M's extending Johjima... Jeff Clement anyone?

[HumnHilghtFreel]

http://www.bleedingblueandteal.com/?p=745


Mariners Extend Johjima

by Jon Shields ~ April 25th, 2008

In a surprise move, the Seattle Mariners extended Kenji Johjima for three more seasons, putting him under contract through age 35.

This move absolutely makes zero sense considering the minor league depth Seattle has at catcher. Jeff Clement, Adam Moore and Rob Johnson are all waiting in the wings. What does this mean for Clement? We had just heard that his defense was improving by leaps and bounds and he’s the offensive player Seattle has needed for a long time. Will he finally be forced to abandon catching duties? KOMO’s Shannon Drayer told us over the offseason that Clement was completely opposed to a position switch, so I can only assume that this won’t make him very happy.

Could Jeff Clement be a target for the Reds to go after? What do you think it would take to get him?

[jojo]

Nothing. He's not available.

[IslandRed]

Nothing. He's not available.

Why not? Even Bavasi wouldn't hand out a three-year extension to Johjima if he viewed Clement as the near-term catching solution. Seems like Clement would offer more value to the Mariners as a premium trading chip to a team that wanted him to catch, rather than as a part-time player or a non-catcher.

Disclaimer: I'm assuming Johjima is being paid starter's money, but I haven't read anything beyond what's posted in the thread. If he's getting an extension but at who-cares-if-he's-just-a-backup money, that's different.

[jojo]

Why not? Even Bavasi wouldn't hand out a three-year extension to Johjima if he viewed Clement as the near-term catching solution. Seems like Clement would offer more value to the Mariners as a premium trading chip to a team that wanted him to catch, rather than as a part-time player or a non-catcher.

Disclaimer: I'm assuming Johjima is being paid starter's money, but I haven't read anything beyond what's posted in the thread. If he's getting an extension but at who-cares-if-he's-just-a-backup money, that's different.

He's neither a near term nor long term solution as a catcher in their view. He's their coveted lefty-pop for either first base or DH-BOTH areas of need this season and beyond.

In short, the Ms covet his bat especially given his handedness and their park.

[IslandRed]

Fair enough. I guess I'm less impressed with his bat as a non-catcher than they are, but I could well be wrong.

[Benihana]

In a dream world, I would trade Griffey, Francisco and Maloney for Clement and Balentien. But like I said, that's a dream world.

While I like Clement, I believe Jocketty prefers defensive-minded catchers like Matheny and Molina. Don't expect a deal for Clement anytime soon.

[jojo]

Fair enough. I guess I'm less impressed with his bat as a non-catcher than they are, but I could well be wrong.

Here's his line through 64 AB in AAA this year: .375/.500/.688. He's got the potential to be a special bat. But you're right, his value isn't as great doing it from first or the DH slot compared to what it would be as a catcher.

His bat is going to be major league ready long before his defensive chops might be as a catcher. The Ms don't have that kind of patience (nor would any team really).

[jojo]

In a dream world, I would trade Griffey, Francisco and Maloney for Clement and Balentien. But like I said, that's a dream world.

While I like Clement, I believe Jocketty prefers defensive-minded catchers like Matheny and Molina. Don't expect a deal for Clement anytime soon.

I almost wish the Jr homecoming would've never happened last season. Seattle doesn't want him and even if they did, Jr's heart is in Florida which might as well be on the other side of the world relative the pacific northwest.

I truly would be shocked if the Ms dealt Clement. I'm positive the above deal wouldn't even be close for Clement alone (he was off the table in the Bedard negotations). The Ms just really, really like him.

Wlad is a different story....

[lollipopcurve]

Clement currently at 4 singles for 32 with 15 Ks. I haven't seen him so I have no idea if it's been as ugly as it looks. With Seattle expected to compete, tough for a rookie to come in expected to help galvanize a weak offense.

[Sea Ray]

Clement currently at 4 singles for 32 with 15 Ks. I haven't seen him so I have no idea if it's been as ugly as it looks. With Seattle expected to compete, tough for a rookie to come in expected to help galvanize a weak offense.

I've seen most every Ms game in the past week and yes it has been pretty ugly but I wouldn't give up on him. He's young and will go through his struggles. What I haven't noticed is how well he catches. He hasn't gotten much time behind the plate

[MartyFan]

What about Johjima for Junior?

[Benihana]

What about Johjima for Junior?

The Mariners just signed Johjima to a 3-year extension so he's not going anywhere.

Now might be a great time to pounce on Clement and buy low. Jr. for Clement straight up. At least one (http://tbcmariners.blogspot.com/2008...d-seattle.html)Mariners blog thinks it could happen.

Best case scenario- Clement rebounds and is our catcher for the next decade.
Worst case scenario- Clement flops but we still rid ourselves of Jr. and bring up Bruce.

Get 'er done Walt.

[jojo]

The Mariners just signed Johjima to a 3-year extension so he's not going anywhere.

Now might be a great time to pounce on Clement and buy low. Jr. for Clement straight up. At least one (http://tbcmariners.blogspot.com/2008...d-seattle.html)Mariners blog thinks it could happen.

Best case scenario- Clement rebounds and is our catcher for the next decade.
Worst case scenario- Clement flops but we still rid ourselves of Jr. and bring up Bruce.

Get 'er done Walt.

There is absolutely zero chance. Pounce indeed.

[fearofpopvol1]

Maybe not Junior for Clement straight up, but I wonder if the Reds threw in someone else with it they would bite. What about Junior and Mesoraco for Clement?

[Nugget]

Worst Case - is that Bruce is brought up Junior goes on for a few years hitting 25HR at 260.

The Mariners are still working out what they want to do - I don't think they will go for Junior unless they are in contention and Junior won't head back unless they are. If the REDS are going to deal Junior it will have to be to a contender.

[Highlifeman21]

Maybe not Junior for Clement straight up, but I wonder if the Reds threw in someone else with it they would bite. What about Junior and Mesoraco for Clement?

IIRC, can't trade Mesoraco yet.

We can trade Stubbs, however...

[fearofpopvol1]

IIRC, can't trade Mesoraco yet.

We can trade Stubbs, however...

PTBNL and agree to Mesoraco in principle? I think you are right, but I think he can be traded in June?

[jojo]

Maybe the Ms do a Jeremy Reed for Jr deal and for some reason Jr agrees to waive his trade rights to move as far away from home as he can without speaking Chinese.

Reed really isn't a CFer (and wouldn't touch Patterson's glove) and hasn't hit major league lefties to save his life, but he's killing AAA and he isn't Corey Patterson. He also scores high on the gritty quotient and would also make Jr disappear. He's cheap too.

Wohooo. A perfect fit.

[Benihana]

Maybe the Ms do a Jeremy Reed for Jr deal and for some reason Jr agrees to waive his trade rights to move as far away from home as he can without speaking Chinese.

Reed really isn't a CFer (and wouldn't touch Patterson's glove) and hasn't hit major league lefties to save his life, but he's killing AAA and he isn't Corey Patterson. He also scores high on the gritty quotient and would also make Jr disappear. He's cheap too.

Wohooo. A perfect fit.

Nope, if not Clement I'd opt for Aumont. If the M's take Aumont, Clement, Balentien, and Trunifel off the board, then I'd look to move Jr. somewhere else.

[jojo]

Nope, if not Clement I'd opt for Aumont. If the M's take Aumont, Clement, Balentien, and Trunifel off the board, then I'd look to move Jr. somewhere else.

You're not being realistic.

[lollipopcurve]

Nope, if not Clement I'd opt for Aumont. If the M's take Aumont, Clement, Balentien, and Trunifel off the board, then I'd look to move Jr. somewhere else.

You're shooting way too high, I think. Seattle stands to gain much more from a Junior trade than any other team, given his legendary status there, but no way they give up any of those players. I think jojo's notion of Jeremy Reed is very plausible -- plus the Reds would have to eat some of the contract. Basically, a token player plus salary relief.

[jojo]

If word leaked out that Jocketty was demanding Clement or Carlos T for Jr, anyone who was considering Jr as a potential option would immediately erase him from their list. Gone would be even the most casual phone call to the Reds FO regarding the status of Jr.

[Benihana]

My point is that you never know with Bavasi. If this were a random team, I'd agree that would be ridiculous value for the Reds. But if you're Walt, you sell Bavasi on why the M's really want and need Jr. back. The chairman's comments last week should help the cause.

[jojo]

My point is that you never know with Bavasi. If this were a random team, I'd agree that would be ridiculous value for the Reds. But if you're Walt, you sell Bavasi on why the M's really want and need Jr. back. The chairman's comments last week should help the cause.

I think this whole "Bavasi is Curious George" thing is way overplayed.

Bavasi has blind spots that can be exploited (Jr isn't one of them). Bavasi isn't a complete moron.

[Highlifeman21]

PTBNL and agree to Mesoraco in principle? I think you are right, but I think he can be traded in June?

Stubbs, and Mesoraco's the PTBNL.

And oh yeah, Griffey too...

[Benihana]

I think this whole "Bavasi is Curious George" thing is way overplayed.

Bavasi has blind spots that can be exploited (Jr isn't one of them). Bavasi isn't a complete moron.

Matt Maloney might very well be one of those blind spots. Jr. and Maloney for any of the guys mentioned above.

[Sea Ray]

You're shooting way too high, I think. Seattle stands to gain much more from a Junior trade than any other team, given his legendary status there, but no way they give up any of those players. I think jojo's notion of Jeremy Reed is very plausible -- plus the Reds would have to eat some of the contract. Basically, a token player plus salary relief.

It all comes down to how much of his contract we have to eat. If they're making us eat his $4mill buyout plus more $$ in 2008 then I only move him if they give us player(s) that'll improve the club.

[jojo]

Matt Maloney might very well be one of those blind spots. Jr. and Maloney for any of the guys mentioned above.

Please just stop.