what he did, but as soon as Jockety joined the club his days were numbered. We'll see what happens now that the owner has his best man in the drivers seat.

DannyB
04-23-2008, 06:46 PM
Frankly,I'm sure I will be as unimpressed with Jocketty as I was with krivsky.When we have a right handed compliment to Votto, a few less ceterfielders and a very good bullpen maybe I will chamge my mind.

mlbfan30
04-23-2008, 07:17 PM
Frankly,I'm sure I will be as unimpressed with Jocketty as I was with krivsky.When we have a right handed compliment to Votto, a few less ceterfielders and a very good bullpen maybe I will chamge my mind.

Votto - MLB Career
--BA OBP SLG OPS
.359 .375 .590 .965 vs. LHP
.313 .346 .576 .922 vs. RHP

So actually Votto does better against LHP than he does RHP.
Votto should never be platooned, he's just a good hitter no matter who he faces.

redsfanmia
04-23-2008, 07:31 PM
Frankly,I'm sure I will be as unimpressed with Jocketty as I was with krivsky.When we have a right handed compliment to Votto, a few less ceterfielders and a very good bullpen maybe I will chamge my mind.

Votto should play every day and the bullpen is good.

AccordinglyReds
04-23-2008, 07:34 PM
Just saw Krivsky's take on this on FSN... :(

Sad to see him not be able to at least finish out the year. Wish you all the best, Wayne!

George Foster
04-23-2008, 07:38 PM
Just saw Krivsky's take on this on FSN... :(

Sad to see him not be able to at least finish out the year. Wish you all the best, Wayne!

He said he fought for his job for over an hour....he almost started crying. God I hate firing people.

I could not help but get a little choked up myself...what a "stand up" guy. Just minutes after you are fired, you answer questions....wow. I could not do that. I have a new found respect for you Mr. Krivsky....good luck and win a ring in the American League...

Blue
04-23-2008, 07:43 PM
Wayne will probably go somewhere else and make the Reds regret firing him. Stupid, stupid move.

Mutaman
04-23-2008, 07:49 PM
Just when I've decided we're a year or two away, and every move should point to 2009/2010, this happens. I liked Krivsky and I liked where he was going (particularly after watching Edinson last night).

I guess cleaning up after the Lindner debacle is going to continue to take some time.

Trace's Daddy
04-23-2008, 08:15 PM
Wow, good luck Wayne! He'll be a GM again soon.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 08:31 PM
Bob Castellini is an idiot, a moron, a dope,...you put in the adjective that describes someone who is completely stupid and has lost his mind.

Wayne Krivsky, I wish you well. Good for you for speaking your mind and not being a "Yes"-man in the likes of John Allen. Good for you for telling Castellini that hiring Baker would be a mistake. Good for you for telling Castellini it's a mistake that giving a guy with a career .298 OBP should be starting and leading off for your ball club when no other club was even interested in him over the winter as a reserve. I also find it hard to believe that the Cordero signing was Krivsky's. That's not his style. That had Castellini written all over it. Krivsky would have spent that much money on starting pitching, not a guy who will throw less than 100 innings.

You can write your own ticket, Wayne, as the job you did in Cincinnati was A+. All the fools that hinted that the trade you made in acquiring Daryl Thompson and Bill Bray for the collective fodder of Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez are eating crow right now. You knew it was a great trade,...a few others knew it, but most people are short-sighted and don't look at the overall picture of things.

No one is more short-sighted than Castellini. Dusty Baker? Walt Jockety? The only reason Walt Jockety ever won anything was because he outspent everyone year after year after year....and even then, he still had as many championships in the last 20 years as the REDS....ONE....and he had fewer than the TWINS...TWO. It's the TWINS formula that will win in Cincinnati, not the Yankees, which is how the Cardinals always tried to operate.

Anybody can do OK if they outspend everyone, but just a few can win when using limited resources. Krivsky is one of the rare people who can do it.

This organization just took 3 steps backwards. Walt Jockety's a joke. He can't win with a small-market team.

Jockety will be able to ride the coattails of O'Brien's and Krivsky's development of both the Minor League teams and the Major League Team. Together, the two of them put this team in position to contend for a World Series Title in 2009-2012. None of that will have anything to do with Dusty Baker or Walt Jockety.

What a smooth move by Jockety. He seized power through coercing Castellini to fire Krivsky so that it will appear that it was he and Baker that turned the REDS into winners.

Sorry, Jockety, but you're a loser. As is Baker.

So, you say "Dusty and I aren't going to accept losing around here". So, you're saying that's Krivsky's fault? Nice political spin there Jockety. You smell of pondscum. The .500 team that this year's REDS were projected to be is the result of Jim Bowden's doings. It was Bowden that ruined this franchise along with the banana-king that didn't want to put money into the organization. But, O'Brien worked around that and started digging the franchise out of the hole. Krivsky continued to do that by making numerous deals in order to find pieces that would work. He's brought in more talent from other organizations than any General Manager for the REDS over the last 50 years, other than, of course the GM that acquired Morgan, Geronimo, Perez, Norman, and Foster.

It's so scary how both Baker and Jockety weasled their way into the REDS' organization. Anyone looking from the outside could see the great turnaround that O'Brien and Krivsky made with this club. The minor league ranking went from the bottom 5 in the Majors to the Top-5 in the Majors in just 4 years. That's remarkable! Only an extremely talented General Manager could have accomplished that.

If you think of the top-20 players in the REDS organization that were scheduled to be here on Opening Day in 2009, 80&#37; of those players were acquired by O'Brien or Krivsky. Now, that's in danger of being destroyed. Jockety will want to put his thumbprint on the organization so he can claim it was he who gave the REDS their first playoff victory since 1995.

The REDS were going to win in 2009 through 2012 without Jockety. Now he could screw this up and rob the minor leagues of it's talent that took the last 4 years to build.

Castellini, maybe you're not stupid, because you wouldn't have hired Krivsky in the first place. But, you don't recognize good talent when it's sitting in the board room with you.


.....and where are the Cardinal now? You'd think after running an organization for 14 years, you'd leave them in good shape. What, you say? They're no better than the REDS are right now...projected to be a .500 team this year, and going the wrong direction, getting worse not better. If you're so great, why'd the Cardinals get rid of you? Oh, that was your decision. Yeah, right. We can tell by the state of their franchise that it was "your" decision. If it was, you did it so you could leave town early before they ran you out of town. All that high-priced talent you purchased for them is old, injured, or gone, and you left the cubbards bare. We've already been down that road once with Bowden. Except Bowden didn't have the money to spend, so he traded away all the talent. I'm sure you'll do the same thing here, and the REDS will become a losing franchise again after the 2010 season. Better hope Wayne and Dan's talent that they left you gives you a World Series title soon.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 08:49 PM
And that was a really CRAPPY article by Paul Daugherty and John Fay on why Krivsky was fired today.

If you did anything but win when you spend like this, you'd be an idiot:

REDS:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $ 74,117,695
2007: $ 68,904,980
2006: $ 60,909,519
2005: $ 61,892,583
2004: $ 46,615,250
2003: $ 59,355,667
2002: $ 45,050,390
2001: $ 48,986,000
2000: $ 44,200,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players
$3,000,000 (Mike Stanton) (plus $0.5M 2009 buyout)

Cardinals:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $ 99,624,449
2007: $ 90,286,823
2006: $ 88,891,371
2005: $ 92,106,833
2004: $ 83,228,333
2003: $ 83,786,666
2002: $ 74,660,875
2001: $ 78,538,333
2000: $ 63,900,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players:
$2,000,000 (Jim Edmonds)
$2,300,000 (Scott Spiezio) (plus $100,000 2009 buyout)


Since Jockety became G.M. in 1995 when the Cardinals new ownership took over, they had outspent everyone in their own division every year until 2004, when the CUBS decided to become the biggest spender. The Astros even spent less than the Cardinals during their days with Randy Johnson. Then in 2005, the Cardinals outspent them once again, but in the end, but then the CUBS passed them again in 2006 and then blew them away in 2008. I'm sure Jockety saw the writing on the wall and realized that he wasn't going to be the biggest spender anymore, so he went after the team with the most talent in it's system, and that was poised to contend just one year away. He wriggled his way into the organization like the slimy snake that he is and grabbed the job away from Krivsky. The timing is impecable as Jockety's trying to make himself the knight in shining armor riding in on his white horse. What slimebags Baker and Jockety are....they always have been and they always will be.


CUBS:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $118,345,833
2007: $ 99,670,332
2006: $ 94,424,499
2005: $ 87,032,933
2004: $ 90,560,000
2003: $ 79,868,333
2002: $ 75,690,833
2001: $ 64,715,833
2000: $ 62,100,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players:
$2,000,000 (Jacque Jones)

We're going to win a Division Title, and have a legitimate shot a World Series title thanks to Krivsky and O'Brien. But, when their work is gone through trades and abuse and misuse by Baker and Jockety, say hello to another decade of hell. Better enjoy the next 3 years while you can because that's the REDS' window of opportunity.

WildcatFan
04-23-2008, 09:31 PM
Heard Jocketty on tonight's broadcast, and it sounded like he disagreed a little with Thom's point of Cast being in win-now mode. Jock said he would rather build this team for the future and cited the young guns and the Cordero deal as signs of a winning team for a long time. Obviously, he will still have to prove that he means it, but to contradict a question like that shows that he understands what he's got.

No doubt Krivsky was the right man for the job in 2006. Nobody else could have built that team to respectability with the mess O'Brien left and a low payroll. Cue Brandon Phillips, Scott Hatteberg, Bronson Arroyo and David Ross. Now that he had the nucleus in order, Cast felt better about throwing out bigger sums of money at some of the bigger boys. Since that decision has been made, we've seen Francisco Cordero and...

Mike Stanton's fat contract
Josh Fogg
Juan Castro
Corey Patterson for 4x what he was worth
Jeremy Affeldt (good move, but for $3 mil?)

Maybe it's time for a guy who has a better grasp of where the big bucks should go. Krivsky, a great baseball guy, found the diamonds in the rough. Jocketty will supplement them with proven talent hopefully for reasonable prices.

It's tough to see a guy like Krivsky go, but it seems like this could be the right direction.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 09:51 PM
Perfect and to the point on Bob Castellini.

Dumping Krivsky just latest proof Reds don't have a clue

April 23, 2008
By Scott Miller
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

It was only three springs ago in Sarasota, Fla., that I was sitting in Cincinnati owner Bob Castellini's office, discussing his big plans for the Reds and listening to him rave about his just-hired general manager, Wayne Krivsky.

Castellini spoke of the importance of patience in rebuilding the Reds. He pointed to the Minnesota Twins -- where he found Krivsky -- as a model organization.

Wayne Krivsky didn't have a prayer of finishing the job he started in Cincinnati.

One of the keys to the Twins' success, he told me, is their continuity. Smart people were running the baseball operations, and they were allowed to keep doing their jobs even in the lean years. The result was a strong foundation that, more often than not, has thrived.

That Castellini fired Krivsky on a bloody Wednesday in Cincinnati speaks to a couple of things:

It's the latest telling moment as to why the Reds remain the game's equivalent of a lost ball in tall weeds.

And it pulls back the curtain to reveal a glimpse of the way things continue to work far too often in this game -- that it's all about who you know.

Castellini was a minority owner of the St. Louis Cardinals for years. And last summer, as Cards general manager Walt Jocketty was becoming more and more disenchanted with the way things were going there, strong rumors sprung up that Jocketty and manager Tony La Russa would replace Krivsky and whoever the Reds' manager du jour was at the time. (Jerry Narron? Pete Mackanin? Tough to keep up.)

When the Cardinals fired Jocketty after the season, sure enough, Castellini couldn't contain his lust, quickly striking to add his friend as an adviser.

That's all well and good -- under certain circumstances. Jocketty had a terrific run with the Cardinals, and as far as a down-and-out organization like the Reds goes, the more bright minds, the better.

Except Jocketty's presence brought a whole lot of unwelcome questions for Krivsky. And the fact neither Castellini nor Jocketty ever really said Jocketty's days as a GM were finished wound up putting Krivsky in an untenable situation.

That Jocketty was on deck to take over for Krivsky if the Reds faltered was the game's worst-kept secret. This was the final season of Krivsky's contract, the Reds brought high-profile manager Dusty Baker in over the winter (another sign of Krivsky's eroding power) and most folks figured if Cincinnati didn't contend, Jocketty would be running things in 2009.

But to blow out Krivsky just three weeks into '08 with the Reds, at 9-12, only 21 games into their season?

It's a completely knee-jerk move by an owner whose credibility just took a colossal hit.

What happened to continuity?

What happened to patience?

Castellini's words, it turns out, were only lip service. That thing about putting good people in place and letting them do their jobs? Hogwash.

It's a poor way to run a franchise. It's a worse way to treat a human being (especially one who was hired in February 2006, only days before the start of spring training, and was forced to learn everything about the Reds on the fly).

Krivsky's record was not perfect, and part of his legacy will be that terrible decision to deal Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez as part of a package to Washington that brought relievers Gary Majewski (who turned out to be hurt) and Bill Bray while the Reds were struggling to contend in 2006.

But he also struck an excellent trade to bring second baseman Brandon Phillips from Cleveland. He's the guy who was a genius two years ago for acquiring Bronson Arroyo from Boston. And he lasered in on right-hander Edinson Volquez in Texas last fall when the Rangers asked about outfielder Josh Hamilton.

Through several weeks of trade talks, Rangers GM Jon Daniels told me this spring, Krivsky insisted that Volquez had to be part of any deal for Hamilton.

"Wayne was pretty clear what it was going to cost from Day 1," Daniels said during our conversation in Surprise, Ariz. "It took us awhile. I tried a lot of different variations without giving up Volquez. But Wayne stuck with Volquez."

This season, Volquez is 3-0 with a 1.21 ERA in four starts for the Reds.

A week or so ago in San Diego's Petco Park, with various televisions tuned to several out-of-town games in the Padres clubhouse, future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux sat glued to the Reds game, locked in on Volquez.

"Who is this guy?" an impressed Maddux asked, as if happening upon an undiscovered gem.

The depressing thing for those who follow the Reds is that every time the club starts in one direction, it only lasts a few steps before they change again. Now in his fifth season, outfielder Ryan Freel already has played for five different managers.

Upstairs, Krivsky made some enemies by firing some Reds scouts and rearranging some things, but again, if he wasn't even going to be allowed to finish his third season, what was the point of allowing him that much latitude to begin with? Now all it accomplished was disrupting the organization.

Of 63 players in camp during Krivsky's first spring in 2006, only 14 of them were left this spring. And of 32 pitchers then, only four were still around in '08.

There was a plan ... and now there's not.

During another long conversation this spring in Florida, this one with Krivsky, the now-deposed GM quickly told me to "go ask Walt" when I asked about the inner workings of the Castellini-Jocketty-Krivsky triumverate and whether Jocketty one day would become a GM again. (I did, and Jocketty said at that point he wasn't sure what his plans were.)

"Everybody has a job to do," Krivsky said. "I've got to supply the players. The player-development people have to do their job. The coaching staff has to do its job. It's a team effort.

"Stability is important. Look at the successful organizations. It doesn't matter what sport. Look at the New England Patriots, San Antonio Spurs, Minnesota Twins, the Atlanta Braves. There's some continuity with successful franchises.

"Look at the Braves, and how long Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz have been there, and a lot of other people, too."

Now look at the Reds, and how the people continue to shuffle in and out.

There was a plan ... and now, today, there's not.

Again.

757690
04-23-2008, 10:16 PM
And that was a really CRAPPY article by Paul Daugherty and John Fay on why Krivsky was fired today.

If you did anything but win when you spend like this, you'd be an idiot:

REDS:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $ 74,117,695
2007: $ 68,904,980
2006: $ 60,909,519
2005: $ 61,892,583
2004: $ 46,615,250
2003: $ 59,355,667
2002: $ 45,050,390
2001: $ 48,986,000
2000: $ 44,200,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players
$3,000,000 (Mike Stanton) (plus $0.5M 2009 buyout)

Cardinals:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $ 99,624,449
2007: $ 90,286,823
2006: $ 88,891,371
2005: $ 92,106,833
2004: $ 83,228,333
2003: $ 83,786,666
2002: $ 74,660,875
2001: $ 78,538,333
2000: $ 63,900,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players:
$2,000,000 (Jim Edmonds)
$2,300,000 (Scott Spiezio) (plus $100,000 2009 buyout)


Since Jockety became G.M. in 1995 when the Cardinals new ownership took over, they had outspent everyone in their own division every year until 2004, when the CUBS decided to become the biggest spender. The Astros even spent less than the Cardinals during their days with Randy Johnson. Then in 2005, the Cardinals outspent them once again, but in the end, but then the CUBS passed them again in 2006 and then blew them away in 2008. I'm sure Jockety saw the writing on the wall and realized that he wasn't going to be the biggest spender anymore, so he went after the team with the most talent in it's system, and that was poised to contend just one year away. He wriggled his way into the organization like the slimy snake that he is and grabbed the job away from Krivsky. The timing is impecable as Jockety's trying to make himself the knight in shining armor riding in on his white horse. What slimebags Baker and Jockety are....they always have been and they always will be.


CUBS:

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):

2008: $118,345,833
2007: $ 99,670,332
2006: $ 94,424,499
2005: $ 87,032,933
2004: $ 90,560,000
2003: $ 79,868,333
2002: $ 75,690,833
2001: $ 64,715,833
2000: $ 62,100,000

2008 payroll obligations for former players:
$2,000,000 (Jacque Jones)

We're going to win a Division Title, and have a legitimate shot a World Series title thanks to Krivsky and O'Brien. But, when their work is gone through trades and abuse and misuse by Baker and Jockety, say hello to another decade of hell. Better enjoy the next 3 years while you can because that's the REDS' window of opportunity.

I will attempt to ignore your hate-filled, offensive personal attacks, and address the errors in facts and logic that overwhelm your angry rant.

Spending money definitely helps a team win, in fact, I think it is difficult to win without it. However, spending money does not at all guarantee success, as you incorrectly assert.

During the years you listed, the following teams spent nearly as much or more than the Cardinals:

Orioles
Cubs
Dodgers
Mets
Phillies
Mariners
Rangers (during the A-Rod years, they overspent nearly everyone)

These seven teams went to the playoffs, a combined 8 times during the last 8 years, the Cardinals 6 times. And none of those teams ever went to the World Series in that span. The Cardinals did it twice, winning once.

It takes money to win, PLUS the brains to know what to do with it. Jocketty has made some of the best trades in baseball during his tenure with the Cardinals, (Rolan, Edmonds, McGwire, Isringhausen) with only one glaring exception (Mulder for Haren), and that exception them helped them win a World Series. I would gladly take the success he has given the Cardinals for 13 seasons, (seven playoffs and and a ring) even if it meant that at the end of the 13 years, the farm system was empty.

Also, Krivsky did do a good job of building a strong farm system, but he had shown other faults, the biggest being the inability to have a master plan. He could go find undervalued talent, but he could not build a balanced roster, one that was centered on winning.

That is one of Jocketty's strengths, planning, building not just a talented team, but a winning team. He did it in Oakland and in St. Louis. I hate to see Krivsky go too, he was a good man, and good GM, but I think he did all he could to help this team, and a better General was needed.

757690
04-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Perfect and to the point on Bob Castellini.

Dumping Krivsky just latest proof Reds don't have a clue

April 23, 2008
By Scott Miller
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

It was only three springs ago in Sarasota, Fla., that I was sitting in Cincinnati owner Bob Castellini's office, discussing his big plans for the Reds and listening to him rave about his just-hired general manager, Wayne Krivsky.

Castellini spoke of the importance of patience in rebuilding the Reds. He pointed to the Minnesota Twins -- where he found Krivsky -- as a model organization.

Wayne Krivsky didn't have a prayer of finishing the job he started in Cincinnati.

One of the keys to the Twins' success, he told me, is their continuity. Smart people were running the baseball operations, and they were allowed to keep doing their jobs even in the lean years. The result was a strong foundation that, more often than not, has thrived.

That Castellini fired Krivsky on a bloody Wednesday in Cincinnati speaks to a couple of things:

It's the latest telling moment as to why the Reds remain the game's equivalent of a lost ball in tall weeds.

And it pulls back the curtain to reveal a glimpse of the way things continue to work far too often in this game -- that it's all about who you know.

Castellini was a minority owner of the St. Louis Cardinals for years. And last summer, as Cards general manager Walt Jocketty was becoming more and more disenchanted with the way things were going there, strong rumors sprung up that Jocketty and manager Tony La Russa would replace Krivsky and whoever the Reds' manager du jour was at the time. (Jerry Narron? Pete Mackanin? Tough to keep up.)

When the Cardinals fired Jocketty after the season, sure enough, Castellini couldn't contain his lust, quickly striking to add his friend as an adviser.

That's all well and good -- under certain circumstances. Jocketty had a terrific run with the Cardinals, and as far as a down-and-out organization like the Reds goes, the more bright minds, the better.

Except Jocketty's presence brought a whole lot of unwelcome questions for Krivsky. And the fact neither Castellini nor Jocketty ever really said Jocketty's days as a GM were finished wound up putting Krivsky in an untenable situation.

That Jocketty was on deck to take over for Krivsky if the Reds faltered was the game's worst-kept secret. This was the final season of Krivsky's contract, the Reds brought high-profile manager Dusty Baker in over the winter (another sign of Krivsky's eroding power) and most folks figured if Cincinnati didn't contend, Jocketty would be running things in 2009.

But to blow out Krivsky just three weeks into '08 with the Reds, at 9-12, only 21 games into their season?

It's a completely knee-jerk move by an owner whose credibility just took a colossal hit.

What happened to continuity?

What happened to patience?

Castellini's words, it turns out, were only lip service. That thing about putting good people in place and letting them do their jobs? Hogwash.

It's a poor way to run a franchise. It's a worse way to treat a human being (especially one who was hired in February 2006, only days before the start of spring training, and was forced to learn everything about the Reds on the fly).

Krivsky's record was not perfect, and part of his legacy will be that terrible decision to deal Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez as part of a package to Washington that brought relievers Gary Majewski (who turned out to be hurt) and Bill Bray while the Reds were struggling to contend in 2006.

But he also struck an excellent trade to bring second baseman Brandon Phillips from Cleveland. He's the guy who was a genius two years ago for acquiring Bronson Arroyo from Boston. And he lasered in on right-hander Edinson Volquez in Texas last fall when the Rangers asked about outfielder Josh Hamilton.

Through several weeks of trade talks, Rangers GM Jon Daniels told me this spring, Krivsky insisted that Volquez had to be part of any deal for Hamilton.

"Wayne was pretty clear what it was going to cost from Day 1," Daniels said during our conversation in Surprise, Ariz. "It took us awhile. I tried a lot of different variations without giving up Volquez. But Wayne stuck with Volquez."

This season, Volquez is 3-0 with a 1.21 ERA in four starts for the Reds.

A week or so ago in San Diego's Petco Park, with various televisions tuned to several out-of-town games in the Padres clubhouse, future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux sat glued to the Reds game, locked in on Volquez.

"Who is this guy?" an impressed Maddux asked, as if happening upon an undiscovered gem.

The depressing thing for those who follow the Reds is that every time the club starts in one direction, it only lasts a few steps before they change again. Now in his fifth season, outfielder Ryan Freel already has played for five different managers.

Upstairs, Krivsky made some enemies by firing some Reds scouts and rearranging some things, but again, if he wasn't even going to be allowed to finish his third season, what was the point of allowing him that much latitude to begin with? Now all it accomplished was disrupting the organization.

Of 63 players in camp during Krivsky's first spring in 2006, only 14 of them were left this spring. And of 32 pitchers then, only four were still around in '08.

There was a plan ... and now there's not.

During another long conversation this spring in Florida, this one with Krivsky, the now-deposed GM quickly told me to "go ask Walt" when I asked about the inner workings of the Castellini-Jocketty-Krivsky triumverate and whether Jocketty one day would become a GM again. (I did, and Jocketty said at that point he wasn't sure what his plans were.)

"Everybody has a job to do," Krivsky said. "I've got to supply the players. The player-development people have to do their job. The coaching staff has to do its job. It's a team effort.

"Stability is important. Look at the successful organizations. It doesn't matter what sport. Look at the New England Patriots, San Antonio Spurs, Minnesota Twins, the Atlanta Braves. There's some continuity with successful franchises.

"Look at the Braves, and how long Bobby Cox and John Schuerholz have been there, and a lot of other people, too."

Now look at the Reds, and how the people continue to shuffle in and out.

There was a plan ... and now, today, there's not.

Again.

Completely disagree with Scott Miller, again. There was not plan, Krivsky never had a plan, never could build a team centered around winning. Jocketty strength is that he has a plan and sticks with it. His first words when asked what is he going to do first, "Develop a plan for winning."

Miller is just plain wrong on this.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Completely disagree with Scott Miller, again. There was not plan, Krivsky never had a plan, never could build a team centered around winning. Jocketty strength is that he has a plan and sticks with it. His first words when asked what is he going to do first, "Develop a plan for winning."

Miller is just plain wrong on this.

757690, you'll be able to add "10" to that number thanks to the "Genius" work of Wayne Krivsky.

Scott Miller wrote what was true. You only disagree with it because you don't know enough about it. I find that hard to believe since you have access to this site. There are enough posts at REDSZONE to show you what Krivsky's plan has been from the get-go. Confer with some of the the people who pay more attention to the minor league system of the REDS and they'll tell you. It's quite remarkable what Krivsky has done in such a short time with the REDS. Enjoy the next few years. It's all Krivsky's doing.

AdamDunn
04-23-2008, 11:17 PM
757690, you'll be able to add "10" to that number thanks to the "Genius" work of Wayne Krivsky.

Scott Miller wrote what was true. You only disagree with it because you don't know enough about it. I find that hard to believe since you have access to this site. There are enough posts at REDSZONE to show you what Krivsky's plan has been from the get-go. Confer with some of the the people who pay more attention to the minor league system of the REDS and they'll tell you. It's quite remarkable what Krivsky has done in such a short time with the REDS. Enjoy the next few years. It's all Krivsky's doing.

Agreed. And Dan 0'Brien's doing (see Cueto, Bailey, Bruce, Harang). But honestly, Jocketty might trade away the prospects for big time contracts. So... we might not be enjoying the next few years.

Mutaman
04-23-2008, 11:24 PM
Perhaps in honor of Wayne's firing, Gary Majewski got a hold in the Bats win tonight. He only gave up 2 hits and a walk in 1 2/3 innings and lowered his ERA under 10.00.

Mutaman
04-23-2008, 11:30 PM
What slimebags Baker and Jockety are....they always have been and they always will be.



I know its been another tough day for us Redleg fans but this kind of post is really uncalled for.

757690
04-23-2008, 11:49 PM
757690, you'll be able to add "10" to that number thanks to the "Genius" work of Wayne Krivsky.

Scott Miller wrote what was true. You only disagree with it because you don't know enough about it. I find that hard to believe since you have access to this site. There are enough posts at REDSZONE to show you what Krivsky's plan has been from the get-go. Confer with some of the the people who pay more attention to the minor league system of the REDS and they'll tell you. It's quite remarkable what Krivsky has done in such a short time with the REDS. Enjoy the next few years. It's all Krivsky's doing.

First, we agree that Wayne did a great job as GM of the Reds. He started the turn around of what was one of the worst franchises in the majors, to now one that is on the rise. I personally am sad to see him go, he seemed like a class act. I also will agree that the timing was curious.

However, having a strong minor league system is not a plan. You need to have a plan as to how to use it to build a strong, balanced major league team. The Reds in the mid to late 80's had a great system, but didn't use the resources it had to get enough pitching. It wasn't until 87-88 when they used it to acquire Rijo and Jackson that they went to and won the World Series in 90.

The Reds roster and system is loaded with talent, but it still has lots of holes.
I think that Cast saw that Krivsky was not willing to make the moves that Cast thought were needed to turn this team into a winning team. I think Krivsky became too attached to certain players who were talented, but who didn't fit on the Reds roster. This became especially clear after the first few weeks when glaring holes became evident, and decided that he needed some one who would be willing to make those changes.

I personally have a feeling that Jocketty will move some veteran players like Dunn, Phillips, and EE before he moves any young talent. Well see.

Kingspoint
04-24-2008, 12:00 AM
Agreed. And Dan 0'Brien's doing (see Cueto, Bailey, Bruce, Harang). But honestly, Jocketty might trade away the prospects for big time contracts. So... we might not be enjoying the next few years.
Yes, I was going to edit that...

Kingspoint
04-24-2008, 12:20 AM
Also, Krivsky did do a good job of building a strong farm system, but he had shown other faults, the biggest being the inability to have a master plan. He could go find undervalued talent, but he could not build a balanced roster, one that was centered on winning.



Krivsky's plan was clearly there. Very few people at the time of "the trade" saw that Thompson was the 2nd best player in that trade, and that Bray was the best. Krivsky was building up the entire organization knowing that Thompson wouldn't pay off at the big leage level for 5 years. He continually made deals with that thinking in mind, while at the same time picking up pieces for the Major League club that would help instantly, but if they helped enough, he would have made a run at a Division title. But 2006, 2007 were unrealistic to think that could happen, and so is 2008. He clearly had a masterplan. He was getting results faster than any G.M. I've ever seen. You've got to be realistic. 2 years and 3 months ago, this organization was in horrible shape. O'Brien focused on what was the most importants aspect of his regime...firing most of the organizational staff and increasing the overseas scouting departments. He got rid of a lot of dead wood that was there under the Marge Schott and Jim Bowden system. Krivsky took that to the next level and used his better talents to acquire players through trades and rule v pickups. He morphed O'Brien's improvements into even better improvements. What's sad is that 90% of the fans only look at what's going on in the Win-Loss department of the big league club. That is not what one should look at in 2008 under Krivsky. Under 2009, yes. That would be his 3rd full year in control of the team. In 2006 he took over right before Spring Training, so there wasn't much he could do, but he did quite a bit.

You're off with those payroll numbers analogy you were trying to make. Forget about AL clubs. We're talking about winning in the National League. The NL East doesn't matter either as that's a division that spends money. The only division we're talking about is the NL Central, where as you mistakenly pointed out with the Cubs, the Cardinals spent more money than everybody including the Cubs, and they spent quite a bit more than everybody. Jockety left after he started being outspent. He wasted more money than any G.M. in the division. If one $30M move didn't work out, he just made another and another and another and another. He finally got outspent and couldn't compete. And he is a slimebag the way he swooped into the REDS organization and screwed it up. The team is now worse off with him in charge. Pity anybody who says, "No" to Walt Jockety or wants to be strong about their opinion. They'll be fired before they get off the phone.

Kingspoint
04-24-2008, 12:22 AM
I know its been another tough day for us Redleg fans but this kind of post is really uncalled for.


Get off your highhorse. A slimebag is a slimebag.

What do you call someone who slithers into an organization in order to seize control and can only do so by cutting off the head of the best person in the organization? I call him a lot worse, but to be gentile, he's a slimebag.

Mutaman
04-24-2008, 12:25 AM
Get off your highhorse. A slimebag is a slimebag.

What do you call someone who slithers into an organization in order to seize control and can only do so by cutting off the head of the best person in the organization? I call him a lot worse, but to be gentile, he's a slimebag.

I'd call these posts slightly unhinged.

757690
04-24-2008, 01:38 AM
Krivsky's plan was clearly there. Very few people at the time of "the trade" saw that Thompson was the 2nd best player in that trade, and that Bray was the best. Krivsky was building up the entire organization knowing that Thompson wouldn't pay off at the big leage level for 5 years. He continually made deals with that thinking in mind, while at the same time picking up pieces for the Major League club that would help instantly, but if they helped enough, he would have made a run at a Division title. But 2006, 2007 were unrealistic to think that could happen, and so is 2008. He clearly had a masterplan. He was getting results faster than any G.M. I've ever seen. You've got to be realistic. 2 years and 3 months ago, this organization was in horrible shape. O'Brien focused on what was the most importants aspect of his regime...firing most of the organizational staff and increasing the overseas scouting departments. He got rid of a lot of dead wood that was there under the Marge Schott and Jim Bowden system. Krivsky took that to the next level and used his better talents to acquire players through trades and rule v pickups. He morphed O'Brien's improvements into even better improvements. What's sad is that 90% of the fans only look at what's going on in the Win-Loss department of the big league club. That is not what one should look at in 2008 under Krivsky. Under 2009, yes. That would be his 3rd full year in control of the team. In 2006 he took over right before Spring Training, so there wasn't much he could do, but he did quite a bit.

You're off with those payroll numbers analogy you were trying to make. Forget about AL clubs. We're talking about winning in the National League. The NL East doesn't matter either as that's a division that spends money. The only division we're talking about is the NL Central, where as you mistakenly pointed out with the Cubs, the Cardinals spent more money than everybody including the Cubs, and they spent quite a bit more than everybody. Jockety left after he started being outspent. He wasted more money than any G.M. in the division. If one $30M move didn't work out, he just made another and another and another and another. He finally got outspent and couldn't compete. And he is a slimebag the way he swooped into the REDS organization and screwed it up. The team is now worse off with him in charge. Pity anybody who says, "No" to Walt Jockety or wants to be strong about their opinion. They'll be fired before they get off the phone.

1) Again, a good minor league system is not a plan. I agree Krivsky did a great job, but he seemed to be poor at making decisions about the major league team. He did not have a plan to build a balanced roster. The Reds have lots of talented players, but they don't have a winning team. I don't know any other way to say that.

2) Never said Cubs outspent Cardinals. And only one of the teams I mentioned is in the AL East. You can't deny that all the teams I mentioned tried to buy a title by spending as much money as they could, and that all the teams failed. My only point is to demonstrate that just because you outspend everyone else, that does not mean that you will win.

3) "He wasted more money than any G.M. in the division."

Really? I don't see how money that gets you a World Series ring is wasted. And how many big money acquisitions by Jocketty were wasted money? I can think of Mulder and Danny Jackson, a pretty good record for 13 years. Krivsky had more in his two years.

4) "Pity anybody who says, "No" to Walt Jockety or wants to be strong about their opinion. They'll be fired before they get off the phone."

Funny, because that is the rep that Krivsky had and probably the reason why he was fired. He fired or forced to quit everyone who disagreed with him, including the best scout the Reds had, Johnny Alverez. Krivsky's greatest fault is that he was too dictatorial in all of his professional relationships. Read the article by Hal McCoy, Krivsky's long time friend. It is very revealing.

AmarilloRed
04-24-2008, 02:13 AM
Let's look at the reasons Krivsky was fired: He handed out several questionable contracts, made some bad decisions as far as personnel are concerned, was a little difficult to work with(See Johnny Almaraz),and didn't work well in dealing with the media or with the public. There is no question he turned the organization around; he just may have not been the best person to bring winning baseball to Cincinnati. As far as Jocketty is concerned, I will wait and see. He has a very good record in St. Louis, I hope he can do the same thing for Cincinnati.

ChatterRed
04-24-2008, 10:14 AM
I'm not happy at all with the direction of this organization. I saw a plan before Krivsky was fired.

Jocketty is overrated.

Baker is overrated.

I have lost alot of respect for Castellini. Stability and continuity is a very important factor in successful organizations. Hopefully the stability is starting now. But seeing the track record of upheaval from Castellini so far, I seriously doubt it.

If Jocketty starts trading all our young prospects away, I will never watch a Reds game again. Not kidding. The rebirth of our farm system and going young is what the plan is/was. Dunn would be gone after this year and Bruce was his replacement.

BLEEDS
04-24-2008, 06:08 PM
Good debate and info guys. Very nice. Much appreciated.

IMO, I think the true answer lies somewhere in the middle. Kriv was good, but his time was up, and he wore out his welcome.

We did have a plan. The original plan (or phase One of the BIG plan if you will) was to mirror the Twins organization. Small Market team, smart moves with little risk, take your gems and cut your misses.

Now the plan changed (or phase Two of the BIG plan if you will) and was to quit using the Small Market model, and jump up with the Big Boys. Use your developed/acquired talent, and a BIGGER PAYROLL to morph into WIN NOW Mode.
You've got some good solid starting pitchers (Harang, Arroyo) and a few reliable vets (Griffey, Dunn) and a couple gems you found (Phillips, Hamilton) to go with a group of young guys who are emerging and CHEAP (Votto, Bruce, Bailey, Cueto) lined up for a SMALL window of opportunity (2008-2011).
TRADE some of these pieces, and go out in FA to complement this team.
Cordero - Check. Hamilton for Volquez - Check. Anything else? - BUZZZ!!! Thanks for Playing.
End results: Left with Patterson, Hopper, Freel, and 14 left handed 1b-men and Catchers. Couple that with some lead-balloon contracts handed out to crappy roster slugs (too many to list). Start off with a horrid beginning to the 2008 season, and you got your Coupe De Gracie...

Time for the Change.
Bring in a guy who knows how to make deals to WIN NOW, will get rid of some POTENTIAL for some PROVEN MAJOR LEAGUE Production, and yes, maybe Overpay for it - you know, like the Big Boys do.
2012 the Window closes anyhow, no way you can keep Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, BP and a Dunn (let's assume) along with Voltar, Cueto, Bailey, Bruce, EE, and Votto entering Arbitration and Free Agency, beyond then. Not even if we won 3 World Series and added 40,000 Seats to GABP and sold out every game.

Time to strike while the fire is hot and add some LOGS instead of kindling.

Jockety is the guy for that. Not a Minnesota Twins philosophy.

Just my $.02.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

improbus
04-25-2008, 02:50 PM
I remember looking at a Baseball Prospectus article this spring and seeing multiple Reds prospects in the top 50. That was new to me. Krivsky had alot to do with it. He didn't trade prospects, he dumped guys that needed to go (Kearns, Wagner, Lopez, Stanton, LaRue, etc...), and he set this team up to win. Historically, the Reds did enough to get by. They had enough big league talent to go around .500 every year but not enough to contend, but the feeling had changed with Krivsky. I feel good about the Reds for the next five years and that is a new sensation for me as a Reds fan. I can't help but see that as a direct result of Krivsky. It is not his fault that Stormy and Arroyo can't get anyone out and that Dunn and Phillips are not hitting anything. We are less that 25 games into a 162 game season, there was no need to panic.

goreds2
04-29-2008, 11:16 PM
Walt is in the booth with Marty in the event someone is not listening on the radio.

tommycash
04-30-2008, 10:12 AM
I think our propects in the minors have a lot more to do with O'Brien than they do with Krivsky.
Notable O'Brien Picks: Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey, Paul Janish, and also signed Non-Drafted Free Agent Johnny Cueto
Krivsky Notables: Stubbs, Roenicke, and Mesoraco.

Even Though Bowden was a terrible GM and terrible on draft day, he did draft Votto and Dickerson.

I don't think O'Brien gets enough credit for his drafting ability, and for what he did to help our minor leagues. Now I wouldn't say I would want him back as GM, but he did do some good things here.

The 4 Reds in the Top 50 MLB prospects list were Bruce, Bailey, Votto, and Cueto. Like I said before Bruce, Bailey, and Cueto all came from O'Brien, while Votto came from Bowden.