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Benihana
04-25-2008, 02:34 PM
is a guy I'd really like to see the Reds pursue. Equipped with enormous power potential, he basically projects as a right-handed Adam Dunn. Interestingly, he is 22 years old, has mashed the ball since being drafted last year, and he is blocked in Milwaukee by Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, and Prince Fielder.

I know there are a lot of people who say big trades don't happen within the division, and a lot more that would say there's no way the Brewers give this guy up regardless of who is blocking him (a la Taylor Teagarden.)

However, I disagree with both of these assumptions. I think this is a guy we should be looking at, especially if Dunn's future with the club remains clouded. The problem is, what would Milwaukee want? They don't seem to have too many holes. If they lose Sheets to free agency, maybe they would be in the market for starting pitching? Maybe if Arroyo could string together some good starts, (and he has a long way to go before he does that,) a package of Bronson Arroyo and Juan Francisco could be a good start? Thoughts/suggestions?

edabbs44
04-25-2008, 02:34 PM
is a guy I'd really like to see the Reds pursue. Equipped with enormous power potential, he basically projects as a right-handed Adam Dunn, except he is 22 years old and blocked in Milwaukee by Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, and Prince Fielder.

I know there are a lot of people who say big trades don't happen within the division, and a lot more that would say there's no way the Brewers give this guy up regardless of who is blocking him (a la Taylor Teagarden.)

However, I disagree with both of these assumptions. I think this is a guy we should be looking at, especially if Dunn's future with the club remains clouded. The problem is, what would Milwaukee want? They don't seem to have too many holes. If they lose Sheets to free agency, maybe they would be in the market for starting pitching? Maybe if Arroyo could string together some good starts, (and he has a long way to go before he does that,) a package of Bronson Arroyo and Juan Francisco could be a good start? Thoughts/suggestions?

They ain't trading him, especially to Cincy.

Benihana
04-25-2008, 02:36 PM
They ain't trading him, especially to Cincy.

But what are they going to do? Fielder, Braun, and Hart figure to be locked into their positions for many years to come. Just as the Braves did with Saltalamacchia, I figure they have to give in at some point.

TOBTTReds
04-25-2008, 02:39 PM
But what are they going to do? Fielder, Braun, and Hart figure to be locked into their positions for many years to come. Just as the Braves did with Saltalamacchia, I figure they have to give in at some point.

I think they drafted him knowing they could trade him for anything they would want in 08 or 09. Drafting LaPorta was like a "wild card" in a card game. He is good for anything. If they need a starting catcher, they could trade him for a decent catcher (Teagarden type), if they need a starting pitcher, they could trade for a Homer Bailey type. If Prince, Hart, Braun, or Hall doesn't continue success, then they keep him. I think it will be a great pick, that I personally criticized when it happened.

Benihana
04-25-2008, 03:21 PM
I think they drafted him knowing they could trade him for anything they would want in 08 or 09. Drafting LaPorta was like a "wild card" in a card game. He is good for anything. If they need a starting catcher, they could trade him for a decent catcher (Teagarden type), if they need a starting pitcher, they could trade for a Homer Bailey type. If Prince, Hart, Braun, or Hall doesn't continue success, then they keep him. I think it will be a great pick, that I personally criticized when it happened.

Great, and I'd love to be the team that trades for him. If it cost Homer Bailey, it's something I'd at least have to consider.

bucksfan2
04-25-2008, 03:49 PM
But what are they going to do? Fielder, Braun, and Hart figure to be locked into their positions for many years to come. Just as the Braves did with Saltalamacchia, I figure they have to give in at some point.

I wouldn't assume that Hart is locked in for years to come. I have never thought Hart was anything more than an average at best RF. In reality if LaPorta is an Adam Dunn type right handed bat I would think they would move Hart in a heartbeat.

membengal
04-25-2008, 03:51 PM
They need pitching.

Highlifeman21
04-25-2008, 04:42 PM
They need pitching.

So send them Homer.

Toss in Stubbs for good measure.

edabbs44
04-25-2008, 04:49 PM
But what are they going to do? Fielder, Braun, and Hart figure to be locked into their positions for many years to come. Just as the Braves did with Saltalamacchia, I figure they have to give in at some point.

And this is why you cannot just flat-out draft the BPA every time with no regard to positions. It makes sense in many instances, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Obviously one of these guys can be traded, but since MIL is in a bit of a bind they might not get full value for them.

membengal
04-25-2008, 05:01 PM
So send them Homer.

Toss in Stubbs for good measure.

Yup. I'd try something like that, were I Jocketty. Worst they can do is say "no".

BuckeyeRedleg
04-25-2008, 05:02 PM
And this is why you cannot just flat-out draft the BPA every time with no regard to positions. It makes sense in many instances, but sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture.

Obviously one of these guys can be traded, but since MIL is in a bit of a bind they might not get full value for them.

Especially if it's a college bat.

flyer85
04-25-2008, 05:59 PM
I'd rather have Clement and make him the catcher ... he ought to be available since they are supposedly giving Johjima a 3 year extension. Offer 'em Jr and something else.

PuffyPig
04-25-2008, 06:26 PM
Yup. I'd try something like that, were I Jocketty. Worst they can do is say "no".

Actually, the worst they may do is say "yes".

Trading for a poor fielding LF with high upside starting pitching and CF prospects can backfire in a hurry.

If I'm trading Bailey, I want a SS or catcher in return.

membengal
04-25-2008, 06:28 PM
Difference of opinion there, puffy.

I like Bailey, but who knows what he will be. Same for Stubbs.

LaPorta feels to me like more a sure thing, at this point. But, really, there very few guarantees with this kind of prospect for prospect deal, should it come off. That's why I was so intrigued by Minny and Tampa's Garza for Young deal this past off-season...

PuffyPig
04-25-2008, 09:02 PM
Difference of opinion there, puffy.

I like Bailey, but who knows what he will be. Same for Stubbs.

LaPorta feels to me like more a sure thing, at this point. But, really, there very few guarantees with this kind of prospect for prospect deal, should it come off. That's why I was so intrigued by Minny and Tampa's Garza for Young deal this past off-season...

The Reds aren't going to improve trading two high upside "skill" prospects for one high upside non-skill propsect.

A great fielding CF with an .800 OPS is a regular for life.

A .800 OPS poor fielding LF is a part time player.

Highlifeman21
04-25-2008, 09:09 PM
The Reds aren't going to improve trading two high upside "skill" prospects for one high upside non-skill propsect.

A great fielding CF with an .800 OPS is a regular for life.

A .800 OPS poor fielding LF is a part time player.

When did Drew Stubbs OPS .800 for the Reds @ the MLB level?

Gainesville Red
04-25-2008, 09:45 PM
LaPorta can rake. I promise.

In the field, well, that may be another story.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-25-2008, 10:00 PM
This is why I want them to take the top college bat available (Smoak) with pick #7 this June.

PuffyPig
04-25-2008, 10:35 PM
When did Drew Stubbs OPS .800 for the Reds @ the MLB level?


When did I say he did? Who said I was talking about Stubbs.

I'm just saying that trading high upside skill guys to fill the LF position with a great prospect dosn't make alot of sense. LF guys are too easy to find.

Highlifeman21
04-25-2008, 10:49 PM
When did I say he did? Who said I was talking about Stubbs.

I'm just saying that trading high upside skill guys to fill the LF position with a great prospect dosn't make alot of sense. LF guys are too easy to find.

So who's the great fielding CF who OPS's .800 regularly?

Plus, we have a 1B that's playing LF for us now, so LaPorta only becomes useful once we either move Dunn to 1B, or get rid of Dunn.

PuffyPig
04-25-2008, 10:59 PM
So who's the great fielding CF who OPS's .800 regularly?





:bang::bang::bang::bang:

Highlifeman21
04-25-2008, 11:53 PM
:bang::bang::bang::bang:

Ok, that wasn't a name....

Patterson? Freel? Hopper? Dickerson? Stubbs?

Those seem to be the only CF options I see in the Reds organization right now.

PuffyPig
04-26-2008, 12:12 AM
:bang::bang:
Ok, that wasn't a name....

Patterson? Freel? Hopper? Dickerson? Stubbs?

Those seem to be the only CF options I see in the Reds organization right now.

:bang::bang::bang::bang:

Highlifeman21
04-26-2008, 12:21 PM
:bang::bang:

:bang::bang::bang::bang:

I'm asking you to clarify your position so I can comprehend it better, yet all you do is the bang head emoticon?

What am I missing?

PuffyPig
04-26-2008, 02:43 PM
I'm asking you to clarify your position so I can comprehend it better, yet all you do is the bang head emoticon?

What am I missing?

If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand.

Highlifeman21
04-26-2008, 02:59 PM
If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand.

Great discussion.

Way to contribute.

PuffyPig
04-26-2008, 03:45 PM
Great discussion.

Way to contribute.


One last time.

Please review my posts.

I'm saying that left fielders ahould not be overvalued.

A LF who OPS's .800 is likely a part time player, while a CF (with good fielding ability)who OPS's .800 is consideed very good. This is meant as a generic statement, not specific to any player.

So,don't trade two high upside prospects who play skill positions (SS and P) for a high upside LF who can't field.

LF's are just too easy to find.

Highlifeman21
04-26-2008, 04:51 PM
One last time.

Please review my posts.

I'm saying that left fielders ahould not be overvalued.

A LF who OPS's .800 is likely a part time player, while a CF (with good fielding ability)who OPS's .800 is consideed very good. This is meant as a generic statement, not specific to any player.

So,don't trade two high upside prospects who play skill positions (SS and P) for a high upside LF who can't field.

LF's are just too easy to find.

I wasn't trading a SS and P, I was trading a OF and a P for LaPorta.

I think LaPorta will rake. The Reds need more guys that can rake.

PuffyPig
04-26-2008, 06:15 PM
I wasn't trading a SS and P, I was trading a OF and a P for LaPorta.

I think LaPorta will rake. The Reds need more guys that can rake.

Sorry, I miss typed.CF and a P.

A CF is not a LF. Big difference.

Don't trade skill postions for non-skill postions,unlesstheupgrade is huge.

It's what sold be on the Hamilton trade. The realization Hamilton wasn't going to play an above average CF.

Highlifeman21
04-26-2008, 07:28 PM
Sorry, I miss typed.CF and a P.

A CF is not a LF. Big difference.

Don't trade skill postions for non-skill postions,unlesstheupgrade is huge.

It's what sold be on the Hamilton trade. The realization Hamilton wasn't going to play an above average CF.

We have a guy who can play Stubbsian quality CF right now in Patterson. Giving Stubbs the benefit of the doubt, they will most likely put up similar MLB offensive numbers.

Given that we already have a quality defensive CF who won't produce much offensively, Stubbs is redundant, and therefore expendible. Stubbs alone won't get us LaPorta, so why not dangle Bailey as well? I wouldn't suggest Stubbs and Bailey for only LaPorta, I'd think we'd easily get LaPorta plus more.

We need pitching and offense. Why not gain some offense that can help us now, while trying to obtain some pitching that will help us in the future?

PuffyPig
04-26-2008, 11:53 PM
Given that we already have a quality defensive CF who won't produce much offensively, Stubbs is redundant, and therefore expendible. Stubbs alone won't get us LaPorta, so why not dangle Bailey as well?

We need pitching and offense.


Firstly, Patterson is a FA after this season, unlikely he will be resigned.

Secondly,as you say,we need pitching. You don't trade a 21 year old Top 10prospect pitching well in AAA with #1 starter potential for a poor fiedling LF prospect, however hearalded.

Red Heeler
04-27-2008, 12:27 AM
Firstly, Patterson is a FA after this season, unlikely he will be resigned.

Secondly,as you say,we need pitching. You don't trade a 21 year old Top 10prospect pitching well in AAA with #1 starter potential for a poor fiedling LF prospect, however hearalded.

What if LaPorta hits and fields like Manny Ramirez?

dougdirt
04-27-2008, 12:59 AM
What if LaPorta hits and fields like Manny Ramirez?

Banking on that isn't a good bet. The guys that hit like Manny Ramirez are few and far between and I don't just mean in baseball now, I mean ever.

PuffyPig
04-27-2008, 10:11 AM
What if LaPorta hits and fields like Manny Ramirez?

And what if he doesn't?

Red Heeler
04-27-2008, 02:48 PM
And what if he doesn't?

And what if Bailey never learns control, and Stubbs never learns to make contact?

I was simply using Manny as the ultimate example of an all stick/no glove left fielder. If the left fielder is enough of an offensive beast, then he is worth trading "skill" position players for, especially ones with warts like Bailey and Stubbs.

dougdirt
04-27-2008, 02:51 PM
And what if Bailey never learns control, and Stubbs never learns to make contact?

I was simply using Manny as the ultimate example of an all stick/no glove left fielder. If the left fielder is enough of an offensive beast, then he is worth trading "skill" position players for, especially ones with warts like Bailey and Stubbs.

Warts that they are showing they are overcoming at this point. I just can't see trading the 2004 #7 overall pick and the 2006 #8 overall pick for the 2007 #7 overall pick. Just doesn't make an ounce of sense when both of our guys are performing very well.

Benihana
04-27-2008, 05:34 PM
IF Dunn isn't going to be re-signed, then I would consider trading Bailey straight up for LaPorta. Bailey and Stubbs is too much, and I'd rather hang onto Stubbs if you're going to have a butcher like LaPorta in the OF.

I would then look to trade Dunn for young pitching. In essence, a Dunn-for-LaPorta swap, but only if Dunn demands more than $60 MM.

flyer85
04-27-2008, 05:39 PM
dunn may be traded but he isn't gonna bring much. A we have seen the last few years teams are only trading marginal prospects for rent-a-players.

Benihana
04-27-2008, 06:45 PM
dunn may be traded but he isn't gonna bring much. A we have seen the last few years teams are only trading marginal prospects for rent-a-players.

Not so sure that's true. The Royals got Teahen and others for Beltran. The Brewers got Cordero and Mench for Carlos Lee. Of course going back farther, there were deals like the Bartolo Colon caper that brought Sizemore, Lee, and Philllips to Cleveland. Regardless, if they couldn't get more than marginal prospects for Dunn, I'd rather keep him and take the picks when he walks.

Red Heeler
04-28-2008, 12:27 AM
Warts that they are showing they are overcoming at this point. I just can't see trading the 2004 #7 overall pick and the 2006 #8 overall pick for the 2007 #7 overall pick. Just doesn't make an ounce of sense when both of our guys are performing very well.

Doug,
I am really talking more conceptually. A potential beast LF is worth good "skill" prospects. I actually agree with you if we are talking about LaPorta. He's simply not played enough at a high enough level to warrant giving up Stubbs and Bailey. Next year, if LaPorta continues to OPS north of 1.000 while moving through Huntsville and Nashville, then I jump at the chance of getting him for two players at Bailey's and Stubb's level right now.

PuffyPig
04-28-2008, 10:21 AM
Doug,
I am really talking more conceptually. A potential beast LF is worth good "skill" prospects. .

But we aren't talking about "good skill prospects".

We are talking about "potential beast skill propspects".

If Bailey fulfils his promise he is worth quite a bit more than the LF even if he fulfils his promise.