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redsupport
04-26-2008, 01:15 AM
nice

Legion of Dunn
04-26-2008, 01:17 AM
What does one have to do with the other? You want to give EV back?

RiSK
04-26-2008, 01:17 AM
You want to give EV back?

Oh god, please, no.

JWP
04-26-2008, 01:32 AM
nice

This is an excellent thread.

I would rather have Edinson Volquez than Josh Hamilton. And there's not even a doubt in my mind.

CarolinaRedleg
04-26-2008, 02:13 AM
There's no way the Rangers would have given up Volquez and Herrera for one year of Dunn.

K-GAR
04-26-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm as big a fan of Josh Hamilton as anyone and was actually ticked when the trade went down, having said that, the trade appears to be working for both teams and if you had the option of having a great hitter or a great pitcher, you'll take a great pitcher everytime. And don't get me wrong, neither hamilton nor EV are even close to being considered great.....yet.

Bottom line is, it's looking very much like a great deal for *both* teams, we need to get over it and enjoy Mr. Volquez every 5th day.

jmac
04-26-2008, 11:05 AM
Yeah right now Josh is doing good and I hope it continues.
We are only in April so I am interested in seeing if his durability issues come up again.
We get Volquez who along with Cueto/Harang give us 3 starters that would give a good offensive team a chance to win every game.
Also I am ready for this team to move on from the lefty dominated lineups we have seen for the last 5-7 years.
This will probably be Jr's last year here and I dont know what they will do with Dunn.
But take Bruce/Votto,EE. Keep Kepp in there and move Phillips down a little in the order and get a Manny-Pujols type hitter(hard to find though) to put in there and that will be fine with me.
Actually I said EE but the jury is still out on him IMO. This is his season to make or break.

BTW I said all the lineup thing in regards to Hamilton who paired with Bruce/Votto would have just kept the lefty trend going.

Degenerate39
04-26-2008, 11:08 AM
This is an excellent thread.

I would rather have Edinson Volquez than Josh Hamilton. And there's not even a doubt in my mind.

Pretty much like all his other threads.

The team may need Josh Hamilton but it needs Volquez even more. The pitching staff would be horrible without him right now.

Orodle
04-26-2008, 12:25 PM
I would like to still have Hamilton but every team has good outfielders, few have good pitchers. I'd take Volquez any day if he keeps performing like this.

NastyBoy
04-26-2008, 12:30 PM
Unfortunately, EV only play one out of every five. And where is that number one prospect in all of baseball Jay Bruce? Oh yeah, Louisville.

UC_Ken
04-26-2008, 12:31 PM
I would like to still have Hamilton but every team has good outfielders, few have good pitchers. I'd take Volquez any day if he keeps performing like this.

I'd like to know which outfielder is playing well for the Reds this year.

But anyway I think everyone agrees that we're happy with what we got in that trade and would gladly do it again. And before anyone says we should have traded someone else instead he was the only young, cheap, quality OF we had unless you were willing to move Bruce.

bgwilly31
04-26-2008, 01:42 PM
. And don't get me wrong, neither hamilton nor EV are even close to being considered great.....yet.
.

Yeah i dont agree with that one bit.

EV is doing great yes. But as we found out with arroyo one year of pretty darn good, doesnt neccesarily mean the next year will be pretty darn good.

I think you and everybody else is wrong about hamiltons so called liability issues. Time will tell who's right.

Hamilton will be an ALL-star in some point in his career, that im sure of.
And hamilton is much closer to being considered great than EV is right now.


Now as imo of the trade, if EV does turn out to be the real deal. And i wont really be assured of that until late 08', but if he is i guess im "ok" with the trade. Thats right just "ok" with it.

bgwilly31
04-26-2008, 01:44 PM
I'd like to know which outfielder is playing well for the Reds this year.

But anyway I think everyone agrees that we're happy with what we got in that trade and would gladly do it again. And before anyone says we should have traded someone else instead he was the only young, cheap, quality OF we had unless you were willing to move Bruce.

They didnt want bruce. They wanted hamilton. Why? Because Hamilton is better than bruce.

Degenerate39
04-26-2008, 02:22 PM
They didnt want bruce. They wanted hamilton. Why? Because Hamilton is better than bruce.

Care to elaborate on that? How exactly is Hamilton better than Bruce?

Fullboat
04-26-2008, 02:43 PM
Dunn is like the big SUV that you use to drive to the corner store
and back,a complete waste of talent and money.

757690
04-26-2008, 03:03 PM
They didnt want bruce. They wanted hamilton. Why? Because Hamilton is better than bruce.

Completely false. Every team started every trade discussion with the Reds by asking for Bruce.

Bruce is 7 years younger, and will be better that Hamilton every year he is in the majors.

ChatterRed
04-26-2008, 03:44 PM
JH will be hurt sooner than later.

Degenerate39
04-26-2008, 04:33 PM
JH will be hurt sooner than later.

I really hope you're wrong but chances are you won't be. Hamilton is a great guy and a great talent. I hope he can stay healthy and put together a great season.

jnwohio
04-26-2008, 05:37 PM
Completely false. Every team started every trade discussion with the Reds by asking for Bruce.

Bruce is 7 years younger, and will be better that Hamilton every year he is in the majors.


But if not Bruce did it have to be Hamilton? Why not a package built around say Joey Votto? But then that is all water over the dam.

Nonetheless the primary difference between this sad sack Reds team and the one that played like a contender for a couple of months in the 2nd half of last year until it was beaten down by injuries is the absence of Hamilton. I think it is very fair to say the departed Mr Krivsksy did not anticiapte how big of a hole he was creating by trading Hamilton and failed to do anything to patch it. What ever the underlying details of Krivsky's dismissal might have been, that certainly created the the trigger to make it happen when it did.

Degenerate39
04-26-2008, 05:42 PM
But if not Bruce did it have to be Hamilton? Why not a package built around say Joey Votto? But then that is all water over the dam.

Nonetheless the primary difference between this sad sack Reds team and the one that played like a contender for a couple of months in the 2nd half of last year until it was beaten down by injuries is the absence of Hamilton. I think it is very fair to say the departed Mr Krivsksy did not anticiapte how big of a hole he was creating by trading Hamilton and failed to do anything to patch it. What ever the underlying details of Krivsky's dismissal might have been, that certainly created the the trigger to make it happen when it did.

The Rangers were looking for a Centerfielder. I wonder if they could've worked out a deal surrounding Stubbs and some other prospects for Volquez.

757690
04-26-2008, 06:19 PM
The Rangers really wanted Hamilton and for good reason. Volquez was their top pitching prospect for years, and he had just turned the corner. Votto plus any combination would not have yielded Volquez.
If the Reds had Volquez would you trade him for Votto +, or Stubbs +? This was quality for quality. Hamilton is definitely missed, but one of the main reasons why the Reds made the trade was because they knew they had Bruce. Once Bruce is up, people will miss Hamilton much less.

bradmanuel
04-26-2008, 06:43 PM
I am rooting like crazy for Hamilton in the future, but I'm glad the Reds traded him. Pitching was the biggest weakness on this team and thanks largely to Volquez, it isn't anymore. If Hamilton was here the offensive problems may not have happened like they have, but that likely would be Affeldt in the starting rotation instead of Volquez, which is a considerable downgrade.

mound_patrol
04-26-2008, 07:05 PM
Dunn is like the big SUV that you use to drive to the corner store
and back,a complete waste of talent and money.

Wow, I completely disagree with this statement. 100 RBI's, 100 runs, 40 Hr's and the guy is great at getting on base. He's also made strides to get better on defense this year. He's just miscasted in this lineup.

mlbfan30
04-26-2008, 09:09 PM
But if not Bruce did it have to be Hamilton? Why not a package built around say Joey Votto? But then that is all water over the dam.

Nonetheless the primary difference between this sad sack Reds team and the one that played like a contender for a couple of months in the 2nd half of last year until it was beaten down by injuries is the absence of Hamilton. I think it is very fair to say the departed Mr Krivsksy did not anticiapte how big of a hole he was creating by trading Hamilton and failed to do anything to patch it. What ever the underlying details of Krivsky's dismissal might have been, that certainly created the the trigger to make it happen when it did.

Bruce is just as good, if not better than Hamilton right now.

In 2 years it won't even be close. Baker is the guy who doesn't want Bruce to play and wanted Patterson.

Betterread
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
Hamilton is a special talent. If he avoids injury, he will post amazing numbers in his career span. I love Volquez, and he is exactly what the Reds need, but the Reds lost that deal. Hamilton has intangibles that Dunn doesn't have. Dunn is an amazing athlete, but Hamilton is just...more amazing.

ChatterRed
04-28-2008, 09:40 AM
Ryan Howard meet Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn meet Ryan Howard.

By the way, Howard is leading the majors with 37 k's. Dunn only has 20 k's. ;) Neither has eclipsed 10 rbi's yet.

BurgervilleBuck
04-28-2008, 01:53 PM
I love Volquez, and he is exactly what the Reds need, but the Reds lost that deal.
So let me get this straight, the Reds got a player they needed and yet they still got shafted?

Folks, I understand the mad manlove for Hamilton but let's keep things in perspective. Hamilton was a good hitter but he's also a vulnerability. And it's not as if Hamilton's making the Rangers better. They're 9-17 with him, we're 11-15 without him. I'll take a 1.23 ERA over 27 RBI's right now.

bgwilly31
04-28-2008, 03:03 PM
Completely false. Every team started every trade discussion with the Reds by asking for Bruce.

Bruce is 7 years younger, and will be better that Hamilton every year he is in the majors.

O rly.

i guess you had every trade call on three way right?

The rangers didnt want bruce the rangers wanted HAMILTON or NO DEAL!


So using your statement this is how that convo went.

"hey Mr. krivsky this is the texas rangers., You want to trade that Stud JB for upcoming young gun EV?" Mr. krivsky "Hell no"...
"Ok fine how about hamilton?" Mr. krisvsky "Throw in that short mideget pitcher you got to make it look like a i got a little more for Hamilton and you gotta deal" :lol:

Sounds about right:rolleyes:

EddieMilner
04-28-2008, 03:24 PM
O rly.

i guess you had every trade call on three way right?

The rangers didnt want bruce the rangers wanted HAMILTON or NO DEAL!


So using your statement this is how that convo went.

"hey Mr. krivsky this is the texas rangers., You want to trade that Stud JB for upcoming young gun EV?" Mr. krivsky "Hell no"...
"Ok fine how about hamilton?" Mr. krisvsky "Throw in that short mideget pitcher you got to make it look like a i got a little more for Hamilton and you gotta deal" :lol:


This is pretty much the opposite of lol. No offense, its just not even humorous in the least.

Please explain how you know that the Rangers wanted "HAMILTON or NO DEAL!" Seems like with your conviction, you must have some inside info.

Jefferson24
04-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Care to elaborate on that? How exactly is Hamilton better than Bruce?

I think at this moment Hamilton is better than Bruce. In 6 years (when Bruce is Hamilton's age now) that will likely not be the case. But with Hamilton producing at the major league level right now he should be considered better but only in the present. 2 months from now or 2 years from now that all could change.

Jefferson24
04-28-2008, 03:33 PM
Bruce is just as good, if not better than Hamilton right now.





How do you figure? Bruce has not even had a major league at bat. Hamilton has played at the major league level and has been very successful. Compare apples to apples. AAA numbers compared to major league stats are not equal.

Let Bruce play a few months at the major league level then evaluate. I hope to heck that he is better than Josh, but at this point it's only hope.

757690
04-28-2008, 04:44 PM
O rly.

i guess you had every trade call on three way right?

The rangers didnt want bruce the rangers wanted HAMILTON or NO DEAL!


So using your statement this is how that convo went.

"hey Mr. krivsky this is the texas rangers., You want to trade that Stud JB for upcoming young gun EV?" Mr. krivsky "Hell no"...
"Ok fine how about hamilton?" Mr. krisvsky "Throw in that short mideget pitcher you got to make it look like a i got a little more for Hamilton and you gotta deal" :lol:

Sounds about right:rolleyes:

I know lots of things without direct empirical knowledge. I know that other teams started all trade conversations with the Reds by asking for Bruce because every reporter who covers the Reds, and even some who don't, have made that assertion.

BurgervilleBuck
04-28-2008, 05:11 PM
Hamilton is a good player now. Bruce has the potential to be a good player. That's about as accurate as we can get with that comparison now. Oh, and bgwilly, many teams were asking for Bruce.

Degenerate39
04-28-2008, 05:13 PM
I know lots of things without direct empirical knowledge. I know that other teams started all trade conversations with the Reds by asking for Bruce because every reporter who covers the Reds, and even some who don't, have made that assertion.

It's pretty well known that all trade talks with the Reds started with Jay Bruce. I've heard the announcers talk about if a few times this season and I've read about it this offseason. Wayne would NOT trade Bruce at all.