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View Full Version : Dusty, worst manager (Maxim)



smith288
04-26-2008, 05:05 PM
Ok, so its maxim, but they make good points in their selection

link (http://www.maxim.com/Sports/1Dustybakercincinnatireds/slideshow/21841/1916.aspx)

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 07:15 PM
Well Dusty wanted Patterson and Hairston here and all of a sudden Patterson is hitting leadoff, that gets Freel, Hopper seeing limited playing time and looking bad while supporting that Bruce just isn’t good enough yet.

Next we see centerfielder and the ss frequently hitting one two in the order whether they are good in those positions or not. Then we see Hairston come up and man centerfield, then second base, then ss.

Clearly Dusty had a plan and is implementing it such as batting Dunn down in the order so Dusty could live with his theory of shortstop and centerfielder batting one two. Keeping Bruce down so that his Patterson love won’t risk being challenged.

He had the free swinging Phillips creating bad habits as the cleanup hitter even though he is not a cleanup hitter, now Phillips is reported as being frustrated and hitting poorly. Dusty appeased Griffey and allows him to continue to hit third and the results have been less than desirable especially against left handed pitchers, Dusty apparently doesn’t feel that Encarcion would do well hitting third, while he speaks of Phillips being a good hitter with power, not a power hitter who can hit well to right, though Phillips can’t bat 2(or sixth or seventh) behind Keppinger who clearly exposes Patterson as a poor leadoff choice.

Doesn’t matter what the stats or performances say, Dusty is going to stick to his old boys and old theories that don’t work unless you have the right people.

Dusty manipulates the players so that their performances eventually supports his agenda and theories, he works against bringing out the best in his players in lieu of his fixations and obsessions.

He had little choice but to go with Cueto, Volquez and Votto thank god, or it could be worse.

WMR
04-26-2008, 07:21 PM
Dusty manages as poorly as this team is playing.

pedro
04-26-2008, 07:25 PM
I think he's done ok with exception of his lineups which are really really bad.

Maxim's parroting a bunch of tired analysis and jumping on the band wagon.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 07:31 PM
Dusty manages as poorly as this team is playing.

The ole fox is pretty good at giving players x, y or z limited playing time to effect their timing etc, which feeds support to his choice of Patterson and Hairston to begin with. Hopper, Freel, Hatteberg, Dunn, Valetin, Bruce and now Phillips just can’t get the job done. Watch Dusty’s actions then cross check them with his words, of course the results somehow are “groundhog day” and nothing more to Dusty.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 07:38 PM
I think he's done ok with exception of his lineups which are really really bad.
Maxim's parroting a bunch of tired analysis and jumping on the band wagon.

I don't think that we need outsiders to see what we see ourselves within the results on the playing field.

Pitching coach handles pitchers
Hitting coach handles hitters
Fielding coach handles fielding

Dusty, well he makes out the lineups and puts players in the best position for them to produce and succeed. The reults to date are what they are.

On pitching what choice did they have other than Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Volquez and Fogg/Belisle? Not much, so I don't see how Dusty has done much well to date. Flowery words don't convince, results do, they are objective.

pedro
04-26-2008, 07:45 PM
Pitching coach handles pitchers
Hitting coach handles hitters
Fielding coach handles fielding

Dusty, well he makes out the lineups

That's a massive over simplification.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 07:53 PM
That's a massive over simplification.

Sure it is, but my over simplications are not the problem. Dusty's over simplications are a contributing problem.

Numerous people far more adapt at stats and deeper students of the game than I can come on this thread and tell us sophisticated objective reasons why or why not the following:

Patterson doesn't leadoff or belong on this team
Dunn should not be hitting down in the order
Phillips doesn't belong hitting cleanup
Griffey doesn't belong hitting third anymore
Encarcion should be hitting up in the order
Keppinger should be hitting leadoff
How taking playing time away from players hurts their ability to perform
How doing things wrong effects the RSvsRA and wins/losses
How losses lead to a team with apathy and frequent gaffs in individual performance
Hairston duplication of Freel and Hopper types
Hatteberg left handed hitter platoon with a left handed Votto

Dusty's over simplications of just hitting SS and CF one two in the order and other examples that I don't have right now at the tip of my fingers is a contributing problem.

GAC
04-26-2008, 07:59 PM
I think he's done ok with exception of his lineups which are really really bad.

Maxim's parroting a bunch of tired analysis and jumping on the band wagon.

I agree totally; but I loved this from the article. How prophetic....


And there will be bunts. Hundreds of bunts. Bunts everywhere. Dusty will be to the bunt what Alexis de Tocqueville was to democracy.

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 08:06 PM
I think that we fans miss the pieces that go into making a recipe for good outcomes, when I can off the top of my head list 11 grocery items that Dusty incorporates into his recipe for winning in error, surely there are more brighter than I can that come up with and support why Dusty is wrong.

When Dusty puts his 11 little things, 11 little pieces, erroneous ingredients into the lineup and it comes out tasting like losing. Something needs to be done.

Chip R
04-26-2008, 11:30 PM
Maxim doesn't like Dusty? What's the matter, doesn't he show enough cleavage?

Spring~Fields
04-26-2008, 11:31 PM
Maxim doesn't like Dusty? What's the matter, doesn't he show enough cleavage?

:D I just knew that you were a closet Dusty Fan :D

pedro
04-26-2008, 11:56 PM
I think that we fans miss the pieces that go into making a recipe for good outcomes, when I can off the top of my head list 11 grocery items that Dusty incorporates into his recipe for winning in error, surely there are more brighter than I can that come up with and support why Dusty is wrong.

When Dusty puts his 11 little things, 11 little pieces, erroneous ingredients into the lineup and it comes out tasting like losing. Something needs to be done.

Your list is redundant.

Obviously if some guys need to move up then by logical extension others will have to move down. They aren't separate and distinct events.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2008, 12:55 AM
Your list is redundant.

Obviously if some guys need to move up then by logical extension others will have to move down. They aren't separate and distinct events.

True

It is redundant and superfluous.

That is what I have gleamed from others on RZ and seen in the management decisions game to game.

Much of the problems with this team are redundant.

Of course if the same eight are played a natural flow of up or down would follow as a natural consequence.

WVRedsFan
04-27-2008, 01:07 AM
I think he's done ok with exception of his lineups which are really really bad.

Maxim's parroting a bunch of tired analysis and jumping on the band wagon.

I've been pleasantly surprised in his lack of use of marginal players like Freel and Hopper as well as Valentin. You could bet that Narron and Mackanin would use those players a lot. I don't like the Patterson and Hairston acquisitions, but this team's problems have not been the manager this time.

I also liked that he didn't wait for Coffey to get his brain beaten out tonight in this game. He went straight to Cordero who made one bad pitch.

Hap
04-27-2008, 08:36 AM
How can they claim that Dusty ruined Carlos Zambrano's arm? CZam has never missed any significant time due to injury and he is currently one of the best pitchers in the world.

Spring~Fields
04-27-2008, 08:43 AM
Your list is redundant.



Here is a single event that the Cincinnati Enquirer brings to our attention this morning. Perhaps one issue at a time needs to be dealt with correctly. Of course we have to leave "correctly" to the Reds management. Yet it is a simple move that they can correct proactively.

"That Corey Patterson's on-base average of .288 in 73 plate appearances as a Red is slightly lower than it was in his time with the Chicago Cubs playing for Dusty Baker, when it wasn't any good, either?"

~source: Cincinnati Enquirer

RedFanAlways1966
04-27-2008, 09:55 AM
How can they claim that Dusty ruined Carlos Zambrano's arm? CZam has never missed any significant time due to injury and he is currently one of the best pitchers in the world.

Because a mag that is sort of a "Cosmopolitan for Men" doesn't know enough about MLB to make accurate comments? Seems obvious that the attempt to be cute and funny outweighed the attempt to be accurate. I must admit that each of the top 5 worst managers stories had me laughing. Some of the comments were funny.

Raisor
04-27-2008, 09:59 AM
wait, maxim has ARTICLES?

Really?

smith288
04-27-2008, 10:21 AM
Because a mag that is sort of a "Cosmopolitan for Men" doesn't know enough about MLB to make accurate comments? Seems obvious that the attempt to be cute and funny outweighed the attempt to be accurate. I must admit that each of the top 5 worst managers stories had me laughing. Some of the comments were funny.
That's what I thought was pretty funny.

Comso for men even see how bad Dusty is. CZam's arm might not have been ruined but there's a couple of dudes thought to be sure locks to anchor that rotation that are now afterthoughts and WEHT answers.

OldXOhio
04-27-2008, 12:00 PM
But In Touch and Oprah both voted Dusty one of the best in the game. I'm gonna need to read a few more fashion magazines before I can make an educated decision on Dusty.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2008, 12:04 PM
Maxim should stick to hot chicks....which they do a very good job with.

paintmered
04-27-2008, 09:24 PM
Elle voted him as the 7th ranked manager for his fashion sense.

GAC
04-27-2008, 09:26 PM
I think the toothpicks really, really clash with the rest of his wardrobe. Just toooo much. ;)