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View Full Version : Jocketty's job in trouble?



dougdirt
04-23-2008, 09:56 PM
What happened to we aren't going to take losing anymore? I expect heads to roll.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2008, 09:57 PM
I think it's time to start a new regime

*BaseClogger*
04-23-2008, 10:04 PM
change the thread title to "Walt Watch" and he'll be gone in the next week or so... ;)

KronoRed
04-23-2008, 11:58 PM
What happened to we aren't going to take losing anymore? I expect heads to roll.

Darn right, he's had 12 hours to fix this...fire him NOW.

BCubb2003
04-24-2008, 12:13 AM
At this rate, by the end of the season a RedsZoner will be GM.

Spring~Fields
04-24-2008, 12:30 AM
12 hours is enough time to be proactive, to be solution oriented.

Jockerty has a problem with Arroyo and he already has had enough time and look at him.

So Jockerty should proactively move to find out what is really going on with Arroyo and to start some type of plan to correct his problems if they can be

For example:
Something is wrong with Arroyo. Time to send him for a MRI on the shoulder and elbow, time to find out if something is physically wrong or to find out if he needs a strengthening program or whatever.

Jockerty doesn’t need to wait until another and another start goes by with Arroyo showing ineffectiveness.

Let’s see if he will be on top of it.

mbgrayson
04-24-2008, 12:55 AM
I say every time they lose, fire someone, anyone. Let the sacrifices begin! There is simply no excuse for losing....

BCubb2003
04-24-2008, 12:57 AM
I'd like to see the stats for how teams performed in the game after a firing.

jojo
04-24-2008, 07:14 AM
Negative Neds....


The Reds scored the last two runs of the game.....there's improvement already.....

Spring~Fields
04-24-2008, 07:44 AM
Negative Neds....


The Reds scored the last two runs of the game.....there's improvement already.....

Nah, not us. :D

Ltlabner
04-24-2008, 07:52 AM
Negative Neds....


The Reds scored the last two runs of the game.....there's improvement already.....

Heck, they even scored the first run of the game.

In the first 3 innings no less.

Print the playoff tickets now!

mbgrayson
04-24-2008, 09:09 AM
Heck, they even scored the first run of the game.

In the first 3 innings no less.

Now if all those pesky middle innings didn't count.....

Spring~Fields
04-24-2008, 10:26 AM
Now if all those pesky middle innings didn't count.....

Now we have to look at the glass half full, don't be mentioning those middle innnings. :devil:

OldRightHander
04-24-2008, 10:51 AM
At this rate, by the end of the season a RedsZoner will be GM.

For the record, I don't want the job. There are some others on here who have the head to do it, but it's that whole dealing with people thing. I'm a darn good GM on computer games where I don't have to talk to real people.

Unassisted
04-24-2008, 03:16 PM
The Reds have now had two GMs in 2008 with losing records. Plus, the Reds have yet to win a game or a series under Jocketty. Maybe it's time for Castellini to fire himself? ;)

OnBaseMachine
04-24-2008, 03:18 PM
But Bob said the losing was going to stop!

dougdirt
04-24-2008, 03:19 PM
So if the Reds lose the next game both Krivsky and Jocketty will be 3 games under for the season. Seriously, heads will roll.

Strikes Out Looking
04-24-2008, 03:21 PM
The Reds have now had two GMs in 2008 with losing records. Plus, the Reds have yet to win a game or a series under Jocketty. Maybe it's time for Castellini to fire himself? ;)

What Castellini seems to be missing is that Krivsky was not responsible for the two holes in the offense that don't help in defense in the outfield. Yes, I've said it and I'll say it explicitly, I believe that Dunn and Griffey are the one of the main reasons the Reds are 9-14. If one of them were hot, they could have carried the team to at least .500. The ironic thing about both of them is that they were inherited by both Krivsky and Castellini (JimBo keeps on giving). I believe that until the situation with those two is worked out, this team will continue to play at the level they currently are at.

redsmetz
04-24-2008, 03:22 PM
I think the silliness of Bob C's comment is rather apparent now. I don't have much hope of things improving much anytime soon. I'm very close to my heart not being into this team anymore. That's not Wayne love, I'm just sick of the disfunction. Maybe I'll start rooting for the Rays.

Spring~Fields
04-24-2008, 03:37 PM
The Reds have now had two GMs in 2008 with losing records. Plus, the Reds have yet to win a game or a series under Jocketty. Maybe it's time for Castellini to fire himself? ;)

I think he should keep his day job, sticking to something that he has had some success with rutabaga, rhubarb and carrots, I am a bit tired of the way that he spends his cabbage.

A few more losses and he will have the bottom of the barrel covered.

KronoRed
04-24-2008, 05:31 PM
But Bob said the losing was going to stop!

Lies all of it lies, contract the Reds!

Aronchis
04-24-2008, 05:33 PM
I wonder what Bob would do if Jock told him the current design wasn't going to work and he was going to dump Dunn and Griff? My guess Bob may implode.

Spring~Fields
04-24-2008, 05:41 PM
I wonder what Bob would do if Jock told him the current design wasn't going to work and he was going to dump Dunn and Griff? My guess Bob may implode.

Jocketty is going to dump those contracts or let them run out at the end of the year so he won't have the financial contraints that the previous GM did. He will be able to provide a nice rationalization to cover that act, then he will have cash and players to trade and come off looking like a genius.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 02:08 AM
What happened to we aren't going to take losing anymore? I expect heads to roll.

:cool: I think that Bob is all bluster and bravado.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2008, 02:45 AM
0-3 since Bob declared the losing over.

Watch out popcorn vendors, you're next!

Wheelhouse
04-26-2008, 05:06 AM
A serious question is: is Dusty's job on trouble? If Jocketty asked Castellini to let him go, how could Bob say no? It is early in Dusty's tenure, but the fact is Dusty is NOT Jocketty's guy, and if Bob wants Jock to do his job, he has the right to have his own manager in there. This IMO could happen. Also, I feel strongly that Jock will replace both Dunn and Griffey.

Topcat
04-26-2008, 05:30 AM
Yet again I so fear the quick fix! No i do not disagree with trading players of promise as the Angels Have. I just Fear trades involving Bailey and Bruce. The rest thrash away mr mad man Jocketty. Screw the 600th Homerun BS and Damn the torpedoes I mean this Trade Dunn. He has a splendid inspiring ops but hell its time to get a guy who knocks them in. Adam has a great eye at the plate but I will take a guy with a lower ops and a higher rbi producer with runners in scoring position.

redsmetz
04-26-2008, 07:12 AM
It does seem to be reaching an absurd point - owner says "we're not going to lose anymore" and we haven't won since. We may not win another game all season now (tongue firmly in cheek).

GAC
04-26-2008, 08:03 AM
What Castellini seems to be missing is that Krivsky was not responsible for the two holes in the offense that don't help in defense in the outfield. Yes, I've said it and I'll say it explicitly, I believe that Dunn and Griffey are the one of the main reasons the Reds are 9-14. If one of them were hot, they could have carried the team to at least .500. The ironic thing about both of them is that they were inherited by both Krivsky and Castellini (JimBo keeps on giving). I believe that until the situation with those two is worked out, this team will continue to play at the level they currently are at.

I believe they both will be gone. Don't be surprised to see them trying to trade Dunn at the deadline. He's the kind of player that Jocketty will dangle to try and acquire some of his missing pieces.

jojo
04-26-2008, 08:20 AM
The Reds should trade Bruce for Raul Ibanez and play Ibanez in center field.

Might as well throw in Votto for Sexson to get their right-handed pop too.

Unassisted
04-26-2008, 03:20 PM
:cool: I think that Bob is all bluster and bravado.Bob shouldn't play that "winning" card if he doesn't mean it. http://www.b5media.com/forums/images/smilies/set1/hmmm.gif

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 04:01 PM
Bob shouldn't play that "winning" card if he doesn't mean it. http://www.b5media.com/forums/images/smilies/set1/hmmm.gif

He is insulting the good fans of RZ and other Reds fans.

Bob uses marketing puffery and doesn't realize that the rest of us have been through the school of Bowden, et al. We graduated from the school of hope deferred along with a promise of rainbows tomorrow long ago. Bob forgets that we are Reds fans, Bengals fans, Browns fans, UC and Ohio State fans, fans of other organizations and teams. We know what bad management walks, talks and looks like, bad planning and loosing. Even non-sports fans know what a bad product looks like.


Been there done that Bob. :cool:

mth123
04-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Not sure if its insincerity or just lack of know how. Jumping at names (Baker, Jocketty) may be more an indication that he lacks a depth of knowledge required to nab an up and comer than him trying to make a showy splash.

KronoRed
04-26-2008, 04:07 PM
A serious question is: is Dusty's job on trouble? If Jocketty asked Castellini to let him go, how could Bob say no? It is early in Dusty's tenure, but the fact is Dusty is NOT Jocketty's guy, and if Bob wants Jock to do his job, he has the right to have his own manager in there. This IMO could happen. Also, I feel strongly that Jock will replace both Dunn and Griffey.

Dusty is Bob's guy, if Walt is smart he'll let Dusty dig his own grave instead of trying to replace the owners choice.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 04:19 PM
Dusty is Bob's guy, if Walt is smart he'll let Dusty dig his own grave instead of trying to replace the owners choice.

Bingo.

Words of wisdom and insight.

Just what you said and imply about digging their own grave is what I perceive has been going on in the group of Castellini, Krivsky, Jocketty and Baker since before spring training and throughout the present season.

I don’t think that the group worked together or acted together in the best interest of the 2008 Reds team or the fans.

I think that each had their own agenda of letting the other guy "dig his own grave" and some of the remainder still do.

It is very difficult for me to believe that the four experts in the field of baseball, the four of them missed what is obvious to common fans.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 04:24 PM
Not sure if its insincerity or just lack of know how. Jumping at names (Baker, Jocketty) may be more an indication that he lacks a depth of knowledge required to nab an up and comer than him trying to make a showy splash.

Your correct, Castellini is not a baseball man, he is an investor and he knows something about marketing his product to generate revenues, that does not mean that he knows how to produce a quality baseball product. As far as I know he has always been a minority investor in baseball teams that others were in charge of running and producing a quality team product. Frankly the man should not be out in the public making speeches, he should have his PR department doing them.

smith288
04-26-2008, 05:27 PM
What's scary is that the whole FO is populated with old school thinking that values outdated philosophies.

-Jocketty left St Louis when they hired a numbers geek who reported directly to ownership because he does't quite get how that can fit into decisions

-Dusty hates OBP and tells them all to swing away or pitch until arms resemble beef jerky

-Bob seems to think Steinbrenner methods will work in Cincy.

Ugh. Im totally prepared for another 5-10 yrs of losing folks....

Aronchis
04-26-2008, 05:41 PM
I agree. Reds baseball just keeps on getting dimmer and dimmer. Little hope for the future, no hope for today.

BCubb2003
04-26-2008, 05:50 PM
I doubt that Castellini is thinking that if he talks a lot about winning, people won't see that the team is losing. He's approaching this like any other produce magnate who owns a baseball team who wants to win would. He goes after big-name management who have won before instead of Jerry Narron types. He's thinking that he didn't buy the Reds to go 9-12 and be in last place. That's not what he promised the fans and himself. He's not a SABR guy. Not too many owners are. But it will be interesting to see what happens if the Reds are under .500 at the All Star break, or at the end of the season, or a month into next season. Maybe we've finally got the owner we've always wanted. One who can't stand losing.

RFS62
04-26-2008, 05:58 PM
Maybe we've finally got the owner we've always wanted. One who can't stand losing.



Yeah, but that can be dangerous. It's one thing to not be able to stand losing. It's quite another to have a guy who doesn't know what he's doing making impetuous moves.

BCubb2003
04-26-2008, 06:24 PM
Yes, be careful what you wish for.

GAC
04-26-2008, 07:48 PM
Yeah, but that can be dangerous. It's one thing to not be able to stand losing. It's quite another to have a guy who doesn't know what he's doing making impetuous moves.

Bingo! When he took over this organization from Lindner (who was more businessman then anything), and seeing that Cast came from a succesful organization (Cards), my optimism was raised quite a bit.

I think a majority of us realized that this thing was not going to be turned around over night even when Cast took over. You lacked depth in the farm system, starting pitching, were burdened under some bad LTCs, and didn't really have the financial resources available to acquire those quality players to fill those needs. But with his "win now" mantra, and "I hate to lose speeches" I don't think Bob saw it.

I deeply appreciate the fact that we have a more "hands on" owner who hates to lose and wants to do something about it. It's the "doing something about it", and his impatience that is causing me to raise an eyebrow. Is he further frustrating the process?

The more I think on it..... we have two guys, in Cast and Krivsky, who came from succcessful franchises (Cards/Twins) who attained success by completely different philosophical approaches. Kriv was mentored under Ryan, while Cast was influenced by guys like Jocketty.

So maybe it was a "bad fit" with the pairing of these two in Cincy that was never meant to be and doomed for failure.

I can understand Bob's impatience because by nature I am an impatient man. It's not a virtue. I have been all my life. Whether it's a project at work or home I'm guilty of not always thinking things through, pre-planning as to what the best approach is prior to undertaking the task at hand because I'm always looking for that better way. I try to rush jobs, take short cuts, and when things start to go awry it only fuels that impatience within me, frustrates me..... and I sometimes set myself on fire. ;)

I hope Bob is not taking the same route. It can be quite painful.

I'm obviously behind Jocketty. It's not the hiring that bothers me.... it was the firing, and the way it was handled.

Krivksy was given 2+ years and abruptly canned. So be it. Lets move on. But Cast has been on that clock for 2 years too, and it's still ticking as far as I'm concerned. It's obvious he didn't have the right guy to fulfill his "win now" philosophy. Maybe he now does in Jocketty. But I just read an article/interview with Jocketty yesterday where he said it's gonna take time and patience to turn this thing around. So those same people who were very impatient with Krivsky during in his first year, and were criticizing him severely because they weren't seeing, getting the results they wanted, gonna do the same with Jocketty?

Jocketty does have one thing to his advantage though IMO.... he is not saddled under a bunch of bad LTCs that he can do very little with. The only one may be Arroyo (we'll see). But he could have far more financial resources at season's end if Jr and Dunn are allowed to walk, and other contracts are gone or possibly trade away during this season.

And he does have some talent on this team, and in the minors, to work with. It's going to be interesting.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 08:20 PM
:clap::clap:

edabbs44
04-27-2008, 12:07 PM
Yeah, but that can be dangerous. It's one thing to not be able to stand losing. It's quite another to have a guy who doesn't know what he's doing making impetuous moves.

If Bob was 100% for the now and not thinking about the future I think you would have seen one of the big prospects dealt this offseason. So with your point I have to disagree.

Now, if I'm WJ I would be telling him that this team is looking flat out insane in 2-3 years. So instead of pissing away money on FAs for the now like Cordero and Gonzo, let's draft like a big market team and deal some of the guys who won't be here at that point for young talents.

Harang/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey/Burton/Cordero (since he isn't getting dealt)

Phillips/Bruce/Edwin/Votto/Kepp (possibly)

Here is your core. Now go get some BP arms and a catcher, SS (if you think Kepp can't hack the position) and CFer. Deal any big league names not on this list.

Draft some close to the big leagues players. Forget HS catchers and project OFers. If a top tier guy drops in the draft due to bonus demands, then get him and give him what he wants.

Let the youngsters grow up together. Build a team rather than a collection of names. This team has a shot in a couple of years if Walt plays his cards right. I think Wayne had the same chance, but he either chose or was forced to try and get there quicker than possible. It was a mistake.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Lindner or Castellini...

I'll take my chances with the current.