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edabbs44
04-28-2008, 11:10 AM
Boy, am I shocked.


Reds notebook
Hatteberg would welcome a trade
BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM


SAN FRANCISCO - Scott Hatteberg is not one to demand a trade or even complain. But you get the impression he's miserable in his current role of pinch-hitter/occasional starter.

"It's difficult," he said. "I've never been a very good pinch-hitter. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm trying."

And he'd be the first to tell you not very successfully. Hatteberg is 0-for-7 as a pinch-hitter. He's hitting .161 overall. He's 4-for-8 with two doubles and three RBI in his last three starts.


But those starts are going to be hard to come by - given the way Joey Votto is playing.

ESPN's Peter Gammons floated the idea of the Mets trying to obtain Hatteberg to platoon with Carlos Delgado.

Again, Hatteberg isn't demanding a trade but he'd welcome one.

"First and foremost, I'd like to be here and help the team win," he said. "I play baseball to play."

Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said he hasn't heard from anyone asking about Hatteberg. Would he consider moving Hatteberg if someone made an offer?

"I don't know," Jocketty said. "I haven't talked to the staff. He's been an important part of the team. I'll do what I can to improve the club."

Hatteberg hit .310 last year. But his style is not suited for pinch-hitting. Manager Dusty Baker stressed to him that the only pitch a pinch-hitter gets to hit is oft times the first one. Hatteberg rarely swings at first pitches.

"That flies in the face of the way I hit," he said. "This is my 13th year in the major leagues. I have a theory behind how I like to hit. I like to see a lot of pitches. Pinch-hitting isn't really conducive to that. I change my approach a little bit."

REST DAY: Both Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn were out of the lineup Sunday. Ryan Freel started in left and Jerry Hairston Jr. started in right. Left-hander Barry Zito was pitching, but that was only part of it.

"Griff needs it physically," Baker said. "He's been playing a lot. I've been seeing him committing kind of early on his swing. He hasn't played this much early in three years. He wants to play. Dunn needs mental day. Hopefully, this will get back on stage like it did Brandon (Phillips)."

Phillips has gone 6-for-12 with three homers and seven RBI since not being in the starting lineup on Friday.

Both Griffey and Dunn are struggling.

Griffey is hitting .244 with four home runs and a team-high 15 RBI. Dunn is hitting .192 with three home runs and eight RBI.

Neither Griffey nor Dunn had big Aprils last year. Griffey hit .254 with one home run and nine RBI. Dunn hit .261 with six home runs and 12 RBI. Both had big Mays. Griffey hit .306 with 10 home runs and 22 RBI. Dunn hit .252 with eight homers and 23 RBI.

Baker's theory on resting players goes back to Hank Aaron.

"He said you play 150 games a year," Baker said. "Those other 10 or 12 game your name's just occupying ink on the paper."

DUSTY ON HAIRSTON: Baker likes what he's seen from Jerry Hairston Jr. in a utility role.

Hairston started in right field Sunday - one of five positions he's played. "He's very valuable," Baker said. "He knows how to stay ready."

Hairston was an everyday player in the majors at age 25 to starting this year in the minors at age 32. "Going to the minor leagues when you were once one of the most promising players around is tough to take," Baker said. "You swallow you're pride and go down and get better."

"He's better for it."

BAKER ON BARRY: On the final day of the series here, Baker was finally asked about Barry Bonds. "I talked to Barry a couple of weeks ago," Baker said.

Baker said they didn't talk much baseball and he wouldn't say what they talked about as far as Bonds' future.

"The longer he's out the less likely he is to come back," Baker said, "and the less likely he may want to come back. I'm sure he's got enough money. If you got enough money and your time is being occupied by doing what you want to do, maybe you're enjoying it."

Did Bonds sound like he missed it?

"He didn't to me," Baker said. "You don't miss some (stuff). That's what you don't miss."



http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080428/SPT04/804280343/1071/SPT

Highlifeman21
04-28-2008, 11:27 AM
I honestly can't think of any MLB team for which Hatteberg would currently start.

WMR
04-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Uh oh, call the Waaahmbulance.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/evilphurball/waahmbulance.jpg

http://youngmanhattanite.com/uploaded_images/waahmbulance-747602.jpg

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 11:41 AM
He is getting older and nearing the end of his career, it seems natural that he wants to be where he can play, he knows that he can do a decent job with playing time. Like they always say, “you want people who want to play and are unhappy when they don’t”, the team doesn’t need them if they don’t care whether they play or not.

Why not appease him and let him go where he will be happy if a team is interested.

WMR
04-28-2008, 11:42 AM
The only way that the Reds should consider moving him is if it is in their best interest to do so. His statements notwithstanding, he's our best LH pinch hitter.

HotCorner
04-28-2008, 12:13 PM
I think Detroit would be a good spot for him since they are looking for a left hand bat. Plus they are currently using Guillen and Cabrera at 1B.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 12:16 PM
He is getting older and nearing the end of his career, it seems natural that he wants to be where he can play, he knows that he can do a decent job with playing time. Like they always say, “you want people who want to play and are unhappy when they don’t”, the team doesn’t need them if they don’t care whether they play or not.

Why not appease him and let him go where he will be happy if a team is interested.

That's the problem. I don't think anyone is interested.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 12:17 PM
The only way that the Reds should consider moving him is if it is in their best interest to do so. His statements notwithstanding, he's our best LH pinch hitter.

Hmmm. He's like 0-7 as a PH and admits he doesn't do that well.

If he's our best (and he may well be) we got a problem.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 12:20 PM
Hmmm. He's like 0-7 as a PH and admits he doesn't do that well.

If he's our best (and he may well be) we got a problem.

His career numbers don't help the case either.

And I'm sure his attitude isn't the best when he gets up there.

KoryMac5
04-28-2008, 12:41 PM
Scott Hatteberg is not one to demand a trade or even complain. But you get the impression he's miserable in his current role of pinch-hitter/occasional starter.


Again, Hatteberg isn't demanding a trade but he'd welcome one.

"First and foremost, I'd like to be here and help the team win," he said. "I play baseball to play."

Hatte is a competitor who wants to contribute, as any player does. I haven't heard him shy away from the media nor has he demanded a trade. During his stint with the Reds I haven't found him to be a whiner, in fact he is highly respected in the Reds clubhouse. To portray him as such is poor judgement. In my opinion I still think he has something left in the tank to offer a team in a platoon role. I know the Reds have tried to trade him in the past, however he is a great insurance policy to have. I think they will hold on to him until the deadline and than deal him for a mid level prospect.

SMcGavin
04-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Didn't Hatteberg say last season, that if the Reds were just going to keep him as a pinch hitter that he would rather them not exercise his option?

Screwball
04-28-2008, 12:51 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ adds a little bit:



Hatteberg Hopes For Trade

According to John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer, first baseman Scott Hatteberg would welcome a trade. Joey Votto, off to a .310/.319/.549 start (AVG/OBP/SLG), seems to have taken Hatteberg's job. When asked about the situation, new GM Walt Jocketty said he hasn't had inquiries on the veteran. He makes just $1.85MM, so that won't be an obstacle.

Hatteberg, 38, hit .310/.394/.474 in 116 games last year for the Reds while facing mostly righties (he's a lefthanded hitter with a major platoon split). For that reason, Hatteberg wouldn't pair well with Carlos Delgado on the Mets. He'd be better suited to replace Delgado if the Mets release him. Delgado might have bought himself some time with a two homer game yesterday.

One first baseman who doesn't hit righties well is Richie Sexson. Hatteberg could be a good fit in Seattle.


Would Hatt be a good fit in Seattle, jojo? If so, what might they be willing to give up?

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 12:58 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ adds a little bit:



Would Hatt be a good fit in Seattle, jojo? If so, what might they be willing to give up?

I think Sexson makes a little too much to be the RH platoon partner. He'll see very little ABs compared to the other side.

And Sexson has a career OPS of only 18 points less against RHPs than LHPs. Last year was a down year but 2006 he was much better vs RHPs.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 01:09 PM
This look like bad writing (again) by Fay. No where does it say Hatteberg would welcome a trade. Do I think he'd welcome one if given the chance to play more? Absolutely. However, he doesn't say that. I'd be made at Fay if I were Hatteberg.

I actually think Hatte would be a good fit with the Mets platooning. I don't think we'd get any value for him, but yeah, I think so.

blumj
04-28-2008, 01:56 PM
I think Detroit would be a good spot for him since they are looking for a left hand bat. Plus they are currently using Guillen and Cabrera at 1B.
Guillen's at 3B, Cabrera 1B, Sheffield DH. They might want a LH bat, but he wouldn't get many starts over any of them.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 01:57 PM
This look like bad writing (again) by Fay. No where does it say Hatteberg would welcome a trade. Do I think he'd welcome one if given the chance to play more? Absolutely. However, he doesn't say that. I'd be made at Fay if I were Hatteberg.

I actually think Hatte would be a good fit with the Mets platooning. I don't think we'd get any value for him, but yeah, I think so.

I get the feeling that Fay was paraphrasing and that he actually said that.

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 02:01 PM
His career numbers don't help the case either.

And I'm sure his attitude isn't the best when he gets up there.

I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment. No question, he'd like to be in a different situation, but in the article he plainly said that he's trying to adjust his approach while acknowledging that the skills a pinch hitter require are not the same that he's utilized throughout his career.

I agree with the person who said you want players to always want to play. Hatteberg has struck me during his time with our club as a consumate professional. I don't read this article as making a stinking - it is lamenting his current plight, but when push comes to shove, if he's on the team, I believe it's in his nature as a ballplayer to give it his best.

Team Clark
04-28-2008, 02:08 PM
His career numbers don't help the case either.

And I'm sure his attitude isn't the best when he gets up there.

His career numbers as a PH are most certainly poor. Certainly can't argue with you on that point. However, I would not go so far as to say his attitude isn't the best when he gets to the plate when called upon to PH. Hatte is a professional. When he leaves that on deck circle and heads to the plate I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that he's NOT thinking "Screw this".

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 02:16 PM
Another hitter held onto for too long.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Another hitter held onto for too long.

I'm pretty sure they tried to move him and didn't have any takers. His option was reasonable enough to pick up.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 02:29 PM
I'm pretty sure they tried to move him and didn't have any takers. His option was reasonable enough to pick up.

Even if he was free his presence hurts the flexibility of the roster.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 02:30 PM
His career numbers as a PH are most certainly poor. Certainly can't argue with you on that point. However, I would not go so far as to say his attitude isn't the best when he gets to the plate when called upon to PH. Hatte is a professional. When he leaves that on deck circle and heads to the plate I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that he's NOT thinking "Screw this".

Not like "Screw this." More like "I hate pinch hitting, I hate this role, I wish I was starting everyday. I wish I was somewhere else." Obviously not the best state of mind.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Even if he was free his presence hurts the flexibility of the roster.

There had to be some backup for Votto. It looks like a bad signing now, but at the time, for his production and the cost, it was a pretty good bet.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 02:35 PM
I'm not sure if that's an accurate assessment. No question, he'd like to be in a different situation, but in the article he plainly said that he's trying to adjust his approach while acknowledging that the skills a pinch hitter require are not the same that he's utilized throughout his career.

I agree with the person who said you want players to always want to play. Hatteberg has struck me during his time with our club as a consumate professional. I don't read this article as making a stinking - it is lamenting his current plight, but when push comes to shove, if he's on the team, I believe it's in his nature as a ballplayer to give it his best.

He might but there is also a mental aspect.

He might be saying "I'm trying", but deep down he might be believing that he can't.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 02:37 PM
There had to be some backup for Votto. It looks like a bad signing now, but at the time, for his production and the cost, it was a pretty good bet.

I wasn't a fan from day one for pretty much the exact reasons playing out.

Not that I'm patting myself on the back, but I'm not surprised in the least bit. I thought it was pretty obvious what would happen. Either Hatte would stunt Votto's growth or there would be no need for a guy hitting from the same side as Votto with zero running ability, very little glove abilities and no history of successful pinch hitting.

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 02:56 PM
He might but there is also a mental aspect.

He might be saying "I'm trying", but deep down he might be believing that he can't.

When the best fail nearly 70% of the time, odds are most hitters have those moments. I'm all for moving Hatteberg, but I have never believed he would be disruptive to a team when he's in the position he's in currently. Remember this is one of the players his peers in MLB have stated would make a fine manager in the future. That's not a player who's going to pout and look to fail, IMO.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 02:58 PM
When the best fail nearly 70% of the time, odds are most hitters have those moments. I'm all for moving Hatteberg, but I have never believed he would be disruptive to a team when he's in the position he's in currently. Remember this is one of the players his peers in MLB have stated would make a fine manager in the future. That's not a player who's going to pout and look to fail, IMO.

Again, I don't think he is "looking to fail." I think that he probably isn't in the best state of mind throughout a game. He's not purposely trying to ground into triple plays. But I think he is prettly melancholy throughout a game and doesn't exactly have his gameface on when it is his turn.

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Again, I don't think he is "looking to fail." I think that he probably isn't in the best state of mind throughout a game. He's not purposely trying to ground into triple plays. But I think he is prettly melancholy throughout a game and doesn't exactly have his gameface on when it is his turn.

Methinks we're being a little too Dr. Phil on old Scott.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Methinks we're being a little too Dr. Phil on old Scott.

Scott is human.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 03:08 PM
That was another head-scratcher....keeping Hatteberg, when Votto was the guy, while releasing the right handed hitting, Cantu.

Hatteberg had to know this was going to happen....but I understand that he's probably not thrilled with it.

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 03:13 PM
Scott is human.

On that we can agree. Unfortunately, you assume the bad, I assume he's a grown up and knows he has a job to do. No sense banging our heads over something neither of us can really answer.

Will M
04-28-2008, 03:31 PM
Move Hat to one of the teams he could help. Call up Jay Bruce to replace Hat on the roster. Bruce plays CF. When we are winning late in the game move Bruce to RF, Patterson plays CF & Griffey (or Dunn) go to the bench.

REDREAD
04-28-2008, 03:56 PM
I guess I never consider something like this whining. Hat is just saying he's not very good at pinch hitting and he'd rather play every day.

I'd be more worried if he was happy with his reduce role, since it was easier or something like that. Hat is obviously a competitor that doesn't want to get paid to just sit on the bench. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just like there was nothing wrong when Aurillia wished he had more PT (and a lot of Redszone jumped on Aurrilia for that).

TeamBoone
04-28-2008, 04:06 PM
Hatte is a competitor who wants to contribute, as any player does. I haven't heard him shy away from the media nor has he demanded a trade. During his stint with the Reds I haven't found him to be a whiner, in fact he is highly respected in the Reds clubhouse. To portray him as such is poor judgement. In my opinion I still think he has something left in the tank to offer a team in a platoon role. I know the Reds have tried to trade him in the past, however he is a great insurance policy to have. I think they will hold on to him until the deadline and than deal him for a mid level prospect.

I couldn't agree more. I don't blame him for being unhappy with his current role. And what he said was hardly whining, nor has he ever been pegged as being one. Seems like whenever a player says something that fans interpret as negative, he's a whiner. It's no wonder they don't like to talk to the press.

He's not hitting because as he said, he's not very good in the PH role. I think he's a player who needs everyday at-bats, as he's proven over the past two seasons with the Reds. He's been a contributor... and a pretty good one.

I find it hard to believe that there's not one team that would like to have him. He's respected in the clubhouse and still has something to offer, as he's already proven. If he was playing regularly, he'd be hitting.

edabbs44
04-28-2008, 04:13 PM
I couldn't agree more. I don't blame him for being unhappy with his current role. And what he said was hardly whining, nor has he ever been pegged as being one. Seems like whenever a player says something that fans interpret as negative, he's a whiner. It's no wonder they don't like to talk to the press.

He's not hitting because as he said, he's not very good in the PH role. I think he's a player who needs everyday at-bats, as he's proven over the past two seasons with the Reds. He's been a contributor... and a pretty good one.

I find it hard to believe that there's not one team that would like to have him. He's respected in the clubhouse and still has something to offer, as he's already proven. If he was playing regularly, he'd be hitting.

I kind of disagree as I believe he has little to offer another team based on his home/road splits since he got to Cincy. Add that to his defensive restrictions, his apparent dislike for pinch hitting and his lack of speed and I really don't see much reason anyone would acquire him unless they had a gaping hole at first base.

RedsManRick
04-28-2008, 04:15 PM
I was thinking of this the other day. I cannot imagine how frustrating it would be to be at the top of one's profession and day after day not be allowed to do it. And then, when you are called upon, you are asked to do something more difficult in a manner which does not fit your strengths.

Take this and apply it to your own industry. I can only imagine the level of my frustration.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2008, 05:44 PM
I was thinking of this the other day. I cannot imagine how frustrating it would be to be at the top of one's profession and day after day not be allowed to do it. And then, when you are called upon, you are asked to do something more difficult in a manner which does not fit your strengths.

Take this and apply it to your own industry. I can only imagine the level of my frustration.

I definitely feel for Hatteberg.

He gave Cincy possibly the best years of his career, and now he's on the bench left to rot. He's not a PH, but unfortunately he's our defacto PH.

He was good enough to start for us until Votto was ready, and now Votto's ready, which leaves no PT for Hatteberg. Since he's also a LHB, doesn't make much sense to platoon him with Votto, and Hatteberg isn't good enough at this point in his career to start for other teams. I think that right there is a commentary on the state of the Cincinnati Reds, as well as 1B league-wide.

I hope we can move him to a team that has a chance at winning the World Series this year, or at least make it to the playoffs, b/c the Reds don't fit either of those categories. Should we be able to move Hatteberg, I hope we get something of use in return, but I'm not holding my breath.

MartyFan
04-28-2008, 09:52 PM
I think he could play circles around Aruilia in SF.

SandyD
04-28-2008, 10:19 PM
I
I find it hard to believe that there's not one team that would like to have him. He's respected in the clubhouse and still has something to offer, as he's already proven. If he was playing regularly, he'd be hitting.

I'd imagine there are teams that wouldn't mind "having him" on their roster ... just not sure they'd be willing to give something of even remote value for him.

And given that he may be a good influence in the clubhouse, especially with some of the young ones on the roster, the Reds might not want to just "give him away."

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2008, 05:19 PM
How about Hatteberg, Freel & Fogg to Texas for Gerald Laird and Joaquin Arias? We could probably even send them a few bucks to balance out the deal.

Hatteberg and Castro to Baltimore for Millar?

Hatteberg and Valentin to NYY for Morgan Ensberg?

Chip R
04-29-2008, 06:03 PM
And given that he may be a good influence in the clubhouse, especially with some of the young ones on the roster, the Reds might not want to just "give him away."


Interesting you mention that. C. Trent was on Lance's show this afternoon and the subject of Hatteberg came up. Trent was saying that Bruce and Votto were basically following him around everywhere during ST and Votto currently lockers next to him. Trent feels that he has been a mentor to those guys and that alone could be worth his salary.

Aronchis
04-29-2008, 07:32 PM
Votto is almost 25 years old. Time to start thinking out of the "young kid" mentallity.

Hoosier Red
04-30-2008, 10:12 AM
That was another head-scratcher....keeping Hatteberg, when Votto was the guy, while releasing the right handed hitting, Cantu.

Hatteberg had to know this was going to happen....but I understand that he's probably not thrilled with it.

He didn't have any choice in the matter though. It was a club option. He said last year that if he was going to be a pinch hitter, he wished the Reds would just not exercise his option.

That being said, he's not really being disruptive, or whining. He just says he's not comfortable in the role and we knew that all along.

redsmetz
04-30-2008, 10:36 AM
He didn't have any choice in the matter though. It was a club option. He said last year that if he was going to be a pinch hitter, he wished the Reds would just not exercise his option.

That being said, he's not really being disruptive, or whining. He just says he's not comfortable in the role and we knew that all along.

One of the tools that Krivsky used in acquiring players, I think, was to have reasonable contracts for players with limited roles who could be flipped later for prospects. Sometimes it worked (e.g. Conine), other times not (Cormier). I think he exercised the option for two reasons: 1) In case Votto wasn't ready; 2) to be able to flip the contract, which, it seems, is proving harder to do.

Again, as you noted, Hatteberg is, frankly, being very professional about things. He's not throwing a fit, but he would prefer to be elsewhere with more playing time.

blumj
04-30-2008, 11:25 AM
I'd imagine there are teams that wouldn't mind "having him" on their roster ... just not sure they'd be willing to give something of even remote value for him.

And given that he may be a good influence in the clubhouse, especially with some of the young ones on the roster, the Reds might not want to just "give him away."
Sure, and he'd be on another team's roster in essentially the same role he's in now, as a backup, PHer, occasional sub, injury replacement. That wouldn't make anything better for him. The only team that would want him as a starter would be a team whose regular starter at 1B gets seriously injured, and that team hasn't appeared yet, but still might.

vaticanplum
04-30-2008, 09:12 PM
Interesting you mention that. C. Trent was on Lance's show this afternoon and the subject of Hatteberg came up. Trent was saying that Bruce and Votto were basically following him around everywhere during ST and Votto currently lockers next to him. Trent feels that he has been a mentor to those guys and that alone could be worth his salary.

I love Scott Hatteberg.

I think his option was reasonable...I also think management expected him to be better in the PH role than he has been. He's always had a good eye, he seems to weather pressure well, and he has experience and maturity. Great qualities for a pinch hitter. I also do wonder if certain folk hoped that this would be his final year of playing and that he'd then be a good one to move into a coaching or management role within the organization (which may still prove true).

Unfortunately, I think they disregarded the drawbacks of his age, his lack of power, and his left-handedness. He may yet improve in this role though.

bucksfan2
05-01-2008, 08:41 AM
I don't feel bad for Hatteberg at all, I actually fault him a little for his lack of hitting. Hatteberg is not a dumb guy and at the end of last season he knew what was coming. He knew his option would have been picked up and knew Votto was the 1b of the future. He knew his value to the team would be in a backup roll and that of a pinch hitter. Did he volunteer to go the the arizona winter leagues to learn how to pinch hit better? Did he go to Dusty in spring training and ask to be used as a pinch hitter more often? Did he to the required work in order become a more aggressive hitter?

I understand that he doens't want to be a pinch hitter. I understand that he wants to play every day. But I also understand that he knew what situation he was getting himself into. If he didn't want to play the roll of backup/pinch hitter then he could have retired.

Highlifeman21
05-01-2008, 08:58 AM
How about Hatteberg, Freel & Fogg to Texas for Gerald Laird and Joaquin Arias? We could probably even send them a few bucks to balance out the deal.

Hatteberg and Castro to Baltimore for Millar?

Hatteberg and Valentin to NYY for Morgan Ensberg?

Why would Texas give up Laird for our trash? Texas is set in their OF, and while Fogg might make the back of their rotation, it looks like Salty will be playing some 1B w/ Broussard, and Laird will stay behind the dish.

Why would we want Millar?

Ensberg I like, but doesn't he hit from the left side of the plate?

OldXOhio
05-01-2008, 09:22 AM
Why would Texas give up Laird for our trash? Texas is set in their OF, and while Fogg might make the back of their rotation, it looks like Salty will be playing some 1B w/ Broussard, and Laird will stay behind the dish.

Why would we want Millar?

Ensberg I like, but doesn't he hit from the left side of the plate?

Ensberg hits RH. And the Reds need to stay as far away from him as possible.

pahster
05-01-2008, 09:43 AM
Ensberg hits RH. And the Reds need to stay as far away from him as possible.

Maybe. As I recall, he's a pretty good defender. His 2007 was pretty bad and he hasn't been impressive yet this year. There's still plenty of time left for him to turn it around, though. He's got a career IsoD of .100, which is pretty darn good.

Spring~Fields
05-01-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't feel bad for Hatteberg at all, I actually fault him a little for his lack of hitting. Hatteberg is not a dumb guy and at the end of last season he knew what was coming.

I don't see why Hatteberg hasn't received more playing time and why he can't considering the Reds current offensive woes.

Votto could play some left while Hatteberg gets some live batting practice and playing time, Dunn could get a rest to refresh him. Since they won't pitch to Dunn maybe they would to Hatteberg and Votto. Keeping Hatteberg on the bench too much seems to hurt his production, making him a bit of a waste of time and money for the Reds, the guy can hit, but he needs to play now and then. If Baker doesn't rotate some of the guys in enough they won't be sharp as bench players or pinch hitters.

OldXOhio
05-01-2008, 12:12 PM
I don't feel bad for Hatteberg at all, I actually fault him a little for his lack of hitting.

Come on, the guy's done nothing but hit since he got here a few years ago. Coming off a very good 2007, you say he hasn't hit? Based on what, 34 AB this season in a bench role? A sub-par spring? I understand Votto is the future and should be the starter, but I don't get why SH should be bashed over expressing his desire to play more.

bucksfan2
05-01-2008, 03:13 PM
Come on, the guy's done nothing but hit since he got here a few years ago. Coming off a very good 2007, you say he hasn't hit? Based on what, 34 AB this season in a bench role? A sub-par spring? I understand Votto is the future and should be the starter, but I don't get why SH should be bashed over expressing his desire to play more.

My complaint isn't over his lack of hitting. Hatty has been a fine player in the Reds organization for the last few years. But the time has come, and Hatty realized that last year, for a new, younger, better player to take his spot. Hatty knew from the day his option was picked up that his time at 1b would be limited by Votto this year. IMO there are ways Hatty could have gone about trying to learn how to become a better pinch hitter. I want a player who wants to play and play more, but I also want a player who understands and accepts the roll he is given.

IMO that the Reds would have been better off if Hatty went to Baker and said that he realizes that Votto is going to be the starter and he wanted every opportunity to learn to pinch hit during spring training. But I don't like when it is said that pinch hitting isn't conducive to Hatty's hitting style.

OldXOhio
05-01-2008, 05:52 PM
IMO that the Reds would have been better off if Hatty went to Baker and said that he realizes that Votto is going to be the starter and he wanted every opportunity to learn to pinch hit during spring training. But I don't like when it is said that pinch hitting isn't conducive to Hatty's hitting style.


I don't think it's realistic whatsoever to expect a veteran major leaguer coming off a season like Hatte had in 2007 to say "Hey Coach, I'm really anxious to learn the fine art of role playing, bench sitting and pinch hitting". The blame here goes on WK for bringing him back in the first place. Someone offers you $1.85M at age 38 to come back to an organization/city you like, what would you do? Whether or not SH was under some preconceived notion about his playing time is beyond me. I don't think it was unfair of him to expect at least 250 AB this seaon though.

And frankly, I don't see how pinch hitting is conducive to anyone's style of hitting. Hatteburg is like most every other player in the game - he needs regular at bats to find his groove.

mth123
05-01-2008, 09:09 PM
And frankly, I don't see how pinch hitting is conducive to anyone's style of hitting. Hatteburg is like most every other player in the game - he needs regular at bats to find his groove.

Exactly why keeping a guy who is so obviously redundant and absolutely useless for anything else was a bad idea. If he doesn't hit in a role he's never played, he adds nothing at all. The Reds do need a lefty bat for the bench, but it needs to be some one who can complement the starter he plays behind and hopefully adds other skills. I like Hatte, but having he and Votto is one too many LH 1B that can't (or shouldn't) play anywhere else.

KoryMac5
05-01-2008, 10:00 PM
I don't feel bad for Hatteberg at all, I actually fault him a little for his lack of hitting. Hatteberg is not a dumb guy and at the end of last season he knew what was coming. He knew his option would have been picked up and knew Votto was the 1b of the future. He knew his value to the team would be in a backup roll and that of a pinch hitter. Did he volunteer to go the the arizona winter leagues to learn how to pinch hit better? Did he go to Dusty in spring training and ask to be used as a pinch hitter more often? Did he to the required work in order become a more aggressive hitter?
I understand that he doens't want to be a pinch hitter. I understand that he wants to play every day. But I also understand that he knew what situation he was getting himself into. If he didn't want to play the roll of backup/pinch hitter then he could have retired.

I have seen some outlandish posts in my time but this one ranks right up there. How many hitters in the MLB go the AFL to work on their pinch hitting, ZERO. How many hitters go up to the manager and ask to primarily pinch hit, ZERO. No player would do these things as it would be career suicide, every player still has a desire to continue playing even if they have been replaced by a younger model. Hatte still holds some value and will likely be dealt by the break in a similiar deal that netted us Maloney. I haven't heard him complain about it and if you read the article, it is Fay suggesting that he isn't happy. I think too many people bought into what Fay was trying to sell here.

KoryMac5
05-01-2008, 10:01 PM
Exactly why keeping a guy who is so obviously redundant and absolutely useless for anything else was a bad idea. If he doesn't hit in a role he's never played, he adds nothing at all. The Reds do need a lefty bat for the bench, but it needs to be some one who can complement the starter he plays behind and hopefully adds other skills. I like Hatte, but having he and Votto is one too many LH 1B that can't (or shouldn't) play anywhere else.

That is the head scratcher here, Why excercise Hatte's option and let Cantu go? Still can't figure that one out.

mth123
05-01-2008, 10:15 PM
That is the head scratcher here, Why excercise Hatte's option and let Cantu go? Still can't figure that one out.

Exercising the option was OK, but holding on to him all winter was the bad idea. I admit I was in favor of the option because it was a value that could have been marketed, but it wasn't.

KronoRed
05-01-2008, 10:23 PM
That is the head scratcher here, Why excercise Hatte's option and let Cantu go? Still can't figure that one out.

Cantu is awful vs left handers so it came down to Cantu vs Hatte, and they wisely took Hatte.

blumj
05-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Exercising the option was OK, but holding on to him all winter was the bad idea. I admit I was in favor of the option because it was a value that could have been marketed, but it wasn't.
I don't know what market there was. Similar players were available for less salary and nothing in trade.

KoryMac5
05-01-2008, 11:14 PM
Cantu is at .296 this season vs. LH, .263 career. Hatte is batting .236 in his career against LH.

This was Krivsky's biggest drawback as a GM in my opinion. A roster full of players and pitchers who do similiar things.

mth123
05-02-2008, 04:13 AM
I don't know what market there was. Similar players were available for less salary and nothing in trade.

You're right. Guys like Casey, Mentkeiwiecz, Dan Johnson, etc were on the market as well.

camisadelgolf
05-02-2008, 04:38 AM
Am I reading this correctly? Did a professional athlete really just use the word 'conducive' correctly?

KronoRed
05-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Cantu is at .296 this season vs. LH, .263 career. Hatte is batting .236 in his career against LH.

This was Krivsky's biggest drawback as a GM in my opinion. A roster full of players and pitchers who do similiar things.

Cantu's numbers this year shouldn't enter into the conversation because the Reds obviously didn't have them to review yet :D

Anywan Cantu and Hat were both going to be bad vs lefties, the Reds choose the one who was going to be better vs righties, of course they should have chosen neither considering Votto is a lefty.