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jojo
04-28-2008, 11:34 AM
It's April 28th and the Reds find themselves 5.5 games back heading into St Louis and the end of a very forgettable month. Perhaps a silver lining for some is that, still, they're only 4 under .500.

Despite getting out of the gates nicely, I don't think the Cardinals have staying power concerning the division race. If the Cards can start well but probably not be a factor, surely that gives us hope that the Reds poor start doesn't mean they can't be a factor.

That said, looking at the standings, there are some hard questions to face. Is it reasonable to expect the Reds to be 6 games better than Chicago the rest of the way (the season began with me thinking the Cubs were something like 9 games better talent wise)?

If the Cubs are to falter, is it reasonable to expect the Reds to be 5 games better than the Brewers for the rest of the season?

Anything can happen but in a season which began with the general feeling that everything has to go right for the Reds to be playing meaningful baseball in September, they've dug themselves a substantial hole that perhaps seems smaller than it really is if looking at their month from the perspective that they're only 4 games under .500.

The Reds have a tremendous amount of work to do and IMHO, some significant personnel changes need to made in order to give them a chance (free Bruce for starters).

April may be "early" but the Reds season is already in critical condition.


Thoughts, comments, debate?????

RedsManRick
04-28-2008, 11:53 AM
I think it's important to realize that if the Cubs stay relatively healthy, there's virtually no reasonable argument that sees them losing the division. As you point out, should they falter for some reason, it's the Brewers position to take the title. The Reds simply are not going to play .580 ball for the remainder of the season.

If they want to truly want compete this year, the Reds need to up their ceiling, not protect their floor. To that end, I think the prudent course of action is to give up the idea of getting marginal productivity gains from veterans (as compared to the youth who might otherwise take their spots). A comparatively certain 78-80 wins simply doesn't accomplish anything. On balance, this simply isn't a team, as constructed and given events to date, with 88+ wins in them this year.

From a "competing in 08 perspective", there is really no case for giving at bats to Patterson or Freel that might go to Bruce; There's no case for giving innings to Fogg or Mercker that might go Bailey or Bray. It may be counter-intuitive for some, but the quickest path to the playoffs is likely in part through the talents of those players not currently on the 25 man roster and those people on the roster who may be losing some opportunities to others.

The thing about youth movements is that they tend to start off as bad as they're going to get and improve from there. Sure, you are likely to take some lumps at first. But at what cost? Versus what alternative? So everything goes wrong and you win 74 games instead of 80... that's not a meaningful difference. And the under appreciated possibility is that they'll hit the ground running and be better than the supposedly sure-thing veterans.

It takes a confident management group to accept that, in this situation, the uncertainty of youth is a better gamble than the supposed stability of "proven", yet fading veterans. A greater reliance on young, ready, but unproven talent in 2008 is better for the future, and quite possibly better for the present. If we do lose in 2008, it better darn well be in the name of being better prepared to win in 2009.

RFS62
04-28-2008, 11:56 AM
But... but... but......

I thought we were going to "win now". I thought "the losing stops now"

Jocketty is going to make it so...... right?

bucksfan2
04-28-2008, 11:59 AM
Interesting question. I was up in Columbus this weekend and The Dispatch had a pretty interesting write up on the Reds. It was saying that the Reds offense is ripe to break out. It was based upon their BB/K rate and the number of well hit balls that were hit right at players (granted this is a tough one to measure). They also brought up that Dunn was struggling yet he had more walks than strike outs. I think what you have to look at is this offense has been horrid this season. Harang is 1-3 with a sub 3 ERA and I would really look for that record to improve. Their two big bats seem like they are still sleeping. If Jr and Dunn can get going this team is strong enough to be in playoff contention.

BCubb2003
04-28-2008, 12:01 PM
I'm always a little skeptical of the idea that a team "has to go X and X the rest of the season" ... Sweep one series and the number changes. Get swept and the number changes. That said, it's tough to be in a hole at any time of the season. The first thing to do is to stop digging.

RFS62
04-28-2008, 12:02 PM
They were speculating on XM this morning that perhaps the Castellini jumped on the chance to fire Krivsky with the slow start, fearing that if the Reds turned it around, he'd be "unfireable".

The idea being that from the moment he was hired, it was a foregone conclusion that Jocketty would be moving into the job

Scrap Irony
04-28-2008, 12:02 PM
Thee wins in a row to end April and the Reds are only one game below .500 despite a truly horrid offense. Considering those struggling are veterans with proven track records of success and, IMO, the hand-wringing is premature.

Get back to me at the end of May, however. That's when the cheese gets binding.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 12:03 PM
Let's face it. Barring injuries, the Cubs will win the Central, so we are vying for a wild card spot with the likes of Philadelphia, Atlanta, LA, and the rest of the Central Division. I think this year is a transition year to get the club in a position to contend. Of course, that's my thinking. We have three decent starters, one who could come around, and a mess. The offense is really sporadic and vulnerable to left handed pitching (unless the left hander is totally clueless like yesterday).

It's early, but I like the summit meeting today mainly because I hadn't heard of this being done in the past administration (though it may have). Maybe some ideas will be tossed around. I hope so. I don't think 11-15 is all that bad if the club continues to win. That remains to be seen, though.

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2008, 12:10 PM
Are the Cubs odds-on favorites to win the NL Central? Yup.

Would I bet a dime of my own money on any other team winning? Nope.

Having said that -- the great equalizer in all of baseball is good pitching. The Reds, for the first time in as long as I've been following them, have good starting pitching. If (and it's a big "if") Volquez, Cueto and Harang continue to pitch the way they have, and Arroyo reverts to 2007 form, it can be very good pitching. If (and, again, a big "if") Homer Bailey comes up in mid-June/July and provides better than replacement-level pitching from the #5 spot, it could be great starting pitching.

I know they'll never be the favorites this year -- but I like my odds a lot better if I'm chasing the lead horse with the best pitching in the division.

Just sayin'...

Always Red
04-28-2008, 12:12 PM
Thee wins in a row to end April and the Reds are only one game below .500 despite a truly horrid offense. Considering those struggling are veterans with proven track records of success and, IMO, the hand-wringing is premature.

Get back to me at the end of May, however. That's when the cheese gets binding.

Horrid? I'd say more disappointing than horrid.

As of today, the Reds are 7th (out of 16) in the NL in both runs scored and hitting. Above average.

As for pitching- 11th in ERA and 12th in total runs given up. Below average.

I think we still need to work on the pitching.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 12:12 PM
They were speculating on XM this morning that perhaps the Castellini jumped on the chance to fire Krivsky with the slow start, fearing that if the Reds turned it around, he'd be "unfireable".

The idea being that from the moment he was hired, it was a foregone conclusion that Jocketty would be moving into the job

I thought that anyway. From the time of The Trade, Castellini was looking for a way out. Then the 72-90 season and Jocketty was hired. At the time, I didn't think it was anything, but my money's on it was the plan from the begining.

Reds Nd2
04-28-2008, 12:15 PM
I know they'll never be the favorites this year -- but I like my odds a lot better if I'm chasing the lead horse with the best pitching in the division.

Just sayin'...

And the schedule looks to ease up a bit after June too. I still like their chances to make things interesting in the division this season.

RedsManRick
04-28-2008, 12:16 PM
The question which is important, and inferred by Jojo, is this:

Given your assessment of whether or not the Reds are in position to compete this year, what course of action do you take regarding roster composition and playing time distribution?

What I find interesting is that I think the course of action is the same regardless of which initial conclusion you reach.

Joseph
04-28-2008, 12:20 PM
Wheres John Belushi when you need him?

Over? Its not over til we say its over.

Well, ok that may be a little too Rosie Red, but I'm not conceding a title 25 games into a season, give or take.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 12:28 PM
The Reds are done this season. They may get up over .500, but they aren't winning any division. Too many teams to jump over, and the Reds don't have the personnel right now to leap that many teams. Two slots in the rotation are total garbage right now, and Bailey would likely only add to the problem, not help it. Regardless, two slots in the rotation are going to regularly need the bullpen to bail them out very, very early in the game.
And the bullpen doesn't have that second or third killer arm to help keep opponents from scoring in both the 8th and 9th inning.

The offense should get going, though. I've revised my thinking on that component.

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2008, 12:38 PM
The season is far from over. I'm not ready to hand the NL Central to the Cubs already. It's the freaking Cubs! To steal a quote from Marty, they'll find a way to screw it up. They just lost two of three at Washington. The Cubs are 6-0 against the Pirates. It's nice that they're beating the teams they should (I wish the Reds could) but let's see how where they're at after May. Ted Lilly has been a disappointment so far with a 6.46 ERA in six starts. Rich Hill is having serious control issues. Ryan Dempster won't continue pitching like he is now IMO. Marquis is terrible. They do have a dangerous offense though.

If the Reds offense is beginning to wake up then I think this team can go on a nice hot streak and have a 15 or 16 win month of May. Cueto, Harang, and Volquez have been spectacular. If Arroyo reverts back to 2006-2007 form then the Reds have one of the best rotations in the NL. Not to mention the possible boost they could get out of the fifth spot in the rotation if Homer Bailey continues to pitch well and is called up. The bullpen could also receive an upgrade if/when Bill Bray and Josh Roenicke are called up.

But even if the Reds were to fall out of the race, this is still going to be a fun season IMO. It's going to be a blast following the development of Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, and Homer Bailey in the starting rotation. Daryl Thompson may also enter the mix at some point. On the offensive side we'll get to watch Jay Bruce make his anticipated debut, and continue to follow the development of Joey Votto and Edwin Encarnacion. It's going to be a fun season no matter what for me.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 12:58 PM
I don't know why, but I'm not sold on the Cubs either. Like OBM, I think their rotation has some serious question marks. Lily has been disappointing, Hill I think had a career year last year, Dempster is bound to regress and Marquis is well, Marquis. Zambrano has looked good thus far, but the guy is a head case. I think Chicago's bullpen has problems too. Their offense has been lights out, though. No doubt about that.

It is going to be challenging for the Reds to have a shot at the division this year. What can they do to compete? Change around the bench for starters. Add some more pitching. Is it impossible? No, but the Reds are going to need some luck and more than anything, they're going to need to start winning more games than they are losing.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 01:23 PM
I don't know why, but I'm not sold on the Cubs either. Like OBM, I think their rotation has some serious question marks. Lily has been disappointing, Hill I think had a career year last year, Dempster is bound to regress and Marquis is well, Marquis. Zambrano has looked good thus far, but the guy is a head case. I think Chicago's bullpen has problems too. Their offense has been lights out, though. No doubt about that.

It is going to be challenging for the Reds to have a shot at the division this year. What can they do to compete? Change around the bench for starters. Add some more pitching. Is it impossible? No, but the Reds are going to need some luck and more than anything, they're going to need to start winning more games than they are losing.

While the Cubs have some less than optimal arms in the rotation, they also don't have two slots that are totally postnuclear like the Reds do.

pedro
04-28-2008, 01:26 PM
While the Cubs have some less than optimal arms in the rotation, they also don't have two slots that are totally postnuclear like the Reds do.

Give it some time. Marquis and Dempster will explode soon enough.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Give it some time. Marquis and Dempster will explode soon enough.

Dempster maybe--probably. But why Marquis? He's not great, but he's a ton better than Arroyo or whatever revolving-door garbage the Reds have in the 5th slot. There's a prayer that Belisle might survive, but the chances aren't great.

pedro
04-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Dempster maybe--probably. But why Marquis? He's not great, but he's a ton better than Arroyo or whatever revolving-door garbage the Reds have in the 5th slot. There's a prayer that Belisle might survive, but the chances aren't great.

Marquis is off to a good start and granted Arroyo has looked bad so far but Marquis' track record doesn't suggest that he's going to continue to pitch at this level.

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2008, 01:52 PM
Marquis allows over a hit per inning, is homerun prone, and has horrible K/BB rates. I just don't view him as a very good pitcher.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 01:54 PM
Marquis allows over a hit per inning, is homerun prone, and has horrible K/BB rates. I just don't view him as a very good pitcher.

He's not a good pitcher, but I don't see why he can't produce last year's numbers this year.

Again, it's about keeping your results from going postnuclear.

The trouble the Reds get themselves in over and over is letting a guy like Arroyo (Milton, etc.) get massive numbers of starts to "get untracked." It's like a turtle leaving its head out when the cat's around.

pedro
04-28-2008, 01:57 PM
He's not a good pitcher, but I don't see why he can't produce last year's numbers this year.

Again, it's about keeping your results from going postnuclear.

Unless Arroyo is hurt I think he'll end up with better numbers than Marquis. Historically he's been the better pitcher.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 02:03 PM
Unless Arroyo is hurt I think he'll end up with better numbers than Marquis. Historically he's been the better pitcher.

What Arroyo is doing now (meaning in terms of performance) will never get him back to respectability--everything is high, loping, and well below his career radar-gun readings. Better pray he IS hurt.

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2008, 02:06 PM
The trouble the Reds get themselves in over and over is letting a guy like Arroyo (Milton, etc.) get massive numbers of starts to "get untracked." It's like a turtle leaving its head out when the cat's around.

Apples and Oranges.

If Arroyo isn't hurt, there's no evidence to suggest that he cannot replicate his '07 numbers. It's a world of difference between that and the suck that was Eric Milton.

The Cubs and the Cardinals both have pitching that is every bit as suspect as the Reds. I'll take my chances that Arroyo regains '07 form before I bet a dime on Jason Marquis being anything other than a thoroughly mediocre pitcher.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 02:07 PM
The Cubs and the Cardinals both have pitching that is every bit as suspect as the Reds.

Cardinals, yes. Cubs, I just can't cotton to that.

pedro
04-28-2008, 02:08 PM
What Arroyo is doing now (meaning in terms of performance) will never get him back to respectability--everything is high, loping, and well below his career radar-gun readings. Better pray he IS hurt.

I agree he's looked horrible.

RedlegJake
04-28-2008, 02:09 PM
The pitching is only going to get better...next year. Cueto is still learning and can't be counted on to work miracles just yet. That is NOT a rag on Cueto it's just reality for a 22 y/o kid. Volquez, otoh, is ready to be a stopper and with Harang its as good a 1-2 punch as the NL has. Arroyo is really the key right now. If he continues to fail the rotation is going to be in trouble. The bottom 4 are killing this staff. Arroyo-Belisle-Fogg and Coffey have somewhere around 65 IP and they've allowed about 61 runs. That's off the top of my head so the number may be off 1 or 2 but its very close to that. The rest of the staff is around 3 runs a game. That "final four" is so bad that it will just kill the Reds until its solved. Plus it puts a huge burden on a bullpen. No matter how good a pen is if they have to go from the 4th or 5th on regularly you're in big trouble as they get burned up.

I'd love Bruce to come up and take over CF, and it would be great if WJ can find a RH bat but he has to solve the 4-5 starter spots or the Reds go nowhere.

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2008, 02:13 PM
Cardinals, yes. Cubs, I just can't cotton to that.

2 below average starting pitchers and a closer with his shoulder hanging together by a few threads and a couple prayers.

I'm very "eh" on the Cubs pitching. Total package (offense, defense, pitching), they're ahead of the Reds...but pitching alone? I'm pretty confident the numbers won't be as far away as some would think.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 02:20 PM
While the Cubs have some less than optimal arms in the rotation, they also don't have two slots that are totally postnuclear like the Reds do.

Oh, I don't disagree with that as of right now, the Cubs have the better backend of the rotation. However, I'd take the Reds front 3 (Harang, Cueto and Volquez) over the Cubs front 3 (Zambrano, Lily and Hill).

I do think Arroyo is hurt as well, and if he bombs tonight, I imagine he'll be headed to the DL. He should've really been skipped or headed to the DL after the last start, but I'm not calling the shots.

If the Reds would swap Coffey with Bray, I'd also take the Reds bullpen over the Cubs too. Marmol is amazing and Wood has been pretty good, but outside of those 2, question marks all over the place. Howry has been horrible.

CaiGuy
04-28-2008, 02:26 PM
What Arroyo is doing now (meaning in terms of performance) will never get him back to respectability--everything is high, loping, and well below his career radar-gun readings. Better pray he IS hurt.

Watch Tedd Lilly pitch for an inning or two. You could replace Arroyo with Lilly in your post and it would be completely true.

Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Belisle
Zambrano, Hill, Marquis, Lilly, Dempster

The four and five spots are basically a wash. You could possibly say the same thing about Harang vs. Zambrano.

Would you prefer Volquez/Cueto or Hill/Marquis?

I actually like the Reds rotation better.

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Watch Tedd Lilly pitch for an inning or two. You could replace Arroyo with Lilly in your post and it would be completely true.

Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Belisle
Zambrano, Hill, Marquis, Lilly, Dempster

The four and five spots are basically a wash. You could possibly say the same thing about Harang vs. Zambrano.

Would you prefer Volquez/Cueto or Hill/Marquis?

I acually like the Reds rotation better.

Lilly's coming around. Arroyo appears to only be getting worse.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2008, 05:31 PM
The Reds are done this season. They may get up over .500, but they aren't winning any division. Too many teams to jump over, and the Reds don't have the personnel right now to leap that many teams. Two slots in the rotation are total garbage right now, and Bailey would likely only add to the problem, not help it. Regardless, two slots in the rotation are going to regularly need the bullpen to bail them out very, very early in the game.
And the bullpen doesn't have that second or third killer arm to help keep opponents from scoring in both the 8th and 9th inning.

The offense should get going, though. I've revised my thinking on that component.

The Reds were DOA coming North out of ST.

IIRC, only one publication had the Reds projected above .500 coming into Opening Day.

The pitching remains to be a problem, and with the offense off to a slow start, it should come as no surprise that we're multiple games out of 1st place less than 25 games into the season.

We have a lot of work to do to get back to "winning", which by this organization's definition should be 82 wins.

RedlegJake
04-28-2008, 05:53 PM
The Reds were DOA coming North out of ST. Maybe, but not for the reasons most would have thought. Arroyo and Belisle/Fogg have sucked instead of the rookies struggling. The big guns in the middle of the offense went stone cold early.


IIRC, only one publication had the Reds projected above .500 coming into Opening Day. So what? One thing I've learned is that the "publications" are practically baseball illiterate. Full of sound bites and no significance. I'm amazed that men and women can watch games every day from ST to the WS, talk to players daily, practically live in the locker room and next to the field, have sources and friends within the game's inner structure and still be no better judges of players and teams than the reasonably informed fan. It might surprise you but I seriously mean it when I say I place as much or more stock in YOUR opinion, Highlifeman, or in Steel's or JaxRed's or most RedZoners that post regularly than just about any reporter out there.


The pitching remains to be a problem, and with the offense off to a slow start, it should come as no surprise that we're multiple games out of 1st place less than 25 games into the season.

The pitching is to me, an odd type of year, the talent for the future is there but some of it is still on the farm, and there still remains 2 black holes at the end of the rotation, and by extension a bullpen that will quickly be overworked.


We have a lot of work to do to get back to "winning", which by this organization's definition should be 82 wins.

I really think the Reds are just a couple moves away, and by move I mean significant moves, not role player twaddling. Those moves will involve Dunn and Junior one way or the other.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2008, 07:16 PM
Maybe, but not for the reasons most would have thought. Arroyo and Belisle/Fogg have sucked instead of the rookies struggling. The big guns in the middle of the offense went stone cold early.

So what? One thing I've learned is that the "publications" are practically baseball illiterate. Full of sound bites and no significance. I'm amazed that men and women can watch games every day from ST to the WS, talk to players daily, practically live in the locker room and next to the field, have sources and friends within the game's inner structure and still be no better judges of players and teams than the reasonably informed fan. It might surprise you but I seriously mean it when I say I place as much or more stock in YOUR opinion, Highlifeman, or in Steel's or JaxRed's or most RedZoners that post regularly than just about any reporter out there.



The pitching is to me, an odd type of year, the talent for the future is there but some of it is still on the farm, and there still remains 2 black holes at the end of the rotation, and by extension a bullpen that will quickly be overworked.



I really think the Reds are just a couple moves away, and by move I mean significant moves, not role player twaddling. Those moves will involve Dunn and Junior one way or the other.


First off, lemme say, good stuff.

Now, in reverse order....

I have a feeling that one of, if not both of, Dunn and Griffey will be gone during 2008. From an age standpoint, it would make sense that the goner is Griffey. From a productivity standpoint, it would also make sense that the goner is Griffey. To complete the hat-trick, from a financial standpoint (assuming we're on the hook for Griffey's 2009 option, and Dunn is not on the books in 2009), it also makes sense that Griffey is the goner.

Unfortunately, Griffey's greatest value is to become a DH in the AL, while Dunn's greatest value is to remain a Red. I'm not sure what we could realistically expect to receive from an AL team for Griffey's services. I'm even less certain what we could realistically expect to receive from any team for Dunn's services. From the Reds' standpoint, it's a must that we receive more in a Dunn trade, than in a Griffey trade, due to their respective values to the Reds. The scenarios play out differently, depending on which piece is moved.

As for the rotation.... Assuming we go into 2009 with Harang/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey/?, that means we have 1 spot to fill with either Arroyo or Belisle, or a new arm to be acquired or developed. For 2009, I like the outlook of our rotation. For the rest of 2008, I'd hope that we audition to fill the voids that are currently being occupied by Arroyo and Belisle.

IIRC, even RedsZone as a whole was down on the Reds' chances for 2008. Part of it is realism, part of it is pessimism concerning the Reds' personnel coming into Opening Day. While RedsZone has passionate Reds fans and we keep our finger on the pulse as much, if not more so than beat writers, we can also not see the forest through the trees (or something like that). I'd say RedsZone as a whole focuses far too much on the micro-perspective, rather than the macro-perspective of the Reds. We scrutinize every move unfortunately with a micro take, rather than the macro take. "The Trade" is the best example of said mindset.

As for the kids, Cueto and Volquez have performed better than most have probably anticipated, while Arroyo, Fogg and Belisle have laid huge eggs thus far. The offense has been led by unknowns to our organization (Patterson and Bako), while we're still waiting for our cast of usual suspects (Dunn, Phillips, Griffey) to start doing their thing.

I know it's a long season, but rather have the Reds continue to break our collective hearts, don't fall for the "we could win the NL Central" crazy talk for 2008. Get excited about 2009, and be sincere with that sentiment.

Spitball
04-28-2008, 10:56 PM
They were speculating on XM this morning that perhaps the Castellini jumped on the chance to fire Krivsky with the slow start, fearing that if the Reds turned it around, he'd be "unfireable".

The idea being that from the moment he was hired, it was a foregone conclusion that Jocketty would be moving into the job

Pretty much the way I see it.

RFS62
04-28-2008, 11:16 PM
Pretty much the way I see it.

Me too. Especially with the lame excuse of the record being the reason.

Spitball
04-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Me too. Especially with the lame excuse of the record being the reason.

Just like Tony Perez with Davy Johnson in the wings. Perez was, I believe, 20-24 when he was fired. In addition to Johnson, Bowden had other potential replacements on payroll, including Bobby Valentine.

RFS62
04-29-2008, 08:19 AM
Just like Tony Perez with Davy Johnson in the wings. Perez was, I believe, 20-24 when he was fired. In addition to Johnson, Bowden had other potential replacements on payroll, including Bobby Valentine.



Absolutely.

membengal
04-29-2008, 08:21 AM
They're good again! On to .500 or maybe even the World Series!

(If they lose tomorrow):

They're bad again! They'll be lucky to win 70 games, and could lose as many as 125!

KronoRed
04-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Me too. Especially with the lame excuse of the record being the reason.

Yep, and anyone with half a brain can see the real reason was he wanted to get his friend in charge, so why did he do it this way? just fire Krivsky when Walt became available and we have the GM who was going to be running things anyway in charge a lot earlier.

Boo on Bob.

Screwball
04-29-2008, 03:13 PM
Yep, and anyone with half a brain can see the real reason was he wanted to get his friend in charge, so why did he do it this way? just fire Krivsky when Walt became available and we have the GM who was going to be running things anyway in charge a lot earlier.

Boo on Bob.

Yeah, that's the way I would've liked it to play out as well. But from what I've read Jocketty wasn't ready to resume a GM role immediately after his stint in St. Louis ended. In fact, he didn't even follow any baseball transactions that had taken place for a month or two afterwards. My speculation is that Bob wanted him on board so that the instant he could coax Jocketty into being the GM, he'd fire Krivsky whether he had a good reason to or not.

Hence, "we're sick of losing" at 9-12.

bucksfan2
04-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Yeah, that's the way I would've liked it to play out as well. But from what I've read Jocketty wasn't ready to resume a GM role immediately after his stint in St. Louis ended. In fact, he didn't even follow any baseball transactions that had taken place for a month or two afterwards. My speculation is that Bob wanted him on board so that the instant he could coax Jocketty into being the GM, he'd fire Krivsky whether he had a good reason to or not.

Hence, "we're sick of losing" at 9-12.

Is Jocketty ready to resume GM duties now? He was basically ousted as StL's GM and now he is right back in the fire less than 30 games into this current season. Was this a long enough time for Jocketty to reflect on his beliefs and the current baseball structure. It seems as if GM's are constantly reinventing themselves to stay atop the GM game.

Screwball
04-29-2008, 03:44 PM
Is Jocketty ready to resume GM duties now?

That's the million dollar question. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

M2
04-29-2008, 05:51 PM
Is Jocketty ready to resume GM duties now?

You think he needs to be extended GM spring training making deals that don't count for a few extra weeks?