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View Full Version : Concerns about Arroyo



ChatterRed
04-23-2008, 08:28 PM
Relieved after giving up 10 hits by the 4th inning. Yikes. :thumbdown

BEETTLEBUG
04-23-2008, 08:30 PM
Is he hurt and won't say or is he just a jerk? Take away his Guitar.

Hondo
04-23-2008, 08:31 PM
Yeah, firing WK and Having Jock take over sure lit a Fire under these guys...

Although I think the move will result in a contender... More of the same...

CRedsLarkin11
04-23-2008, 08:33 PM
Well, I don't think Jocketty has much to do with this beatdown tonight, haha, a little overreaction. It's going to take a little while to get this team where it needs to be. But I do agree, Arroyo's horrid start is a cause for concern

WildcatFan
04-23-2008, 08:36 PM
Arroyo is relying more and more on his curveball, and hitters are wisening up to it. His below-average fastball isn't setting up that curve, so he's getting hit early. That is what made him a bullpen guy in Boston — he's a solid strikeout pitcher, but eventually hitters will sit on the curveball.

keeganbrick
04-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Is he hurt and won't say or is he just a jerk? Take away his Guitar.

Last year he just seemed to hang his breaking balls to left handers. This year, it seems that he is hanging it to both hitters which is very scary. I dont think he is injured but I bet if his next start is like this one he will get placed on the DL regardless.

REDblooded
04-23-2008, 08:45 PM
Krivsky, would you mind taking Arroyo with you?

zakthemack
04-23-2008, 08:50 PM
I just don't understand what the issue is. It's becoming abundantly clear that Bronson is going to need to be moved. How much do the Reds stand to eat if he's released?

REDblooded
04-23-2008, 08:51 PM
They stand to eat one rotten Oreo

Jefferson24
04-23-2008, 08:52 PM
I just don't understand what the issue is. It's becoming abundantly clear that Bronson is going to need to be moved. How much do the Reds stand to eat if he's released?

A ton of money. Not an option. He will have to sent to the pen and be the most expensive mop up guy ever.

Jack Burton
04-23-2008, 08:54 PM
For Fogg and Arroyo to collect checks so far this year is robbery.

zakthemack
04-23-2008, 08:54 PM
To be honest, I don't even know that Arroyo is the biggest issue. I frankly do not understand how hard it would be for Dusty to tell his batters "continue to swing at the first pitch and you'll be benched." I'm just troubled by what I see as a pretty basic facet of batting. Just very frustrating.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 09:01 PM
Concerns about Arroyo?

His behind is being pounded like a rented mule.

A WHIP of around 1.80 with a SLG around .600. This isn't a slow start. With quality players availabel at AAA, you have to consider the DL, and then rehabbing in AAA to work these things out where it doesn't cost the team games. No reason to let a guy pitch with an ERA around 7.00 unless you're going to either drop him into the #5 role or move him into long relief and give someone else a chance. 5 starts and 4-1/2 poor performances. His last effort was acceptable.

But, since this isn't Sega Playstation, Arroyo's going to get another 5 starts before anything goes on.

Okay, Walt Jockety. You opened your big mouth, and like a slimy snake got the best person in the organization fired so you could ride his gravy train of success that he's set up for the REDS. What are you going to do about Arroyo. We know what Wayne Krivsky would do. The Right Thing.

Hondo
04-23-2008, 09:04 PM
I am hoping Bronson can turn it around. You really cannot comapre him to Fogg cause Arroyo has pitched 200 Innings, and provided quality starts...

The worst thing about Fogg is that he took time away from someone who could be contributing... Guys like Fogg, Castro, Stanton, Merker, Patterson, Hariston, Coffey, Valentin, Beliese are all a waste of a roster spot...

Yeah thats right. I said Hariston... There is a reason he wasn't a Star anywhere else in his career. Blame injuries all u want but he is not the solution and will Cool off...

This team desperatly needs a Right Handed Power Hitter...

Moose Milligan
04-23-2008, 09:09 PM
Arroyo looked awful last Friday when I saw him against the Brewers at my first Reds game. He was getting hit, and hit hard....

It's a shame, I don't think you could get much for him.

foxfire123
04-23-2008, 09:16 PM
Has Arroyo changed his style? Admittedly, I haven't watched all of his starts this year, but what I HAVE seen he's not doing the leg kick.

I say bench him-maybe if he realizes he's not irreplacable, he'll straighten himself out.

Moose Milligan
04-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Has Arroyo changed his style? Admittedly, I haven't watched all of his starts this year, but what I HAVE seen he's not doing the leg kick.

I say bench him-maybe if he realizes he's not irreplacable, he'll straighten himself out.

He was doing the leg kick from the windup this past Friday night.

You might not be seeing the leg kick cause he seems to be working from the stretch an awful lot this year ;)

redsfanfalcon
04-23-2008, 09:20 PM
This is probably a stretch, but what if he went into the bullpen? Think about it...having Cueto and Volquez with some major velocity, then putting in Arroyo with that roundhouse curve. I know that makes for a really expensive reliever, just a thought.

Larkinfan_11
04-23-2008, 09:21 PM
Arroyo is not a 2 that is the problem, anywhere else on a team that thinks they are a contender he is a 4. He came to the NL had a good first round through teams, but now unfortunatly people have his scouting report (Loves to throw offspeed.) I'm pretty sure there was one start this spring that he admitted to only throwing breaking pitches. As much as it hurts me to say it, and hopefully he proves me wrong, I don't see a turn around. Even though Jocketty stated today on 700 WLW that he expected to see him turn it around tonight. Lets just hope that Homer can pull it together and give us some quality innings here soon.

keeganbrick
04-23-2008, 09:37 PM
I am hoping Bronson can turn it around. You really cannot comapre him to Fogg cause Arroyo has pitched 200 Innings, and provided quality starts...

The worst thing about Fogg is that he took time away from someone who could be contributing... Guys like Fogg, Castro, Stanton, Merker, Patterson, Hariston, Coffey, Valentin, Beliese are all a waste of a roster spot...

Yeah thats right. I said Hariston... There is a reason he wasn't a Star anywhere else in his career. Blame injuries all u want but he is not the solution and will Cool off...

This team desperatly needs a Right Handed Power Hitter...

No one expects Hairston to be the RH power bat or a long term solution. He was batting over .400 in AAA and has continued that here and we needed a RH bat off the bench. He is not a waste of roster space right now. This team is not going to have great bench players so we must take what we can get. From the small sample size Ive seen, Hairston looks a lot better than Freel at the plate right now and he is getting on base. What has Kent Mercker done this year that is so terrible? Its not like we have 2-3 stud relievers just sitting in AAA ready to pitch at this level now. Bray...maybe but that is about it right now.

Red in Atl
04-23-2008, 10:14 PM
Arroyo is not a 2 that is the problem, anywhere else on a team that thinks they are a contender he is a 4.

Though I'd prefer he's our 5 guy by the ASB.

Harang
Cueto
Bailey
Volquez
Arroyo

bucknutdet
04-23-2008, 10:41 PM
Concerned??? If you're only concerned after the last year and a half ????? He has nothing. Unfortunately. His stuff is only slightly better than Belisle's. What are opposing hitters hitting against him this year .340?? Awful. Too bad seems to be a good personality to have on the staff.

REDblooded
04-23-2008, 10:46 PM
not a number 2? that's obvious, but that's not why he's struggling. Teams don't care if they're facing a number 2, or a number 5, as long as the pitcher is hittable

bucknutdet
04-23-2008, 10:54 PM
A lot of his offspeed/curves are simply grooved over the middle of the plate. Especially when he's down in the count.

Kingspoint
04-23-2008, 10:54 PM
Arroyo looked awful last Friday when I saw him against the Brewers at my first Reds game. He was getting hit, and hit hard....

It's a shame, I don't think you could get much for him. and that was his best outing of the year.

Cicero
04-23-2008, 10:55 PM
I think if he reworks his mechanics he gets better. Right now his confidence is shot so getting back to the basics might be the best medicine.

Larkinfan_11
04-23-2008, 10:56 PM
Thats correct but as a pitcher whether you think it or not you have a different mindset knowing your are the #5 or #2. A lot of the time #5 are out there to put in 5 solid innings of work, Reds want Arroyo to go 8 everytime as do most teams from their 2, as they should in an ideal world.

Jack Burton
04-23-2008, 11:40 PM
At least our rotation isn't Arroyo, Fogg, Belisle, Dumatrait, and Milton. Let's be thankful we at least have 3 quality big league starters and possibly a fourth on the horizon in Bailey.

What other teams would Arroyo be a 2 on? Not many.

Moose Milligan
04-23-2008, 11:52 PM
Do you guys think rookie Cueto holds up all season long? Or will he hit a wall?

HeatherC1212
04-24-2008, 12:18 AM
I am way worried about Bronson. He's just not been himself at all this year and I think he at least needs to be skipped in his next start if not DLed so he can figure out what's wrong. I don't want him costing us wins. If you take his runs out of the equation, we win this game tonight, 3-2 (possibly, depending on how the other guy pitched). I'm not sure what's going on but they need to get it figured out NOW. :eek:

Moose: I think Cueto will hold up as long as they watch his innings and pitch counts which they're doing very well right now.

bucknutdet
04-24-2008, 12:22 AM
He may be himself, but unfortunately "himself" ain't that good.

Moose Milligan
04-24-2008, 12:23 AM
Moose: I think Cueto will hold up as long as they watch his innings and pitch counts which they're doing very well right now.

This is good, seeing as Dusty Baker is the manager...

HeatherC1212
04-24-2008, 12:28 AM
This is good, seeing as Dusty Baker is the manager...

He's actually done a very nice job managing the starters so far this year. I think all that stuff about him abusing pitchers was way overblown. I'm happy he's watching out for the young guys and knowing when the pitcher needs to be taken out of the game. He's also done a pretty good job with the bullpen IMO.

AmarilloRed
04-24-2008, 01:15 AM
Ross said he seems to have lost velocity on his pitches; that doesn't sound good to me.

OesterPoster
04-24-2008, 08:38 AM
Dusty has done a fair job managing the pitch counts thus far. Better than other managers, I think. Last night, Cole Hamels had thrown 110 pitches after 7 innings. They sent him back out for the 8th and he promptly gave up a double to Ryan Braun, and then a 2 run dinger to Fielder.

...and thus screwing my fantasy team in the process. :)

OesterPoster
04-24-2008, 08:40 AM
Ross said he seems to have lost velocity on his pitches; that doesn't sound good to me.

I'd be shocked if he doesn't have something wrong with his labrum. The strange thing is we heard during spring training how he had regained some velocity on his fastball, and he looked uber-sharp in his last ST start.

Hondo
04-24-2008, 11:42 AM
I Think with Arroyo's history, we should give him atleast 10 starts before hollering for a Trade...

He isn't Josh Fogg... Although Fogg pitched 2 good Innings last night sitting down the heart of the Astros order (Tejada, Berkman, Lee) in order...

Maybe he will be a good 2 Inning relief guy... But DUSTY, Please No more than 2 Innings!

Handofdeath
04-24-2008, 06:33 PM
This may have been one of the main reasons why WK is no longer with the club. Arroyo did not deserve that high dollar contract after just one season with the Reds. You always wait until you get at least two good seasons out of a player before you give them that kind of money. Couple that with the fact he has all but said he would rather not be in Cincinnati and seems to love playing music just as much as playing baseball. Exceedingly stupid move by the Reds IMO.

CWRed
04-25-2008, 02:58 PM
Hitters have figured him out. Was happening last year. Should have traded him.

bgwilly31
04-25-2008, 04:46 PM
My biggest Concern with ARROYO now and is how can we move him? My time for being concerned about arroyos skills was last year.

Im asking here because im not that knowledgable in contracts and such.

But i heard on the radio, Bronsons salaries...

2008- 5mill
2009- 9mill
2010- 11mill!!

So with a guy this bad. And a pay schedule like that in a contract.

How do we move him?

Is the only way just cutting our losses?

Are we just royaly screwed?

Natty Redlocks
04-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Hitters have figured him out. Was happening last year. Should have traded him.

Actually not true. Just had a bad stretch. No need to panic.

Cicero
04-25-2008, 05:53 PM
My biggest Concern with ARROYO now and is how can we move him? My time for being concerned about arroyos skills was last year.

Im asking here because im not that knowledgable in contracts and such.

But i heard on the radio, Bronsons salaries...

2008- 5mill
2009- 9mill
2010- 11mill!!

So with a guy this bad. And a pay schedule like that in a contract.

How do we move him?

Is the only way just cutting our losses?

Are we just royaly screwed?

Wow. How reactionary can we get here? I think the time to think about "moving" Arroyo is still a ways off. A few bad starts can be as simple as mechanics or some sort of injury.

bgwilly31
04-25-2008, 06:10 PM
Wow. How reactionary can we get here? I think the time to think about "moving" Arroyo is still a ways off. A few bad starts can be as simple as mechanics or some sort of injury.

I think were beyond a few bad starts imo.

If you count in last year.

CWRed
04-25-2008, 09:03 PM
Actually not true. Just had a bad stretch. No need to panic.


Let's see a month from now. I hope you are right but I am not confident at all. Hitters have finally decided to lay off the curve that runs outside on righties and lefties are on him as usual.