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savafan
04-25-2008, 07:05 PM
Say a person lives in Kentucky and works in Ohio, or travels back and forth, and the person who is doing the harassing, menacing, stalking part lives in Ohio. Would someone have to file charges in both states to get a restraining order in each state against the perpetrator?

Degenerate39
04-25-2008, 07:06 PM
Not sure but I thought a restraining order would work in both states.

GoReds33
04-25-2008, 10:04 PM
Womenslaws.org:

If you are moving out of state or are going to be out of the state for any reason, your CPO may still be enforceable.

Yachtzee
04-25-2008, 10:30 PM
Look up "full faith and credit" and "protection order." (not legal advice. information only. don't even think this creates atty-client relationship.) :)

Reds4Life
04-25-2008, 10:42 PM
Restraining orders are nice, but in the real world they are nothing but a piece of paper. That isn't going to do you much good if you are in a real confrontation with this person. I would suggest other (legal) means to protect yourself if necessary. Concealed weapons permits are issued in Ohio and Kentucky, you could get info about the application process in your state of residence.

Raisor
04-25-2008, 10:54 PM
Restraining orders are nice, but in the real world they are nothing but a piece of paper. That isn't going to do you much good if you are in a real confrontation with this person. I would suggest other (legal) means to protect yourself if necessary. Concealed weapons permits are issued in Ohio and Kentucky, you could get info about the application process in your state of residence.

There's always the ED-209

http://www.deadprogrammer.com/photos/ed-209.jpg

Gainesville Red
04-25-2008, 10:58 PM
One of my buddys was screwing around with some pepper spray once, and I got just a little of it in my face on accident, and don't recommend it. I can only imagine getting a whole cannister unloaded on someone.

I'd think it would be a pretty good deterent.

Highlifeman21
04-26-2008, 12:10 AM
Say a person lives in Kentucky and works in Ohio, or travels back and forth, and the person who is doing the harassing, menacing, stalking part lives in Ohio. Would someone have to file charges in both states to get a restraining order in each state against the perpetrator?

I would try to work it out with Krono first.

But if you feel the need to take out the restraining order on him, then more power to ya!

WMR
04-26-2008, 12:24 AM
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g280/rowdyrick/Rex_Kwon_Do.jpg

I recommend enrolling immediately.

Puffy
04-26-2008, 11:49 AM
Say a person lives in Kentucky and works in Ohio, or travels back and forth, and the person who is doing the harassing, menacing, stalking part lives in Ohio. Would someone have to file charges in both states to get a restraining order in each state against the perpetrator?

Restraining orders work in any state. The person should get one where they live because there is a personal jurisdiction question. Just make sure they put their home and work address as places where not to go near and then both will be "protected"

And restraining orders are much more effective now then 10 years ago. Cell phones. You can call the police from anywhere while finding safe shelter and avoiding contact. They are no where near perfect, but still viable.

Ravenlord
04-27-2008, 07:42 AM
1. pepper spray won't deture a person like this.

2. a person like this would likely qualify as sociopathic, and very likely, psychopathic.

3. Chief Wiggum's allegory applies:
a). the Law has now power to protect you.
b). the Law does have the power to persecute you.

4. at least he believes in nothing.

5. this should be solved relatively painless for you, despite me drawing Tyr.

TeamSelig
04-27-2008, 09:04 PM
1. pepper spray won't deture a person like this.



I am pretty sure peppy spray will put someone down regardless of how tough and/or crazy they are.

Reds Nd2
04-28-2008, 12:30 AM
Concealed weapons permits are issued in Ohio and Kentucky, you could get info about the application process in your state of residence.

Both states also have a Reciprocity Agreement. Which means that if you have a valid CHP from one state, you can legally carry concealed in the other state. As always, when visiting another state, call before you carry.

Forms available online and further information are found at the links below.

Ohio

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention/concealcarry/index.asp

Kentucky

Crickets chirping. (http://www.naturesongs.com/insects.html)

I'm not about to slam a state that has a reciprocal concealed carry agreement with my home state of Virginia, but they could be a bit more progressive with the application process for the residents of their own state. Apparently, the application isn't available online and has to be filled out, in person, at the sherrifs office in his or hers county of residence. Info available at the link below.

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm#faq

Reds Nd2
04-28-2008, 12:46 AM
I am pretty sure peppy spray will put someone down regardless of how tough and/or crazy they are.

The laws concerning Oleoresin Capsicum (pepper spray) vary from state to state. So buyer beware.

It's also limited in range to anywhere between six and twenty feet,depending on the canister size. That might work for crowd control, but it's a little too close for my comfort when the tough/crazy people are at the door. That being said, it is better than chucking rocks at an agressor.

George Foster
04-28-2008, 01:25 AM
does this have anything to do with your ex-girlfriend, or her new boyfriend?

Because if your child is envolved, it can be even more complicated?

Ravenlord
04-28-2008, 03:07 AM
I am pretty sure peppy spray will put someone down regardless of how tough and/or crazy they are.

i've used two brands of pepper spray on myself just for the experience, even the one meant to stave off bear attack had little more affect than me rubbing my eyes after petting my cats.

TeamSelig
04-28-2008, 11:28 AM
I am talking real pepper spray

TeamSelig
04-28-2008, 11:29 AM
The laws concerning Oleoresin Capsicum (pepper spray) vary from state to state. So buyer beware.

It's also limited in range to anywhere between six and twenty feet,depending on the canister size. That might work for crowd control, but it's a little too close for my comfort when the tough/crazy people are at the door. That being said, it is better than chucking rocks at an agressor.

Right, wasn't thinking about the legal carrying of the spray.

Reds4Life
04-28-2008, 01:11 PM
I am talking real pepper spray

I have "real" pepper spray, same as issued to the Secret Service and Ohio Highway Patrol, it won't do you any good if there is an armed confrontation. There are people sprayed every single day that continue to fight after, and the risk for cross contanimation is very high. You might get them, but chances are you are going to get yourself to.

It's better than nothing, but it's not a great form of self defense.

TeamSelig
04-28-2008, 02:50 PM
It's enough to allow you to run away.

Ltlabner
04-28-2008, 05:11 PM
It's enough to allow you to run away.

About 60% of confrontations involve 2 or more bad-guys. You may (and it's highly unlikely) be able to disable one assailent with OC Spray, however, it's almost impossible to incapacitate multiple assailets. You empty your little canister on one lady only to find out her partner was sneaking up behind you. Then what?

The vast majority of violent crimes occur at close range, often very close range. Unless you are practiced at employing the spray canister you'll never employ it fast enough to do anygood. The other person will be on top of you and you'll you get contaminated as Reds4life pointed out.

Most people buy a canister, hook it on their key ring and never even practice using it. When the defication hits the ventilation those people are dead meat. It's been shown time and again that under stress people will freeze without training and a prior plan as what to do. You can think, "we'll I'll just go all ninja if someone wips out a knife on me". WRONG. The time to react is much longer than the time to act.

The likelyhood of being shot (or shot at) increases greatly if you try to run from a bad-guy who is meaning you harm. The last (and I mean last) thing you want to do with a person who means you ill-will is to turn your back on them. Simply a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. Unless you are an olympic class sprinter, you know for sure there is only one baddie or there's a store you can duck into within a pace or two attempting to run away is a horrable idea.

Johnny Footstool
04-28-2008, 05:29 PM
The likelyhood of being shot (or shot at) increases greatly if you try to run from a bad-guy who is meaning you harm. The last (and I mean last) thing you want to do with a person who means you ill-will is to turn your back on them. Simply a bad, bad, bad, bad idea. Unless you are an olympic class sprinter, you know for sure there is only one baddie or there's a store you can duck into within a pace or two attempting to run away is a horrable idea.

Aside from making yourself a moving target as opposed to a standing target, running away gives you more time to think. You can make grab your cell phone, or start yelling for help, or duck into a safe place.

Ltlabner
04-28-2008, 05:51 PM
Aside from making yourself a moving target as opposed to a standing target, running away gives you more time to think. You can make grab your cell phone, or start yelling for help, or duck into a safe place.

Keep in mind the criminal is likely to be facing you and within a close distance. You have to spin around and then start running. A weapon can be drawn and used in under 5 seconds by someone who isn't trained (and likely much less). How far can you spin and run from a dead stop in under 5 seconds? And under stress most people will run straight line, not zig zag. It's just instinctual.

Also he/she bad person mearly has to start running towards you the second you start to spin around to attempt to run. They now have a very good chance of grabbing you and throwing you to the ground. Then you are really in a big heap of doo.

If there's only one criminal and they are standing there holding their head in their hands after you spray them by all means get out of dodge. Run like hell, scream bloody murder and get as much distance between you and them as possible.

But that assumes that somehow you dug your pepper spray out of your purse/pocket, it didn't get hung up on your keys or fly out of your nervous hands, you were able to flip the lid and spray it AND hit the person in the eyes before the other guy moves, ducks or just grabs you. Since most criminals pray on people not paying attention (so they can be taken by suprise) the likely hood of this happening is remote. Not to mention they may very well have a partner down the street that you are running towards...now what? Now you are winded and that person is likely to take you totally by suprise as you are mentally focused on "oh my god, I have to run away...this is horrable....holy crap....". Again, you're really hosed now.

There's a bazillion ways and locations a crime can unfold so maybe attempting to run away would be your best option. But those cases are few and far between and the chances of that working diminish in direct proportion to (1) how close ye old baddie is to you (2) how many bad folks are out to do you harm.

Most people live under the illusion that they will magically spring into action if suddenly confronted with a serrious situation. I'll run away...or I'll poke them in the eye....or I'll do that ultra cool wrestling move I did 20 years ago. That illusion is simply and plainly false baring having a plan of how you'll react before hand and practicing many, many times so you can simply act instead of stopping to think.

TeamSelig
04-28-2008, 06:25 PM
Moving targets are harder to hit than you think. Plus, what do you think you should do? Stay there and get shot?

As far as multiple bad guys, if they are near each other you can get two birds with one stone. Either way, I think pepper spray is better than a piece of paper telling the bad guy to leave ;) I think the best option is to just be with friends when you go out and be alert to your surroundings. If you are familiar with handling and shooting guns, I'd get a permit and carry. If not, go with the spray and hope it works. Or carry a machete. Who messes with a guy who has a machete?

savafan
04-28-2008, 07:20 PM
does this have anything to do with your ex-girlfriend, or her new boyfriend?

Because if your child is envolved, it can be even more complicated?

Yes

Ltlabner
04-28-2008, 08:15 PM
Moving targets are harder to hit than you think. Plus, what do you think you should do? Stay there and get shot?

Not really. Especially ones that are only a few feet away and running in a straight line. Besides which, I don't like the odds of evading a spray of bullets which is definatley what you'll get from your typical street thug.

Too many variables to just say "do this and you'll be fine" but there are a few different approches you can take that will minimize (not eliminate) the odds of being serriously injured.


As far as multiple bad guys, if they are near each other you can get two birds with one stone. Either way, I think pepper spray is better than a piece of paper telling the bad guy to leave ;) I think the best option is to just be with friends when you go out and be alert to your surroundings. If you are familiar with handling and shooting guns, I'd get a permit and carry. If not, go with the spray and hope it works. Or carry a machete. Who messes with a guy who has a machete?

Problem is street thugs don't always just stand right next to each other so you are very unlikely to hit them with your one spray. Besides as you start to move they are likely to rush you. You'll be on the ground before you get your arm raised, let alone spraying multiple targets in multiple directions with a spray of chemical that is highly innacurate.

You are far more likely to be able to spray the stalker with pepper spray, especially if they aren't really wanting to harm you and just can't "let go". Don't threaten to use the PS, just do it. Use the element of suprise to your advantage. Such a move might pursude them to bugger off. If they are a "classic" stalker intent on never letting you go/doing you harm I wouldn't even mess with the pepper spray and use something with a little more umph should your life be in jepordy.

If you go the spray route buy 10 or so pepper sprays and practice outside until you get the hang of what the spray does, how far it goes, how long it lasts, how the wind effects it, etc. Make sure you have some within reach at all times.

As far as the stalker goes you're on the right track. Be with friends. Be in public. Be in places with lots of witnesses. Pay attention as you walk around and avoid secluded areas. Don't take the same route to work everyday. Don't leave/go to work at the same time every day. Have someone escort you to your car. You don't have to act as if you are "under siege" but at the same time exercise some common sense. The best coruse of action is to avoid the problem in the first place. Keep a log of his or her attempts to reach you and keep the police in the loop.

The firearms route is a very personal choice. If you get one get real training in how to use it. If you need suggestions on reputable firearms instruction PM me. DON'T just buy a gun and throw it in the nightstand. That's next to useless. Once you are trained practice with it.

Whether you get a firearm or not, take some self defence classes. Just my opinion, but I think such classes are valuable to everybody regardless if they have a stalker or not.

WMR
04-28-2008, 08:29 PM
Here's my pepper spray:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2936/glock45withmagloaderse6.jpg

Reds Nd2
04-28-2008, 08:41 PM
Sweet WMR.

Here's my prefered OC spray, sans rubber grips.

http://www.antiquepercussionandflintlockpistols.com/phdi/p1.nsf/imgpages/2173_ASIDSCF2237.jpg/$file/ASIDSCF2237.jpg

WMR
04-28-2008, 08:43 PM
Nice. Best pistols in the world, as far as I'm concerned.

Reds4Life
04-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Nice 21 Willy. I carry the Glock 30. Glocks might not be the prettiest guns in the world, but they go bang each and every time.

TeamSelig
04-28-2008, 11:31 PM
Never shot a Glock, but I hear good things. This is my criminal repellant:

http://www.colemantyler.com/prodimages/rugerkp95pr15sm.jpg

Reds Nd2
04-29-2008, 12:15 AM
Ugh! I absolutely hate Ruger semi-autos for personal protection. Love their single action pistols though.

George Foster
04-29-2008, 12:53 AM
Yes

I hope you did or in the process of getting legal visitation rights like I suggested in your origional thread about becoming a father. As I mentioned in my post, things tend to go south in a hurry, and you have to get legal visitation.

Ltlabner
04-29-2008, 01:44 PM
Never shot a Glock, but I hear good things. This is my criminal repellant:

http://www.colemantyler.com/prodimages/rugerkp95pr15sm.jpg

Uggh.

In that case, stick with the pepper-spray.

Chip R
04-29-2008, 01:53 PM
Restraining orders work in any state. The person should get one where they live because there is a personal jurisdiction question. Just make sure they put their home and work address as places where not to go near and then both will be "protected"

And restraining orders are much more effective now then 10 years ago. Cell phones. You can call the police from anywhere while finding safe shelter and avoiding contact. They are no where near perfect, but still viable.


Listen to Puffy. If anyone knows about restraining orders, it's him. Because he's a lawyer and not for any other reason.

919191
04-29-2008, 02:00 PM
Jim Coombs needs no pepper spray or handguns. Here is his criminal deterrent.

http://thirdroar.com/paintings/2003-04-Fist/FIST-websmall.jpg

TeamSelig
04-29-2008, 03:36 PM
Whats wrong with a Ruger?

Ltlabner
04-29-2008, 06:25 PM
Whats wrong with a Ruger?

Other than being ugly, huge, less than steller accuracy and of questionable quality they are fine pistols.

Serriously, however, they just aren't my cup of tea.

Ruger automatics aren't the worst pistol in the world, however, I wouldn't include them in the middle to upper tier either. Somewhere around Bersas and Tarus IMO.

YMMV

Reds4Life
04-29-2008, 06:53 PM
Uggh.

In that case, stick with the pepper-spray.

:laugh:

The do make good semi auto .22's though, I love my mark III.

WMR
04-29-2008, 06:59 PM
I love my Beretta 9 stainless.

TeamSelig
04-29-2008, 07:18 PM
Ahh I think they look cool. I like my gun, but it was a present and I really haven't shot any other brand.

My main problem with it is that there is no safety. It was previously owned by a police officer and I'm not sure is why or if that specific model just doesn't have it. Makes me feel nervous w/o a safety.

Ltlabner
04-30-2008, 09:21 AM
My main problem with it is that there is no safety. Makes me feel nervous w/o a safety.

So when you press the decocker, the hammer falls and the decock lever springs back up? Sometimes the decocker is designed to stay down for safe and manually pressed back up for fire. Most times, however, decock models of most guns automatically spring back up when they are depressed so they are as you describe. While there is no true saftey lever, the process of decocking the weapon means it will not fire when dropped and as long as you do not press the trigger the weapon will not discharge.

No reason to be nervous w/o a true safety lever. Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch and all will be well. A good test is to load the weapon with snap caps or dummy rounds, decock the hammer and then carry the weapon for a week. See how many times the trigger is magically pulled and the gun just "goes off". Of corse it helps to do this all day, every day. Just be sure you are legal to carry should you leave your home, of corse.

I prefer the Glock as it's safeties are all internal. This provides a safe weapon yet is very simple to use with no extra switches to consider when presenting the weapon.

Team Clark
04-30-2008, 10:10 AM
Make sure you keep a copy of the Protection Order WITH YOU at all times. If by chance you get a clerk who is not exactly on the rest of the world's time frame, you may end up in a bad spot. Especially since you are covering two states.

Pepper spray is very effective. There are only a very small percentage of people who are not affected by the spray. You can go to Roy Tailor Uniforms near downtown and pick up Pepper Spray in many different types of containers. I can also suggest galls.com

If by any chance that you feel this person may be stalking your home, PLEASE call your local Police Department, ask to speak to the duty Sergeant and tell them what is going on. He/she will not only be able to have your street patrolled more frequently they will also be able to put the word out for every shift.

Team Clark
04-30-2008, 10:14 AM
I prefer the Glock as it's safeties are all internal. This provides a safe weapon yet is very simple to use with no extra switches to consider when presenting the weapon.

I have a very nice Glock 19. New Marine Firng Cups installed and I got rid of that silly serrated trigger. Shoots like a dream, easy to clean and accurate as all get out. I also have two new Smith & Wesson M&P models. I have the .40 regular size and an awesome .9mm compact. So smooth. Fits in my hand like a glove.

SunDeck
04-30-2008, 10:49 AM
Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch and all will be well.

I don't know nothin' about guns or restraining orders, but that there sounds like something to live by, generally.

Reds Nd2
05-01-2008, 11:45 PM
Whats wrong with a Ruger?

Your P95 may be different; but my P89, that I bought brand new, had the annoying habit of the slide not staying in the locked backed position after the last round was fired. Even the slightest vibration would release the slide. I checked out two more brand new P89's at the gun store and they too had the same problem. That's just not something I can put up with in a defense first handgun.

Ltlabner covered my other gripes pretty well though. Those things are huge! Unless your wearing a large winter coat, those things are going to imprint your clothes if you try carrying concealed. In that case, your probably better off with something smaller stuck inside your coat pocket. I don't have small hands by any means, but the thing just felt too large for my tastes as well. It just didn't feel comfortable in my hands. Accuracy was also a concern. Not that I expected to enter ISPC events with it, but still, at 25 feet I'd like to have consistent five inch groups. And well, their just plain ugly. Especially with the polymer frames. There heavey too. A P89 with eleven rounds checks in about 30 oz. compared to a G22 with sixteen rounds of .40 caliber Federal Hydra-Shocks at about 32 oz.


Ahh I think they look cool. I like my gun, but it was a present and I really haven't shot any other brand.

My main problem with it is that there is no safety. It was previously owned by a police officer and I'm not sure is why or if that specific model just doesn't have it. Makes me feel nervous w/o a safety.

Do yourself a favor and head down to your nearest Glock dealer. If they have a range, chances are they'll let you shoot some of the different model Glocks for free, plus the cost of the ammo and targets.

Actually, I had the same concerns as you regarding the safety when I first bought my Decock-only P89. The thing is though, it's actually safer because you don't have to lower the hammer on a live round manually. The decock lever does it for you. Of course it's ready to fire when the trigger's pulled, but it's no less safe than carrying a double action revolver with the hammer on a live round. Just keep your finger off the trigger untill your ready to shoot.

Reds Nd2
05-01-2008, 11:46 PM
:laugh:

The do make good semi auto .22's though, I love my mark III.

I've had one on my wish list for awhile.

Reds Nd2
05-01-2008, 11:52 PM
I have a very nice Glock 19. New Marine Firng Cups installed and I got rid of that silly serrated trigger. Shoots like a dream, easy to clean and accurate as all get out. I also have two new Smith & Wesson M&P models. I have the .40 regular size and an awesome .9mm compact. So smooth. Fits in my hand like a glove.

I love my G19 too. Just curious TCII, but why did you install the maritime cups?

Ravenlord
05-02-2008, 01:45 AM
beware this Saturday, and Cinco de Mayo proper. Bastard is likely to try something then given that most people will be incoherently drunk.

as far as handguns, the only thing in my life i absolutely regret is selling my Colt 45...wish it was a 9 or 12 mag, but 7 was more than adequte. it's just like holding a Viking sword...perfect balance, near perfect weapon.

Team Clark
05-02-2008, 11:29 AM
I love my G19 too. Just curious TCII, but why did you install the maritime cups?

Smoother trigger pull. I can actually feel the difference.